Forum menu
Apparently he’s now recovering from an op on his nose. Hmmmm.
Reverse Pinocchio.
That Oborne piece is really interesting. Seems he's absolutely got the measure of him.
It's so true that this amiable buffoon schtick is still doing a job at hiding how dangerous he really is as a threat to democracy. It absolutely staggers me that people are still buying it. He's so transparent.
As for the op? The most worrying thing is that Dominic Raab is nominally in charge. He always has the look of a man who's just been disturbed while cutting up a dead prostitute in his bath. I bet he's been itching to nuke Moscow just to see what would happen
how dangerous he really is as a threat to democracy.
So dangerous that many in the Parliamentary Labour Party and Labour HQ were quite happy for him to be PM. 🤔
I like to talk about Johnson on the Starmer thread
TBH it's pretty bloody stupid having two threads about the same thing. But then I guess the ostriches on here who don't want to understand the link between Johnson's success and labour's failure need a place to do their whining about how terrible eveything is.
I'll stop when you lot actually start talking about something with some substance to it. For as long as you whinge about how evil Johnson is, I'll just keep reminding you that there was an alternative which you didn't seem to want, resulting in the thing you're now moaning about.
OH FFS!!! CAN YOU KEEP YOUR ENDLESS *ING STARMER STUFF TO THE ACTUAL *ING STARMER THREAD SO THE REST OF US CAN JUST IGNORE YOU IN YOUR LITTLE ****ING LEFTIE ECHO CHAMBER?
Are you saying that you don't like people making the same point over and over?
Stop doing it then.
I’ll just keep reminding you that there was an alternative which you didn’t seem to want, resulting in the thing you’re now moaning about.
Stop lecturing people who voted for Labour under Corbyn for him not being elected PM. In fact, just keep it out of this thread. It is not Binner's fault, or Corbyn's fault, or Stamer's fault that Boris Johnson is a god awful PM that is causing lasting damage to the UK, it is BORIS JOHNSON'S FAULT.
Boris Johnson Broke Britain.
Oh christ! As this just turns this into Starmer thread yet again....
I’ll just keep reminding you that there was an alternative which you didn’t seem to want, resulting in the thing you’re now moaning about.
I voted for Corbyn. Twice. While also seeing how obviously unelectable he was, as he was so repellent to such a huge chunk of the electorate (and you can argue all day about who's fault that is, but it was predominantly his)
And you have an interesting definition of failure. When Grandad finally, belatedly shuffled off to the allotment, having gift-wrapped Boris his 80 seat majority, labour were polling 24 points behind the Tories, they've now been polling ahead of them consistently since last year. Thats failure, is it?
Now FFS, can you keep all further Corbyn/Starmer points to the Starmer thread, so the rest of us can ignore it and leave the five of you having your little competition to see who can furiously denounce Starmer the most, and blame him for causing cancer, starting the second world war and whatever else you've decided is his fault today?
This is meant to be a thread about Boris Johnson
This is meant to be a thread about Boris Johnson
Stop talking about Starmer & Corbyn then.
Oh FFS! Its the usual suspects who ALWAYS bring up the subject of Grandad, usually Daz
Now be off back to the Starmer thread with the rest of your little sixth form gang. Have you lot not got A level revision to be doing?
Now be off back to the Starmer thread with the rest of your little sixth form gang. Have you lot not got A level revision to be doing?
Are you saying that you don’t like people making the same point over and over?
Stop doing it then.
QED. If you want people to change their behaviour, try it yourself.
It is not Binner’s fault, or Corbyn’s fault, or Stamer’s fault that Boris Johnson is a god awful PM that is causing lasting damage to the UK, it is BORIS JOHNSON’S FAULT.
Nope. Everyone knew how terrible and destructive he would be. There were plenty of warnings, so none of this should be a surprise. Even with that knowledge many in the labour party still decided their own trivial self serving interests were more important than stopping Johnson becoming PM. Starmer was one of those people. The irony of course is now that he's succeeded in manoevring himself into the leadership and siezed back control of the party by the right wing, he's doing a god-awful job. He must be wondering what the point of it all was.
So Boris tried to give his then mistress (Carrie), a £100k a year job in Downing Street.
This was not allowed and then the story broke (quietly) in The Times and then it vanished just as quickly and now, No. 10 admit to having pressured The Times to drop the story.
Nothing to see here, another normal day in BungaBoris land...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-carriegate-times-story-b2105025.html
This doesn't need to be this angry.
Johnson is the main baddie - we know.
But Starmer is the current opposition leader and it must be pointed out when he's giving Johnson a free-ride. This stuff is linked. Especially with the movement of Labour towards the centre-right.
Which is why I post 95% of my Starmer troubles in the Starmer thread.
There is too much "we need a thread for this and a thread for that." - because I don't like what's being said.
Nothing to see here, another normal day in BungaBoris land…
Thank god for a "free press"... I suppose we should be glad that at least Borisconi doesn't literally own the press... it's just that he can offer the owners security of wealth and power.
This is meant to be a thread about Boris Johnson
So no good comments when Starmer trounces him at PMQs?
*sigh*
Anyways... back on topic, Grant Schapps has just anounced that they now plan to change the law, this week, to make it legal to replace striking staff with agency workers
And so the assault on workers rights gathers pace. I think they're looking for a proper full-on 80's style fight with the unions so they can use it as a cover to take a torch to employment rights across the board, now we're 'free of the shackles of the EU'
So much for the 'High Wage, High Skill' economy, eh?
This is meant to be a thread about Boris Johnson
Johnson and Starmer are two sides of the same coin. You can't talk about one without the other. Starmer played a major role in Johnson becoming PM, and is doing an amazing job of keeping him there. The fact that Johnson's main source of opposition is his own backbench MPs tells you all you need to know.
legal to replace striking staff with agency workers
Which minister? Not one who criticised P&O for replacing staff with agency workers? Surely...?
So no good comments when Starmer trounces him at PMQs?
There used to be, but DazH would always pop out the cave to denounce Starmer again.
I'm also in the camp of let's focus on Boris in this thread. There are some relevant points to make about opposition, but more often than not they aren't made, and some drivel is spouted by a few usual suspects that derails the conversation.
I sigh when i see some usernames pop up in this thread
I think they’re looking for a proper full-on 80’s style fight with the unions
Good job the unions have the mighty labour party at their back then. Oh wait.. 😄
So much for the ‘High Wage, High Skill’ economy, eh?
No chance without strong Trade Unions. EU or Not.
Lol @DazH - I didn't copy your post honest.
There used to be, but DazH would always pop out the cave to denounce Starmer again.
We're all entitled to our opinions. Something we have to live with.
Tag team thread derailment... fun for a handful of people... is the death of this thread the intention? Because I predict that, even with you doing the filibustering thing, Johnson will continue to sink to new lows and keep this thread alive, simply with his bare face cheek. His corruption to funnel money to a mistress while Mayor will be coming up again now it looks like a pattern of behaviour... and maybe one day we'll have an enquiry into his corruption to funnel money to a mistress while Foreign Secretary... but I suspect that will have to wait till he's gone, and others start rebuilding our processes of democratic oversight... he's shutting them all down while PM.
Good job the unions have the mighty labour party at their back then. Oh wait.. 😄
Interestingly enough, despite being one of the most potent unions, the RMT aren't affiliated with Labour...
Johnson and Starmer are two sides of the same coin.
Only a far distant leftie would think that. I'm further left than most of Westminster but even I can see this isn't really true. They might both be right of what I'd like, but in the context of the UK and when talking about them personally, they aren't related at all.
Im still genuinely puzzled why/how the Carrie FCO job story got canned
Streisand effect that just makes the Times look bad
Ive no idea how represntative the hecklers are of voters in Tiverton
but I dont think this bodes well for Johnson
https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1538833137324670977
Industrial action has only ever been the way the working class makes advances. More strikes occur under Labour. You'd be mad to expect anything from Reeves and the Starmtroopers but vote Labour to raise people's expectations and aspirations.
Im still genuinely puzzled why/how the Carrie FCO job story got canned
The weird bit is how late it was done after the physical papers were out there waiting for photos to be taken.
I can see why they would want it canning but it was too late to work.
Only a far distant leftie would think that. I’m further left than most of Westminster but even I can see this isn’t really true.
Well think of it in these terms (And speaking broadly from the party) they were both offering very similar (stolen or otherwise windfall policies, by way of example.)
They're similar on economic policy - with Labour shifting to the rightwards on fiscal policy. And the Tories trying hard to not give tax cuts when it suits.
Neither party are particularly enthusiastic on trade unions, and neither party wanting to give state workers particularly good wage rises.
And neither party has a solution (or wants to offer a solution) to the cost of living crisis. It's the same neoliberal - let the market fix things approach until the state absolutely has to intervene.
The attitudes might be different but the core politics are within a limited framework and similar.
The idea of being able to just replace striking workers with agency workers is bloody stupid. In this case there's (IIRC) 40,000 drivers, signallers, guards etc walking out. How many qualified agency workers do we think are available to fill the gaps? Very few I reckon. Even what would be considered unskilled jobs can't just be thrown in at the deep end on the day without inductions, familiarisation, support of other workers etc.
Did anyone see the phone in with Nadine Dorres and Rachel Johnson on LBC?
Simply flabbergasted that something so moronic can be responsible for shaping policy
Im not sure that Lib Dems will win tiverton, but the video of the Tory candidate and these numbers give me hope...
https://twitter.com/p_surridge/status/1538850731964485639
Just when will Starmer have his Colonel Nicholson moment - "what have I done..."
The REC are dead set against shapps' plan to replace strikers with agency staff.
Their chief exec was interviewed on Today prog and was very clear; he's also written to paul scully.
Here's the link... https://www.rec.uk.com/our-view/insights/government-and-campaigns/rec-writes-minister-ban-agency-staff-covering-strikes
The idea of being able to just replace striking workers with agency workers is bloody stupid
I doubt even the tories think it will work in this case but it is a)throwing some red meat to the hardcore and b)setting it up for other strikes where it might work better.
they aren’t related at all.
You misunderstand. I'm not saying they're the same, although as rone has pointed out there's very little between them on policy (I think, because we don't actually have a clue what Starmer's policies are on the whole), I'm saying they're inextricably linked. Johnson's ability to hang on to the job is due largely to Starmer being unwilling or unable to challenge him, and Starmer's weakness is due to his obsession with Johnson as a personality and reactivity to whatever Johnson does or says (like the stupid speech on immigration). So everyone here wailing about how terrrible Johnson is but not wanting to discuss Starmer are missing the point completely and it's ridiculous for them to protest if the subject of Starmer comes up on this thread. It's not me and others who are shutting down debate, it's the opposite.
There is a whole other thread for discussing Starmer. No one is shutting down debate.
There is a whole other thread for discussing Starmer. No one is shutting down debate.
The point is that in many cases, you can't discuss one without the other. There are two threads so it's going to be in one of them.
No one is shutting down debate.
There is no debate. As with most other threads if you don't agree you get shut down. It's infantile.
you can’t discuss one without the other
Certainly true of a few obsessives. Can we get this thread back on Johnson, please?
Certainly true of a few obsessives. Can we get this thread back on Johnson, please?
Not just a few obsessives, as should be obvious with more than a moment's thought. Can you either sign up as a mod or quit the forum policing?
Certainly true of a few obsessives. Can we get this thread back on Johnson, please?
If you want to get the thread back onto Johnson why did you post that? ^^
The idea of being able to just replace striking workers with agency workers is bloody stupid. In this case there’s (IIRC) 40,000 drivers, signallers, guards etc walking out. How many qualified agency workers do we think are available to fill the gaps?
Some angry gammon on Twitter was saying that he could be a train driver, and reckoned he'd need 2 weeks training cos "it's just sitting there pushing buttons".
Various train drivers popped up to show him the 12-24 month training period after the extensive recruitment process and that wasn't counting the massive backlog of training that TOCs have at the moment anyway due to high levels of sickness, Covid, availability of rolling stock and actual time to train people.
TransPennine Express have a backlog of 7000 training days at the moment.
Same with airlines - so many staff (from pilots to air and ground crew to airport staff / baggage handlers / security etc) were furloughed during Covid and there were no opportunities for training due to social distancing that LOADS of staff lost all their certification and security clearances and it takes months to fire that back up.
Comments about bringing in agency staff (from the same moron that promised after the P&O debacle to make it illegal to fire workers and replace them with agency staff...) is just more dead cat appeals to the gammons who have no idea how the country is run (but would rather it was run by white British folk).
I see Boris' "last ditch plea" to avert the strikes went as well as could be expected...
And with murmurings of dissatisfaction with the leader within the Labour establishment, and still the possibility of Durham police issuing fines, Johnson could well panic that he might face someone other than Starmer in a general election.
I'm not sure that's his worry
https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1537025031829610496?t=vKqjMFjhyFV79Fq_mMK1SQ&s=19
Tory MPs kept Johnson in power not because they think he's better/ more popular than Starmer, but because all the other potential Tory candidates are so much worse
The whole agency thing is about being able to prevent strikes having any real threat in the future, not to diffuse the current one. Under current rules you need to give notice of any strike action so allowing agency workers to fill the empty slots will work in the future. It also allows the Tories to claim that they are fixing the issue when you've got the likes of the Daily Mail running headlines like this:
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/FsW7p9sT/20220620-155220.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/FsW7p9sT/20220620-155220.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
The weird bit is how late it was done after the physical papers were out there waiting for photos to be taken.
I can see why they would want it canning but it was too late to work.
My thoughts is that someone in the media has upset the Tories and been blacklisted so can't do their job. They've then threatened to run the Carrie story only for Tory HQ to call their bluff but the story then gets run anyway. It's only when the physical papers hit the shelves that the Tory press office start to do things so later editions don't have it. It really wouldn't surprise me if a few years down the line we hear about how this little leaked story is a small part of something bigger.
I’m not sure that’s his worry
The “good in a crisis” polling just fits in with the idea that Johnson is all about not only allowing but creating crises, so that people turn to him to deal with them. A great way to feel important, if that’s your main aim. It has worked. Not sure how many times it can keep on working.
I’m not sure that’s his worry
I beg to differ. Labour is currently leading by 6% which must be rather satisfying for Johnson under the current circumstances. A big Labour lead would have sealed his fate in the recent no confidence vote.
What traits people like in politicians is irrelevant. The question which needs to be asked is "how will you vote", not "who do you think has nice traits?"
The personality poll is clearly useful for strategists to build on their strengths and exploit their opponents weaknesses, but ultimately the only question that matters is how will voters vote.
The amusing thing about the Carrie Johnson article is the line about who the journo went to for confirmation of the story (the allegation orginally came from some book by that weasel Lord Ashcroft) - it says of the three people who confirmed it, two of them were appointed as senior ministers by Johnson post 2019. A little bit of paranoia fuel for him. 🙂
Some angry gammon on Twitter was saying that he could be a train driver, and reckoned he’d need 2 weeks training cos “it’s just sitting there pushing buttons”.
Surely this should be on a Grant Shapps thread?
The whole agency thing is about being able to prevent strikes having any real threat in the future, not to diffuse the current one. Under current rules you need to give notice of any strike action so allowing agency workers to fill the empty slots will work in the future.
There's no way you can train enough skilled workers in the time between a strike being announced and them being needed, as pointed out above, the train companies, (in this case, but would equally apply to any sector) can't even manage to keep up with current staff competencies.
Not financially achievable either.
They won't worry about the agency staff being trained, it'll be all about having people visible. The fact that the trains/buses/nuclear power station isn't running safely will just be blamed on the unions with the Tories just shrugging their shoulders and claiming to have done their best. A lot of their supporters will believe it too.
Surely this should be on a Grant Shapps thread?
Should he have multiple threads? A Michael Green thread? A Corinne Stockheath thread? A Sebastian Fox thread?
A cabinet full of integrity, thanks to Boris Johnson.
So Johnson has had his sinuses bored for chronic sinusitis. Wonder what caused that? What has he been putting up his nose
?
The fact that the trains/buses/nuclear power station isn’t running safely will just be blamed on the unions with the Tories
Have you ever worked around a railway? The inspectorate takes no prisoners and a big accident with untrained staff will see directors at a risk doing time at Her Majesty's Pleasure.
Coming up next... Agency postal workers who nick your mail and parcels during the postie strike, instead of delivering it. Or posting it back into post boxes, because they are shocked at how physical the job is and the pace many posties work at.
The story he tried to get shut down now most viewed item on BBC 😂😂
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61869650
now most viewed item on BBC 😂😂
We should make this a sticky for a few days, and get everyone to just keep clicking on it...
The idea of being able to just replace striking workers with agency workers is bloody stupid
Every idea* they come up with is bloody stupid. Don't worry though. Think of it as mood music as they serenade their unhinged racist pensioner core vote in the run up to a by-election and then instigate a culture war with the trade unions through the summer
None of this is intended to make it into actual reality. Its hardly like its ever had more thought than the initial three word soundbite they fart out into the press. They're simply too lazy to put the hard yards in to make anything happen. Its just picking the right fights to keep their unhinged backbenchers onside, who are too stupid to realise that like the Rwanda policy, none of this stuff ever actually materialises.
You do have to wonder why they're even that bothered about being in power. Other than handing their mates corrupt contracts, there doesn't seem an awful lot of point to any of it
* the word is used figuratively in this instance and does not suggest any actual thinking taking place
The story he tried to get shut down now most viewed item on BBC 😂😂
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61869650/blockquote >
It's interesting how they don't mention he was married to someone else at the time and she was his bit on the side.
After a day of hearing Johnson’s ministers repeating the call for “pay discipline” across all tv and radio channels… I come across this…
Downing Street has asked ministers to ease restrictions on City bosses’ pay in a bid to show overseas companies the “benefits of Brexit”
Kerching!
tthew
Full MemberThe idea of being able to just replace striking workers with agency workers is bloody stupid.
I'm amazed they've not declared they're sending in the army yet.
crazy-legs
Full Member
Apparently he’s now recovering from an op on his nose. Hmmmm.Reverse Pinocchio.
LOL
Also its the same people on both threads so what is the problem?
The amount of posts trying to police the thread outnumbers the supposed OT posts.
Could just have a politics thread...
The story he tried to get shut down now most viewed item on BBC 😂😂
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61869650/blockquote >
It’s interesting how they don’t mention he was married to someone else at the time and she was his bit on the side.
Newsnight coverage very much about the closing down of the story, rather than the content and context of it…
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1539009946100060162?s=20&t=8aYslwLi1sbn5U5XaQ_mvA
After a day of hearing Johnson’s ministers repeating the call for “pay discipline” across all tv and radio channels… I come across this…
Downing Street has asked ministers to ease restrictions on City bosses’ pay in a bid to show overseas companies the “benefits of Brexit”
It's already started of sorts.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/royal-mail-boss-handed-140000-27264328
This plonker was Managing Director of the NHS COVID-19 App, NHS Test and Trace, Department of Health and Social Care.
While posties offered 2% "no strings" from next month by executive action, or a massive slash of numerous T&Cs for another ~1.5%.
Royal Mail's chief executive officer Simon Thompson got an overall annual pay and perks package worth £753,000. The deal included a 'short-term' bonus of £142,000
That’s not inconsiderable, is it. Is that what “pay discipline” looks like at the top?
Could just have a politics thread…
Don’t be daft people might disagree with each other.
The amount of posts trying to police the thread outnumbers the supposed OT posts.
The part that grates is I absolutely know if I was coming on here to applaud Starmer against Johnson no one would say a thing.
It's the sensitivity that the leader of the opposition has failed to inflict substantial damage on Johnson that's the problem otherwise the frustrations wouldn't end in a tirade of lefty insults.
Call me old fashioned but Labour are supposed to be lefty. And in that context I'm going to join this thread whenever I see fit.
It ought to be ever so slightly obvious that to be pragmatically against Johnson you have to be to the left, and supporting values that are pushing back against the Tories in general.
If you want to come and join the other thread then and talk up Starmer or attack Johnson please do.
Which thread does the by-election go in?
(I mentioned Johnson four times in this post and Starmer twice. I hope that qualifies.)
You're never more than a few days away from another Johnson scandal popping up.
Government by crisis mismanagement
Newsnight last night was superb. The odious twerp Chris Phillips, Minster for Whatever, who is the full Alan B’stard, was reeling off the usual bullshit, while Mick Lynch did what I wish more people would do with these liars and just repeatedly called him a liar and pointed out all the multiple lies he was telling
https://twitter.com/ukiswitheu/status/1539007405266194438?s=21&t=U5qhLXg7F9I4SPc6Fm-qvQ
It ought to be ever so slightly obvious that to be pragmatically against Johnson you have to be to the left
See this is the bit you can't your head around, under normal politically situations if you want to beat the Tory you need to be left of the Tory, but that doesn't mean left, could be centrist or even right of center. That's where the country generally is, a proper left government is not going to happen because the public are not enmass left wing, Starmer knows this, Corbyn proved it, Blair realised it and actually got elected.
Back on topic, doesn't matter where your politics lie with Johnson, he has no politics, he has to ousted through populism, ie the other guy needs to be more popular, then we might have a chance of getting back to proper politics.
Good luck with 'getting back to proper politics' ?
My money's on another "personality".
but that doesn’t mean left, could be centrist or even right of cente
In the latter case the tories win with the entire system being dragged rightwards. This is clearly demonstrated in both the UK and the USA.
Starmer knows this, Corbyn proved it, Blair realised it and actually got elected.
What Blair knew was the trick of co-opting the left and traditional voters would only work for a period. After a while they would get disillusioned and leave his party which only cared about the swing voters. I am not sure he realised quite how damaging it would be with the result of making all those people vulnerable to the brexiteers and others who actually promised a change, any change.
A representative of the rail operators is on Five Live at the moment, pointing out that they haven't asked for a relaxation of the laws about agency workers and would not want to do that even if the government did change the law.
He's pointed out that it would just poison relations, simply dragging out the dispute which will inevitably need a negotiated settlement, it simply won't work and on a practical level; where on earth do the government think all these trained rail workers are going to suddenly materialise from
He's saying that he government hasn't even consulted the rail industry, aren't interested what they want anyway and they're just going ahead and doing it because they want to start a fight with the unions for political reasons, so they can water down workers rights across the board. Overall they think it will be counterproductive and the rail operators have no intention of using agency workers
And that is coming from a representative for the rail operators, that renowned hotbed of revolutionary socialism
under normal politically situations if you want to beat the Tory you need to be left of the Tory, but that doesn’t mean left, could be centrist or even right of center.
What do you mean "under normal politically situations"? This is a normal political situation - we have a Tory majority government with Tories behaving like Tories.
Sure the Tory Party is very much associated as the party of austerity and at the present austerity is a non-issue, and taxation policies, especially the windfall tax, are not those that are generally associated with Tories. But in most respects they are behaving as you would expect Tories to behave.
What is weird though, is people who claim that the Tories are currently so horrendous, and their policies are so unbelievably awful, that it requires an exceptional response from the Opposition which is based in mimicking Tory policies and not offering anything significantly different.
Or even better not offering any policies or alternative at all, which appears to be the current strategy.
If this attitude is based on the alleged appeal of the Tories to the electorate then the obvious alternative is to do a better job explaining why Tory policies are wrong and offering a clear and credible alternative.
Rather than the "if we can't beat them let's join them" attitude, and doing the damn hardest not to appear different.
Approximately two thirds of the electorate do not vote Tory so the appeal of Tory policies are often massively overstated.
So this is now the Starmer thread, yeah?
Where the same 5 people repeat the same viewpoint over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over to each other and collectively shout down anyone who dares not to agree with them?
Just checking, so I can avoid this one now too