I read an interesting article about what other foreign diplomats thought of Boris when dealing with him during his time as Foreign Secretary.
They thought he was totally useless.
The opinion of all the civil servants at the Foreign Office was that he was lazy, with absolutely no curiosity, no interest in detail, wouldn't even bother to read his briefing notes. His approach to everything was to 'just wing it'.
Great if you're Boris, not so great if you're Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe
^^ Yep, good points here but none of this posturing occurs in a vacuum, many people do put two and two together.
Despite his buffoonery, Boris is actually quite a good business man
How on earth do you come to that conclusion?
was that he was lazy, with absolutely no curiosity, no interest in detail, wouldn’t even bother to read his briefing notes. His approach to everything was to ‘just wing it’.
Sounds like you are describing Trump
He's pretty much identical in all his character traits to Trump, and he's playing exactly the same cards to get himself into number 10
Sounds like you are describing Trump
He's the british incarnation of Trump. Remember how we all laughed when Trump got elected? At least trump got elected against the wishes of his party. This will be the final nail in the coffin of the tories. First they gave us brexit to solve an internal argument, then they compound that by failing to deliver it, now they're going to impose an incompetent idiot as PM who will take us out with no deal (or not, as I think will happen). They're finished after this.
I can't remember which one of Gordon Browns aids it was who wrote about him. He said that he spent all those years plotting against Blair to get into number ten. Expanded all that effort, was constantly undermining him and felt a sense of entitlement to the top job
When he finally got it they all waited expectantly for him to detail all the things he was going to do now he was in the top job .... and waited ...and waited
Nothing. He had no plan. No philosophy. Absolutely nothing. His entire motivation was just that he wanted to be PM. And look how long he lasted. He staggered from one disaster to the next.
Given that Boris led the Brexit campaign that we all now know had absolutely no substance, 'not even a sketch of a plan', I imagine that when he gets the top job it'll be Gordon Brown x 1000
All his ego wants is for him to be able to play at being Winston Churchill for a bit. When faced with the reality and the responsibility of being PM I imagine that he'll unravel at a terrifying pace
All very amusing it will be to watch, but its hardly what this country needs right now
All his ego wants is for him to be able to play at being Winston Churchill for a bit.
Hence the no deal bravado. You can't be a Churchillian messiah without a national emergency to rescue us from.
but its hardly what this country needs right now
Maybe it is? I've always said the people get the government they deserve. The only hope is that it wakes people up to how they're being shafted. I very much doubt that will happen though.
I'm just hoping that Gove will knife him with some horrific revelation right at the last minute, hence Gove’s recent clear the air drugs confessions. It’ll have to be something absolutely amazing given that Cameron got away with skull-****ing a dead pig.
I’d be happier if he just knifed him though.
What really, really pisses me off are the Labour Party. Where are they when we need them? I can see the logic of letting the Tories burn the place down and Labour can then start again from the ashes, but in the national interest wouldn’t it be better to take the matches off the children in the first place?
What really, really pisses me off are the Labour Party. Where are they when we need them?
the Labour Party. Where are they when we need them?
Attending the national kebab awards dinner.
Doing a bit of gardening.
Catching up on the crossword.
Maybe simply having a mid afternoon snooze.
edit, binners beat me to it.
They've decided to take a leaf out of the Brexiteers book. If they're going to deliver Disaster Capitalism, why don't we opt for delivering Disaster Socialism?
the Labour Party. Where are they when we need them?
There are some great, vocal, useful people in Labour, some of them are good MPs who work hard for their constituencies and for the UK as a whole.
Unfortunately they're lead by a Man who is a devout Leaver, so the more Euroskeptic PM we get the better and also is willing to let us all suffer under Trump-Lite because he thinks it gives him the best chance of an early GE and winning, despite what the Polls say.
If I were a Labour MP or Member I'd be thinking very hard about whether I wanted Labour to be in Government to affect change or not. If I were an MP I'd be very seriously considering how bad the leadership would allow things to get to try to 'wake the public up' to how terrible capitalism is so they'll vote for a proper old-school Socialist as PM.
Max Hastings on Boris:
The whole point of Boris Johnson as PM is that he's a bumbling idiot that will lurch chaotically from crisis to crisis. That's exactly what Trump has done so well and I daresay exactly the sort of thing that Steve Bannon wants.
The fact that a once respected broadsheet newspaper has become little more than a Barclay brothers funded Boris Johnson op ed platform aimed squarely at Tory grandees should alarm anyone who cares about the state of the media. The Conservatives find themselves in an existential battle for relevance, they appear to have become a victim of their own success from 1980s and cannot offer anything of substance that's new that could possibly appeal to anyone but the over 65s who seem to want to cut taxes and simultaneously ensure that their bins are collected weekly.
they are the "I'm alright, Jack" party for an "I'm alright, Jack" country they seem well suited.
I watched the Letterman series on Netflix the other night (spoiler - don't watch the Lewis Hamilton one, he's a dick and it's rubbish). However the Jay-Z one is really good. Aside from coming across as very well spoken and just generally a nice guy, he made some valid points about Trump following a rant from Letterman on how terrible Trump is. Crux of this was that Trump being in power is a good thing as it exposes what the 'government' is really like. Previously you'd have a load of posh folk trained in the art of deception saying one thing (more money for everyone) whilst doing another (more money for me and my mates). With Trump, he's just as corrupt as the others (if not more so) but he's blatant about it. It's apparent to everyone that he's a 'bad man' (Letterman made the point that if you have to discuss if someone is racist, then he's probably racist) and that change is needed. The result being a much higher turn out for voting next time which hopefully will bring about some proper change.
I think in the UK right now, you have your hardened socialists voting, your retiree Daily Mail readers voting and probably some idiot right wing loons voting. The majority don't bother because they either aren't interested or feel that the voting won't make a difference. Stick Boris in power, what everything go to shit and I think you'll see much bigger turnouts come elections with hopefully some more sensible results.
For the record, I rank Boris up there with Piers Morgan on the list of people I'd like to fire into space...
A Jester! That does seem apt.
The really annoying thing is you know that Boris and all his mates have tons of cash so no deal / deal / ****ing box no 7 please Noel... Whatever happens is not gonna make one blind bit of difference to their lives or outlook. It's like a game to them where the only outcome will be... they might have to release funds from that other fund or sell off that asset instead of that one. 😡
Max Hastings on Boris:
The reference to being a "dazzlingly entertaining journalist" covers his time as EU correspondence where sadly he spent more time being "entertaining" than bothering with facts which would have required him to do his job properly.
Not that surprising though considering he got the job at the telegraph after being sacked for being a liar from the times.
anyone seen the Jonathan Lis Twitter thread:
https://twitter.com/jonlis1/status/1139067505094402049
the revelation that as foreign sec, BJ confided to at least 4 european diplomats that he supported freedom of movement.
The way it was buried, If Lis is to be believed, shows how slickly efficient his media supporters can react. With such a reckless, loose buffoon surely its the tip of the iceberg but if he's Bannon's guy then does it matter?
the way BJ is being handled feels like a right wing coup happening in front of our eyes
Boris will prove popular with Tory voters and he will still prove popular if we no deal brexit. He will slash tax rates to the middle classes, privatise more of the NHS, reduce NI rates and increase defence spending. These will prove wildly popular with around 35 to 40 percent the population, whilst the left will be stuck squabbling over whether they should enter a pact with the lib Dems.
The demise of the Tories is grossly overexagerated, Boris will get reelected if we have a hard brexit followed by a GE, we will have the Tories in power for another decade.
Johnson is not the buffoon he appears. He is a calculating self promoter. Everything he does is deliberate and intended to ease his route to power. He cares nothing for anything else
"the way BJ is being handled feels like a right wing coup happening in front of our eyes"
Why are you suprised at that?
If anyone saw channel 4 news last night with the elderly, comfortably off, white, male members of the Tory party being interviewed about Boris, they listed his various statements about letterboxes, bank-robbers, picaninnies and watermelon smiles and they all just shrugged and bid the 'oh well... that's Boris' thing.
Boris knows his audience and he doesn't mind offending other people as long as he's playing to his base, who will be nodding along with him as he's reflecting their attitudes and opinions
Agree TJ.
For that reason he will totally outflank Corbyn, when PM.
yep - put Boris to the party members and its a done deal.
I notice he has pussied out of the C4 debate. Not that I was going to watch it but it just adds to the carefully managed and well funded campaign that has been swung underneath him.
Just like the one that was swung underneath Cameron.
After he appeared on the last leg, adam hills described him as completely calculated. He purposely ruffled his hair, had a persona for the cameras and was clearly working to a script and agenda.
I think we should get politicians to debate whilst drunk to see what they are really like!
Given he won't be doing the Channel 4 debate, suggestions please of what he could be represented by?
1. Tub of lard (an old favourite)
2. Golden toilet
The “public” has no say in it. It will be decided by about .3 percent of the population. Whoever they choose from the current nominees is guaranteed the “top job” until a general election is called. Due to the Fixed Term Parliament Act that could be 2022
Those voting for the next Tory leader will no doubt be looking on who the public will vote for in the next GE - and someone being so blatant as promising tax cuts to the wealthy will not get too much backing.
Boris is not even the best of the bad bunch.
people always ask me the same question, they say, 'Is Boris a very very clever man pretending to be an idiot?' And I always say, 'No.'
The demise of the Tories is grossly overexagerated, Boris will get reelected if we have a hard brexit followed by a GE, we will have the Tories in power for another decade.
I hope you are not making the assumption that after a hard brexit the issue will simply go away. The tories will still need voters who want to remain in the EU for them to win a GE. Attitudes have hardened, and no matter what manifesto the party's bring forward for a GE, it will be fought over Brexit.
As for the demise of the party, there are a number of remainer tory MP's who are backing Johnson to be PM on the assumption that they can make him compromise when it comes to Hard Brexit. Its delusional at best.
[watch] everything go to shit and I think you’ll see much bigger turnouts come elections with hopefully some more sensible results.
Anyone who thinks from bad, things get better [more moderate], has a very poor grasp of history. (or a an ends justify the means stand point that would make even me blanche).
To dismiss Boris as a poundshop Trump I think is severely underestimating him.
Unlike Trump, Boris is quite clever, incredibly articulate and generally comes across as a loveable rogue. A wolf in sheep's clothing.
He'll get the backing of a good deal of tories and the working classes alike. Whereas Trump just repeats lies until they're believed, Boris is a masterful bullshitter. The political equivalent of a magician. And unless the media turn on him, most people won't know it's a trick. He's a dangerous man.
So basically he's Keyser Söze?
OK I accept he will almost inevitably end up in the final two and is then highly likely to end up PM in the short term at least. And I understand the Tories' logic for fighting fire with fire when it comes to the threat from Farage.
I think almost all the character assessments offered here are probably true of him too... dangerous, vain, obsessed with power, a buffoon (deffo), wily operator, clever (superficially), lazy, poor judgment, amoral, a nasty piece of work and a colossal bell end (in case nobody mentioned that one).
Boris is quite clever
No he really isn't, he is of the breed of classically educated posh ****s that people often mistake for intelligent because he knows a bit of Latin. He is of course full of self belief and takes credit for every fortune that an extremely lucky life has granted him.
What really, really pisses me off are the Labour Party. Where are they when we need them?
What would you have them do? I know what I'd like. I'd like all labour MPs to be promoting and advertising the massively popular policies they presented at the last election, and debating how they can be updated for the next one. So why aren't they doing that?
Boris is quite clever
The thinking mans idiot
The idiots thinking man
What would you have them do?
Anything at all would be a start.
Opposition - resistance or dissent, expressed in action or argument.
"there was considerable opposition to the proposal"
synonyms:resistance, hostility, antagonism, antipathy, enmity, objection, dissent, criticism, defiance, non-compliance, obstruction, obstructiveness, counteraction;
More
a group of opponents, especially in sport, business, or politics.
noun: the opposition
"the home team made short work of the opposition"
synonyms: opponents, opposing side, other side, other team, competition, competitors, opposers, rivals, adversaries, antagonists, enemies; literaryfoes
"the home team made short work of the opposition"
BRITISH
the principal parliamentary party opposed to that in office.
noun: Opposition; noun: the Opposition
"the leader of the Opposition"
Still... lots to be done on the allotment with all this recent rain
And to be fair to Corbyn, he's said he'll be happy to discuss any matters arising between now and then at the party conference in September, so job jobbed really.
Anyway... these runner beans aren't going to plant themselves....
Oh, I forgot to list probably his clearest defining feature - opportunist.
Unfortunately he's finally found his big opportunity representing a particularly unpleasant and destructive segment of the Tory party's support base.
I know what I’d like. I’d like all labour MPs to be promoting and advertising the massively popular policies they presented at the last election, and debating how they can be updated for the next one. So why aren’t they doing that?
because those policies will be put on the back burner while we spend the next decade trying to sort out Brexit
its why they also wont be that successful at getting Labour votes this time around
Boris is quite clever
No he really isn’t, he is of the breed of classically educated posh **** that people often mistake for intelligent because he knows a bit of Latin.
Intelligence comes in many forms, there are many clever people I also think are stupid for many reasons. He's very good at what he does, at engaging the people around him and twisting the truth.
Anything at all would be a start.
The labour party have been very active recently trying to get the no deal motion through parliament and fending off the Brexit party in Peterborough. Sadly most of the effort in the PLP has been expended with the usual display of MPs throwing their dummies out of the pram about Corbyn instead of having a go at the tories. The MPs need to follow the example of the rest of the party.
I’d like all labour MPs to be promoting and advertising the massively popular policies they presented at the last election
They can't. You can only have a giveaway manifesto if you're pretty sure you're going to lose. Labour could win the next election so anything in the next manifesto has to be fairly deliverable.
The MPs need to follow the example of the rest of the party.
Call for a general election? Be a bit antisemitic? Tweet some shouty soundbites? Deliver the 'will of the people'?
who's his pick for chancellor ? can't have promised it to any of the other candidates, Hammond will bring him down if he goes for no deal brexit.
Labour could win the next election so anything in the next manifesto has to be fairly deliverable.
Ha, you still believe that. We are past that stage now, just make up some vague stuff that voters like the sound of and job done.
Ha, you still believe that. We are past that stage now, just make up some vague stuff that voters like the sound of and job done.
I do. Cameron took the piss late in the 2015 campaign, but that was only because the polls suggested either he'd lose or be in coalition again.
Apart from that the manifestos of partys with a chance win are fairly sane and the small parties promise the moon on a stick. That's why if you do one of those online policy polls you always find your views most align with a small party, never with one of the two main parties. (Often small parties from completely different sides of the political spectrum being in your most favoured choices.)
He is intelligent and at times quite likable, just as Ted Bundy was.
It doesn't matter what labour do or say now. They get no airtime
Because I am not blinded by hatred of Corbyn I seek out and read stuff.
Last few weeks there has been a fair amount of good things said on things as diverse as child poverty, education, citizens rights,taxation and of course the attempt to take control of parliament to prevent the excesses of the right that fell because of labour mps voting against it
But of course it's all Corbyns fault
Also the posts on here are as ill-informed and deluded as much of the Internet. It's just become a Corbyn hating echo chamber.
I'd say that there's a lot more hatred directed towards the flytipped sofa we are all now resigned to being our next Prime Minister
Rather than hatred towards Corbyn, it's more a weary resignation that when faced with his new 'opposition' he'll continue being as useless and ineffective as he has been against May, thus making the day job of the self-serving mop considerably easier, as he's left to plough on, completely unchallenged, with god only knows what
Labour party member here. As much as i hate to say it, we need to lose Corbyn if we are to defeat Johnson and the Conservatives.
Hes a nice guy but he just comes with too much baggage for middle England to get behind him.
As much as i hate to say it, we need to lose Corbyn if we are to defeat Johnson and the Conservatives.
That's the problem. He'll never win a general Election as long as he's got a hole in his arse despite what TJ seems to think.
As long as Corbyn is the Labour leader, we'll have a Tory government, which is thoroughly depressing!
It doesn’t matter what labour do or say now. They get no airtime
That's because the leadership keep refusing to do interviews in the mainstream media. John McDonnell's the only one you hear and that's rare.
If the R4 Today Show could have Corbyn on every fortnight they'd bite his hand off.
Hes a nice guy but he just comes with too much baggage for middle England to get behind him.
Is he though?
He comes across as narrow minded and petty.
If only he was a genuine socialist like Tony Benn, rather than being a self centred career politician.
Have you not noticed the Tory MPs taking the piss out of grandad at PMQ's? Everyone knows the routine now. He mumbles all his usual rambling nonsense, then he has one or two 'soundbite' sentences where he does his shouty student thing.
He is now greeted with ironic cheers from the Tory benches and what I assume must be despair from those behind him. May even remarked sarcastically last week, when he did it, about 'having done your Twitter thing' - literally as soon as he'd done it. Because he does it every week
As far as he's then concerned, the social media team will edit the soundbite bit and tweet it out the all the sixth formers following him on Twitter and facebook. Never mind trying to get the message (whatever that is?) across to anyone else. Job done. It's all sorted.
And that's it... Jeremy's press and communication commitments are taken care of for another week and it's back to the allotment, with maybe a trip out to miners refuge in Barnsley for a Palestinian fundraiser
FFS!! Boris Johnson's team are desperately trying with all their might to keep him hidden from the press and the public. They've virtually locked him in a cupboard. And he's still more visible than grandad
They should have got him to follow Corbyn around for a week and they'd have been sorted. He's got being invisible down to an artform
If only he was a genuine socialist like Tony Benn, rather than being a self centred career politician.
I suspect you're being ironic but if not:
Wasn't Tony Benn on the right of the Labour party until he worked out he could create a nice cult political career for himself by going left?
In contrast Corbyn has shown no interest in a political career beyond being a back bencher. According to John McDonnell in the BBC Documentary just after he won the leadership Corbyn only went for the leader gig because it was his turn to be the token leftie leadership candidate (and John McDonnell had suffered a recent heart attack). They couldn't have predicted a victory for their wing of the party and if they'd known they would get past the PLP vote stage they'd have picked the candidate a lot more carefully.
<mod>
Thread drift, people. Stay on topic or lose it, please.
</mod>
Be a bit antisemitic?
Jesus man you sound like a daily telegraph sound bite bot.
I think I have my answer though to the question of what you want labour to do. Be on the telly and radio a lot by the sounds of it. Which is stupid because the leadership and general elections proved that Corbyn is strongest when he’s out talking to normal people in their communities rather than playing the silly Westminster media game.
In contrast Corbyn has shown no interest in a political career beyond being a back bencher
Which is his appeal. If Boris proves anything it’s that those who seek power are the least suitable to wield it. This isn’t yet accepted wisdom in this country but it will be after Johnson has done his work.
Johnson doubling down on unicorns. He apparently will be able to change the Ni backstop once pm.
He is going to do this by threatening no deal and to withhold the money we owe.
Is he a dag? (Aussie slang)
I would like to see a strong leader who will stand up for British values.... How about Prince Phillip for PM ?
I see questions are being asked about who’s funding Boris’s campaign.
Questions his team refuse to answer
How very Brexit
Arron Banks hedging his bets, via Putin?
Binners you're wasted here. Your ramblings are quite eloquent 👏
Just taking one point from there, so you’re cool with burqas?
Yep, presumably you are not – which is no surprise given all the other shit you post.
Wow, ok. I post shit? Coming from an inhabitant of a troll filled echo chamber, that really hurts!
Yeah well call me a Nazi but I'm with the women of Iran who risk their necks by going unveiled in public. We are talking about real fascism here. If you think it's shit perhaps you need to do a bit more homework. Saying "you write shit" might win you an argument in your school playground but if you are trying to argue with someone of opposing political views you need to be a bit more intelligent/eloquent, or I'm afraid you just sound like a knuckle dragging standard issue pond life.
I’m with the women of Iran who risk their necks
‘Course you are, yeah. Solidarity with the women of Iran, brother.
Course you are, yeah. Solidarity with the women of Iran, brother.
I was thinking exactly the same. I am sure the suppressed women of Iran feel ever grateful.
How are you showing that support grime. Have you burnt a burqa in your own #metoo show of unity?
his casual islamphobia, racism & homophobia aside Johnson has no plan for Brexit
but then neither do the rest of them
yet the Leavers somehow think that its going to better than it was with May
It’s fine. Don’t you worry your pretty little heads about this
IF THEY JUST TALK MORE SLOWLY AND MORE LOUDLY THEN JOHNNY FOREIGNER WILL GIVE US OUR CAKE AND EAT IT, RED WHITE AND BLUE BREXIT
Theresa wasn’t prepared to do this. Boris will.
They’ll fold immediately when faced with a mop-haired ****-wit with a gun at his own head
grimep seems keen to defend his islamaphobia, yet has no comment on his lack of a plan for brexit?
grimep is a complete troll, you won't be getting any plans or any discussion just more and more extreme posts trying to wind you all up.
<mod>
Thread drift, people. Stay on topic or lose it, please.
</mod>
Serious question: why are mods on here so active on this sort of thing and on vague thread duplication? Other forums of which I'm a member take a much more laissez faire approach to this sort of thing and the world hasn't ended. It sometimes feels a bit like being back at school on here.
JP
The format of this forum (with only two sub-forums) would result in the topic list being overwhelmed by duplicate threads. Keeping all similar discussion in one thread maximises the number of different topics on the topic list(s).
Plus, it just saves on unnecessary duplication, cross-posting and moderation.
Serious question: why are mods on here so active on this sort of thing and on vague thread duplication?
Turning that around: why do you need to have the same discussion in 17 different threads?
"Thread drift" was really the wrong term. There's nothing wrong with thread drift, it's a positive thing even. If this thread tangented off into the relative merits of African elephants over Indian ones it wouldn't matter. Rather, duplicate discussions will quickly gum up the forum (this is the reason paging posts aren't allowed) and it's generally preferable to have comments on a subject all in one place.
You might argue "one duplicate doesn't matter" but if we took that view then all it would take is three celebrity deaths and the front page would be full of nothing else.
Other forums of which I’m a member take a much more laissez faire approach to this sort of thing and the world hasn’t ended. It sometimes feels a bit like being back at school on here.
No-one's stopping you using those forums instead, if that's what you'd prefer. In't choice brilliant!
Plus, y'know, it's tedious enough having "magic granddad" posts every third post in one thread, I don't think anyone wants that spilling over into multiple others too.
Thanks Cougar. I was about to say the same.
If this thread tangented off into the relative merits of African elephants over Indian ones it wouldn’t matter
Oh I know this one. Ian't it something to do with stall speed?
only when on a treadmill
Oh I know this one. Ian’t it something to do with stall speed?
Yup. African elephants have a much higher glide ratio. Bigger ears.
all it would take is three celebrity deaths and the front page would be full of nothing else.
Aye, imagine the chaos if Joe Cocker and Roger Moore were both to pop their clogs on the same day.