I’m sure the Union Jacks in the Reichstag Radisson of the media room is going down well in NI.
But even that is a fail because they'll need to be removing the blue bits and the diagonal red bits soon. Still at least the Welsh can get some 'flag representation' if they chuck a dragon in the bottom right hand corner of the cross of St George.
Morons.
Mind you, I can't see Queenie and/or Charlieboy being too happy with De Pfeffel when the Scots requisition Balmoral and send them packing. Then turned it into an exhibition centre for works by european fringe artists of minority ethnic descent and/or gender-line-blurring social groupings.
A nice '**** you' to end however many hundreds of years of English (well German-Greek really) monarchy.
I've just spent the day looking after my parents and they had both been blaming the NI situation squarely on the EU, quoting the lies they had been told by the Daily Mail and The Sun.
It took me showing them the clips of Boris saying that there would never be a border in the Irish Sea, that he voted against May's deal and a few other things then explaining to them that what he had 'negotiated' was in fact the exact thing he had voted against and dismissed previously.
It may have gone quiet for a few minutes while that all sunk in. They are still adamant that the whole issue is mainly the EU's fault though. Here's the most poisonous bit:
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The bit that duped my parents starts just before the big B. Basically old Boris had been set up and was doomed to fail by what he inherited. Yes, the inheritance he had help create from the very beginning.
If the NI situation gets out of hand, which I fear it will, then the blame lies squarely at Johnson's feet. Sadly it'll take nothing short of a direct attack against him for him to admit to that. He must realise it though, he just doesn't give a shit.
If the NI situation gets out of hand, which I fear it will, then the blame lies squarely at Johnson’s feet. Sadly it’ll take nothing short of a direct attack against him for him to admit to that. He must realise it though, he just doesn’t give a shit.
They could always try scheduling the Party rally conference in Brighton again...
Just popped onto the Daily Telegraph website. The first 23 articles were about Prince Phillip. The next 3 were about the pubs reopening and going on summer holidays. Then it was the golf. Then a bit of football. Then Northern Ireland.
In order of importance, Northern Ireland made it to number 48.
Though to be fair, I expect many of the Telegraph's journalists are beavering away, trying to find a way of inserting BLM and the Woke brigade into the Northern Ireland narrative.
They could always try scheduling the Party
rallyconference in Brighton again…
Some friends of that very nice Mr McGuiness could do the entertainment for them! And one of the hotels will get a thorough refurb.
Just popped onto the Daily Telegraph website. The first 23 articles were about Prince Phillip.
Typical Brexy Telegraph complaining about foreign immigrants.
Been following the riots on the news (well, before we went all North Korea yesterday) and my first thought was 'I bet the usual suspects on the STW brexit thread are ecstatic'. I wasn't disappointed. Has anyone actually asked themselves what's really causing these riots rather than lazily assuming it's brexit? Seems to me your average loyalist rioter is not going to be too interested in single markets and customs unions.
Seems to me your average loyalist rioter is not going to be too interested in single markets and customs unions.
Surely you are epically misunderstanding the 'spirit of the GFA'
Tbf your the first brexit cheerleader to comment on this thread since the Tories, even if it is to deny any association with brexit
Seems to me your average loyalist rioter is not going to be too interested in single markets and customs unions.
They aren't. But they are very sensitive to any suggestions that the republicans are 'winning'. Boris' deal pretty much guarantees a united Ireland within a decade, which is the absolute definition of a republican win. So of course it's bloody brexit.
brexit cheerleader
Still a solid remainer I'm afraid. I'm just not doing the hysteria.
Boris’ deal pretty much guarantees a united Ireland within a decade
Well as a long time republican I can only hope that's the case. Irish reunification and the fishing and meat industries screwed. The benefits are stacking up 🙂
So far the people who have been most correct on their brexit predictions have been my more nationalist family back in NI who mischieviously voted for brexit on the basis that it would end up with unionists and the british establishment tearing themselves to bits
Seems to me your average loyalist rioter is not going to be too interested in single markets and customs unions.
They are very much interested when they get told that they are now 'less british' as a result.
Has anyone actually asked themselves what’s really causing these riots
If you'd bothered to read the thread you'd have seen people making exactly that point. Plenty of hay to be made by all the various factions involved in ni that will thrive on the chaos caused. It's a shame so people are going to have to get hurt.
Seems to me your average loyalist rioter is not going to be too interested in single markets and customs unions.
To them the British Government opting for border down the Irish Sea instead of a Border with the South and the EU sends out a very clear message. And it's not one they ever want to hear. More importantly, it is the exact opposite of what they were promised all along, on multiple occasions, by Boris himself
Has anyone actually asked themselves what’s really causing these riots rather than lazily assuming it’s brexit?
If you ask Unionists, Nationalists and the police they’ll tell you different things but it’s all happening with the backdrop of the NI Protocol and Loyalists are withdrawing their support for the GFA. Paramilitaries are grooming kids and the fear and unrest filters through communities.
No-one is saying the Bobby Storey funeral issue (and covid measures) wouldn’t have caused unrests, but you must be trying really hard to ignore the big stick in your eye:
David Campbell, a spokesman for the Loyalist Communities Council (LCC), said there were fears that more militant members would move to take control of the Ulster Defence Association (UDA), Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Red Hand Commando.
“Young people are absolutely incensed by the protocol. The danger here is that any radical person who wants to start a movement that isn’t based on peace and constitutional means of protest, they will have a ready and receptive audience,” he told The Times.
You want to wash Boris’s arse of it, then fine, and you’ll still get plenty of help for that in many quarters.
I’m just not doing the hysteria.
Maybe you should take a trip to Belfast and get your news from people in the street? You may find out that it’s just easter time in NI. Or that Covid has made the youngsters antsy and nothing to do with politics. You could surely find whatever you wanted. Excepting of course anything about the NIP/border and the GFA. Because then you’d be ‘hysterical’.
Some more foreboding hysteria (10th Feb)
https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1359563114954567680
So far the people who have been most correct on their brexit predictions have been my more nationalist family back in NI who mischieviously voted for brexit on the basis that it would end up with unionists and the british establishment tearing themselves to bits
I like to call it the Brexit mischief opportunity.
Has anyone actually asked themselves what’s really causing these riots rather than lazily assuming it’s brexit? Seems to me your average loyalist rioter is not going to be too interested in single markets and customs unions.
The GFA was set up in such a way that both sides could claim it as a victory for them while not giving any advantage to either. To keep this balance everything had to be kept as stable as possible through talks, political negotiations and votes. If you read it thoroughly it's actually a very clever piece of legislation that was down to a huge amount of thought, diplomacy and intelligence of the situation by Mo Mowlem and her team.
The Brexit deal has thrown all of that out of the window, introducing new and difficult issues that have disadvantaged both sides to differing degrees. This had ignited old tensions and feelings leading to disenchantment with the political system and it's effects. Brexit has essentially torpedoed the GFA in one fell swoop, possibly irreparably. The rioters may not give a toss about the details of the Brexit deal but they sure as hell give a toss about it's effects. Lets not forget that the full effects have still yet to take effect so it's only going to get worse. I'm actually surprised it has taken this long to get to a turning point, although that worries me as it could mean that more serious plans are being made for larger action.
The riots and any further action are a direct result of the deal that Boris signed and thus the blood is on his hands. He was consistently warned about the NI issues and even used them as an argument for not voting for May's deal so if he comes out and says they were not foreseeable I will gladly go to wherever he is and remind him.
Been following the riots on the news (well, before we went all North Korea yesterday) and my first thought was ‘I bet the usual suspects on the STW brexit thread are ecstatic’. I wasn’t disappointed. Has anyone actually asked themselves what’s really causing these riots rather than lazily assuming it’s brexit? Seems to me your average loyalist rioter is not going to be too interested in single markets and customs unions.
Oh **** me. Daz has trotted out his usual shite only this time he's stuck a bowler hat on it.😆
Still a solid remainer I’m afraid.
No. You. Aren't.
And you never were.
If I was De Pfeffel I'd be asking the CP lads if they've really looked under the car properly...
The riots and any further action are a direct result of the deal that Boris signed
Or perhaps it's because Northern Ireland has been on a (slow) path towards reunification ever since the GFA, and the anger of the loyalists has been building for a long time irregardless of brexit. It's pretty simplistic to blame it all on the brexit deal, at most it's just created a spark. What's more illustrative though is that the complexities of the NI issue are conveniently forgotten because it suits the remainer narrative. As usual Northern Ireland is being used as a lightning rod for political battles which the people themselves have little interest in.
No. You. Aren’t.
I can assure you I am. I would vote to rejoin if offered, but that would be despite the remain hysteria rather than because of it.
The GFA, while both states were in the EU, allowed a blurring… bringing NI closer to the rest of Ireland without divorcing it from the UK. Choices now need to be made.
It’s pretty simplistic to blame it all on the brexit deal,
It would be. As would assuming the only reason people mention/roll eyes at Boris’s Brexit’s current contribution (in the Brexit thread) would be because they were:
1. ‘Blaming it all on Brexit’
2. Being ‘hysterical’.
That would be ‘pretty simplistic’, wouldn’t it? Strawmanningly so 😉
For a hat trick why not also assume/claim that anyone having mentioned it were also somehow ‘ecstatic’, ie psychopathically happy about the situation because they couldn’t really care less about the situation for reason/s other than spite and/or smugness.
Have a think about it? I’m not being snarky btw. Genuinely curious what makes people insert motives while accusing others of doing so. Projection, maybe?
hysteria
You like this word a lot dazh.
You like this word a lot
There's a lot of it about. Much of it on this thread. 🙂
Hysterical Dazh. Hysterical.
There’s a lot of it about. Much of it on this thread.
There’s **** all of it on this thread. There’s always been a lot of accusations of it from you though. It’s straight out of your old school Brocialist insult playbook. Nobody here is “ecstatic” about rioting in NI. And for you to accuse anyone of being even mildly happy about it is insulting, and you ought to know better, but sometimes you just can’t help yourself. Is there a lot of tired “told you so?” Of course there is. What the **** did you expect? I explained these differences to you once. That you still don’t understand them is no great surprise.
Tell you what though, your analysis of the, and I’ll paraphrase here, inevitable reunification of NI with the RoI is about where I’d expect it to be from a Britsplaining Brexit/Lexit apologist of your likes. That is, ****ing miles off. And laughable in its simplicity. You could be taken through it in baby steps if you want. I’m not sure the energy taken would be worth it though.
hysteria
You like this word a lot dazh.
Well he is saying it with the casual nonchalance of someone who got what they wanted all along. 🤷♂️
Nobody here is “ecstatic” about rioting in NI
I was wondering that, looked back and couldn’t find what he was talking about.
I was wondering that, looked back and couldn’t find what he was talking about.
Strange, eh?
Bit quiet aren't we daz?
Laying low because you're getting worried more folk are cottoning on to your act?
You lot would do well to have a read of this.
Hardly a mention of brexit, but lots about deprivation, the failure of politicians to represent their interests, a perceived unequal treatment at the hands of the police. Sound familiar? The same forces that fuelled brexit are fuelling the divisions in NI. Brexit isn't the cause, it's the sympton.
You lot would do well to have a read of this
And you might do well to read this (from the same paper) Yes there is a lot of problems in NI but the peace process has held up until Boris put his border in the Irish sea and that is the straw that broke the camels back.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/09/northern-ireland-unrest-is-the-result-of-a-reckless-brexit-deal
Hardly a mention of brexit,
Rubbish:
“ , the intricacies and compromises of politics, policing, Brexit and the Northern Ireland protocol could all be boiled down to this: his side was losing, and that had to stop.”
“We’re part of the UK, but they’re trying to make Northern Ireland into a united Ireland,” said Bob, as his lieutenants nodded.
“Older loyalists such as John Scott, 61, a retired musician, were not manning barricades but felt the protests served a purpose. Johnson had betrayed unionists over Brexit”
You lot would do well to have a read of this
Killer blow
Enjoy victory.
Boris’ deal pretty much guarantees a united Ireland within a decade,
@onewheelgood how will that play out, that is, where are the necessary votes going to come from, and how would it work if sectarian violence has resumed in the meantime? What will the folks in the South think of it given the situation in NI? How can NI even start on the road to re-union until politics there gets more normal?
No, no, no.
It cannot possibly be about Brexit if you listen to daz.
Everything (anything) else, though.
Our resident 'reluctant Brexiteer' has spoken.
how will that play out,
I think it will be a combination of economics, and the hard-line loyalists dying out. Faced with a failing UK and a thriving EU it will be obvious enough which side their bread is buttered, and there will be the necessary majority.
Faced with a failing UK and a thriving EU it will be obvious enough which side their bread is buttered, and there will be the necessary majority.
That is certainly the direction of travel. However, the question is the 'how?'
I doubt it will be 'frictionless' (another classic glib bit of Brexiteer bullshit).
Did Daz post the wrong article by mistake?
Did Daz post the wrong article by mistake?
No he posted one article that advances his pet theories and it was immediately countered by another article in the same paper that attributes much of the issue, correctly, to Brexshit.
But daz won't be posting so regularly for a bit - he is good at knowing when his act is wearing thin and goes off grid for a bit. Before reappearing early next week banging on about made up hysteria and how nothing is ever the fault of the people who voted for Brexshit.
😴
Our resident ‘reluctant Brexiteer’ has spoken.
I think you're being unfair on Dazh.
Up until the vote he consistently argued in favour of remain. He then became a Brexit apologist in a must respect the vote way. Then he decided that if Brexit it was to be it should be Lexit or some left wing version of Brexit. Recently he seems to be in denial about how far reaching the impact of Brexit is and how the downsides are proving real whereas the upsides just aren't happening.
I'll stick with "Brexit apologist" because he's never crossed the line to becoming even a reluctant Brexiter himself.
I prefer 'appeaser' to 'apologist'.
I think it will be a combination of economics, and the hard-line loyalists dying out. Faced with a failing UK and a thriving EU it will be obvious enough which side their bread is buttered, and there will be the necessary majority.
Is Ireland a better place to be poor than UK? Will the NI middle classes remain as well off? Their kids will gain opportunities in the EU, but they will lose opportunities in the UK. I don't know enough detail, the answers to this type of question do not appear obvious to me. Just waving generally at "the EU" is not detailed enough. And the question applies to those in the Republic as well - there will need to be a referendum there, will the (presumable) large emotional attachment to re-unification be balanced by unease about taking on a basket-case of a state (assuming the NI politicians don't get their act together any time soon)?
Edit to add link - it doesn't look like it will be plain siling, even in calm waters:
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/irish-reunification
