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But it seems to be destructive to all life and systems to support any that may remain.
Well without the small creatures the two legged ones will destroy themselves fighting over the leftover so the cycle begins.
kimbers
‘Facts’ you seem unable to counter with any of your own ?
But the links you previously posted to validate your opinion/views as facts were complete nonsense .. and if somebody posting such rubbish from the Brexit camp, I imagine you would dismiss it as nonsense too.
kimbers
SubscriberFunnily enough all the ones I know are scientists who specifically say Brexit was a reason they left
How many do you actually know? the devils in the detail ... for all we know you know 1 scientist who stated this reason to you ... and for all we know he may have just been saying that to you because he knows how fanatical you are about Brexit; kind of just saying it to avoid you going off on one!
kimbers
Subscriber
The ones that are staying are genuinely frustrated & worried about what Brexit means for the lives they’ve made here.
Is this something else you have made up?
To be honest Kimbers, you keep insisting on facts when somebody offers a different opinion to your own. But you present only totally unreliable studies or just things from imaginary scientists/friends/etc you claim to know as your own facts; you are a parody of the stereotypical Brexiter you hold in such disdain.
But the links you previously posted to validate your opinion/views as facts were complete nonsense
Tell us *why* it's nonsense, please.
This is why we are getting frustrated mooman - you are declaring it nonsense, without any justification. So your argument doesn't look good, you'll have to admit.
I'd love to be convinced that Brexit is a good idea, cos then I wouldn't be so depressed.
imaginary scientists/friends/etc you claim to know
Why are you accusing him of making things up? You know he works in medical research, right? Why would he come on and invent stuff? Do you really think that's what's happening here? We're just inventing things to try and make ourselves look big on the internet? I mean, I know that happens, but most of the people on here aren't that kind of forum member.
Brexiter with absolutely no upside to present gets upset when people present the blindingly obvious downsides.
I'll give an upside: the drops in GDP and the pound will reduce what people can spend on imported tat, fuel, and cars so the environment will benefit.
I'll give another. Increased tariffs will make trade more expensive, and we don't have the businesses and infrastructure in place to supply our own cheaper.
The modern world has evolved to rely on low-friction trade, and we're heading to very high friction trade so our businesses will suffer both in terms of operating costs and competitive advantage in foreign markets.
But it “engaged” with the “continental” countries all over the globe, because… empires.
Generally in a rather violent way with a relaxed approach to resource ownership which wouldnt be too welcome nowadays (or indeed at the time). I am not sure it really helps the case molgrips was trying to make though.
This whole “Britain historically isn’t a European country” meme can be debunked by anyone easily, it’s a dead end
That wasnt the argument being made so not sure of the relevance. Although the level Britain was a European country was, over the last few centuries, highly variable. The tories are living up to their history in terms of interaction.
That wasn't the argument being made
Handybar said this:
"Britain is not really a European country due to the reformation and empire"
So I think perhaps it has relevance.
But the links you previously posted to validate your opinion/views as facts
Please tell me which links...
But you present only totally unreliable studies
And again, please point these out to me.
or just things from imaginary scientists/friends/etc you claim to know as your own facts
Well I guess you'll just have to take my word for it
There's about 300 people in my institute, I'd say a good 20% from the eu. I've worked in science for 15+ years, I probably know 50+ EU scientists well enough to know why they might be leaving or staying here. Of those I can say for sure that 2 have returned to France, 2 to Germany, 1 to Holland , 2 to Portugal (actually 4 as both have Portuguese partners) 3 back to spain, 2 to Holland all of them said brexit was a factor in their leaving.
And the many more who are still here most have said they are worried about their future status here, especially ones with British girlfriends/boyfriends etc
Now theres always a lot of movement of scientists (we also have Chinese, Korean, American etc in our place) to & from home countries, it's a strength of the UK that we attract so many of the best. And the constant flow of knowledge & skills is essential to modern science.
Would all those who have left stayed with out Brexit ? Probably not but several said Brexit was the main reason they were leaving.
We have also seen a big drop in EU applicants for positions
But my anecdotes are just that, even as numbers of EU workers coming to the UK have fallen & we are already excluded from grant applications as they run from 2-5 years ahead of starting wirk- it takes time to build a grant proposal & generate preliminary data.
Every university I know is spending extra cash trying to plan for Brexit, the weak £ has taken a huge chunk out of our budget as the majority of our reagents & in our case sequencing is sourced from abroad
I'm not sure what can convince you, that I'm telling the truth, maybe ask some experts?
https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/brexit-uk-science/
So I think perhaps it has relevance.
Apologies had missed that bit. They did then evolve the argument somewhat though around where the UK focus was
molgrips
SubscriberTell us *why* it’s nonsense, please.
This is why we are getting frustrated mooman – you are declaring it nonsense, without any justification. So your argument doesn’t look good, you’ll have to admit.
If you had to critique the studies that Kimber has earlier posted .. do you think you would be able to identify many unreliable areas within them?
If you cant see any .. or not even that many, then I suggest you maybe look into how you critique a paper; it may ease your anxieties around Brexit also.
molgrips
SubscriberI’d love to be convinced that Brexit is a good idea, cos then I wouldn’t be so depressed.
I`d visit your GP and explain your mental health concern, and the trigger as you see it. I had previously cautioned you about making yourself unwell with your Brexit opinions/views.
molgrips
Subscriber
Why are you accusing him of making things up? You know he works in medical research, right? Why would he come on and invent stuff? Do you really think that’s what’s happening here? We’re just inventing things to try and make ourselves look big on the internet? I mean, I know that happens, but most of the people on here aren’t that kind of forum member.
No I didnt know he works in medical. But what difference does that make?
Does that make it impossible for him to lie? does that mean all EU employees inform him of their reasons regarding Brexit??
You ask why would he make things up, then add most of the people here arent that type of forum members ... how many STW forum members have you actually met in person?
If you had to critique the studies that Kimber has earlier posted .. do you think you would be able to identify many unreliable areas within them?
I'm still waiting to find out which shady studies ive been linking to!
Maybe I'm making it all up, maybe I've never met a single eu scientist who's complained about brexit
Maybe they all think it's going to be brilliant for them & for UK science
If that makes you feel better moonan than you can go ahead & think it, no skin off my nose!
Edit here's some more shady studies for you to critique
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/eu-scientists-engineers-want-leave-brexit-survey/
https://www.buzzfeed.com/kellyoakes/these-three-scientists-are-leaving-the-uk-because-of-brexit
Just looks to me that you have read those articles - and convinced yourself your imaginary scientist friends informed you of these things ... add delusional and grandiose to the list of concerns I have about you.
Do you know what area Kimbers works in? Who he works with? What do you do, and what are your links to the research community working in the UK?
Can we talk graphene next?
Edit - should have checked the links - already used as a high profile example.
If you cant see any .. or not even that many, then I suggest you maybe look into how you critique a paper; it may ease your anxieties around Brexit also.
I can. I want YOU to give me YOUR analysis. That's how debates are supposed to work.
No I didnt know he works in medical. But what difference does that make?
Does that make it impossible for him to lie?
No, but it makes it plausible that he knows lots of scientists. I have to say that, from an objective viewpoint, you look like you're scrabbling around on uncertain footing. Prove me wrong.
PS accusing someone directly of lying and making up arguments is not only bizarre it's also very unpleasant indeed. Rise above.
Hey @mooman if you're ever in London on a weekday drop me a message, I'll take you round the lab, we can even chat with some of my imaginary friends about brexit or whatever u like!
But the links you previously posted to validate your opinion/views as facts were complete nonsense
How so?
if somebody posting such rubbish from the Brexit camp, I imagine you would dismiss it as nonsense too.
No, we wouldn't, and that's the fundamental difference between leave and remain. We wouldn't "dismiss it as nonsense," we'd investigate it and then try to demonstrate and prove why it was nonsense (or not). The problem is that your lot don't care about either facts or evidence, you care about emotion.
Typically then after that, the "brexit camp" would either throw insults around or change the subject. You've got form on the former with pretty much every post you've made on this thread so far, maybe you'll fancy chancing your arm on the latter for a change?
I've not read the Brexit thread but have been
sucked into this little one. Mooman, you don't argue your case well. I too would like you to present some links to backup your opinion. I get that articles in some papers will be anti Brexit and all doom etc. But certain publications/outlets, like Chemistry World will just be presenting facts, why would they have political bias?
Brexit is a ****ing mess.