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Bojo cancelled today's visits because apparently a family member has tested positive 😉
I wonder if a side effect of all this will be the Libs edging slightly to the right. They've traditionally done well picking up voters who, can't vote for their usual party, but can't quite bring themselves to vote for "that other lot".
Arguably they already have in recent years P-Jay. And dabbled in a bit of “freedom” fighting as regards pandemic measures.
I just ran those poll numbers through a swingometer and even with a 10% Labour lead it still puts them 15 short of a majority. How ****ed up is that?
So, do we think Van-Tam is bowing out for a quieter life now he has his knighthood, or is he about to stick the boot in as well?
I suspect he is tired of working with the clowns but has better things to do than join the bun fight.
Well she has and its SNP policy – so once again your knowledge is lacking
Clearly, do point me in the direction of this policy
the Zahawi interview with Peston is pure gold.
Zahawi lacks any plausibility or coherence, and comes across as a total POS. What a crock.
How convenient for Johnson - a "family member" has tested positive. He does not have to isolate ( so presumably not an actual contact) but he is going to follw the advice not to travel so he gets out of a q&a session
the man is an unbelievable fraud
Mogg and Gove dismissing Ross as a lightweight or "In Elgin not London" will go down well north of the border.
North of the border has never really interested the Tory party, apart from land ownership, same with across the water and Ireland. The use of dismissive terms is all part of the nationalistic BS that JRM loves
How convenient for Johnson – a “family member” has tested positive.
Could be any one of an unspecified number of ex-wives, mistresses or children...
What I'm struggling with, is how on earth BoJo's press sec / PR gurus thought yesterday was a good idea. Clearly it was a planned statement, it wasn't completely off the cuff. Did he just balls up the plan which was for a sincere apology, failing because he's an oaf who can't admit his fault?
I genuinely think if he'd just owned it, he'd be fine. As it stands, he's taking the public for mugs.
Could be any one of an unspecified number of ex-wives
I didnt think any of them were still speaking to him outside of via a lawyer.
Its clear why he cant attend though. Its not that he is hiding but he needs to concentrate on organising a final work meeting for Van-Tam.
What I’m struggling with, is how on earth BoJo’s press sec / PR gurus thought yesterday was a good idea. Clearly it was a planned statement, it wasn’t completely off the cuff.
If he had admitted it was a party and he attended knowingly then he has just admitted to a crime. a crimwe for wich others have been fined
So he had to make an apology without admitting criminal wrongdoing
Only on one condition, and Labour would never agree to it.
They're not going to vote against Labour and as I said to someone yesterday, both Party's sit on the Opposition Benches.
Labour don't need the Scottish seats, but what they do need is few/none in Tory hands.
He seems to believe he is the victim.
I said that yesterday. You could see that, far from any genuine contrition (which I doubt he's actually capable of), he had a look on his face that said 'why is everyone picking on me?'
Its patently obvious that he doesn't think he has anything to apologise for. He's 'world king' after all, and answerable to nobody
He seems to believe he is the victim.
I said that yesterday. You could see that, far from any genuine contrition (which I doubt he's actually capable of), he had a look on his face that said 'why is everyone picking on me?'
Its patently obvious that he doesn't think he has anything to apologise for. He's 'world king' after all, and answerable to nobody
Yup - he is incapable of understanding he can do wrong. same as Trump.
What I’m struggling with, is how on earth BoJo’s press sec / PR gurus thought yesterday was a good idea. Clearly it was a planned statement, it wasn’t completely off the cuff. Did he just balls up the plan which was for a sincere apology, failing because he’s an oaf who can’t admit his fault?
I genuinely think if he’d just owned it, he’d be fine. As it stands, he’s taking the public for mugs.
I've been thinking the same.
I guess it was the 'least worse' option for him. The backbenchers and party donors all but gave him an ultimatum. Apologise or we'll force a VONC. So he had to do it. But their goals aren't aligned. Johnson knows an apology is, of course, an admission of guilt, and in his position should mean an immediate resignation, but this is Johnson the super-Tory. He only cares about No1 so there's nothing in it for him to resign, so he gives a crap, sort-of, apology to buy some time to try to get his party back on-side.
I think he's a dead man walking really, but as long as there's a chance, he'll hold on, because it's more important to him to keep his job today than worry it again next election. The Tories though, seeing the polls and knowing about the troubles that lay ahead (inflation, energy crisis, labour crisis etc etc etc) will want to reverse those polls double quick to give them the best chance to survive the next GE.
It's his selfishness and blind arrogance that will sink the Tories.
the "crisis" management @ number 10 has been appalling from the start of this, even the "wait for the inquiry line" is going to backfire on them because the leakers with hold stuff back now till a few days after and torpedo them again. What you didn't tell them about this other party you attended tut tut.
Covid or Coup? Is he isolating or is he not allowed out as appearing in public will cause more damage?
He only cares about No1 so there’s nothing in it for him to resign, so he gives a crap, sort-of, apology to buy some time to try to get his party back on-side.
There was an analysis on the speech yesterday by a Linguistics Professor, she did a thread on Twitter about it (can't find it right now) but it was very carefully worded. You're right, it was a non-apology of the "well I'm sorry if you feel that way" kind implying that you're wrong for feeling that way about what he's done. However, behind it all was a very careful effort not to admit to any wrongdoing.
Thought you just had to do LFT if close contact?
As crazylegs says up there ^^^^^ The Tory party really is a sack of rats. They will bite, claw, and infight their way to the top of the sack, using each other only to further their own goals and ambition to be king rat.
The three rules of being a Tory MP is:
1: Look after No1.
2: Look after those who look after No1.
3: Remain in power.
King Rat has now backed himself into a corner and is surprised that the other rats are behaving like rats.
Thought you just had to do LFT if close contact?
But he hasn’t got any LFTs because you can’t get any LFTs. I wonder if that was the plan all along. Oh, damn………
Interesting Rees Mogg calling Ross a lightweight. Ross is a lightweight. However he does appear to have some backbone and morals so clearly unfit for the modern tory party.
Thought you just had to do LFT if close contact?
It is probably to err on the side of caution if you are going to go and hang around a vaccination clinic.
Then again its probably best not to waste everyones time by turning up for a photoshoot at all.
Questions guys:
Is there a cheap way to join the Tory party?🤢
Is there a limit to how long you need to have been a member method you can vote in a leadership election?
Cheers.
There is no cheap way. You have to sell your soul.
tjagain Full Member
In Scotland we had the chief medical officer resign for visiting a holiday home ( needed a good push tho) we have an MP facing criminal prosecution for traveling on a train after a positive test – she clearly panicked and did a stupid thing
It would appear that she managed to be in that panic for about two days, including while she was speaking in parliament. From Wikipedia:
On 1 October 2020, Ferrier made a public statement apologising for serious breaches of COVID-19 regulations. On 26 September, she first noted symptoms of COVID-19 and took a test. On the same day as taking the test, she visited a gym, beauty salon and a gift shop.[14][15] While waiting for the results, having COVID-19 symptoms, Ferrier took a train from Scotland to London, on 28 September, and spoke in a parliamentary debate that evening.[16] The same evening, she received a positive test result, but returned to Scotland the next morning, again by train, having told her party whip that a family member was unwell.[16] Following her public statement, Ferrier was suspended from the SNP, and referred herself to the police and the Parliamentary standards authorities.[17]
She's had the SNP whip withdrawn but continues to be an MP, the assumption being that she's trying to hold on until the next general election at which point she'd qualify for the MP's pension. Apparently her constituency office has been unstaffed for a very long time now, oddly it appears that nobody's willing to work for her. Her constituents won't be able to recall her and kick her out unless she is finally convicted when she goes to trial in August.
In conclusion, I wouldn't really recommend using Margaret Ferrier as an example of honourable behaviour when caught breaking Covid regulations.
You can join the Scottish Tories for a nominal donation. 3 months membership before you can vote.
ChrisL - the point merely being she is being prosecuted - so the scottish legal system is working whereas in London the Met will not even investigate politicians
Anyone else noticed Johnsons face getting all puffy looking? he looks to me like has has been hitting the bottle hard these last couple of months. Beginning to actually look like an alcoholic
If the prick resigns today when would they choose the next scumbag?
VAnyone else noticed Johnsons face getting all puffy looking? he looks to me like has has been hitting the bottle hard these last couple of months. Beginning to actually look like an alcoholic
I put that down to him having covid- those 10 days he dissapeared over xmas and uploaded a few prerecorded vids where he looked horrendous- but was worried itd make him look even weaker infront of his covid denying backbenchers
dantsw13
Free Member
You can join the Scottish Tories for a nominal donation. 3 months membership before you can vote.
Thanks mate.
If the prick resigns today when would they choose the next scumbag?
It'll be a couple of weeks at the earliest, months more likely.
If he resigns, and he'd have to be forced I think, it can start straight away, but if they force a VONC is takes longer and, he could, win that. If he does he can't be touched for a year.
Rumour (Twitter) has it that there are already enough letters to force a VONC, but that only takes 15% of Tory MPs, they need 50% in the actual vote for him to go, and as above, if he doesn't lose that (as in the case of Theresa May) he's safe for a whole year.
Assuming his loses the Vote of No Confidence, then he'll probably stay on as PM until the next one is appointed. The Tories vote twice a week in a knockout contest until there are only two candidates left, this caused all sorts of drama last time, because the non-Brexity Tories tried everything to stop Boris getting into the last two. It'll likely be Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak
Truss is 'pragmatic' when it comes to her Political beliefs, she grew up in a Guardian reading, middle-class Leftie family, became a Lib Dem in Uni, joined the Tories under CMD and was a remainer, then switched to the right and a hard-nosed Hard Brexiteer under Johnson, or perhaps she'll just do, or say anything to get ahead, so she's a real Tory.
Sunak is another odd one. He's a 2nd gen immigrant to the UK, but expensively educated and is married to a billionaire. Whilst Truss appeals to the 'little Britain' Tories, Sunak appeals to the greed is good, free market economy Tories. Low taxes (especially for the Rich) and low public spending.
I think Sunak will appeal to MPs and Donors and will find it easy to get into the final two, but Truss is far more palatable to the Party members.
I put that down to him having covid
There are lots of rumours about his fondness for alcohol.
Sadly he seems to have looked at Churchill as a role model but somehow lost all the positives and just doubled down on all Churchills faults.
I think Sunak will appeal to MPs and Donors and will find it easy to get into the final two, but Truss is far more palatable to the Party members.
Do the tories have to go on a different tack if they choose Sunak? They can't stick with all this populist nudge-nudge-wink-wink racism that seemingly appealed to the Brexit voting morons / 'Red Belt' northern seats. I can't see a brown billionaire having the same appeal!
On that basis, I quite like the idea of Sunak bringing us away from this populist ideology. He's probably a more dangerous man, though.
If the prick resigns today when would they choose the next scumbag?
No way will he go of his own accord. They'll have to drag him away from his Lulu Lytle wallpaper, kicking and screaming
The Torys will let him carry the can for the election losses in May, then he's toast.
There was an interesting comment made by a Tory MP when asked who's likely to succeed him, he immediately snapped back 'well it'll be none of the present frontrunners', which I thought was interesting, but not surprising. Boris was inevitable, May was a coronation but prior to that the Torys have not elected a frontrunner and have gone for someone leftfield. Nobody had even heard of David Cameron, remember.
I put a bet on Truss (3/1 - joint favourite with Sunak) a while back but looking at the odds Oliver Dowden was 4th favourite (15/1) and I thought that that was just the kind of weird and perverse thing the Torys would do
There are lots of rumours about his fondness for alcohol.
There was an amazing exchange on Have I Got News For You a couple of years ago. Possibly with Miles Jupp.
Jupp: So the question we all want to know about Boris Johnson. <pause>. Is he an alcoholic?
Baroness Warsi: Erm... <looks panicked> .....he......the.... <agonisingly long silence> ....I don't really know him very well. I wouldn't know about that.
I put a bet on Truss (3/1 – joint favourite with Sunak) a while back but looking at the odds Oliver Dowden was 4th favourite (15/1) and I thought that that was just the kind of weird and perverse thing the Torys would do
Might be a late charge down the far-right from Gove or (God forbid) JRM.
JRM might be good for Britain, like the Royal Family bring in tourists. Make the whole world think we're weird toffs who call their children with a whistle.
No way will he go of his own accord.
I'm not so sure, He's often said that he doesn't enjoy the role as much as he thought he would. He's drowning in debt and can make way more money outside of politics, and the constant onslaught will stop. Even if he doesn't quit, I'm not sure he'll need much of a push.
What are the odds on Jeremy Hunt?
Edit - They are shortening...He is the only logical choice to unite the party
He’s often said that he doesn’t enjoy the role as much as he thought he would.
Presumably when he thought the role would involve a load of free dinners with dignitaries, a few all-expenses business junkets, some handshakes and some opinion pieces about what a wonderful leader he is...
Rumour (Twitter) has it that there are already enough letters to force a VONC,
That's huge news if true, where are you hearing that?
Presumably...he thought the role would involve
Pretty much, I certainly don't think his plans involved any like the hard graft that COVID required certainly, as we can all see from the utter shit show that he's presided over. Every single assistant or advisor who's ever spoken about it has said time and again that Johnson isn't and never has been a "details" man, he doesn't enjoy the work of policy making or weighing alternatives, deciding campaigns or having to make critical decisions. I can't imagine for a second his dreams of World King ever involved this.
What are the odds on Jeremy Hunt?
Present odds for the runners and riders:
Rishi Sunak - 3/1
Liz Truss - 4/1
Michael Gove - 7/1
Jeremy Hunt - 9/1
Oliver Dowden - 15/1
Priti Patel - 15/1
Sajid Javid - 15/1
Odds for Boris being gone before the end of the year are 1.5/1
Odds on Boris not being leader by the next election are 1.4/1
What are the odds on Jeremy Hunt?
All depends on whether Brexit is behind us or not (spoiler, it’s not). If there is a leadership election next year, I’d bet good money on him. This year? No chance… to much “real Brexit” noise for MPs and the membership… Truss knows this, it’s why she’s working so damn hard to cleanse herself of any public signs of reasonableness towards our neighbouring countries.
I think Sunak will appeal to MPs and Donors and will find it easy to get into the final two, but Truss is far more palatable to the Party members.
~thats my reading - those would be the final two and Sunak is too brown for the memvbership
Do the tories have to go on a different tack if they choose Sunak? They can’t stick with all this populist nudge-nudge-wink-wink racism that seemingly appealed to the Brexit voting morons / ‘Red Belt’ northern seats. I can’t see a brown billionaire having the same appeal!
Same play - look at Patel- even more anti immigrant anyone else. The tragedy for these tories who are children of immigrants and are a bit brown is that no matter how racist and anti immigrant they are they will never be loved by the membership
The thing that really bugs me about this whole thing is that if you'd have asked me in May '20 if I thought that they were having BYOB parties in the garden at No10, I honestly think I'd have laughed at the suggestion, because it's just too preposterous that even the Tory party could be that disingenuous that soon after telling everyone the rules, and pointed out how pissed off all of them looked when they were forced to defend Cumming's trip to Durham.
Thinking back, I remember having difficult phone calls with my partner (we lived separately at the time) and trying to work out if we could meet up, and deciding that it really wasn't the right thing to do. I know it's not the same as losing loved ones, but we didn't see each other for about 8 weeks I think it was...
He hasn't got form for resigning, in the past he's always been sacked. He doesn't explain or apologise. I read a journalist who'd been around him a lot describe how he drinks in a determined 'on a mission' fashion. He looks like he returned to his BMI of 35 pretty quickly after hospitalisation. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a gasp on an oxygen mask to sort out his hangovers. Starmer looks pretty jowly too.
I wonder how Carrie is taking all this?
I expect she's suffering from buyers regret
The thing that really bugs me about this whole thing is that if you’d have asked me in May ’20 if I thought that they were having BYOB parties in the garden at No10, I honestly think I’d have laughed at the suggestion, because it’s just too preposterous that even the Tory party could be that disingenuous that soon after telling everyone the rules,
Errmmm - we knew at the time the tories were not following the rules and had known since the beginning of the epidemic. the idea that they were having illegal parties was hardly farfetched. Multiple instances of Tories not thinking the rules applied to them before this
Do the tories have to go on a different tack if they choose Sunak? They can’t stick with all this populist nudge-nudge-wink-wink racism that seemingly appealed to the Brexit voting morons / ‘Red Belt’ northern seats. I can’t see a brown billionaire having the same appeal!
Same play – look at Patel- even more anti immigrant anyone else. The tragedy for these tories who are children of immigrants and are a bit brown is that no matter how racist and anti immigrant they are they will never be loved by the membership
Todays Racists aren't like their 70s and 80s predecessors, they love nothing more than a Brown person who is completely anglicized, but like I said above, Sunak won't be their Man, he's the ruthless capitalist type of Tory, not the frothing at the mouth, living in the past, 'stiff upper lip' type of Tory. Truss is a pastiche of their rose tinted memories of Thatcher (who, ironically was far more Sunak than Boris) and probally seen as Johnson 2.0.
Rumour (Twitter) has it that there are already enough letters to force a VONC,
That’s huge news if true, where are you hearing that?
Sorry, I can't find the bloody tweet now, but it was a 'blue tick' Westminster jurno. I've tried searching for it, but obvs if you search for 1922 or VONC today you get the 'phonebook' back.
The 'vibe' amongst the Political twits is that before yesterday there were a lot of backbenchers in marginal seats looking at the polls and making noises and the various players who want the job had their teams and backers organising behind the scenes, but PMQs was a disaster and now they're starting to unite into a more organised group for various reasons, but if nothing else, there are currently around 150 Tory MPs in Westminster, who, if an election was called tomorrow would likely lose their jobs. It only takes 54 of them to put letters in to force a VONC, but, for Boris to actually be forced out, they need 181 votes and if they miss that target, he can't be touched for a year, which would be too close to a GE to risk removing him unless it's obvious they're going to lose.
P-Jay - that may be true in general but these tory party member ARE the 70s and 89s racists IMO So I think you would be right about the voters in general perhaps - being brown would not cost them much but among the membership? I think being brown will cost that person significantly
Errmmm – we knew at the time the tories were not following the rules and had known since the beginning of the epidemic
well that's not my recollection tjagain, and I can remember the sense of public outrage when it was revealed that Cummings broke the rules, even my then Tory MP was angry about it How come there was some much anger at the time if "we knew at the time" that "tories were not following the rules" ?
I expect she’s suffering from buyers regret
I expect she'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming from her recently redecorated flat but I also bet that she's got the divorce papers lined up and she'll know where the money is squirrelled away (or which donors she'll have to be nice to in order to obtain a payout).
Nickc
There had already been multiple instances of them not following the rules and making ridiculous excuses before that. Their attitude to the rules and the law was obvious well before Cummings and Barnard castle
Jenrick was one
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/10/robert-jenrick-urged-explain-visit-parents-during-lockdown
Tobias Ellwood was another
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55343187.amp
Then there was Stanley Johnson - several breaches for him. Not totally sure of the timelines
Neil Ferguson tho not a politician was another
Your memory's better than mine, I'd forgotten about these. Although, these are individuals, not BYOB parties eh?
Yes but their cavalier attitude to the rules clearly went right thru the tories. rules are for little people. Remember Johnson right at the beginning being proud of being maskless and shaking hands with covid positive patients?
Also the way they all leapt to the defense of "honest Bob" Jenrick? He kept his job after multiple clear breachs of the rules with a really poor excuse. At that point it was obvious they had no regard for the rules at all.
The Tories have spent the last 5 years furiously blowing the racist dogwhistle in order to successfully absorb the former UKIP voter base, which was fundamental in delivering the 2019 landslide.
Sadly (From a State of the nation perspective) I do suspect that for every voter they win back with Sunak, one will run crying back home to Uncle Nigel asking him to 'make the nasty brown person go away'.
Nige's fags, booze and divorce settlement fund is clearly running low so he'll be loving it.
Make the whole world think we’re weird toffs who call their children with a whistle.
Ah yes. Withawhistle Bewowulf Flangetrumpet is one of Rees Mogg's isn't he?
Sunak is too brown for the memvbership
I'm not so sure. He might be for some but I think most of the racists will play the 'Oh not you, you're ok, it's the rest of them' card. This is how they remain racist in the face of all rational argument. I don't think there as much 'brown people are bad' style racism around these days, it's more a general sense of 'otherness' that is the problem - and Sunak could easily prove that he's one of them i.e. a True Tory.
Boris Johnson is unlikely to be seen in public for the next week after a member of his immediate family tested positive for Covid, Downing Street has said. While self-isolation for contacts of coronavirus cases is no longer mandatory, Johnson’s spokesman said the prime minister would heed guidance to limit outside contacts as much as possible for seven days after the test.
How very convenient for him - thats next weeks PMQs included of course
So we have hiding in a fridge, lying down in his car to avoid being seen, refusing to answer the urgent question in the house and now this? the man is laughable
So we already could safely call him a racist, a liar and a philanderer as all are true. We can now add to that coward
Will Carrie get to keep the new wallpaper when they are kicked out?
I wonder how Carrie is taking all this?
My guess is she'll bide her time, wait until he's been booted out and signed a couple of lucrative book/newspaper deals then take him to the cleaners..
I’m not so sure. He might be for some but I think most of the racists will play the ‘Oh not you, you’re ok, it’s the rest of them’ card. This is how they remain racist in the face of all rational argument. I don’t think there as much ‘brown people are bad’ style racism around these days, it’s more a general sense of ‘otherness’ that is the problem – and Sunak could easily prove that he’s one of them i.e. a True Tory.
Had an interesting conversation over Christmas with Indian friends of ours who've lived here about 15 years.
They reckon Britain isn't ready for a brown PM and the Tories won't risk upsetting their base with Sunak in the big chair.
They both work in Finance and reckon Sunak would be the best candidate though.
So even though Johnson apologised and was definitely sincere he told MPs afterwards that he hadn't done anything wrong. What a massive surprise.
"They both work in Finance and reckon Sunak would be the best candidate though."
Socialists are they? Thought not! Sunak is the candidate for the rich who want to stay rich and get richer
Sunak would appear to have more than 2 brain cells and be reasonably competent. Of all of that shower he would probably be the best candidate for sure and the most dangerous to labour
I mean look at the competition. Not one of them I would trust to run a bath. Sunak at least might be able to find the plug and the taps
Would sunak be less open to corruption given that he's already obscenely rich?
Disagree. The problem with wealthy banker types is they project a false air of confidence, they have very little periperhal vision and they totally misunderstand risk. A good chancellor (even if Sunak is such a thing) rarely makes a good PM. He has no political breadth of experience having only been elected in 2015 to back him up and I'm not even sure he is as bright as people make him out to be.
Boris should be OK for PMQ next week if the new 5 days isolation period Javid announced applies to him. Or maybe it will be revised back up again by the weekend
JRM trying to destroy relations between westminster Tories and conservatives in Wales now as well I see
Winston - being the best of a bad bunch does not make you good 🙂 I mean really Truss? Gove? Hunt?
But my money is on Truss.
I’m not even sure he is as bright as people make him out to be.
First from Oxford, MBA from Stanford, and a Fulbright Scholar would suggest he's not stupid though