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10 is different though, we do need cover. Looping back to the original argument, would you then take Patterson over Hook/Cipriani/Flood etc?
No! Hook every time for me. Would probably have him ahead of Cipriani (though more picture of Kelly B in the papers would be nice :-)). Close call on Flood
I am pretty sure the SH teams don't give a monkeys about the 6N.
Mainly due to the fact that on most occasions they beat the teams involved in it and only 1 ever makes a decent showing at the WC which is what really counts. Oh, and Italy ran Wales very very close on their last meeting.
Any SH's care to comment?
Backhander if you are going to continue to fish please bear in mind that England have been manshamed by Southern Hemisphere teams on a regular basis since 03 with the lucky exception of scraping past the Aussies in Merseille in 07. France have also played in 2 World Cup finals.
DOB has proved himself able against the best in the world on lots of occasions, starting with the last Lions tour to Australia, who were at the time the best team in the world. Last few seasons havent been too hot and I'd question if he's better than Shanklin now, but to say he's never done it at the top level is plain stupid. Shane has also scored tries and torn defences apart against all the top teams and is proven world class winger. To suggest that just because these players havent won world cups or beaten the top sides IN A TEAM SPORT means they are not world class is nothing more than drivel.
My mistake on the french.
Apologies, but there seem to be a lot of celts who will hear nothing bad said of any player of their team while slating all english players.
Still, 2nd in the 6N isn't too bad really (even though it's not the highest level). The French didn't do too badly either.
I wouldn't describe beating the aussies conceding no points is a scrape.
I am pretty sure the SH teams don't give a monkeys about the 6N.
Maybe they are playing up to the British audience but pretty much every SH pundit has said the SH would love to have a 6N's standard of tournament
Think they'd like a swap?
They can have the 6N and we'll divvy up WC wins between us.
I blame Sky TV. The hype they give the premiership just gets everybody else's backs up.
England's biggest problem is the criticism they give their own players, leading to ridiculous levels of turnover in players and coaches.
So far I've seen "experts" pick holes in the games of; Wilkinson, Worseley, Sheridan and Back(FFS, he was part of the holy trinity).
No player is perfect and there are faults with everybodies (incl S Williams) game.
BackHander, explain to me how BOD (who incidently as a Henson lover I cannot stand) has not proven himself at the highest level. If you say these things you need to back them up.
Worsley is shit, Sheridan is good but over rated, Back and Wilkinson were class but never the best in the world close, but not the best, both played with some truely world class players (Hill, Johnson, Dilly Dally etc)
Hook hasn't come on as well as I thought he would, he was brilliant at Neath, his first games for the Ospreys were superb but he seems to have stagnated a bit. I really thought he was going to be a Carter but just hasn't come on. There is still time but I think he has reached his limit.
I think Argentina are over rated, the World Cup performance was effective but very limited.
We do struggle against Italy but Englands performance was nothing to write home about. We played a second 15 which only proved one thing we dont have the strenght in depth that the Weastern Mail reckons.
Why is Shanklin so underated?????
No mate, I've invited you to enlighten me and been offered 3 lions games.
BODs accolades read 6N, 6N, 6N.
Worseley shit? Made Powell look like an amateur recently.
So anagallis, as a Henson lover does that mean your a fat singer that sells crisps?
Sorry had to be done 🙂
But I agree with you that BOD has proved himself, the very fact that Umaga spear tackled him to take him out of the tour last time is proof that he was regarded as the best player in the world at that time, and that was a shameful tackle. I admit his form dipped slightly but this 6N he was awesome. This Lions will be his swan song I think, he is getting on a bit now and has lost that half a yard of pace.
Sheridan does not have enough tricks in his locker, when he first came on to the scene he demolished other players in the tight and loose. He now has to devote much more time to the scrum as people have learned to play him. I think prop/lock is one of the few areas we are fairly well off.(Although I feel Ford would be a better bet than Mears)
I admit I'm being petty as I think BOD is a fantastic player, the lines he runs are genius but (and it's no fault of his) he's not had the opportunity to really shine on the world stage due to a lack of success from the irish team (again 6N aside). I feel a bit sorry for Henson, he's suffering form JW syndrome a bit and the injuries seem to be getting him down. Maybe it's time for a change (premiership please?!?!?!).
A A - Worseley had a very good even great 6N's. No?
I used to train with Sheridan and frankly he is wasted. His scrummaging is at best ok. His real asset was always the close in pick and drive. Watching big, stong players hanging off him like 9 stone weaklings was always an impressive sight. You rarely see that in his game today 😥
Stronger guy you will not meet (well unless you count those 'roid freak shows!). Truley gobsmacking what he does in the gym. Just does not fully translate onto the pitch
Would not have taken him personally.
Worsley is great at tackling but hasn't got an attacking game. Not as good as Nugget but I am biased.
I never though dillydayglo was world class, big lump strong but not world class. His ego and publicity seeking are world class.
Wors isn't that bad going forward, no vision, no pass but a strong powerful player, which I have a feeling is what we're going to need especially against the likes of Burger.
Sheridan made more yards that any other loosehead in the 6N. He doesn't see enough crash ball. Dally was quite clearly the 8 of his era, but I wish Parise was english he's as good as any including Collins.
Ok guys - stop bickering. There will always be differences of opinion about players partly based on the playing style you prefer. For example I would much rather play Dickinson the Scots prop than Sheridan simply because he is faster over the ground. Jason White is a hero of mine.
However we should be getting behind this lions team. I think its a great selection. Not bloated with too many players, not full of over the hill, overrated or unfit players, full of genuinely exciting and classy players and with the potential to both match up to SA in the "beast" stakes and run rings round them with pace and guile.
We have potential match winners all over the place - a couple of ginger monsters ( M Williams & POC ) who will disrupt and steal SA ball, players with the beast in them who will never take a backwards step and will take on SA in the tight, and genuine pace (Moyne) mixed with a bit of magic (BOD S Williams)in the backs to score tries.
We can all bitch about our favourites not getting in but in our hearts we know many of these calls were marginal. Geech has made it clear at least some of the selections were made on the basis of morale, cohesion and team unity when making these 50 / 50 picks. Anyway BOD [i][b] is[/i][/b] God!
The Lions have the players and management that gives them the potential to gel into a truly great team and I for one and really looking forward to it.
Come on the Lions!
Sheridan made more yards that any other loosehead in the 6N
Hmmm not sure about that. Dickinson from Scotland made a lot of yards. Though granted not the close in 'hard yards' and he can't scrummage his way out of a wet paper back
Point about Sheridan is that it should not even be up for debate. He is awesome at that if he is used correctly. I just don't think he is.
BTW - TJ, fundamentally I agree 🙂
Fair enough TJ,
I do like a healthy debate, and Rugby is close to my heart.
For what it's worth, I'm 1/2 Irish (dad) 1/2 eng (obviously), I work in Cardiff and go to wales pretty much every weekend riding!
I'd like another flyhalf, what with Burger on the prowl.
The test 15 is going to be the interesting bit, you thought people are squabbling now!
So what we have here is the usual Home Nations Rugby banter:
player x is great but player y is rubbish,
interspersed with the usual SH balderdash
(I'm a Kiwi and it's a world cup and I can't breath...I must be choking)
and topped off with a call to drink up and be friends 😉
Go Lions - shame I never see the matches as I won't pay for Sky and in the household negotiations for time any pub Rugby watching would be taken directly from my MTBing budget...
There are 6 games before the first test so I think everyone will get a run out to settle down into the tour, those that perform will get picked. There will be a few injuries and subsequent call ups, I'm looking forward to seeing two huge packs going head to head and seeing some real fast open back play.
Hopefully it will all live up to expectation, and the best thing... the time difference won't get us up at silly o'clock to watch the games!
Right to get in early - WHY ISN'T HENSON IN THE TEST 15. DISGUSTING!!
Round of applause for TJ btw. (Did I read in your post 'Now then boys, we've all 'ad a few drinks, no need for this'?)
No mate, I've invited you to enlighten me and been offered 3 lions games.
As I've said BOD has played well against all the teams in the world, he was one of the stand out players in the last Lions tour to Australia when Australia were the best team in the world... I've said this a number of times, explain to me what else he could do?
Worseley had a very good even great 6N's. No?
No he's rubbish, does nothing as a 7 and is an average international 6 at best. He's what 30 + and has never been close to being Lions quality before.
I never though dillydayglo was world class
I always thought Quinnel was better, but I was trying not to look too anti english!!!
I wonder what type of thuggery the Provincial teams will indulge in. There was some pretty awful stuff in Living with the Lions the last time they were in S.A.
I wonder if a Mcrae O Gara, BOD Umaga Mealamu controversey will happen.
Love rugby banter always done with a smile and a wink.
No he's rubbish, does nothing as a 7 and is an average international 6 at best. He's what 30 + and has never been close to being Lions quality before.
Yes but the Lions is about the tour, not about preparing for the future, not about past performance. If you'er just miffed he humped the Welsh backrow in Cardiff fair enough. Just say it 🙂
Quinnel was world class
McRae - O'Gara, christ I forgot about that, that was one hell of a pummeling that he took, his face was huge the next day.
Does anyone remember what happened to McRae after that?
Yes but the Lions is about the tour, not about preparing for the future, not about past performance. If you'er just miffed he humped the Welsh backrow in Cardiff fair enough
Your deluded!! He tackled well but was destroyed at the breakdown which was the reason england gave away so many pens and got the yellow cards.
I think we'll be happy to have the grizzled 30 somethings when the pups have been hammered mate. Wors should not play at 7 though, you're right about that. I'm chuffed for the likes of Shaw and Quinlan, a lions tour is a swansong and a half!
Has anybody found a fantasy lions league? If so, anyone fancy it? Team name same as user name? STW league?
If you think that any part of wors was destroyed in that game, you're deluded. Didn't he get man of match for that one?
Fantasy Lions tour would be pretty good anyone know of a good site for it?
Backhander - he played one Welsh player out of the game. However he wasn't even the top tackler in that game nor did he do anything except mark one man out of the game. Very one dimensional play.
Worsely is another over rated player IMO - he simply is too slow for the modern game
TJ,
I think that he did exactly what he was told to do.
Oh, and it looks like he did win the man of the match, but what do they know.
You are right in that backhander - but that does not make him a great player. Great players do more.
He earned universal acclaim for that performance. Oh, and he put 2 players out of the game, Roberts and Powell. One of the welsh pundits joked that if Roberts opened his kit bag, Worseley would probably pop out!
Any joy on the fantasy lions yet anyone, I can't find anything.
No one is arguing that that was a not great performance and a great tactical move. the argument is that he is one dimensional as a player and in doing what he did it left gaps elsewhere
Sorry TJ, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
I think he does a particular and important job very well, that may make him one dimensional in some peoples eyes, I just think (as a back rower) that he's a good weapon to have. Simple no-nonsense violence has its place.
Your deluded!!
How? As a neutral watching that game (actually shouting more for Wales) I was impressed by a player who I have not been a big fan of in the past. He had a great game
He did hump the Welsh backrow that day! 🙂
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o'driscoll done nothing against the best[/url]
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has shane[/url]
Does anyone remember what happened to McRae after that?
Came to play in England and was assualted by Martin Johnson in an even more disgraceful manner!!
No one is arguing that that was a not great performance and a great tactical move
Good performance poor tactics which looked to limit losses. LOOK AGAIN AT THE PENALTIES england gave away as they effectively played with no 7. HAd he been playing 6 I would say it was a very good performance. For a 7 it was poor, but not his fault.
Yes yes good players, I take it they scored multiple tries in those games?
SW can run. OK we get it. Nearly as well as jason robinson.
<stands well back>
NOW THAT'S FISHING!
Robinson was IMO better, but he was played full-back too much. I do prefer watching the balletic grace of williams in favour of the explosive springness of Robinson but Robinson was propbably more effective.
Could you explain to me, how, other than winning a world cup (which isnt going to happen given there team mates , players can prove themselves at a higher level?
I take it they scored multiple tries in those games?
no but shane scored in both tests [url=
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Getting boring now, we've had that vid already.
OK he can run and side step. WE GET IT!