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No need for dismay. Just enjoy it as a sign of complete Tory desperation.
One thing I will absolutely guarantee is that Johnson will not pay that bill himself.
A new book is out detailing Johnsons time in office
I read this over the weekend - It's fascinating and gruesome at the same time. Seldon pulls no punches about how re regards Johnson's time in No10.
One thing I will absolutely guarantee is that Johnson will not pay that bill himself.
I think we can all be absolutely sure of that. Does he pay any of his own bills himself?
What baffles me is the people that carry on funding him and his lavish, ****less lifestyle. What do they think they'll get in return? And all these arrangements must all be purely transactional. I can't believe he has any genuine friends.
If he's shown anything its that there is only one character trait he possesses that has been consistent throughout his life... how untrustworthy he is.
Every single person who has invested any trust in him at all, personally, professionally or politically has been betrayed and thrown under the bus at the first sign of trouble, without a second thought. Somehow he always keeps finding the next rich, credulous mug to bankroll him
@nickc
Was there anything that truly surprised you,or did you mostly think,yup I always thought/knew he was that kind of human?
I almost picked up a copy,I was curious to find out if any of the key puppet masters and enablers were revealed.
And all these arrangements must all be purely transactional. I can’t believe he has any genuine friends.
I'm not sure. Seldon points out that one of his personal strengths is also one of his greatest political weaknesses. Once you're "on his side" he is loyal to the point of self-destruction. He will back you up even if the evidence says otherwise, which is fine for the average bloke on the street, admirable even. When you're the PM and your friends are sex pests, or taking money for dodgy political deals, or driving to Bernard Castle, not so much. Time and again Seldon points out that his first thoughts, his instinct (and often hand in hand with a really bad judge of character) -without regards to the evidence, is how he then behaves towards threats or challenges to that person.
The trouble Johnson has is that his friends, becasue of the way he himself behaves, are often the worst sort of ner-do-wells, scoundrels and arseholes.
@fashaggis, yep, just confirmed what I thought about him really. One thing that did surprise me was that I felt some sympathy for him, almost sorry for him. He's sort of delusional, and wholly unprepared for where his ambition drives him towards.
His political instincts (reform of social care, long term planning and an end to short termism, infrastructure spending on nuclear, and rail) are not wholly irrational, he just surrounded himself with either folks that are reformist, but destructive (Cummings) or politically opposite (Sunak, Rees-Mogg) and wouldn't do the work to either grip his party or force through what he wanted. That and was faced with challenges that he was wholly unable to manage; Brexit and Covid.
That cartoon sets off my anti-Semitism radar, but I can’t decide if I’m just being over-sensitive or not.
Totally passed me by too, and when I heard the 'row' I went for a look. I'm still of the opinion it's irrelevant.
Once you’re “on his side” he is loyal to the point of self-destruction.
An interesting idea - but to whom has he been so loyal? Not Cummings - he only had a job under Johnson for 16 months, and it was Johnson that pushed him out. Not his wives or girlfriends. Not his employers or publishers. Not his constituents.
but to whom has he been so loyal?
Cummings? Yes certainly, Seldon makes the claim that once the Bernard Castle fiasco hit the papers there were many at No.10 who saw it as an opportunity to get shot of Cummings whom they realised was ultimately utterly destructive, whereas Johnson was the one to keenly support him, largely because his own view was that Lock-down and rules about Covid didn't really matter, so what's the fuss all about? Same with Pincher, same with Patterson, he couldn't, or wouldn't recognise that their failures to be so serious that they'd need to be sacked over them.
So perhaps loyalty is the wrong word, perhaps it's more a Johnsonian version of loyalty where he can recognise his own habits and failures in the people around him, and excuses that behaviour in them.
Edit: and I think that ultimately the difference in your list, is that those people saw how Johnson's behaviour was disloyal and rid themselves of him, not the other way around.
The circus continues
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1661055950923481126?t=QJBhrJhDAg4nPcWkGoEIzw&s=19
Perfectly timed leak to coincide with a recommendation of 10+ days suspension, and hence a suspension/byelection? Any fuss kicked up by people saying its a harsh recommendation now drowned out by even more evidence of his wrong doing. Genius!
The circus continues
No, no, no, that's not the story you're supposed to be thinking about, there's the joyous* news that the oversexed honey monster has been shagging again.
*Other adjectives are available...
Quite honestly I'm surprised he can find the time although I admit that his lawbreaking antics frequently seem to combine several misdemeanours into one, presumably to save some effort.
Like partying, shagging and then lying about it all in one night. Must save considerable resources to do it that way.
The circus continues
MrsMC says she no longer cares, it's too long ago.
I need to speak to a solicitor about unreasonable behaviour.
More lockdown pissups revealed.
Sunak says he's not behind this - lie.
Johnson says it's just a witch hunt - lie.
I think Sunak has gone too early on cutting Braverman and Johnson down to size given the UK electorate and its goldfish-like memory and intellect.
But whilst the government gets all horny about fighting itself, I'd much rather have a functioning, competent government.
🤦♂️
Its an absolutely delicious irony that if he'd payed his own legal fees instead of getting us mugs to foot the bill, none of this about the Chequers piss ups would ever have come to light
Although now he wants us to keep paying the bills but just not have the cabinet office as the client.
Hopefully they will tell him to piss off.
Either he gets it paid for by the taxpayer and the taxpayer via the cabinet office gets to review it or he pays it himself (well I say himself more likely he will sponge it from someone anyway).
Its an absolutely delicious irony that if he’d payed his own legal fees instead of getting us mugs to foot the bill, none of this about the Chequers piss ups would ever have come to light
Yes, but we all know that Johnson was living day-to-day doing whatever was the easiest thing to get to 24 hours hence.
It's a true mark of his disdain for us that he couldn't even be arsed to plan properly for his lies.
But we elected him, so go figure...?
more likely he will sponge it from someone anyway
I hear Dodgy Dickie Sharp does a nice sideline in off the record financial advice.
This is nicely done:
https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1662003462886883330
And it's the critical point when you are dealing with habitual and casual liars like Johnson. The small lies, taken in isolation, seem trivial and not worth bothering about. But they point to a failure of character which will lead to bigger and bigger lies, about things that really do matter.
It is why 'character' should still be important when we are assessing politicians. If you lie to your spouse, or to your boss, you'll lie about anything.
Also, Guto Harri seems a bit washed up and desperate. He knows he pinned his colours on a moral black hole in Boris, and now he can't get free and faces oblivion. Shame.
I don't know who's done this for Newsthump, but its absolute genius
Bottom centre, is that Ginger Spice?
Bottom centre, is that Ginger Spice?
Nah that's Truss complaining that we took her budget the wrong way surely?
This is nicely done:
That is simply fantastic. Emily Maitless let loose is a thing to behold
Fab twitter thread #aweekintory
https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1662095954906865664
favourite quotes
"Iain Duncan Smith, a child’s drawing of sublime idiocy superimposed onto a competitively evil gonad
"Jacob Rees-Mogg, a zombie Jarvis Cocker made entirely out of string cheese
"Nadine Dorries – Johnson’s very own Greyfriars Bobby who has made it halfway to being an idiot savant
"Rishi Sunak, Britain's first known spine donor
made it halfway to being an idiot savant
🙂
Revelations coming in the Sunday papers about who was at Johnson's Chequers parties during lockdown
Meanwhile the fruitloops still loyal to Johnson are doing their best to trash the party for Sunak
https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1662516620722413568?t=CvgUn-V8rEmKS8WvluBStw&s=19
Once we have Blojo’s honours list out of the way an equally / more controversial one comes around the corner.
Rotten bastards.
I wish this lot had as much interest in their alleged day jobs - actually running the country - as they do with plotting and scheming against each other.
It’s actually all they seem to do nowadays
Apparently Liz Truss is about to re-enter the rats-in-a-sack race with a stint on GeeBeebies too.
You couldn’t make it up
https://twitter.com/dcbmep/status/1662518342064766976?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
Johnson has until 4 o clock today to hand over his communications and diaries to the covid inquiry
The cabinet office is saying it won't do so as they have deemed them 'not to be relevant'
The sheer arrogance of it that Boris Johnson thinks he should be the arbiter of what is and isn't relevant to a public inquiry?
Par for the course though. Did anyone expect anything different?
https://twitter.com/MarinaPurkiss/status/1663283335802568704?s=20
Johnson has until 4 o clock today
I don't think anyone thinks they'll be handed over today at 4 do they? Thing is, it would appear that Boris' diaries and WhatsApp appear to implicate the rest of the then government in failing to pay any attention whatsoever to the rules that they expected everyone else to follow, so I expect that the Tories will actually put up a pretty well co-ordinated campaign to make sure these don't get into the public domain.
I expect that they contain all manner of incriminating evidence of both rule-breaking but also biblical levels of incompetence, implicating pretty much everyone in government.
They know that this issue (rightfully) still causes genuine anger amongst the electorate and they're obviously desperate that this stuff isn't made public.
I don't know about you, but if I was conducting an inquiry and somebody was insistent that a tranche of evidence was 'of no relevance' and they were going to previously unprecedented lengths to stop me seeing it, I'd be suspecting thats where the bodies are buried
so I expect that the Tories will actually put up a pretty well co-ordinated campaign to make sure these don’t get into the public domain.
100% agree thetyll fight tooth & nail to keep it buried, they're being squeezed by general public on COVID incompetence & corruption as well as from the GBNEWS conspiracy clowns, who would otherwise be their normal fanbase
I don’t know about you, but if I was conducting an inquiry...
Indeed, the harder they claim that these should remain private, the harder I'd push to have them released.
Deadline extended to Thursday now...so even more time to delete/destroy or create more confusion and mince.
Well, it turns out that Tom was right again... if he was talking about what Johnson would be doing in the 2020s, rather than the UK population more generally...
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1204421063075123202?s=20
I expect that they contain all manner of incriminating evidence of both rule-breaking but also biblical levels of incompetence, implicating pretty much everyone in government.
They know that this issue (rightfully) still causes genuine anger amongst the electorate and they’re obviously desperate that this stuff isn’t made public.
I don’t know about you, but if I was conducting an inquiry and somebody was insistent that a tranche of evidence was ‘of no relevance’ and they were going to previously unprecedented lengths to stop me seeing it, I’d be suspecting thats where the bodies are buried
It absolutely stinks of a full-on cover-up being undertaken and it's so obvious they are doing so then the bodies that are buried must be either so numerous that it genuinely takes this long to bury them all or they really don't care that everyone knows it is what they are doing!
One thing that has concerned me though is that for every company I have worked for they have always had it in my contract that they have the right to inspect any correspondence that involves work. When requested it must be handed over promptly and that any correspondence should be done by work emails, phones etc anyway. How does this lot get away with having secret channels of communication that they can hide and lose/doctor? That alone smacks of incompetence, especially in the security services who protect them.
The cabinet office is saying it won’t do so as they have deemed them ‘not to be relevant’
Shame that decision isn’t theirs to make. There seems to be very little reason to withhold the material, the Inquiries Act is fairly clear cut on all of this.
Deadline extended to Thursday now…so even more time to delete/destroy or create more confusion and mince.
This is documentation already handed to thecpolice, isn't it? If they didn't have it, why have they fought scrutiny?
This has a mild End Of Days feel about it - we live in hope...
Being a bit dumb here. How do we know what is released is actually a proper log of the messages? They clearly don't come direct from the source. So is there an audit trail from WhatsApp that is cross checked. Or does someone just type them in Word and say yep, that's what was in the message?
Tories also now seem to saying its about personal privacy. Which I find a bit funny as the party who is pushing the Online Safety Bill.
The cabinet office is saying it won’t do so as they have deemed them ‘not to be relevant’
The cabinet office is also trying to say that they haven't kept all of them anyway as they don't routinely keep copies of private messages. It can't have it both ways, they've either seen the messages and judged them irrelevant, or haven't kept them and don't know if they're irrelevant or not.
It looks like they've finished destroying all incriminating evidence. From the Guardian just now...
Downing Street says there is 'no requirement to record every single communication'
Downing Street has said there is no requirement to retain every WhatsApp message after the Cabinet Office told the Covid-19 inquiry it does not hold all of the evidence requested surrounding Boris Johnson.
The prime minister’s official spokesperson said: “We do not permanently store or record every WhatsApp.
“The substantive and relative content, including decision making, is copied across to the official record in appropriate format for preservation.
“We wouldn’t, as is standard, retain irrelevant material. There’s no requirement to record every single communication for the public record.”
Sunak’s spokesperson added: “It is down to individuals to decide what personal information they are able to hand over, but there is a process for the government-owned material.
“There’s a distinction between government-owned material, that would need to be disclosed by the government, if it was their own personal information, then obviously they are able to make a judgment.”
Sunak and Johnson are also not meeting or due to speak this week, despite previous reports claiming they were due to do so.
Ahh, that kind of answers my question. What is being handed over is not WhatsApp messages. Its a record of some WhatsApp messages that may or may not be relevant to the running of the country depending on if the sender wants them to be.
Totally transparent 😉
Surely all they have to do is delete any dodgy messages from their account? Would only take a few minutes especially if it was done on the PC web app.
Then let them log in to your account on the web app and see the rest of the stuff.
And to think, poor old Dick Nixon had to listen to hours of himself ranting and raving to find the bits he needed to delete. Different times.
Then let them log in to your account on the web app and see the rest of the stuff.
Yeah, but then they would see the missing messages in a conversation and the other people involved in it and be able to get the conversation from them. Or, if it was criminal, request the logs and data from Meta which would show the timestamp, device and user doing the deleting. I'm not a lawyer, but that deletion of evidence during what is/might be a criminal investigation and after requesting the data, may be seen as obstruction of justice, which is a criminal offence.
That's leaving aside the use of personal communications channels for official government business to avoid scrutiny (which is against the ministerial code?) and the use of non-E2E encrypted services for official government business.
I'm not entirely clear why it's the Cabinet Office being held out here - they will only do what their political masters tell them.
The sensible thing would be for everything to be handed over to the enquiry unredacted and for the enquiry to redact anything that is not relevant. I mean, that's what the Official Secrets Act I signed is for, shirley.
I suspect that Boris's diary went:
14:00 Francesca
15.00 Svetlana
16.00 Valerie
Etc
Etc
The sensible thing would be for everything to be handed over to the enquiry unredacted and for the enquiry to redact anything that is not relevant.
Up until this gang of shysters arrived on the coat-tails of Brexit, I think most people would just assume that would be what happened with this kind of thing
Not any more. Now its the polar opposite. You just expect them to do everything in their power to ensure that that absolutely doesn't happen.
They don't do accountability
For good reason
The sensible thing would be for everything to be handed over to the enquiry unredacted and for the enquiry to redact anything that is not relevant. I mean, that’s what the Official Secrets Act I signed is for, shirley.
That’s not how a Public Inquiry works though. In theory if evidence is tendered to the Inquiry it will be held in public and / or published unless the witness requests redaction or secrecy and this is agreed by the Chair. Openness is the norm and redaction the variation - hence the name Public Inquiry. The bar for redaction is usually quite high, it is clearly explained in the act, and usually it requires the witness to show a real risk of harm - not it’s a secret or confidential or I don’t want people to know but why publication will cause real harm. The Inquiry team won’t know what needs to be redacted that’s why it is up to the witness to apply. The inability to demonstrate harm is also why Johnson et al are on a bit of a sticky wicket (IANAL)
Should we assume this goes way beyond Johnson now, and move this chat to the thread about the enquiry? Is there one?
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1663595047894372352?s=21
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1663596655260598292?s=21
[ non-Twitter link to article ]
Presumably as when we see their private WhatsApp discussions we'll realise just how Bunga Bunga this whole government really is. Any other country would have torched the Houses of Parliament by now...
Should we assume this goes way beyond Johnson now
Sunak and Johnson absolutely despise each other, as do their respective teams of toadies. They would do anything to undermine each other and never miss an opportunity to do so
Yet on this they’re in absolute unison. Rishi’s people are parroting the exact same line as the fly-tipped sofa and his nodding dogs. They’re as determined as he is to see this stuff isn’t made public.
That would suggest he’s as much to fear from this, if not more, than Johnson.
Why is this man still being touted as a possible electoral saviour?
Where are the worlds best Hackers when you need them?
I expect that they contain all manner of incriminating evidence of both rule-breaking but also biblical levels of incompetence, implicating pretty much everyone in government.
"incompetence & corruption"
Well nobody saw this one coming, eh?
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1663644656314335234?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
I think that women who are victims of rape have to automatically hand over their phones, if they want a prosecution to go ahead but Johnson gets to keep his?
Seems legit.
Well nobody saw this one coming, eh?
Nah its a complete surprise.
A bit like how "eat out to spread it about" likely contributed to a second wave. No one could have predicted that.
Or why fast tracking friends might have resulted in substandard PPE getting delivered.
It does seem that this refusal to divulge information and fight it legally is being driven by the present occupant of number 10, rather than the previous one
Its going to be interesting which of the many, many potential things it is that Rishi things could bring him down?
Its going to be interesting which of the many, many potential things it is that Rishi things could bring him down?
Snogging Matt Hancock in the office?
Johnson has played a blinder here - He's handed over the Whatsapp messages and notes to the Cabinet Office. They can't deny they have them anymore, and doubtless he's redacted the most incriminating ones for himself. He may be spiteful enough to hand over ones that will incriminate himself AND Rishi in a bit of vengeance for perpetuating his No.10 downfall
I can't stand Boris, but he does do shitbaggery at a professional level
Yup Johnson has shafted Sunak pretty spectacularly, with this U-turn (I also seriously doubt he's handed over it all)
https://twitter.com/HenryRiley1/status/1663950774286549009?t=Y0mLoLEG783XtvMYrzTGaA&s=19
Government by Eastenders plot line.
Outstanding.
But it is fine - as a nation we have got loads of headroom for this. I mean, it's not as if our economy is ****ed, standard of living on the skids and an international laughing stock. Otherwise, I'd be really worried.
🙄
With all the plotting and scheming, it’s like a medieval court
This one…
And it looks like Boris has done what he always does… stitched someone up. That today was a proper hospital pass. Build up the media outrage then wash your hands of it all, leaving Rishi holding the ticking time bomb
As has been noted, you’re never going to beat Boris Johnson at shithousery. It’s the only thing he’s good at, and he is truly ‘world beating’ at it
He’ll now retire to whoever’s multimillion pound country pile he’s borrowing this week and watch all hell break loose in his wake. Same as always
Without re-hashing what the chap has written today's David Allen Green blog-post is worth a read to see the sprung trap that the Cabinet Office has manoeuvred itself into. Senior Civil Servants are being invited to supply a truth testament on pain of perjury that they do not have access to the documents.
This to go with the previously stated failure to comply notice is a short trip to a criminal record. It's more exciting than an inquiry has any right to be.
Tomorrow could be very intresting, looks as if Boris has decided he has less to lose than "Eat out to help covid out" Rishi and his cabinet.
So once again the actual really important subject - the deaths of thousands of people during a pandemic - becomes a sideshow to the internal power struggles of the Tory party
Brilliant! 🙄
You might hope that they would dignify this process with a degree of decorum out of respect for the families of the bereaved, as that is what this is meant to be about after all, but no.
Far too much to expect, obviously. The clown circus rolls on, scoring cheap points against each other, without a care for anyone else but themselves
It really is just a ****ing game to them. They’re all sociopaths, with the odd psychopath thrown in for good measure
It's an interesting, and very sad game of 4D chess... apparently Borris has now handed over everything to the inquiry, namely unredacted whattapp messages amongst other comms.
Maybe he hates Sunak so much he's done a bluff, as if there are more damaging things in there it will reflect worse on the current government as a whole rather than him personally, if it was to all be made open.
Meanwhile, whilst the whole of the government are busy 1-upping each other and stabbing each other in the back, they have no time to do what they are actually paid (very generously) for, which is actually running the country.
Maybe he hates Sunak so much he’s done a bluff, as if there are more damaging things in there it will reflect worse on the current government as a whole rather than him personally,
Or he is just assuming that, as normal, the shit will slide off him and onto everyone else.
they have no time to do what they are actually paid (very generously) for, which is actually running the country.
Not necessarily a bad thing. Truss might not have even got to 20 days if it hadnt been for the queens death stopping her screwing things up earlier.
How can the inquiry be sure that johnson's data dump is complete?
Maybe it’s finally sunk in with the badly- tailored haystack that there is no comeback, no Phoenix from the ashes, his political career is well and truly done. Unless he fancies sitting on the backbenches scowling like Theresa May. Which he doesn’t, obviously. He’s never had any interest in anything other than self-service. Being a constituency MP listening to complaints about wheely bins? Yeah, right. I can see that happening
But as much as he’s a narcissist, he’s also a vindictive bastard. I wonder how many present or former ministers are now absolutely bricking it, wondering what it is exactly he’s handed over and how much shit they’re now in
They knew who he was when they voted him in. Surely they knew that they were all disposable and that he’d take them all down with him as soon as look at them
It’s going to be interesting seeing the drip drip of all the stuff they want to stay hidden.
At the end of the day Boris feels no more loyalty to the Tory party than he does to Liverpool FC, so it’s going to be interesting to see exactly what he’s just handed over
It’s an interesting, and very sad game of 4D chess…
Not so much 4D chess, more…
Carefull what you wish for...
Truss might not have even got to 20 days
Just imagine if Truss was still PM? (I'd rather not) but it would be cosmically catastrophic, I'm not saying the current line up is any good, at all, I'm saying we can always do worse.
How can the inquiry be sure that johnson’s data dump is complete?
I don't think we really can.
Especially once it's been parsed through the Tory/Sunak filter, they have too much to lose if there's anything juicy in there that implicates the current cabinate.
Boris may have played a master stroke with this.
I’m not saying the current line up is any good, at all, I’m saying we can always do worse
Remember those carefree, innocent days when we naively thought ‘Dave’ Cameron was as bad as it could get?
That worked out well, didn’t it?
I’m absolutely 100% certain that Suella Braverman is nailed on as next Tory leader. The only question is whether that’s as leader of the opposition or as PM. I’m going for the latter
Well we could have Labour:
Sir Keir wrote: “Express readers deserve their politicians to be clear about where they stand. So let me spell it out simply.
“Britain’s future is outside the EU. Not in the single market, not in the customs union, not with a return to freedom of movement. Those arguments are in the past, where they belong.
“But they also expect politicians to be honest.
“There is no point pretending everything is working fine. The paper-thin Tory deal has stifled Britain’s potential and hugely weighted trade terms towards the EU. Every day it isn’t built upon, our European friends and competitors aren’t just eating our lunch – they’re nicking our dinner money as well.”
source: https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1775780/sir-keir-starmer-labour-rejoin-eu-brexit
I'm sure Starmer would be a lot more sucessfull as a tory MP.
Yet we have people on this very forum saying things like 'if you don't vote labour, your'e just voting tory' in reference to lib dem voters.
So once again the actual really important subject – the deaths of thousands of people during a pandemic – becomes a sideshow to the internal power struggles of the Tory party
Brilliant! 🙄
The brexit debate in the media was also 90% the internal power struggles of the Tory Party.
Dear god, please don't let us go down another 'but Labour' or 'but SKS' rabbit hole. Not relevant here.
I know all this is supposed to be handed to the inquiry by later this afternoon, if it does when does that mean it'll start to become reported / available to the public, if at all. It's supposed to be a public inquiry, I imagine there are all sorts of taxpayer funded lawyers now looking at getting injunctions or whatever. If they disclose it at all.
I know all this is supposed to be handed to the inquiry by later this afternoon, if it does when does that mean it’ll start to become reported / available to the public, if at all
Not everything has to be published by the inquiry so for a lot of it probably not at all.
I think it will only start appearing when either there is an interim report or it gets used in a publicly available session (eg when Johnson or someone gives evidence and is asked to explain something).