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That sort of rational thinking will never work with those who voted to leave the EU.
I hope those who voted for this mess are suffering for their decisions.
ANYWAY... I've an index linked pension is going to get a great big rise soon as its based on September's inflation figure. and thats going to be a whopper.
Ernie
Brexit has caused huge losses to the economy. Do you dispute that?
I couldn't give a monkeys if brexit caused the greatest catastrophic collapse of the British economy in history. The debate on whether the UK should be in the EU is over.
If you saw tonight's QT you will have seen audience member after audience member, including remainers, saying that it is time to move on and not remain obsess with brexit.
One of the reasons the Tories did so well last general election is because people were sick and tired of the issue and didn't want a second referendum. Nearly three years on from the general election people aren't gagging to go all over the whole brexit debate again.
Food banks are caused by right-wing government policies, the first one was opened 3 years after Tony Blair first became Prime Minister. Coalition gov austerity 10 years later gave them a huge boost. To link it to not being in the EU and "attitude to foreigners" is hugely dishonest. And even if it were true it is totally irrelevant as the decision whether to remain in the EU has been made. So any solution to the food bank problem will have to be based on the UK not being in the EU.
Apologies for Brexit coming up again, but we’ve had a day of politicians talking about Johnson’s legacy, on the day he promised he will resign… they all brought Brexit up as a positive. It’s not being ignored, and especially not by the people who promised to “get it done”… it’s all they’re going on about. Great, thanks, where are those lower prices and higher wages? Huge numbers of people in work relying on food banks is part of Johnson’s legacy and part of the debris he left behind him, as he used Brexit to further his own interests, since Cameron announced the “big debate” Johnson was so well prepared to take on.
Anyway, who’ll be at this Chequers wedding do? Party of the summer? All depends on how long he can cling on I presume…
I couldn’t give a monkeys if brexit caused the greatest catastrophic collapse of the British economy in history.
You can get in the sea too.. You nasty little englander.
Being out of the EU does make food banks inevitable.
Stop blaming brexit for everything.
Huh?
Did you miss a 'not' there somewhere?
One of the reasons the Tories did so well last general election is because people were sick and tired of the issue and didn’t want a second referendum.
Well, no, they were told that they shouldn't want one. Because how democracy works is that you have a vote and then everything stops otherwise WHY DO YOU HATE DEMOCRACY?!
If you saw tonight’s QT you will have seen audience member after audience member,
Question Time is of course well known for its lack of bias in choosing its audience.
How some of you repeatedly post with such unwavering self-belief that you’re experts on everything
So why not provide a counter-argument rather than whining?
I couldn’t give a monkeys if brexit caused the greatest catastrophic collapse of the British economy in history. The debate on whether the UK should be in the EU is over.
I very rarely rise to trolls but that statement is just complete and utter bollocks. The EU debate will never go away simply for the fact that we know what we have given up and ther will always be a section of the country that wants that back. As for not caring if the country burns to the ground financially? That's just purely inhumane.
We may eventually pull out of the nose dive that Brexit has put us in but the UK will be in a much less prosperous and influential position than it would have been had it stayed connected to Europe.
The truth is that no civilisation has ever flourished without freedom of movement.
The country didn't change, it just got older and we find ourselves dictated too by a tranche of retirees, who are asking those of working age to pull thwir socks up and make a go of it so their pensions will be paid and in order to do this they have decided to hold them hostage by limiting their options in a multitude of ways.
There simply isn't the energy in the country to make a go of it.
Full employmemt they say, yet the country has never been more miserable.
I can't remember a state of full employment in my lifetime, except in the Soviet Union and of course Comunist China. They had something similar in 1930's Genrmany I believe as well?.
Why is the Mail still supporting Johnson with a front page blaming the Party for making a grave mistake in outing him? Does he have a job lined up there rather than the Telegraph?
See the Mail is showing it's seesawing following - Thursday saying "Will the greasy piglet get out of this" todays front page "What have they done".
Well I for one am just glad that all the bananas are bendy now. Those destitute people visiting food banks can rest easy knowing that the bananas they’ve just been given aren’t straight.
A lot of people had an almost religious level of devotion to Boris and the cult of Brexit. They voted for him and him alone and feel very let down and angry.
I think the mail is trying to tap into that anger and sense of grievance by painting him as a victim. It's the fault of the woke / BBC / remoaners / labour etc. No contrition. No sense that he may have had a part to play in blowing it.
Presumably the benefit is that you can then direct that energy and anger towards opponents of Boris' legacy as the mail would see it, or in support of whoever the daily mail wishes. It's actually quite a scary prospect.
Entertaining podcast about Boris and the classics that he studied and used as the blue-print for his rise, and has echo's in his fall...Anyway, made for an interesting listen
https://play.acast.com/s/the-rest-is-history-podcast/205-the-last-days-of-boris-johnson
You need to get in the sea, along all the other brexiters.
Sod off labelling me as a Brexiteer. I'm totally anti; disgraceful decision that shames us and will see us worse off in so many areas. Right now at work my multinational workforce is scrabbling to see how we can maintain the multi year relationships built up with European partner organisations. Hate it and the people that voted for it. But it happened and it's very hard to reverse that now.
The argument last night was about "working people so poor that they have to rely on foodbanks, all because we’ve spent half a decade fixated on how much 52% of our population dislike foreigners" (my emphasis) from which people were saying that the trend was already there well before Brexit. It was. Fact.
I was just posting the figure on food bank usage to see if there is a remarkable uptick post brexit, and saying that I don't know if has shown yet. I don't know if it will, or whether it'll be masked totally by the CV19 outbreak first, and now the oil and Ukraine crisis. I'm not saying Brexit has no economic impact, which it clearly has.
I can be anti brexit but still post actual figures and debate them. The German FB usage is growing at an alarming rate but they didn't have the impact of Brexit, for example. The graphs above about the countercase model of the UK economy w/o Brexit, that's economy in general - what's the equivalent graph for Foodbank usage which is what my comments related to.
The debate on whether the UK should be in the EU is over.
I don't think that's the case at all. The event may be over, we're out and we're not getting back in again in a hurry, if at all but if you think the talking's done, then I think you'll find it's only just got going.
You know as Ernie is trying to point out there is a difference to the economy tanking as part of Brexit related issues and the effects of right-wingery economics on the deprived whilst being a member of the EU.
The neoliberal framework and trickle-down has not offered much up for the least well off irrespective of EU membership.
Being poor was always a problem.
Full employmemt they say, yet the country has never been more miserable.
That's because it's not full employment. Usual statistical manipulation.
The debate on whether the UK should be in the EU is over.
It really is not you know. In england maybe but not in Scotland or NI
Mordaunt … She should be the next PM so long as she can stand strong.
Have you right-wing nutjobs not done enough damage already to the UK & ordinary folk?
Must say it boils my pi55 when our 'friendly' immigrant wants to make the UK more like whatever basket-case country he 'escaped' from.
And food banks are a direct consequence of the actions of selfish, entitled voters. Same across the world - go to the US or any other 'liberal'/poor country and those that have climbed the ladder (even if it's just a step-ladder and/or the pure luck of been born into the 'right' family) want to pull it up, encouraged by those already at the top. They are literally what people have voted for.
Do we think Johnson will stand down as an MP at the next GE?
A couple of years of sniping from the back benches & maxing out expenses, snide column in the Torygraph
Certainly if the polls are looking bad for the Tories as they are now, he'd likely lose it.
I'm sure he'd be happy to freeload in the Lords
I just really think that he should be addressed forever as The Disgraced Former Prime Minister Boris Johnson
So why not provide a counter-argument rather than whining?
LOL, like that would make any difference. Even if it got a response itd just be drowned out by the ongoing tirade of unwavering opinions. The only sensible thing, assuming you can, is to just ignore every word typed by 'that' segment of posters and wait for someone else to post something informative. Which can be a fair bloody wait at times, especially if not much is happening out in the real world.
Either that or just disengage from the 'shouting of opinions' completely and talk about bikes or some shit.
Brexit is fundamentally incompatible with the Good Friday Agreement.
Break the GFA and you can add 5-10% onto already inflated prices overnight. The US will not do a trade deal and the EU will, effectively, impose sanctions. UK economy collapses (further).
Adhere to the GFA and you have, de facto, put NI outside of the UK. The DUP and their ilk will start to destabilise NI again. It probably won't take much to put us back 40 years.
There is a small mitigation in the second scenario in that NI businesses will (continue to) do excellent business exporting to the EU cheaper than their mainland competitors, but this will only benefit a few. I am mentioning it merely to acknowledge it - it is a side issue and won't make much difference at the hustings.
NI-EIRE is where Brexit will meet its Waterloo. Until many bits of it are undone there will not be political stability in the UK. The next Tory PM cannot magic a solution that preserves the hard brexit we currently have. They will continue to go down in flames as they try to reconcile the impossible. The flames won't be of their personal making (like Partygate, Pincher, Afghanistan etc), so the demise won't be as panto-esque. But repeated demises there will be until the UK accepts its true position in the world.
Brexit will continue to devour the Tories and their leaders.
There's a variety of opinions on here. If you can't see that you need to read a bit more carefully. Just trying to shut down challenging views by disparaging or insulting suggests a rather sad sort of conservative empty headedness.
Go on, do yourself a favour and find some evidence, an argument or a joke to engage or amuse people with.
Why is the Mail still supporting Johnson with a front page blaming the Party for making a grave mistake in outing him
Three random facts:
PMs when they leave office get a Resignation Honours list.
Dacre apparently really, really wants a Lordship or even just a knighthood.
Dacre has the mail dancing to his tune again.
The debate on whether the UK should be in the EU is over.
Don’t be silly. Inflation is running at a thirty year high. You can’t afford the energy bill this winter and prices are changing weekly, but your neighbour can buy a new car, enjoy an excellent Health health service and is not seeing their food bill climb. Your neighbour is in the EEA. Give it another year.
Sovereignty sells but you can’t eat it.
This 'care taker' cabinet is as bent as Boris' previous cabinet. I'm currently listening to James Cleverley on R4 continuously not answer questions, he simply won't answer the questions put to him. Oh but guess what, the only question he did answer was that he thinks Boris & Carrie's wedding party at Chequers on 30th July should be allowed to go ahead...
This ‘care taker’ cabinet is as bent as Boris’ previous cabinet.
Not a surprise really. Anyone with any dignity and honour should refuse and be trying to get him out immediately.
the only question he did answer was that he thinks Boris & Carrie’s wedding party at Chequers on 30th July should be allowed to go ahead
I dont have a problem with that. Replace him now and let him visit for the weekend.
Do we think Johnson will stand down as an MP at the next GE?
Yep. Of course he will, the idea of being a constituency MP would fill him with horror.
Yep. Of course he will, the idea of being a constituency MP would fill him with horror.
Whilst I suspect he will I am not sure it does. Doing the job properly would but thats never been something he has let get in the way of things.
I couldn’t give a monkeys if brexit caused the greatest catastrophic collapse of the British economy in history. The debate on whether the UK should be in the EU is over.
I very rarely rise to trolls but that statement is just complete and utter bollocks.
And claiming that food banks are the result of brexit and people's "attitude to foreigners" isn't trolling?
I realise the futility of asking Remain fanatics to stop blaming everything on brexit, that is clearly my never going to happen. And on the plus side it further alienates them from voters - even Tony Blair recognises this.
But it is nevertheless sometimes hard to resist blatant nonsense.
Food banks have nothing to do with the state of the economy. You can have massive levels of unemployment and yet have no network of food banks. As indeed happened in the 1980s.
The use of food banks shot massively after 2010. This was not the result of a sudden change in the state of the economy (the great global financial crisis occurred 2007-8) but the result of a sudden change in government.
The new government decided to impose austerity on the British people, something which EU membership didn't stop. As a consequence Tory and LibDem politicians had to find new and imaginative ways of reducing the benefits bill. The result of this was to drive desperate people, hungry people, to the food banks.
Punitive government sanctions are not dependant on being outside the EU. You can force ill people to look for work, or stop payments to someone who arrives 10 minutes late for their interview at the job centre, whilst still being a EU member state.
It is interesting to note that the very people who claimed that the EU did not have an overbearing influence on national governments, and that member states could freely follow their own economic policies, now claim that every single problem the UK is currently facing is the fault of brexit. Who would have thought it?
Edit : Just to emphasise my point in case I didn't make it clear - you can have a growing need for food banks in a buoyant economy with high levels of wages and employment if you actively dismantle the welfare state and social security provisions - people get sick, they become redundant, their husband walks out, etc etc
dissonance
I dont have a problem with that. Replace him now and let him visit for the weekend.
So long as he pays for it at full market rates.
"The market" and all that . . . .
he simply won’t answer the questions put to him
He doesn't know the answers.
He doesn't know what policies Johnson considers he can implement.
He doesn't know what decisions Johnson will allow him to take.
He doesn't know if Johnson will step down as PM as soon as a new Conservative leader is chosen.
(that last one stuck hardest... should be the easiest of questions to answer)
Brexit will continue to devour the Tories and their leaders.
And any other party that continues it.
https://twitter.com/ShuaibKhan26/status/1545086134941892610?t=rf5HlanCbEkBJiHOZOKUrQ&s=19
Apparently it's going to charity.
Still.
She's said that she won't keep it.
TA's are underpaid though. Their real incomes have fallen to embarrassing levels in recent years.
I wonder if you asked Channel 4, the BBC and GMTV "is Johnson vindictive" what the answer would be ?
I wonder if you asked Channel 4, the BBC and GMTV “is Johnson vindictive” what the answer would be ?
He doesn’t know if Johnson will step down as PM as soon as a new Conservative leader is chosen.
(that last one stuck hardest… should be the easiest of questions to answer)
To give him dues, I would be vary wary of parroting any line that came out of number 10. I mean, that's a damning indictment of the current situation, but I can understand why Cleverly might be nervous about answering questions like that.
I can understand why Cleverly might be nervous about answering questions like that
Absolutely. Cleverly is not the problem in that interview. He simply does not know the answers to the questions. He can't do. Let's hope we only have days of this... not months.
As for the problem with Channel4... this holds up from August 2019...
I realise the futility of asking Remain fanatics to stop blaming everything on brexit, that is clearly my never going to happen. And on the plus side it further alienates them from voters – even Tony Blair recognises this.
Is it as futile as getting a lexiter to admit that (thanks to brexit) a weaker economy = more poor people? 😉
Anyway
What happens next for blowhard?
Pincher scandal could well involve the police, there will be more blowback
Secret (not disclosed to FCO) meetings with lebdev snr without his security detail
Cummings says BJ secretly met Lavrov on 20th March 2020 !?!
Investigation into his lying to parliament still going ahead?
And as we are dealing with Johnson, what new scandals will be unearthed in the near future?
I realise the futility of asking Remain fanatics to stop blaming everything on brexit, that is clearly my never going to happen. And on the plus side it further alienates them from voters – even Tony Blair recognises this.
Apart from in Scotland where we understand the damage brexit is still causing and rejoining the EU is massivly popular
And NI
Also public support for brexit is collapsing
I realise the futility of asking Remain fanatics to stop blaming everything on brexit
By calling people 'Remain Fanatics' you have fallen into the trap expertly laid by the tory party and the right wing media. It's a loaded phrase specifically designed to make people seem slightly unhinged.
So in this country, people can't talk about how, in fact, Brexit was objectively bad for the economy, without being tagged as mad by an army of people* of people willing to resort to ad hominems without batting an eyelid.
* I say people, what I meant was frothing Brexity peri-racist gammons. (Everyone on both sides of the political discourse all need to be careful not to fall into the same traps).
It is interesting to note that the very people who claimed that the EU did not have an overbearing influence on national governments, and that member states could freely follow their own economic policies, now claim that every single problem the UK is currently facing is the fault of brexit. Who would have thought it?
This is just a distillation of so many of the counterfactual arguments (or lies, if you like) of both left and right leavers. We trade with the EU, It (was) our biggest market, put barriers up to that trade and our economy will suffer. If the economy suffers than that is always passed to the workers to pay and bear the cost
By calling people ‘Remain Fanatics’ you have fallen into the trap expertly laid by the tory party and the right wing media. It’s a loaded phrase specifically designed to make people seem slightly unhinged.
Yes, this is the "well you didn't believe in it enough" trap.
Slag off Brexit for being a stupid idea from stupid people and the answer is now that Brexit would have worked if only Remoaners had got behind it and *believed*.
The Peter Pan answer.
What actually counts as a "remain fanatic" is the a clear definition.
Oustide of parliament most remain voters just seem to have got on with their lives.
The Peter Pan answer.
Absolutely, the Tinkerbell proposition and blaming the 'vindictive EU' are the only two deflections that people who voted for this have to try to explain why our economic prospects seem so much worse than other G7 nations.
We have chosen to make ourselves poorer and less influential as a nation. Those who might be keen to embark on similar, disastrous projects in future (there is still plenty left to wreck in the name of 'freedom') don't want the population to become more aware of the damage.
Apparently it’s going to charity.
Still.
I posted on this yesterday, it's in the legislation that departing ministers get this 25% 'redundancy payment'. I also believe it is payable whether sacked, resigned, (presume not if reshuffled to an equivalent post but who knows) With all the leavers of jobs of the last few days, the total bill is £420K
My speculation was whether the people being put into post now to keep this sham PM/Gov going - if the 1922 fire him next week, a true caretaker comes in and replaces a load more, are we in for another big redundancy payment?
If it's going to charity, that's one thing I suppose.
Well this remain fanatic sees things pretty clearly. Public services are paid through taxation. The tax take is related to the gross domestic product (income) of the country. The country earns less than it did but services need paying for. Taxes must therefore rise to offset the declining country income. Things happen slower than in your current account but there are some fundamentals here that people happily ignore. Until they pay more taxes.
Leaving the EEA was never originally on the table. And was a choice to be poorer that the current band of tories own. Cameron took us out but Johnson and the ERG really crashed the red bus and are running away. What a legacy and having given up his personal convictions to achieve it.
Scotland voted to stay in the union largely based on economics. England doesn’t understand economics. Thank goodness the GFA provides some feedback system for an eventual rational solution. It’s two PMs away yet.
Speaking to the general public every day, I have to say I'm getting a bit sick of Tory voters in the last 24hrs saying "well he had to go!", "Worst prime minister in my life time!", "It was inevitable that Boris would destroy himself!", "I always knew he would be an awful pm, but he did a good job in the panedmic".....
They all seem to claim that they knew he was going to be terrible but voted him in anyway - my farther in law, just retorts anti Corbyn bs when ever politics are mentioned.
It’s a loaded phrase specifically designed to make people seem slightly unhinged.
I think blaming brexit for food banks is pretty unhinged. Or to be more polite an act of desperation.
Food banks are the result of a failed benefits system, to repeat the point for the umpteenth time.
This ‘care taker’ cabinet is as bent as Boris’ previous cabinet. I’m currently listening to James Cleverley on R4 continuously not answer questions, he simply won’t answer the questions put to him. Oh but guess what, the only question he did answer was that he thinks Boris & Carrie’s wedding party at Chequers on 30th July should be allowed to go ahead…
Same bunch of lying scumbags, slightly different names
So at this point, 8th July, haunted troll doll Johnson claims to be staying on till a successor is found, but let's face it, he's checked out and will do nothing other than wine and cake testing for his wedding bash that we'll pay for at the house he's used more than any other PM.
The actual cost of Carries god awful taste in wallpaper has been leaked and we paid for £3500 drinks trolley
https://twitter.com/SholaMos1/status/1545326117808119808?s=20&t=6OrXnd9BKdTpkKP8yjXl4Q
How has this pair of grifters not been dragged out of No.10 by their ankles at this point by a braying mob who are wondering how to pay their gas bills this winter?
Well this remain fanatic sees things pretty clearly. Public services are paid through taxation. The tax take is related to the gross domestic product (income) of the country
No they're not.
The money is issued effectively by the bank of England through the consolidated fun account and government spending is paid before any tax take with the newly created money.
Tax merely removes money out of circulation. The difference is the deficit which is matched by bond issuance. Bond issuance is just a safe place for the private sector to put money - this is called the national debt and is not a debt in the same way you or I know a debt.
Bond issuance is also a swap of reserves (non interest bearing v interest bearing) which is supposed to help control interest rates.
How else do you think money gets into the economy? (As well as commercial bank lending.)
Food banks are the result of a failed benefits system, to repeat the point for the umpteenth time.
Made worse by the economic disaster of brexit
I think blaming brexit for food banks is pretty unhinged
No one is blaming it entirely for them. What people are stating though is it has meant more people are using them than would be the case otherwise.
Food banks are the result of a failed benefits system, to repeat the point for the umpteenth time.
Okay but lets take a step back and ask why people are needing to use that benefits system. There we find that brexit has contributed to that need.
No big bash at Chequers now... after sending people out to say why it could still go ahead this morning.
I wonder if you asked Channel 4, the BBC and GMTV “is Johnson vindictive” what the answer would be ?
The question is about whether he would be vindictive in his memoirs.
Trying to coerce those channels into at worse being silent and at best actively supporting you isnt vindictive as opposed to good, albeit unethical, tactics.
Aparently Boris & Carrie were planning on having their wedding reception at Chequers in July, James Cleverly doesn't see a problem with this:- "Private functions like that do not impose a burden on the public purse" 🤔
Keep up... [ I know, it's impossible, no one can ] after sending him out to degrade himself with that nonsense, the position has been switched to it not taking place. Why would anyone agree to go out to the media to answer questions on Johnson's behalf? There really is no point. Conservatives need to remove him ASAP, if the don't want months of looking increasingly foolish...
"Slag off Brexit for being a stupid idea from stupid people and the answer is now that Brexit would have worked if only Remoaners had got behind it and *believed*."
This is the point...
I remember when we joined Europe in the 70's. Nearly everyone that voted then was of working age, believing in it wasn't the issue then, they were invested in it.
Brexit was achieved by the huge number of pensioners who are no longer invested in the economy, likely to be sat on a property worth hundreds of thousands and have a secure, index linked income. They are asking those of working age who overwhelmingly voted remain to 'believe'.
The fact that when they go into care there will be no one to look after them because they've kicked a million hard working, tax paying foreigners from these shores is lost on them.
Maybe remain should have had their own bus slogan:
"Vote Brexit but you can wipe your own arse when your kids dump you in a retirement home"
What's fabulous is that, after everything, they sent Cleverly out to spout this bollox to the media, then almost immediately did a u-turn and moved the event. Nothing changes, and I have no sympathy for any of these people who have chosen to debase themselves in his service this way.
They could have all refused to join his ministerial team and brought matters to a head in the next week. The Tory Party would have put forward an interim PM, the House would have endorsed it and we would have been spared his intrigues and zombie leadership during a pandemic/ecomonic crisis/European war.
Conservatives need to remove him ASAP, if the don’t want months of looking increasingly foolish…
It's accepted that he's staying now, until a new leader is selected.
Let's hope he makes even more of a disgrace of himself in the meantime.
Why would anyone agree to go out to the media to answer questions on Johnson’s behalf? There really is no point
The one question he actually answered and its already a screeching u-turn.
It’s accepted that he’s staying now, until a new leader is selected
There's more than one way to make this fast... the Conservatives could have a new leader in less than a fortnight if they think that having Johnson out of the way is more important than members having a say. But then his ministers can't even say that he'll step down as PM when a new leader is selected... but then they can't say anything...
he Conservatives could have a new leader in less than a fortnight if they think that having Johnson out of the way is more important than members having a say.
Exactly how Theresa May was selected. But this lot want to fight like rats in a sack, so we have months of rudderless government.
The levels of delusion are extreme...
The actual cost of Carries god awful taste in wallpaper has been leaked and we paid for £3500 drinks trolley
And £15k for two sofas.
Wait, sofas that didn’t include 36m of fabric to cover them.
That’s £2800 more.
Thanks. Really. £18,000. I bet they were sitting on the floor until they arrived.
Exactly how Theresa May was selected.
That should have gone to the party vote but Leadsom dropped out at the end of the first stage.
It would depend on how close the front runners are as to whether that might happen this time round.
Depends who it is as well. If they have a leading candidate without super strong Brexit credentials, they will have to put it to a members vote... or local constituency members will go nuts after what happened with May.
The obvious answer is a trustworthy caretaker PM while a full leadership contest takes place. That's not Boris Johnson. He should be out now, and his security clearance as regards privy council and other access should be reviewed, with him no longer in a position to prevent or pervert that review.
I could understand Johnson staying on if he'd been ousted because he lost an election, but he's been chucked for his constant dishonesty and dismal failure to adhere to standards in public life.
And £15k for two sofas.
A £6000 lamp!!
Apparently the wedding bash is now not going to happen at Chequers. Even the tories must realise what an insult this is to all the struggling people in the country. John Heartfield and Max Beckman revisited.
ernie, I respect your stand, but you're pissing into the wind here.
Just in case you didn't get the brief -
Brexit is the cause of everything bad that has happened since the referendum, plus everything bad that will happen in the future, and also, everything bad that happened before the referendum. If you don't agree, you are racist. Because only hard right racist gammons voted for Brexit. For entirely hard-right mega-racist reasons And if you're not screeching your agreement on here at the same fever-pitch, you are a troll. And also a racist.
No, "well it's happened now, let's see what happens and try and make the best of it'". Or "I wonder why it happened, let's try and address that so worse things don't happen". Just a nasty childish pig-headed attitude akin to a toddler sat on the floor with its fingers in their ears throwing a tantrum and screaming "racist!" at everyone without even knowing what the word means.
"a toddler sat on the floor with its fingers in their ears throwing a tantrum and screaming “racist!” at everyone without even knowing what the word means."
Racist is as racist does.
Well done, at least for spelling the word with an R, rather than a W, like you used to..
Brexit is the cause of everything bad that has happened since the referendum, plus everything bad that will happen in the future, and also, everything bad that happened before the referendum. If you don’t agree, you are racist.
Not at all - a complete mischaracterisation. I think many people who voted Brexit were probably not racist but were just quite stupid*.
Just a nasty childish pig-headed attitude akin to a toddler sat on the floor with its fingers in their ears throwing a tantrum
It's strange. That's precisely how I imagine most Brexit fanatics. Or more accurately, like that meme of the dog in a burning room.
Just shows how we are products of our own bubbles. Mine is the real one, you understand.
No, “well it’s happened now, let’s see what happens and try and make the best of it'”.
That's quite literally the Labour policy.
* Joking aside, I don't think people who voted Brexit were stupid, either. Just completely mislead by self-interested scum, and probably betrayed by the status quo and thought that throwing a hand grenade into the middle of the UK's politics and economy could maybe do them some good. Or at least, that it was worth rolling the dice.
People who look at what's happened and still think it was a good idea, on the other hand... Those are the people with their fingers in their ears.
That’s quite literally the Labour policy.
And is literally what we are all doing in real life. Getting on with things and working with the reality of our new position. The problem is that many of us come up against problems resulting from Brexit on a daily basis. If you're retired and comfortably off, I can see why you might think that it's not worth mentioning. You can't address the problems if you try to pretend they don't exist though.
Back on topic... one of the problems is that we made Boris Johnson Prime Minister because he said he could deliver a Brexit that was not only better than the arrangements we were giving up, but better then the ones that the previous PM was proposing/negotiating. Has he... or was that just misdirection, like all his other promises..?
A £6000 lamp!!
Without the shade.
£8500 complete!
Brexit is the cause of everything bad that has happened since the referendum
Interesting that the two defenders of brexit both have arguments with absolute no nuance but just a binary all good or all bad.
Brexit was a revolution and the thing with revolutions is....that they never turn out the way you wanted. Just ask Martin Luther.
The hand grenade is a good analogy. It has exploded and the country is in pieces. We will stagnate until a counter revolution of some kind establishes itself, probably when the first intake of members of parliament who didn't get a chance to vote in the referendum have their say.
The lack of freedom of movement is what is strangling our economy, the UK won't pull out of its nose dive until that issue is properly addressed.
I think blaming brexit for food banks is pretty unhinged
No one is blaming it entirely for them.
The post last night that started this was:
We’re a first world country with working people so poor that they have to rely on foodbanks, all because we’ve spent half a decade fixated on how much 52% of our population dislike foreigners.
and palpably their use was on the rise well before brexit, so that 'all because' is clearly false.
What people are stating though is it has meant more people are using them than would be the case otherwise
almost certainly true, all I and others have said is that because of the impacts of Covid, and Oil, and Ukraine, it's hard to say to what extent, if at all. Ernie pointed out the use actually went down last year. Coming out of Covid, or a genuine reduction in underlying poverty? I can hypothesize but it'll take more years of data to know.
That's not defending Brexit, or saying it hasn't had an effect, just that it's hard to know. Also, the figures quoted are on food parcels given, not people using them. Do we have the same people in poverty but now worse than before, or more people - again I'd hypothesize the latter but I don't know.
What is clear is that their increase started well before brexit, cv19, oil, or Ukraine, but notably increased in 2010, when the Gov changed. It's relatively easy to make a hypothesis from that, I think.
@martinhutch, Suella for PM. This would be amazing to watch from afar as she has been our local MP for years. We never see her because we think she keeps going to Farnham rather than Fareham as she can't believe she is the MP for such a shit show of a town. Total waste of space so will probably become PM
Anyone reminded of This?