Some concrete ideas from Chewkw on the previous page. I think he's probably right. The EU won't sign up to anything that isn't level playing field so just go for all out competition as the only hope of making Brexit profitable. A western hemisphere Singapour and to hell with the welfare state.
The last 2 1/2 years have been about arguing the rules for the kick-boxing match. Gentlement take you gloves off, gum shields out, no groin protectors, get in that ring and get stuck in.
I'm wondering which country will land the first blow now that the UK is definitely out and the gloves are off. If I were Spain it would be Gibralta, as France I'd like it to be the financial passport, if I were German it would be car tax equality with the US, if I were Italian it would be refugee quotas, if... .
If I were Spain it would be Gibralta
I think I might enjoy the next 12 months of the EU giving plucky little england a harsh lesson in 21st century realpolitik. It's going to be brutal.
I'm glad you're looking forward to it.
I'm not.
I feel like a back seat passenger in a car being driven by a pissed up maniac
Finally, a detailed insight into why we're leaving. If only we'd had this three years ago.
Cheers Cougar I couldn’t work out how to post that video of Mooman.
I’m not.
Me neither.
And those hoping for disaster to ‘teach them a lesson’ sink far lower in my estimations than people who voted for this based on promises that it will improve things.
I don’t think it’ll be disaster, or rather I’m hopeful that it won’t. I do think it’ll limit the life choices of millions, and be a very expensive diversion for companies, institutions and individuals. A lost decade or more, rather than a crash of some kind. If we all work our nuts off to fix everything that this breaks, bit by bit, over the rest of our working lives, for the sake of the next generation, it’ll just be a huge waste of effort, rather than something worse. Hopefully.
Cougar, that's the video I was referring to on the other thread last night.
If there was ever an advert as to why never to let people have a referendum again, that man is it.
Some concrete ideas from Chewkw on the previous page. I think he’s probably right. The EU won’t sign up to anything that isn’t level playing field so just go for all out competition as the only hope of making Brexit profitable. A western hemisphere Singapour and to hell with the welfare state.
Like I said if you have muppets in govt then you have a problem. Just like at your present workplace, how many times have you heard of your boss being a muppet for mismanaging at work? It is the same with UK during and after Brexit. Where I work I have muppets as bosses and how they manage to get the job is astonishing i.e. by complying with bureaucratic tick boxes. Their management skills are practically zero other than inherited the system with power and authority given to them.
Just like in any companies UK will have to undergo a period of "restructuring" to make herself competitive. The tax incentives must be put in place to reorganise to help boost the industries etc and you may call this tax honeymoon period (need to have this for at least 20 years) before they can return back to silly tax regime (hopefully not). Plant the seed now and in few years time UK will be able to enjoy the fruit of their labour (don't have to wait for 20 years).
Of course EU won't sign up to anything they don't like or put them at a disadvantage coz that is the nature of competition.
Cougar, that’s the video I was referring to on the other thread last night.
If there was ever an advert as to why never to let people have a referendum again, that man is it.
In Are Wayne's defence, he did look absolutely plastered. Perhaps he'd have been a bit less likely to become the next muslamic rayguns Internet meme if he'd had six fewer cans of Tennant's Super before the interview.
Nothing. I created this before I saw the other one was all, and as I said on the first page I was very tired.
I got the the impression that you'd made an announcement on that thread that it would close at a particular time and you'd then start a new one, not just that you'd missed the other one.
Go and get some sleep, and don't worry binners will wake you with a kiss in a 100 years and whisper the glorious news that we are back in.
What was wrong with my thread?
You lost, get over it.
That video. Thick as ****ing mince.
Nothing is keeping you here, so why not go & live in another country then?
Great idea. Move to France, then get deported in 12 months because that’s literally what you’ve voted for. Thought about this, haven’t you.
Yep brexits done.
Still, questions remain as to which former EU residence rights each country ultimately will extend to British citizens, who instantly become third-country nationals in the event of a no-deal Brexit at the end of the 11-month transition period
To make the situation even more uncertain, in some countries such as France and Spain, Brits never have had to register as permanent residents, which introduces another layer of anxiety. Until they get their long-term residence status as a third-country nationals, they’ll won’t be able to leave their host country, then return as anything but tourists.
I’m wondering which country will land the first blow now that the UK is definitely out and the gloves are off. If I were Spain it would be Gibralta, as France I’d like it to be the financial passport, if I were German it would be car tax equality with the US, if I were Italian it would be refugee quotas, if…
Looks like the starting gun has been fired already. Triggered by Big Bens recorded Bongs, most likely...
Brexit trade talks: EU to back Spain over Gibraltar claims
The UK is about to get one almighty reality check
Yay. Something for Frank Marcois to start sabre rattling about. Imagine the opportunity to show the EU Army what for.
I imagine the EU Army must be massive since Turkey joined.
I've watched a few of those interview videos now. They all follow a similar pattern, and something has occurred to me.
The brexiters got what they wanted last night. In their minds, we've left, job done. They don't care about (or even remotely understand) the detail. When asked how they think it will affect their lives, better or worse, the answer is "it won't."
If we quietly extended the transition period to say 2120, it'd never be mentioned again and both sides would be happy.
hey dazh, calm down love. you should try understanding those leave voters...
There’s undoubtedly some shoddy journalism in this, but I wonder... a little truth?
European fugitives could flee from the UK to their home countries as three EU countries confirm they will not extradite their own nationals to Britain now that Brexit has happened.
Austria, Germany, and Slovenia have confirmed they will not extradite their nationals to the UK during the 11-month Brexit transition period which starts tomorrow.
It's not just those three, France doesn't generally extradite its citizens but does so under the European European arrest warrant system. Britain is no longer in the system and the 19th century conventions between France and the UK were torn up a few years back (no longer necessary under the European system). We're in a legal void - no extraditions.
I suspect I know the answer to this, but what are the tests and/or measures of whether this has been a success? Will the brexiteers still be crowing about their victory in 5-10 years if the country is properly on its knees? Or will it have to get so bad that a party wins an election based on rejoining?
R4 was asking the same to Bill Cash yesterday.... how will he measure if it's a success. And even he can't answer that, so resorted to the same old tactic of answer a different question over and over.
'It'll be a success if we leave fully at the end of the year'
' And if the economy drops by 50% ?'
'That won't happen'
'So how much can it drop by for it to still be a success
'It'll be a success because we are leaving, which is what the electorate voted for. Doing what they wanted makes it a success'
FFS.
If my wife wants the house to be a bit warmer and I set fire to it, I assume he thinks that's a success too?
Yeah but surely people don’t think brexit is a single event, rather than a long process over decades, and can be totally forgotten about now it’s been ‘done’?
Right? Right?
Guess ware going to have some epic ‘it’s not brexit, honest!’ excuses for why things will start to fail. More so than we’ve had so far.
If there was ever an advert as to why never to let people have a referendum again, that man is it.
There's always care needed with that logic. We're all relatively inarticulate. One Rees-Mogg and Mr Cummings probably see us as expendable, ill educated and not worthy of the vote. Generally lacking the intellect to comprehend the world as they believe it is - which is the only true reality.
Maybe the problem isnt who should be able to vote but how bad we are at communicating. Admittedly a bit of challenge when we live in a country that only handles binary. Where everything beyond two is lots and so just goes into background noise.
When the referendum was on I worked in a very pro leave office - we need a change was the main reason put forward; backed with concerns about under investment, loss of industry... basically everything to do with domestic policy. There was a general feeling of life was not good and Brexit enabled that to be articulated -rightly or wrongly - simply. There were a few I dont know so I won't vote and even one I dont know but I'm voting leave otherwise it counts as a vote for remain. The odd life was better out - ones who where actually old enough to remember out even if they were still at school - generally ones who felt life wasn't treating them well / was way way harder than it used to be. Harshly it might also be the glory of youth that some were missing.
You realise selling pro Europe benefits aren't even on the radar. You're talking to people about we what we already have (had) and it wasn't bringing any obvious benefits.
My predictions for 2020+
Boris and co attempt Trumpism with trade war type actions with EU in order to gain leverage.
EU responds by
Realising that it has no need to sell anything to the UK, and profits from not importing anything from the UK but trading with other EU members and partners, creating opportunity to fill the void left by anything they require from the UK by...
Throwing doors open to UK migrants, both bussiness and personal
creating a huge exodus of talented skilled educated people and thriving businesses who are granted EU citizenship and rights based on an AUS type point system*
UK becomes dependant on 3rd parties for everything as it has a population of gammons and corrupt politicians only to sustain it and gets chopped up and sold off in bits to jonny forriner investments inc..
UK market becomes saturated with Air BnBs owned by UK migrants tavilable so new "leavers" can pop over to spend their mighty euros as they please and laugh at the gammony "remainers" if so inclined
*point being if you are a gammon you stay put in the UK.
There was a general feeling of life was not good and Brexit enabled that to be articulated -rightly or wrongly – simply.
We’ve been over that a million times… so what change will those people welcome now that it’s coming next year?
Or we back to “where’s my Elephant” in 2016, replaced by nothing more than cheerful optimism and pride in 2020 (but no actual idea what should happen next)?
[not that optimism and pride can’t be positive and essential driving factors… but you have to have optimism and pride in something for it to be channeled usefully, don’t you?]
We’ve been over that a million times… so what change will those people welcome now that it’s coming next year?
That is the right question - unfortunately it would take a very very long time to tease out and get past the quick punch lines and into the feelings. It is really, what question are you going to ask?
Using the following as an example of not really people having the skills to articulate:
My own view, and following the rules of Brexit that analogy to films or past events must be used at all times. The next step is like the bit in Rocky Balboa where the trainer tells him what he can or cant do and focus on the strengths.
That's what pops into my head when you say Brexit transition. Well that and a meme showing Boris with his hands in the air and 'Just like that - staff - future gone' underneath it in the style of the just like that weekend gone one. Which probably means I think there is a way to get benefits from Brexit, its going to be hard work, a strong does of reality is required but I dont have faith in the people leading the country.
That Cash quote is scary. If we ever needed any more evidence that Brexit is another "True World Theory" for a lot of people then this is it.
Brexit is good because it's what the people want. What the people want is good.
OK, where have we heard this shit argument before. Oh yeah, every organised religion and every 20th century tyranny.
We do. We lost
Indeed we did. We need to move on, but we must not forget all the methods that the other side used to achieve what they did. We need to re-adjust our strategy and target the support mechanisms that they relied upon for a start.
The politicians, well the Prime minister is in it for himself, so will let the more committed to the cause tories do whatever damage they want, and since they ejected the more fiscally conservative tories so to speak, there will be money thrown at the problems that will inevitably arise from trying to achieve the pure ideological dreams of turning the country into a true free market economy, remember these people are thatchers children, this is her endgame. Also remember that the ruling party is not the party of business, it is the party of finance and hedge fund managers, so the rest of the economy can go down the toilet for all they care.
As for a deal by the end of this year? It will be a no deal brexit. This is what thatchers children want, and I think they wouldn't care if they are voted out in five years because of it, the damage will have been done...of course the passage of time and the narrative of the story in that time may play a part in this, along with whatever opposition, effective or otherwise is available.
Speaking of the narrative, Brexit is done as far as many are concerned. I'd be surprised if there is any bad news happening because of brexit in the UK reported by the right wing press or our national news broadcaster to make people realise that it isn't done by a long way, except of course to further vilify the EU over "how badly we are being treated" over a trade deal, which will further prepare people for a no deal brexit...and slow down any potential re-join.
The narrative is the key, it won them the referendum, so their narrative in the future must be disrupted and subverted. This may not work on those who ignored noble words, facts or reality, and wanted to be lied to, so to take a leaf out of the brexiters wordbook it must be done "by any means necessary".
Of course there's the Usa and trump trade deal, and a number of brexiters revere trump and his "revolution". A useful weapon here is to point out what has he actually done in reality. This may not impact on those who once again want to be lied to, but every little helps.
Finally, a detailed insight into why we’re leaving. If only we’d had this three years ago.
The media did seem to seek out these particular people, as they had had enough of experts, they are a significant minority, and any attempt to re-join the EU will need to keep this in mind. Because they believe that in or out of the EU has no impact on them(I think the next five years will change a few of their minds) they need to be manoeuvred into a position of irrelevance. But that will rely on ground work carried out elsewhere so when the time comes to re-join, their views won't matter.
Much like my feelings about the wonderful northern working class following the election, I’m done with trying to understand or empathise with them. They can all go and **** themselves.
Some of us working class northerner's neither voted leave or Tory.
🕷Mrs Miggins Esq (@MrsMigginsHere) Tweeted:
This one’s even better. Voted Leave, no clue why. 🤪 https://t.co/rMu73sMsBH ( https://twitter.com/MrsMigginsHere/status/1223366315383164928?s=20)
It gives an opportunity for stamp collectors.
What's the situation if I order some bike parts from Germany today?
Much like my feelings about the wonderful northern working class following the election, I’m done with trying to understand or empathise with them. They can all go and **** themselves
An Inspector Calls covers most of the bases
What’s the situation if I order some bike parts from Germany today?
no difference, we are still in the SM and CU, the only change is that commit a crime and you might not get extradited.
The affects, assuming Current course, kick in on the 1 jan 2021, at which point Kent is turned into a lorry park.
Again, what was wrong with molgrips' identical and earlier thread?
Will this post get deleted like my last identical one?
Again, what was wrong with molgrips’ identical and earlier thread?
Will this post get deleted like my last identical one?
Answer is on page 1 and 2, your other post is still there.
no difference, we are still in the SM and CU, the only change is that commit a crime and you might not get extradited.
Yeah, I was wondering about the warranty position etc in the longer term. I guess that's one of the big un-knowables at the moment.
The warranty will be with the place you bought it, as now. Now claiming on that warranty might be a little harder, but it is still there.
Yeah, I was wondering about the warranty position etc in the longer term. I guess that’s one of the big un-knowables at the moment.
I’m not sure it’s a big unknowable considering currently no ones got a scooby do about anything next year 🙂
I’d confirm the warranty position with the supplier/manufacturer some products have international warranty and some companies offer extended warranties.
I have a frame that the manufacturer offered an extended 5 yr warranty if registered and the only thing they stipulate is the product has to be warrarrantied via the original supplier.
Me northern working class scum....
Voted remain and sure as **** didn't vote Tory
Much like my feelings about the wonderful northern working class following the election, I’m done with trying to understand or empathise with them. They can all go and * themselves.
I knew you’d get there in the end.
Me northern working class scum….
Voted remain and sure as * didn’t vote Tory
Yes, but you aren’t racist from what I can tell.
The Nasty Party finally found a cause where their nastiness could transcend traditional ‘class’ divisions, and boy have they used it.
The fact that Boris and his rag tag rabble are laughing at those ex Labour voters behind their backs just doesn’t register with them, the fools.
...and on day one, they’ve already started to crawl out from under their rocks to reveal their true colours:
'Happy Brexit Day' “We finally have our great country back...we do not tolerate people speaking other languages than English in the flats.
...we are now our own country again...the Queens [sic] English is the spoken tongue here"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-51341735
Much like my feelings about the wonderful northern working class following the election, I’m done with trying to understand or empathise with them. They can all go and **** themselves.
Is it just northern working class you have an issue with or all. What about those that voted for one but not the other?
Poundshop Trump and his puppet master Cummings actually believe that they can control the racism and xenophobia they have unleashed.
There are genuinely millions of people out there that think we are going to make speaking a foreign language a crime and deport people who were born here, but happen to have brown skin.
When, inevitably, Joris lets them down they will look to real fascists.
If you look at history, Johnson is playing the Von Papen role. Trying to ride a wave of populism to keep the right wing united. The issue is where this leads when the really nasty people, of which there are plenty, start to feel betrayed by him.
I've just watched the Brexit news sections on BBC, ITV and C4 news.
Each channel interviewed members of the general public, and between all the interviews i saw, there were approx 9 people who voted to leave who were asked "why did you vote leave, and what benefit will leaving bring?" and not one, not one single person, could answer the question.
Lots of Hmm's, er's, and "we're taking back control" sound bytes, but not a single, actual, objective or proveable fact was given in response.
