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have to wonder how people will respond when they realise what Brexit means?
have to wonder how people will respond when they realise what Brexit means?
If they didnt understand what Brexit meant 4 years ago then anything short of a explanation attached to a length of 2x4 and swung vigorously in their direction will fail to sink home
If they didnt understand what Brexit meant 4 years ago then anything short of a explanation attached to a length of 2×4 and swung vigorously in their direction will fail to sink home
January will be the 2x4, that is rather the point, when the sunny uplands are obviously not happening, when the nasty EU demands that they queue in the non eu lanes, when they discover travel insurance costs more, when the price of everything rises, when there are shortages, when red tape swaps everything. etc etc etc.
kimbers
Subscriberts all a smear
So in case you were still wondering if the report found that Russia interfered in the referendum, now we can be certain it does.
"Don't smear Brexit".
**** off.
It will 'smear' itself when the bloody idiots in this country actually wake up to the fact they are worse off because of it and they got nothing they wanted.
Pointing out that it was all the result of Russian interference (given the closeness of the result this is a reasonable statement IMO) is just the icing on the cake. Just enough interference to sway a narrow result away from the grown ups.
Game, set and match to Putin.
I wonder if The conservative friends of Russia, Carrie Symonds, Harry Cole and Guido get a mention
She's had quite the rise through the ranks
So in case you were still wondering if the report found that Russia interfered in the referendum, now we can be certain it does.
We can be certain that the Express thinks there was Russian interference... (who doesn't)... but the report itself might still be quite equivocal about it, in the absence of hard evidence. There must me something in there that reflects badly on key people in the current no10 team though... or we'd have read it last year, and there wouldn't be a string of Conservative MPs sacked to keep it unreleased...
Last week's Russian style "news shaping" ready for this finally coming out was... and I kid you not... Cummings sending a string of Tories out to the media to say that... "because the Report has been so delayed, it is now out of date, so should be ignored"... through the looking glass stuff. Depressing. What depresses me most is the keenness for BBC news programmes to support this "news shaping" rather than challenge it... we're not heading to a good place, are we.
It will remain ignored when the bloody idiots in this country never wake up to the fact they are worse off because of it, and so continue to point fingers at ‘remoaners’, foreigners/the EU, ‘lefties’, immigrants, refugees and homosexuals
FTFY
It’s been a while… but a Conservative MP is proposing something you’d think everyone could agree with…
https://twitter.com/jdjanogly/status/1285094900380434432?s=21
https://twitter.com/hansardsociety/status/1285190708962496512?s=21
Harder… harder… harder…
“No cooperation”
“Er… this is our project, and arguably benefits the UK more than any country, other than perhaps Germany”
“No cooperation”
https://twitter.com/kluwerblogger/status/1285183599625502722?s=21
It will ‘smear’ itself when the bloody idiots in this country actually wake up to the fact they are worse off because of it and they got nothing they wanted.
By which time it'll be far too late to do anything about it.
The Russia report was delayed until we were past the point of no-return, past the point at which one or two remainer MPs might have possibly been able to say "hang on a sec, this is all a bit fishy, we'll put forward a motion to extend transition". Now it's just another water under the bridge moment to join the ranks of lies which are already piled up around Boris and the Tories and which will likely go unremarked.
The Leavers don't care, they got what they wanted (or more accurately, at the moment they think they're getting what they were promised of forriners going home), the Renainers knew all along so it's no great surprise and we're back at the start with a divided nation.
Oh well, unscrutinised trade deals passed without a vote to accept them it is then… obviously…
https://twitter.com/balancepoweruk/status/1285307187062083586?s=21
may as well scrap parliament, it serves little purpose now.I'm sure that is on PM Dom's list to do.
My question is, as a person living in BC who is considering coming back. Will the legal payed annual leave, and relatively low cost of living/high wages be impacted by this.
Or to put it another way. Will the UK become as expensive as BC, and will you only get 10 days payed annual leave once Brexit happens?
What a surprise that The Telegraph were given snippets to lead the narrative
may as well scrap parliament, it serves little purpose now.I’m sure that is on PM Dom’s list to do.
A suspiciously convenient fire, perhaps?
alex 22. I don't expect things to get much more expensive. I do expect an assault on workers rights tho
Or to put it another way. Will the UK become as expensive as BC, and will you only get 10 days payed annual leave once Brexit happens?
Brexshit isn't the only reason, but I do think we are heading this way.
It is about to be a *lot* more expensive to live in the UK - and that will have an impact on all sorts of things.
Annual leave, I think it is embedded enough that folk will fight any reduction in the UK. The issue would be the slow drip of new contracts with fewer days, so in a decade we may see shrinking holiday allowances.
I knew it would happen all along but it’s still ****ing cripplingly depressing to watch it in slow motion.
Astoundingly, as of the time of publishing, Evolve Politics are only media outlet who have covered the story – with the BBC, Sky News, ITV and numerous other mainstream media outlets appearing to decide that it was, for some reason, not newsworthy.
Go back to sleep. We all know that the BBC are literally the propaganda arm of the NHS/gulags/Stalin. Go back to sleep. Nothing to see here.
Is there any evidence to back up the claim that it will not get more expensive but that holiday pay will be reduced. Or the alternative that others suggest, it will get more expensive but holiday won't be reduced?
My mps response as dictated by central office.
Any other cut and paste response?
Dear (redacted)
Last night, the House of Commons debated amendments to the Trade Bill.
It's right that how I vote for East Devon is scrutinised. I’m your MP and represent you. I completely share the strength of feeling many have felt over the past 24 hours, as shown on local East Devon Facebook groups and emails I’ve received.
The Trade Bill debated last night is all about transitioning Free Trade Agreements we have already agreed so they continue after the transition period with the EU ends. To implement new agreements with global partners, the government will bring forward separate primary legislation. The Trade Bill cannot be used to implement future trade deals.
I have been clear that any trade deal the UK strikes must be fair and reciprocal to our farmers, and must not compromise on our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food safety standards. I have been assured by ministers that they have no intention of lowering on our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food standards in transitioned trade agreements.
I made my views clear when I supported an amendment to the Agriculture Bill put forward by Neil Parish MP working closely with the NFU. A few weeks after this vote, the Government agreed to establish a Trade and Agriculture Commission. By forming this Commission, Ministers can ensure close engagement with the agriculture industry to help inform, shape and guide agricultural trade policy, so that this is recognised throughout our trade negotiations. Once the Commission has finished its work, it will produce a report in line with its terms of reference that will be presented to Parliament by the Department for International Trade.
We have always protected our right to choose how we would deliver public services in trade agreements, and we will continue to do so. Rigorous checks and balances on the government’s power to negotiate and ratify trade agreements are in place via the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010.
Kind regards
Simon
Simon Jupp MP
transitioning Free Trade Agreements we have already agreed so they continue after the transition period
What? After the transition period ends there will be a period of transition? Am I reading that correctly?
I’d have loved to have received a similar copy and paste from my new Tory MP, James Daly, who with wearying predictability voted with the government to flog off the NHS to Trump in any future trade deal.
Unfortunately he won’t reply to my (or anybody else’s) emails, and has blocked me (and everybody else) from his social media feeds for asking why he won’t answer our emails.
He’s really got to grips with this representative democracy lark. He repeats what Dom tells him to repeat, votes how Dom tells him to vote and ignores all his constituents.
He’ll go far, I’m sure
Yep, spineless Tory whip following, career cretin for North Easy Derbyshire as well.
Makes sense though. If you just vote as told by Dumb Cum, you don't have to actually do any work, reading, tolding to the great unwashed - politics is a doddle.
He’s really got to grips with this representative democracy lark. He repeats what Dom tells him to repeat, votes how Dom tells him to vote and ignores all his constituents.
Thank god we took back control from these unelected EU bureaucrats.
Am I reading that correctly?
Nope - although there may be another transition period.
There will not be another transition period. Johnson has to pay off his backers. We are going out "NO Deal" as soon as they can do it.
Is there any evidence to back up the claim that it will not get more expensive but that holiday pay will be reduced. Or the alternative that others suggest, it will get more expensive but holiday won’t be reduced?
Its clear to me that one of the key aims in this is to reduce workforce costs by reducing our legal protections. So I bet holiday is reduced in general as the WTD will no longer apply - in england
As for costs - two factors - cheap low grade imports will reduce some costs but tarrifs will increase some
There won’t be another transition period. That ship sailed a few weeks ago. What’s now in play is a legally defined exit period. It’s now law, not politics. We have now officially left the EU
The only two options now available to the government are a negotiated trading arrangement or a no deal crash out.
Hmmmmmm.... I wonder which it will be?
Johnson has to pay off his backers.
The only two options now available to the government are a negotiated trading arrangement or a no deal crash out.
Hmmmmmm…. I wonder which it will be?
The heist of a lifetime.
This 'government' is utterly corrupt and they don't even bother to try to hide it very well.
But they (Cum Dommings amongst others) figured out two things long ago:
1. Many people don't actually take any interest in the news or politics, meaning their experience of it is stuff fed to them via social media that contains simple three-word slogans.
2. Many people have barely suppressed prejudices and petty dislikes that can be appealed to in a targeted way whilst not being addressed in any detail.
It is what we are going to be left with when this rabble have pissed off overseas or live in Londonigrad with their money offshore that worries me.
Given the petty nastiness exposed since 2016, I'm not sure we as a 'society' are going to rally together to rebuild in a fairer way. Much more likely is economic catastrophe followed by rats in a sack infighting over every job / contract / street corner begging spot, which will keep everyone at each other's throats and easy meat for the 'blame them' propaganda.
This 'government' literally doesn't give a shit what happens after.
This ‘government’ literally doesn’t give a shit what happens after.
They know, and we all know exactly what’s going to happen once we’re ‘free’ from EU legislation. We don’t need to list the inevitable. It was previously labelled ‘Project Fear’. Now it’s a best case scenario
It doesn’t really matter if Dom and Dommer hang around to do it (they won’t) or their acolytes carry out the privatisation of the NHS, the shredding or workers rights and environmental controls, rubber stamp our subservience to the US and just make life immeasurably worse for 99% of us, it now has an unstoppable inevitability to it
We’re all well and truly ****ed!
The lack of BBC (in main) reporting is one the scary things about all of this. I think it shows how much control this government has over the press and what propaganda they want to push.
The irony of Andrew Marr grilling the Chinese ambassador over their reporting at the weekend.
Corbyn proved right?!? Everyone from John Major, to Tony Blair called this right…
https://twitter.com/mrnickharvey/status/1199833765440348165?s=20
Britain close to abandoning hope of Brexit trade deal
The easiest deal in history? Surely the only reason we can't get a deal is because of the huge mob of Europeans clattering at our door to be allowed first dibs?
What's that? We've just become an international irrelevance...?
Oh.
This was always the end game.
The EU was never going to allow the UK to cherrypick a 'cake and eat it' deal but Boris and chums are still demanding exactly that. There was never any serious intention of arriving at a deal. Their Disaster Capitalist backers need the chaos of a 'No Deal' Brexit for their payoff.
All 'negotiations' have been a charade where the UK government goes through the motions just enough for them to try and lay the blame on the EU for the resulting economic catastrophe. Expect that narrative to be ratcheted up between now and January.
When we all wake up in the new year to the entire South East of England being a lorry park, chaos in Ireland, our currency collapsing and UK based businesses either going bust or rapidly relocating to the mainland EU, it'll all be fine because... fish
As long as those that voted for it have a fish, blue passport of The Bus of Lies tattooed across their foreheads I'll be happy. They'll also be the first ones to get fired off when businesses have to downsize.
Proper little echo chamber in here...
There's always Twitter if you fancied something a bit more 'YOU LOST!! GET OVER IT!!!!'
In other 'Sunlit Uplands' news, looks like as well as abandoning hope of an EU Trade Deal Today, we've lost any hope of another one too. The one that was going to save our economy.
UK abandons hope of US trade deal by end of year
Oh well. I'm sure everything will work out ok
Proper little echo chamber in here…
Please add your (positive?) Brexspective, I for one am desperate for some good news.
No because N.Ireland is basically remaining in. I dont believe in all the doom and gloom peddled in here though, STW suffers from an anti-Tory bias and as such you lot only seem to search for things to confirm your fears.
Try searching for it Malvern? As I mentioned, confirmation bias. You lot can at least change the government of the country in the next election, as a resident of N.I I have no such ability.
That's interesting, how would you have NI leave the EU without breaking the GFA then?
STW suffers from an anti-Tory bias and as such you lot only seem to search for things to confirm your fears.
You don't have to do much searching when The Torygraph itself, the last bastion of Brexit, is informing us that we'll be crashing out with no deal in December, with all the catastrophic economic implications that involves
Do feel free to provide us with balance in the form of some great Brexit news? Maybe something about the colour of passports?
feel free to provide us with balance in the form of some great Brexit news?
The answer was ‘no’. I actually agree with douggiedogg, it is an ‘echo-chamber’. I genuinely fear though that it’s an ‘echo-chamber‘ because no-one has any Brevidence to the contrary.
As I mentioned, confirmation bias.
Again, completely agree. At the start of all this I was heavily biased against the main agitators and actors involved. Biased too against their motives. Confirmations of my predictions/expectations and worst fears have arrived on schedule for the last half a decade.
You lot can at least change the government of the country in the next election, as a resident of N.I I have no such ability.
Tories will win. No question. Getting it done. Also, how would a change of Government change what has now been ripped up? The country is torn asunder. Tell me it ain’t so?
Proper little echo chamber in here…
Give us the good news we're missing then... please.
Theres no Brevidence because it hasn't happened yet, its all speculation still. Thats why I made my comment about STW being an echo chamber of negative views about Brexit, the only substance I see here is anti-Tory speculation.
On N.I, there is no solution to the GFA other than the one which has been adopted, I didn't say there was.
On the subject of the country being torn asunder, yes possibly, but I think devolution has had as much of an impact on that as Brexit.
So, give us the positive "views", or even better... positive news.
Being repeatedly lied to then having all the things you were called a traitor for predicting come true after all tends to give one a certain cynicism. Weird eh.
the only substance I see here is anti-Tory speculation.
The anti-Tory speculation of the front page of that well-known left-wing mouthpiece the Daily Telegraph?
Yes, they're renowned for their hostility toward both Boris Johnson and Brexit, aren't they?
Even they can't scrape together anything positive to say about the upcoming disaster
You don’t have to do much searching when The Torygraph itself, the last bastion of Brexit, is informing us that we’ll be crashing out with no deal* in December
Telegraph? You need the Daily Express upyer.
SWYDT? You’re making it sound as if ‘no deal’ = a bad/undesirable thing.
I dont take my opinions from any newspapers folks.
The good news for me, the UK gets to remove one level of governance from the council < devolved < westminister < EU system.
Saved this page so that we can reflect back on it when the good news arrives.
I dont take my opinions from any newspapers folks
Where do you get your positive news from, and could you please save us from our echo chamber by sharing it with us? Please. We genuinely want to hear it. Brexit has happened. The transition period now has an unmovable end date. We can’t seek to stop either. So, hearing good news related to either would be genuinely welcome.
---------------------------------------------
EDIT... ...to reply to the edit....
The good news for me, the UK gets to remove one level of governance from the council < devolved < westminister < EU system.
You do know the "EU system" still exists? This is like not sending MPs to Westminster anymore... and so claiming to be free from the effects of the decisions that continue to be made there... hint... we're not... and if you live in Northern Ireland, especially are not.
I dont take my opinions from any newspapers folks
Online then? Again, would really appreciate a pointer
The good news for me, the UK gets to remove one level of governance from the council < devolved < westminister < EU system.
Gotta say, you're the first person in Ireland I've ever come across who's in favour of handing absolute unbridled power to the English government.
Pro-Brexit opinion:
Theres no Brevidence because it hasn’t happened yet, it’s still all specualation
Biased STW ‘echo-chamber’ opinion:
Brexit has happened. The transition period now has an unmovable end date.
Oh my head.
I thought it was the UK government?
Sorry Malvern, but as far as I was aware negotiations (possibly limited as they are) where still ongoing? Therefore nothing has actually happened yet?
As for the NHS being sold off, when I go for my CT scans its with a private company through the NHS, So my question is, has privitisation not already happened and why is it such a bad thing? Tax payers do actually pay for the NHS.
Therefore nothing has actually happened yet?
So, on that basis, if you go and stand in the middle of the road and a car is heading straight for you at 70mph, then that's all fine because technically nothing has actually happened yet?
We havent agreed which lane we are standing in and which lane the car is travelling in
I'm yet to see one benefit of Brexit so far, and I have seen no information out there that says once we are truly free from the EU these will be the list of benefits & they outweigh the list of negatives because of X, Y, Z.
Say for example there is a benefit - a real benefit that will affect people in a positive way; not just words like sovereignty, taking back control, making our own decisions, no more unelected bureaucrats etc. That/those benefits have to outweigh all of the bad things Brexit has done, to make them worthwhile.
I have taken much more interest in politics over the last 5 years or so but still consider myself pretty naive to the workings of political systems, motives, integration with the EU etc. There is a lot to learn.
But, from my layman point of view we seem to have lost (and please correct me if I am wrong because I probably am in some aspects):
- ERASMUS
- E111 health card
- Pet passports
- Simple foreign holidays (as in, no need to worry about visas, passports being valid for 6 months+ etc)
- Driving in Europe - will we need an international driving permit?
- Galileo
- access to Europol; no confirmation as of yet that I have seen we will still have access to Europol data & resources
Plus
- it seems likely we will need to pay more for things if we order from Europe because of import duty/tariffs
- customs paperwork seems to be going up massively (weren't we supposed to be getting rid of unnecessary red tape?) for most businesses
- the cost of customs officials to administer all of this on an on-going basis has been estimated at £1.5bn (for an estimate of 50,000 people to administer all the required paperwork).
If someone could argue that yes, we do lose those things but we gain so many other things & quantify in real terms what they are I would perhaps change my viewpoint. But, I have not seen any 'good' things yet.
We haven't agreed which lane we are standing in and which lane the car is traveling in
Oh yes we have. We're both very much in the same lane, and the UK is the rabbit in the headlights to the EU's juggernaut.
Much as they keep trying to rebrand it with all their 'Australian Style Deal' bollocks, everyone knows that that means No Deal.
And even the most hardcore Brexiteer always assured us that no deal definitely wouldn't be happening, because that would be financially catastrophic for the UK.
We havent agreed which lane we are standing in and which lane the car is travelling in
Right. Stop and think for a second about what you just wrote there.
Binners' example was for you to go stand in the middle of the M6 and your immediate response is "which lane?" rather than getting the **** over to the hard shoulder and diving behind the Armco tout suite.
As brexit analogies go, it's one of the better ones I've seen recently.
What does the armco signify?
The good news for me, the UK gets to remove one level of governance from the council < devolved < westminister < EU system.
Hmm. I some sympathy for that position, I was never in favour of devolution, but if it's here, really the English should also have their own parliament.
Unfortunately what we're heading for will make the breakup of the UK much more likely, and I suspect Dougie, a United Ireland much more likely too. So it rather looks like you at least won't be getting rid of the EU any time soon. Sorry about that.
sovereignty, taking back control, making our own decisions, no more unelected bureaucrats
Some would say these are benefits
No more unelected bureaucrats… when do we get that one?
And again, decisions made jointly at the EU level will still effect us all, and if you’re in Northern Island you especially, but we no longer have representation or a role there in the council of ministers, the courts, the parliament… etc.
I’m yet to see one benefit of Brexit so far
We get our sovereignty back that we never lost and they don't know what the word means anyway but it sounds important.
It would be undemocratic not to, if we redefine democracy as pandering to a tiny majority and attempting to silence anyone who disagrees.
Brussels won't be telling us what to do any more, neatly overlooking the fact that UK MEPs made up fully one tenth of the European Parliament and in a very real sense we told them what to do.
We don't want unelected bureaucrats, so we'll presumably be sacking the civil service next year too.
We get control of our borders that we already had control of.
We can reduce red tape by doing loads of admin work ourselves that we previously palmed off onto central resources so we didn't have to.
We can, obviously, strike better trade deals with the trading clout of a country of one rather than that of 28. It's well documented that Dave's Mini-Mart gets superior prices at the distributor than Tesco which is why everyone does their monthly shop there.
We get our 'iconic' blue passports back that we could have changed at any time, replacing the burgundy that we chose with the blue that was imposed on us by the League of Nations.
Let's give more money to the NHS! We're not actually going to, but let's!
One I heard just today, there's a housing crisis. Because, erm, the EU mandates that we can't build houses?
Something about fish that no-one gave two shits about until it came to light as a potentially handy argument. MOAR HERRING!
Have I missed anything?
As for the NHS being sold off, when I go for my CT scans its with a private company through the NHS, So my question is, has privitisation not already happened and why is it such a bad thing? Tax payers do actually pay for the NHS.
That’s a great question but certainly needs a thread of it’s own. Maybe (and I mean this kindly) have a step out of your own ‘echo-chamber‘/look at some differing/wider evidence, then begin a thread about the subject? I’d be happy to contribute as the matter has and continues to have an enormous and now inescapable effect on my life and that of my family and I care that it doesn’t happen to others/improves rather than gets worse. Recommend to give this a watch:
sovereignty, taking back control, making our own decisions, no more unelected bureaucrats
Some would say these are benefits
Not sure if serious. But let’s do these one at a time.
So where are all these trade deals that the world was supposed to be queueing up to sign?
We've got five months, oh yeah, it was all bollocks wasn't it.
No more unelected bureaucrats…
Hi...
Some would say these are benefits
Yes, we know these people as 'morons'
Unfortunately what we’re heading for will make the breakup of the UK much more likely, and I suspect Dougie, a United Ireland much more likely too. So it rather looks like you at least won’t be getting rid of the EU any time soon. Sorry about that
I dont see a UI in my lifetime, I cant see it happening without a devolved government in the north anyway. I do agree N.I will most likely remain under EU regs after the 5 year period.
I do agree N.I will most likely remain under EU regs after the 5 year period.
Yet another thing to add to the list of things we were solemnly promised by the Brexiteers would absolutely, definitely not be happening
I believe Boris's exact words were "no British Prime Minister would ever agree to do such a thing"
About five minutes before he did indeed agree to do such a thing
dougiedogg
Member
sovereignty, taking back control, making our own decisions, no more unelected bureaucratsSome would say these are benefits
But they aren't because:
We always had sovereignty: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-white-paper-uk-parliament-remian-sovereign-eu-membership-referendum-campaign-brussels-article-a7559556.html
Taking back control of what? What control did we not have, that we will now have? Real examples of situations where we had no control, but now we do that will actually benefit us? I can't recall seeing one?
Making our own decisions....again, see above. What decisions could we not make that we could now make independently? And how would we do them differently now? Real examples of real decisions and how we would do them differently now?
Unelected bureaucrats....this has always been a nonsense throwaway tagline to get the gammons frothing. We have always had elected officials as our representatives in the EU:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/en/european-elections/european_elections/the_voting_system.html
What does the armco signify?
Are you asking what Armco is, or it's relevance in the analogy?
Some would say these are benefits
Some would indeed. But they'd either have to not have paid any attention to any discussions in the last four years where we've explained over and over and over why everything you've just listed is a nonsense, or be an abject moron.
---
Because I've had this argument time and again.
"I want brexit because [reason]."
"But [reason] doesn't exist / is a lie / won't be fixed by brexit / we can have anyway / etc."
... at this point you can do one of two things.
1/ A wise man goes "oh, I didn't know that, thanks" and revises their opinion in light of new information. (A particularly wise man will first fact-check this new information, but we all knew that, right?)
2/ An idiot doubles down. The flow chart here then splits into three. In order of likelihood: they don't engage and change the subject; they get angry and abusive; or they go silent and disappear (often to resurface days later with the same discredited argument).