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Ian Hislop said something similar on HIGNFY once.
Double their current pay.
Then ban any expenses claims beyond absolute necessities like travel for constituent business only (none of this decorating second homes, duckponds, every sodding food shop at Waitrose...), ban any second jobs (we're told how busy MPs are yet they all seem to have time to take on second jobs...), ban any donations to individuals, it all has to go through an independent Committee and funds go to the party so there can be no "buying off" a politician locally.
Remove most of the subsidy on the bar and restaurants - everyone else has to buy a lunch at work out of their own pocket.
Then see how many of them stick around "to serve the people"...
there are a lot of good hard working ones that deserve every penny they get and would be easily capable of earning more in the private sector.
Really? They would be able to get a job paying the top 5% of wages? Name one who is remotely qualified for a job earning that much
Yep. There's a MMT (magic money tree) when it comes to expenses, free houses, foreign holidays. No fiscal probity there.
There isn't any point in me naming anyone as you would disagree as you think £80k is excessive.
There are plenty careers in which people can easily earn over £80k (not me though just so we are clear)
Law
Medicine
Engineering
Consultancy
Its all about perspective, to some 80k is excessive to others its not enough.
very few MPs would be able to earn anything like £80 000 in the real world doing a real job – partly because jobs paying that much are vwery few and far between
Except they're not - not really. If an MP's salary is £80k which is a smidge above the 96th percentile (according to 2019 data which is the latest I could find) of employees, then that means that 1 in 25 is earning more. NB that's employees so wouldn't include company directors or people with familial wealth. 1 in 25 doesn't seem that much to me.
Divide that down by the demographics that apply to MPs (*well-educated, often a high level of family wealth etc) and multiply by their skillset (networking, personable, good negotiating, hard-working etc). I bet they wouldn't consider themselves high earners among their friends & peers.
It's also nowhere near enough to stop people from being tempted to leverage their position for other salaries (from legal stuff like speaking fees, consulting, down to financial market manipulation / insider trading etc). I don't really subscribe to the argument that they should be paid more in order not to break the law. But then I believe that there should be honour in these high offices and look where we are...
* NB loads of generalisations here.
What I would have liked to have said but phrased far better than I would have managed. I agree entirely.
excel of Hospital trust and authority pay scales
The only ones that come close to the level of MP are roles like Head of Facilities at a small trust. The median wages for most senior roles in NHS trusts are more or less double what an MP gets as a basic. I would expect some MPs to be able to do some of these roles. If you went from running a large NHS trust to becoming an MP (not inconceivable) you'd take a pretty substantial pay cut
There are plenty careers in which people can easily earn over £80k (not me though just so we are clear)
Law
Medicine
Engineering
Consultancy
Very few in those professions will earn significantly more than £80 000 pa
Medical consultant - I put the pay scale above. GPs earn a bit more. Law - again trial barristers will and equity partners in top firms but the majority of lawyers are not in these posts
engineering - again a very few at the top
You have a very skewed idea of what folk earn
do you really think an MP is worth a lot more and is a harder job than being a medical consultant or a head teacher?. remember this is back benchers we are talking about - ministers get a good chunk more
The median wages for most senior roles in NHS trusts are more or less double what an MP gets as a basic.
Only if you exclude the medical consultants, the nurse managers etc. they don't count as senior roles?
How many folk get those salaries?
do you really think an MP is worth a lot more and is a harder job than being a medical consultant or a head teacher
No, which is why i stated earlier that most public sector works are underpaid.
I think we shall agree to disagree, you think 80k is a massive salary, I think its a good salary for sure but realise more is available elsewhere.
Once again we see here the massively skewed ideas of what people earn
There is no qualification to be an MP. No training, no set of standards. The back bench MP is a simple job and paid far in excess of what these people would get outside of parliament with their skills for the vast majority of them. This means it attracts the wrong sort of people. those after the money not those with a public service ethos.
simple job
Not if you are doing it properly. And definitely not if you are an opposition MP
excess of what these people would get outside of parliament with their skills for the vast majority of them
Just something you have decided is true.
those after the money not those with a public service ethos.
This is only true for the ones earning silly money for dodgy 2nd jobs.
the nurse managers etc. they don’t count as senior roles?
Director of Nursing at a larger trust is on about £150,000. Most GPs are on about £10.5k a session with will give them about the same as an MP's salary. I don't think I'd want a constituency of 90-100K people while earning "about" the same as a local doctor with a patient load of 2500 people (give or take), with all the public exposure that being an MP entails.
Plus of course there's the matter of getting there in the first place. This Sky news piece thinks the average candidate spends about £118,000 to become an MP.
Klunk's tweet basically says "I will reward disloyalty", imagine how you'd feel if you're one of the poor useless idiots that's been parroting the party line all the way from Paterson to Hancock to Partygate and suddenly some guy that's <gasp> belatedly done the right thing gets offered a promotion? How else are you supposed to progress in the tory party other than unrelentingly fellating the boss?
Also there are only 650 MP's so hedging your bets on getting there "from out with the club" is definitely not the easiest way to go and try earn £85k. Certainly more secure jobs, some might only have a short term before having to go back to what they were doing before.
How much do you think someone like Nadine Dorries could earn on the open market?
The back bench MP is a simple job and paid far in excess of what these people would get outside of parliament with their skills for the vast majority of them
Whilst I agree that MPs pay and particularly expenses and second jobs needs to be reviewed to avoid it being exploited, £80k is not as excessive as you think it is - there's at least one (senior) civil servant based in our Nottingham office on that, a mate of mine comfortably makes that in IT. As shown above, if one in 25 people earn an MPs salary, that's one person in every school class - it's not shockingly excessive*.
And if its done properly - and "if" is doing a lot of lifting there - it's not an easy job, especially for MPs who spend half their lives away from their homes and families to be in Westminster.
*and I'm bang on average wage, and have been for about the last 15 years.
Another one, John Stephenson (Carlisle)…
I wonder how many more before the Jubliee weekend…
How much do you think someone like Nadine Dorries could earn on the open market?
She could probably make a few £100/month doing medical trials, preferably something veterinary related.
Another one, John Stephenson (Carlisle)…
We did Stevenson on the previous page, before the sidestep into MPs wages.
I wonder who's next...?
You only need 2 GCSE's to be a train driver and they get £50k per year.
I think the base salary is easily generous enough.
Expenses vary - some MP's take the proverbial, some don't.
What we need is more engagement with the electorate. I'd rather have good MP's, than rich ones.
Train drivers also have to do mental health tests, that I'm pretty sure the average mp would fail.
Wasn't there a report into MP's 2nd jobs a while ago, it turned out the roles in the Tory party were ones that improve their wealth & not help people, while those in Labour were ones that helped people.
She could probably make a few £100/month doing medical trials, preferably something veterinary related.
Considering she has set up and sold a successful business, been a director of BUPA and sold 2.5 million books, her earning capacity is pretty significant.
Nadine Dorries might be Nadine Dorries but she has sold a few million novels....
We've done the wages thing many times before, there's freelance techies amongst others on this forum who earn as much. I'm with Hislop, double the pay and cut the perks and extra jobs. Most Tory MP's are in it for the extras, remove them and you, err, remove them.
We should be able to point at our representatives and say "you've got one job to do..."
How else are you supposed to progress in the tory party other than unrelentingly fellating the boss?
There is no other way since Brexit. It is such a stupid idea that anyone with enough cash/kudos in the bank pissed off sharpish. Ken Clarke, Fiscal Phil Spreadsheet etc.
All that was left is all that was ever going to be left:
Utter halfwit Brexity loons.
Those that stayed to advance their own bank balances or status.
That is literally 'it'. To be educated enough to be in parliament means that, to believe in Brexit, you need to be either mentally unhinged, an exploiter, or some combination of the two.
This is a result of the reverse IQ test that is Brexit.
Nadine Dorries might be Nadine Dorries but she has sold a few million novels….
Which makes you wonder, given that she is fabbo wealtho darling, what life event turned her into such a vile person.
Birth.
I am another one in the pay them more, give them a fixed 'assistant rate' camp but take away most of the expenses and second jobs. We could get Premier Inn to build an MP's hotel in Westminster.
Good MP's are worth the money and it must be a hard job when done right.
^^^^
Something like that is the way to go. Plus being an ex-MP isn't exactly a bad thing to have on your CV if you do jack it in for more dosh in the big wild world. Unless you've been caught in flagrante somehow, that is.
With the state of the HoC estate & billions required to spend on it, build a new purpose built site, including accommodation and offices , facilities etc. Make it on an old brownfield site with good connections.
Oh and Marina Hyde is on good form as well.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/31/pounds-ounces-pints-boris-johnson-gibberish
Lord Geidt wants answers, he won't get them but he's appearing to want them
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61653755
With the state of the HoC estate & billions required to spend on it, build a new purpose built site, including accommodation and offices , facilities etc. Make it on an old brownfield site with good connections.
And in Manchester or Sheffield
There needs to be complete reform of Parliament, from our voting systems, the way that political parties are funded and the role of advisors etc to provide greater transparency and accountability. Parliament should operate like a modern business with shared services for IT, admin and all staff employed under a single framework agreement. MP’s should only be able to claim expenses under HMRC rules and all not allowed to employ family members. Hell will freeze over and pigs will fly sooner than under the current administration.
With the state of the HoC estate & billions required to spend on it, build a new purpose built site, including accommodation and offices , facilities etc. Make it on an old brownfield site with good connections.And in Manchester or SheffieldWith no car parking. Plenty of bike parking but only that, buses and trains to get to work. We'd soon have HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail built then! Plus a network of safe segregated bike lanes. And possibly an overhaul of driving law too - it'd only take one MP to end up half under a taxi before there'd be a host of rewrites to road justice and sentencing.
I've said it many times £7bill will buy a lot of accommodation, security, secretarial staff. In purpose built buildings.
Has Geidt finally grown a pair?
There seems to have been quite a shift in sentiment in the past 24 hours; is the road beginning to run out for johnson?
I struggle to believe he's not diabetic. With a BMI of 35 and free access to all that taxpayer funded booze and cake and even horseface seems to have done a runner it might be a good idea to give it a rest. Just do us all a favour.
Has Geidt finally grown a pair?
There seems to have been quite a shift in sentiment in the past 24 hours; is the road beginning to run out for johnson?
Geidt probably concerned that he looks complicit in this
I bet Gray similarly tries to make similar moves.
The Tory party will take some time to wash the Johnson stink off
The headline you won't see on the front page of tomorrow's mail, torygraph or express...
PM's adviser in 'PM wouldn't accept my advice' shocker.
Some of the Vox-pops on the radio this afternoon suggested the Tory grass roots are starting to comprehend the situation they are in. The "Red Meat" or various tunes played on a dog whistle aren't really appealing now. And if they (or their MPs) let him persist in post until the GE it will almost certainly be lost. Who'd a thunk it? Conservative voters actually thinking a bit longer term 😉
Anyway if there's a VONC coming it won't be announced before Monday, but part of me thinks this is all just press hype and Borisconi will cling on like particularly sticky shit to an extra fluffy blanket.
An interesting point they made on R4 was that if there is a VONC against Big Dog, it will also mean a clearing of the front bench, and it's quite possible that a new leader could come from the back benches or junior ministerial ranks if they're not too tarnished. So who's your money on now?
Penny Mordaunt has apparently been talked about as has Mark Harper (Chief Whip) both are probably "Brexity" enough for general Tory consumption, although probably lack high enough profiles. While Esther McVey is apparently seen as representing "working class conservatism" if they want to try and hang on the the Red wall seats...
I reckon it could be another wide open contest for the poisoned chalice again, assuming Bunga-Boris does finally take the tumble he deserves...
Is there a dumbojo jnr of suitable age that he can anoint as his successor?
Liz Truss. the new leader will be her. She tickles the fancy of the back benches and the membership
If anyone in the Tory party has had the measure of Johnson, it’s Dominic Grieve. He wasn’t holding back tonight, calling him a ‘serial liar’ and saying he won’t resign as ‘he’ll have to have his fingers prised from the window ledge’
“He is shameless and needs to be removed from office”
https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/1531724192663625729?s=21&t=hq0ClCsigsdMBOkuRL1TZA
Does anybody seriously think Liz Truss could win a General election?
She has the mental age of a sixth former.
If anyone in the Tory party has had the measure of Johnson, it’s Dominic Grieve.
After long being the acceptable face of Toryism Grieve was kicked out of the party, stood as an independant and lost. So not in the Tory party.
Does anybody seriously think Liz Truss could win a General election?
She has the mental age of a sixth former.
She doesn't need to win a GE, she needs to win the support of the party to become its new leader.
She'll harness her inner Thatcher, do some more cringey TikTok stuff (remember how Theresa May came onto stage once at the Tory Party Conference to Dancing Queen? - well it'll be like that but on the internet. And at least three times as bad.)
And the Tory Party will fondly believe that she's "reconnecting to the young voters" or something and she'll win the leadership contest.
What odds do I get on the above?
Also - where the hell are Carrie and the two kids?
Ooh I think she’s in hiding.
I am here already with the gays
Somethings definitely stirring,either illicit liaisons or more brutal party gate revelations.
And the Tory Party will fondly believe that she’s “reconnecting to the young voters” or something and she’ll win the leadership contest.
Is that people over 50 🙂
That's what Dorris was doing with her online safety song, apparently.
Does anybody seriously think Liz Truss could win a General election?
She has the mental age of a sixth former.
at the risk of being sneery, have you seen the electorate?
She has the mental age of a sixth former
Generous.
I do not believe Truss could win a GE. I think her dimness would be horribly exposed. I do think tho she is likely to win the ballot amongst the tory faithful
crazy-legs
Full Member
Also – where the hell are Carrie and the two kids?
Where Indeed
https://twitter.com/coldwarsteve/status/1530232564119502848?t=GsymveAcHTMIit4zOoaK6w&s=19
Raab was doing the rounds this morning.
The latest line appears to be: yes, he broke the ministerial code, but how was he supposed to know that?
I do not believe Truss could win a GE
*Thinks backs to 2017 and the May-bot campaign*...You sure about that?
yes
may was only able to cobble together a slim majority with the DUP and because labour in Scotland made sure the tories won 8 extra seats. She also was facing an opposition in turmoil
May is neither as dim or venal as Truss. For all I loathe May as a tory she did at least have a public service ethos
And her campaign was a shambles. Absolute shambles, all her speeches were terrible, she sounded robotic, and disconnected, and she still won.
Liz Truss is pretty popular amongst Tories, They'd probably come out their droves to vote for her. (edited with newer polling)
Yes - thats why she is likely to get the leadership because she is popular amongst the 50 000 tory members. Thats all that chart shows. Notthat tory voters would vote for her in a GE
However completely repellent to the floating voters she would need to win a GE
Why do you follow me around the forum to attack everything I say? Its tiresome. What is your issue? If I said the sky is blue you would be in there straight away with some bogus proof its yellow. You do this constantly.
I didn’t realise Borisconi had two kids with Carrie Antoinette. I know he has lots of kids in general but that one passed me by. Poor kids.
That Cliff Richard reference is mint!
Why do you follow me around the forum to attack everything I say? Its tiresome.
I've explained this: It's in your head. I don't treat you any differently to another poster on the forum. How you read my posts is entirely up to you, But all that's happening here is that we discuss the same things on the same threads The idea that I have some personal animus against you, is forgive me, a bit narcissistic.
Nickc - its totally obvious you do this. What is your problem? ( actually I am sure I know 🙂 You prove it again with the derogatory personal attacks but you make sure you have plausible deniability )
You make up bogus nonsense to attack me constantly and on this thread are several examples. the latest one you use stats that prove my point to tell me I am wrong
If you do not realise you are doing this its even more concerning. Its so obvious. Now you try to gaslight.
I'm torn on whether I want a grown up to be voted into the conservative leadership so we don't all suffer whilst BJ self-felates his ego into our oblivion, or to continue with the government imploding.
Watched this yesterday and Mr Stewart makes a very good point in that as an opposition Starmer and Rayner don't have a clear economic policy to counteract the shitbaggery of the govt.
Rory Stewart interview
However much i like Starmer and Rayner - it's not clear what they would do with the economy. Although maybe inaction would be better than what this lot are trying to do with a trade war looming with the largest economic union
Nickc – its totally obvious you do this. What is your problem?
TJ I literally couldn't give a shit about you (in the nicest possible way), i don't actually pay much attention to who writes a post, I just read it. Honestly whatever you think is going on, it isn't.
I don't know what else to say really. That I hold some personal gripe with you, is fantasy, sorry
I didn’t realise Borisconi had two kids with Carrie Antoinette. I know he has lots of kids in general but that one passed me by. Poor kids.
Yeah, the second one arrived with less fanfare than the first. Wilfred and Romy.
As if being fathered by BJ wasn't bad enough!
Pics of therm are very few and far between though other than carefully curated "happy family" shots. They never appear anywhere else and Carrie herself has gone from conspicuous consort to almost invisible, in pics and on social media. Weird.
Can't say I blame her to be honest.
I don’t know what else to say really
Best just to say nothing and let it fizzle out.
As if being fathered by BJ wasn’t bad enough!
Someone needs a lesson about the birds and the bees 😛
Can someone explain that Cold War Steve tweet to idiots like me?
@elshalimo I believe the person represented opposite Carrie is Zac Goldsmith. Google and twitter may reveal the rest.....
You are behaving as a bully and its really unpleasant.
Nick replies and argues against all my points too. I've never once thought he is a bully or has a problem, quite the opposite in fact. If it helps I also know for a fact that you're wrong. Nick doesn't need me to defend him, but I know him IRL and know he would never bully anyone, so please take my word for it.
This place/thread is no more than a university debating club. If you have a problem with people disagreeing with you or arguing against your views, the solution is simple, don't go to the debating club. I hope you don't, because debating club is a better place with both you and Nick, but please lighten up a bit. This stuff isn't important.
Can someone explain that Cold War Steve tweet to idiots like me?
There's a rumour floating around that Carrie may be more than just friends with Zach Goldsmith and BJ may not be the father of her second child
Thanks
Maybe Carrie learned that trick from her husband?
As Coldwarsteve posts go, that one's easy-peasy.
TJ - I'm not trying to gaslight you at all, but you're dealing with some of the forum's most pathological arguers. It probably isn't personal.
Loved CWS's lamp. Very good. Unless it goes all ad hom, and just withdraw if that does happen, it's all just a jolly exchange of points, views and sometimes humour.
Private Eye has been satirising the alleged Carrie/Zac pre-Johnson angle for a while now, less so since the first child, but I am still waiting for my latest copy to arrive to see what they say now.