Getting the MET involved helps Johnson.
They'll investigate for months and then decide either that there isn't enough evidence to prosecute, or that it would not be in the public interest.
If Starmer calls a VONC in the mean time, the Tory's will accuse him of attempting to influence the investigation.
piha
If labour call a VONC its in the tory government and is a vote of all MPS. There is no rule that you cannot do it again for a year. You can have one every day if you want
The tory party can hold a VONC in Johnson as the leader of the party. Thats an internal tory party vote and that has the rule that he would be safe for a year
But you are right in that its pointless posturing. It would fail and boost Johnson significantly. You only call a VONC if you have a decent chance of winning or you want to force a small party in a coalition into a difficult corner.
All thanks to the populist, Brexit voting, red wall constituents that delivered such as resounding margin of victory in the last G.E.
Let's not play the blame game. You could just as easily say the same about the rich selfish masses in the south who've been voting the Tories in for years and ultimately caused all the issues that led to the red wall votes.
The **** going to get away with it isn’t he?
The way things are playing out sound like a conspiracy theorist’s fever dream…
On top of the conveniently timed MET investigation and the wall to wall new speak being put out by the government, the new criminal justice will arrive just in time to criminalise any entirely justified demonstrations (which might possibly be noisy or cause offence).
Has JHJ got a job in the Cabinet Office?
The House of Commons and the Speaker of the House have proved entirely ineffective in holding the lies to account. The honourable thing for the Labour Party, SNP etc to do would be to accuse Boris in plain English of being a serial liar. Once every opposition MP has been named and removed from the chamber it might show what a tin pot system we currently have.
But you are right in that its pointless posturing.
It’s really not. It shows they’re doing everything in their power to remove him, it would bind Tory MPs to Johnson’s fate and prevent them from separating themselves from him, and more than anything else signals to the public that they should be the judges via a general election. If they do nothing labour are in danger of looking like a useless and ineffective opposition. People will say they are weak and useless because they couldn’t get rid of the most useless and corrupt PM in living memory.
Presumably the Met (let's not lump all forces in with this farce) will be investigating potential wrongdoing from which prosecutions may come. (yes i know they won't but...)
That being the case interviews will presumably be official, so under caution. Any lies or deliberatly misleadin information will be an offence.
Let’s not play the blame game. You could just as easily say the same about the rich selfish masses in the south who’ve been voting the Tories in for years and ultimately caused all the issues that led to the red wall votes.
It is very much the Red Wall voters that have delivered this majority, Bozza isn't a true tory, he's a shameless populist that doesn't do detail and the Red Wall lapped it up. Does anyone of the Red Wall really believe Bozza will deliver? Bozza has played his hand exceptionally well, he has delivered a thumping tory majority, greatly reduced the influence of the irksome pro-European MPs of the tory Party and delivered the vaccine (all single handedly it would appear if some of the comments from his devout followers are to be believed).
The voters in the southern Shires did deliver the tory majorities of the past but the tories can no longer rely on their votes, especially as many of those tory voters get older & older. Many of the voters in the Shires see through Bozza and his populist rhetoric, look at the recent by-elections.
If labour call a VONC its in the tory government and is a vote of all MPS. There is no rule that you cannot do it again for a year. You can have one every day if you want
TJ - you are correct but with his 80 seat majority, Bozza is safe.
The tories are drunk on power and they will do anything to maintain their grip on No 10. The last thing they want to do is lose their biggest vote winner but they do have some repair work to do.
It would strengthen Johnsons position by forcing MPs to get behind him and make it much harder for them to remove him because even for tories to support a Johnsons goverment in a VONC makes it too much of a obvious hypocritical stance to then oust him in an internal VONC
Johnson could then continually claim he has the support of the HOC behind him.
Calling a VONC that you will lose heavily merely strengthens the party in power, binds them together and makes the party calling it look weak and foolish
But the converse might be that, because it binds them to Boris, they all go down when he eventually sinks the ship...?
It’s really not. It shows they’re doing everything in their power to remove him, it would bind Tory MPs to Johnson’s fate
It really is.
The only people that can rid us of the hapless Bozza is Bozza or his own Party. Their majority is just far too big. I think the only real thing SKS/Labour can do is let Bozza destroy his own Premiership and highlight his shortcomings. Time will tell though.....
Johnson would absolutely walk a VONC if it was called by the labour party at the moment. Any disgruntlement with backbench MPs would evaporate once the whips and their own constituency associations got on to them.
He'd then use his bolstered position by declaring it a ringing endorsement of his premiership and immediately sell off the BBC, abolish all workers rights, start a war with France and god knows what else
Starmer would have to be mental to call for one. Why start a war you know that you'll lose?
I'm afraid the only people who can rid us of the flytipped sofa at the moment are those sat behind him. And they'll only do that of their own accord
they all go down when he eventually sinks the ship…?
Indeed. There’s a bigger picture beyond getting rid of Boris, which is beating his successor in a GE. To do that they need to ensure the shit also sticks to Sunak/Truss/Hunt/whoever.
The public are being made very aware that it is Tory MPs that keep Johnson in his post. They are bound to him if they don’t speak out against him, and call for him to go. There is no need for a parliamentary VONC to “bind Tory MPs to Johnson”.
Johnson would absolutely walk a VONC
Of course he would, that’s the whole point. See above. Johnson is already finished, labour need to be looking to what comes next.
It is very much the Red Wall voters that have delivered this majority
I really don't agree with that. There's not much red, (or any other colour) down south on this map. Sure, the red wall made a difference to the size of the majority, but the traditional Tory heartlands are pretty solid/reliable below the midlands.
The biggest issue with the MET investigating is that we might get a few low ranking civil servants charged but can you really see a sitting PM being charged for this sort of thing, I can't. It's politicising the MET again. Cressida really is a Dick.
An interesting take on it from Mays former chief of staff. Needs the whole thread but he thinks its very damaging
https://twitter.com/GavinBarwell/status/1485971945086668803?s=20
Guardian reporting that the Met police are quite happy for the Gray report to be published this week, its a govt. decision to delay it.
jhinwxm
Free MemberThe Sue Gray report will be a whitewash. Waste of time, as are most things of this nature where corrupt politicians etc are involved. Nothing genuine or sincere ever comes out of government these days.
I'm not so sure... If the report really was going to be a whitewash, I don't think they'd have pulled this trick with the Met investigation to kick it down the road. You don't delay it if it's the outcome you want, you get it out fast and say "completely exonerated" and "it was all just Labour playing politics"
There’s not much red, (or any other colour) down south on this map.
It's not a great map for showing where the red is. Better to split by constituency or population.
There is a southern bias but it's actually more of rural/urban split if anything
I wonder if this will convince enough of the back-bencher MP's who were waiting on publication of the Grey report to chuck a 1922 letter in now.
edit - those modified maps make it look even less like the North is to blame for a Tory government to my eye! Interesting views though, like those, thanks.
There is a southern bias but it’s actually more of rural/urban split if anything
I was going to say the same thing. The big English and Welsh cities are all heavily Labour.
…………very like the US dem/rep split then.
If delaying the report is a political decision rather than necessitated by the police enquiry, there’s no way he will get away with it. If as many Tories as we understand are waiting for the report before deciding on his fate, that’s a big fat guilty indicator.
I guess it depends how heavily that gets reported, if the public aren't generally aware then it might not make a difference. I'd hope that Labour pick up on this and ask for the release of the report. If I was in a conservative constituency I'd email my MP saying they should ask for it to be released
edit. if framed properly I think the decision to withhold the report could be just as embarrasing for the tories as the parties themselves
Kier Starmer now has this angle to attack tomorrow as well. Islamophobia, illegal parties, blackmailing your own MPs and cover-ups too. How many questions does he get?
They’ll investigate for months and then decide either that there isn’t enough evidence to prosecute, or that it would not be in the public interest.
For the umpteenth time, the Met don't make those decisions, the CPS do.
If I was in a conservative constituency I’d email my MP saying they should ask for it to be released
I've not bothered contacting my Labour MP about all this shit before, but actually I think asking him to try and get the opposition request the report is released might be worth doing.
How many questions does he get?
6 IIRC
@martinhutch - it's just a shame it isn't live on prime time TV!
@tthew - good point, I'll probably email my MP about that as well
More leaks
The Met have no objection to the Grey report being publisedh according to "sources"
I really have seen nothing like this in my life. The amount of arrogance and deceit, the leaking and the 4th rate MPs attempting to defend the indefensible while anyone with half a brain is running as fast as they can in the other direction
I really have seen nothing like this in my life.
I think it's a sign of how desensitised to this shit we've become over the last few years that each new 'revelation' that is leaked, complete with the blatant rule-breaking, lying, deceit and cover-up it exposes is just whats expected. Just par for the course with this gang of morally bankrupt shysters.
I just can't see how anyone can defend it or come away with any other impression than them just laughing at you and treating us all with utter contempt
For the umpteenth time, the Met don’t make those decisions, the CPS do.
CPS make the decision to charge but not charging- the MPS could decide it doesn’t meet the threshold for seeking a charging decision, so could in theory bin it (although that would be a bit mental if you can pass the buck to cps)
Responsibility of the police;
“taking “no further action” in cases that cannot meet the appropriate evidential standard, without referral to a prosecutor;”
Just par for the course with this gang of morally bankrupt shysters
Aside from Johnson's own dishonesty and mendacity, the main thing this whole episode has exposed is how difficult it is to get rid of a corrupt government/PM who routinely break their own rules and the laws they pass. Ultimately there's only one way to get rid of a government, and that's via an election. Labour should be demanding an election now and proposing new policies which will hold future governments to account in situations such as this.
I just can’t see how anyone can defend it or come away with any other impression than them just laughing at you and treating us all with utter contempt
It's starting to become utterly exhausting, being so angry with them the whole time (and by 'them' I mean the whole sodding system). I can't decide if I should become more political and active and make a really big noise about this or just give up, switch off all media and ignore it all as it feels like it's impossible to change any of it.
I can’t decide if I should become more political and active and make a really big noise about this or just give up
Does make you wonder just how much the 'Great British Public' are willing to be shafted before they get off their lazy apathetic arses and do something about it. If this was France Paris would be in flames by now. A while back I got roundly slagged off for saying that burning down tory constituency offices wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I'm even more of that opinion now.
@dazh - I agree that Labour (and other parties) are just not being a robust opposition. So much opportunity to keep calling for change, to inspire a better future, to demand integrity from our public servants.
It’s starting to become utterly exhausting, being so angry with them the whole time (and by ‘them’ I mean the whole sodding system). I can’t decide if I should become more political and active and make a really big noise about this or just give up, switch off all media and ignore it all as it feels like it’s impossible to change any of it.
Better hurry up if you want to do that 🙂
Before they get the laws thru to prevent that.
ignore it all as it feels like it’s impossible to change any of it.
Not a dig at you mate, genuinely, but that's a good part of why we have a Tory government and Boris for a PM.
Your point on the seeming impossibility of changing the system is valid though.
I made a post ages back about the merit of having a written condition and it was roundly dismissed as being unnecessary.
I'm now wondering if we really do need one. It would help deal with a PM /government that is overtly corrupt and simply doesn't play by the old codes of "honour" and falling on your sword for the greater good.
Sorry if this has been done....
https://mobile.twitter.com/bydonkeys/status/1471125380228653060?s=12
People will say they are weak and useless because they couldn’t get rid of the most useless and corrupt PM in living memory.
They will, but just reply telling them it's because we don't have a functioning constitution that he's both in place and still here.
but that’s a good part of why we have a Tory government and Boris for a PM.
Spot on. Those that think they are born to rule are very happy for the electorate to leave them to it. You've got to keep fighting if you want any change, but it is hard.
Has the report actually been finished? Twitter makes it sound like it has…
I agree that Labour (and other parties) are just not being a robust opposition. So much opportunity to keep calling for change, to inspire a better future, to demand integrity from our public servants.
Apart from thats exactly what they are doing Both Raynor and Starmer made statements to that effect in the last couple of days. However there is also the old adage " Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
So its a fine balance. also given the amount of news coming out of the tories its hard to get column inches
Keir’s done well so far on this one.
PMQs etc that got BoJo to make statements in the house that look more and more like misleading parliament - and that, even if it’s about whether he accidentally pocketed a paperclip that wasn’t his, is a resigning matter.
Keir doesn’t need to knock him out, only get him lying to the house.
The reason civil cases and administrative investigations often end up needing to be paused when there are criminal proceedings isn't just, or even primarily, that the prosecutors might prefer that. It is because a combination of rules and practical considerations mean that the civil/administrative process may not be possible, for example potential criminal defendants claiming the privilege against self-incrimination, relevant material getting seized, witnesses being more reluctant to co-operate and so on. A fair disciplinary proceeding would be difficult for an employee who is also a criminal defendant where the cases are about the same thing, so often employees remain suspended for the duration. There is the possibility of publication of stuff preventing a fair trial, thought that is really only a concern in jury cases and these would be magistrates jobs (afaik).
The Gray investigation is kind of preliminary to disciplinary proceedings, and may be almost complete. I read that she was not going to publish the names of junior staff involved anyhow. So many of these difficulties may not apply.
