You can call Johnson a liar because its been proven he is. Its that simple. when he lied to the queen over prorogation of parliament and was caught out then he has no answer to being called a liar. You cannot libel someone with the truth
apologies nickc, I didn't realise he'd done that as well!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48689834
Starmer polls higher than corbyn or milliband ever did
Citation needed
Less low according to the graph 😉
https://twitter.com/DylanSpielman/status/1457690515604914182?t=Sb1TQB9txzRBlmNNdzydYw&s=19
Starmers personal approval ratings above millibands or corbyn too, I'll find that one too
Edit I see nick has done it
This is why the Tories will be worried if they can't replace Johnson with someone who lacks Johnsons charisma (I also think its why they went ditch him)
Corbyn was at zero at best so Starmer was more popular until March
You can call Johnson a liar because its been proven he is. Its that simple.
Probably (as Blackford has shown) Whether it would make the slightest dent in Johnson or the Tories as a whole is another matter altogether.
apologies nickc, I didn’t realise he’d done that as well!
None needed, Blackford quietly picks away at Johnson in a way that Starmer doesn't or won't. He's often very effective, but gets ignored because: Scotland
Bklackford is a grandstanding idiot. I have no time for him.
Starmer polls higher than corbyn or milliband ever did
Those two well known general election winners and transformative Prime Ministers.
As the Johnson magic fades, there is no evidence that Starmer has what he takes to capitalise on it. When/if the Conservatives swap leader, and get a bit of a bounce ready for another election, I fear Starmer’s popularity will just stay on the floor. For me, he said all the right things at the CBI yesterday… but so what? His forgettable charisma free delivery means that next to no voters will even notice, never mind care, what he said.
People in England only generally get to see Blackford at PMQs, which is by definition "a grandstanding event" I can forgive him for taking the opportunity offered to him to have a wider platform. Starmer can be quite dull, it's often Blackford IMO who hits the spot harder.
Those two well known election winners and transformative Prime Ministers.
Never said it was good enough to win, but the point is any leader can fall into negative opinion pretty quickly (the time between calling an election and voting day is over a month? ) , Starmers anonymity possibly helping there!
Johnson has until now been the exception to the rule
Starmer can be quite dull
After the last 5 years I'd take 'Dull but competent' in a heartbeat and I suspect a fair chunk of the population would too.
Surely the PM's speech was classic "look over there, squirrel!" tactics. This week no-one is talking about Owen Patterson of Geoffrey Cox, they are not talking about Brexit woes and not really even talking about Social Care bill which passed on the same day.
Simple distraction tactics, nothing more, nothing less. Yet the media and voters seem to fall for it.
I'm not great with graphs tbh but there was lots of talk not long ago about how Starmer was polling worse than Corbyn at same stage of their leadership. The second Dylan Spielman graph is absolute gibberish to me. I'm afraid.
And are Labour currently predicted to make the 40% vote share Corbyn achieved in 2017?
Simple distraction tactics, nothing more, nothing less. Yet the media and voters seem to fall for it.
Your ascribing agency to incompetence
People are talking about leadership challenge, losing more authority is the last think he needs
even Ant & Dec ripped him after that speech
Those two well known general election winners and transformative Prime Ministers.
Plus both of those were under sustained and rabid attacks by the right wing press. With Starmer the right wing press doesnt seem to think he is worth it but will probably spin up going into the election
Simple distraction tactics
Up to a point. But when your chosen distraction tactic has the effect of everyone pointing out that you seem incompetent, it does have it's own drawbacks.
People are talking about leadership challenge, losing more authority is the last think he needs
Last thing he personally needs maybe but what about the Tory party/their backers/Rishi Sunak who is quite obviously being lined up...
Wouldn't surprise me at all if Johnson CBA any more and is happy to take one for the team and help manage the succession.
It's a pretty blatant diversionary tactic and I'm surprised people are still falling for it, but I guess I shouldn't be.
Surely the PM’s speech was classic “look over there, squirrel!” tactics.
Nah there are better ways to distract than provide another line of attack against you.
It was him being his normal lazy self and probably having spent the weekend emulating Churchill from the drinking side of things.
And are Labour currently predicted to make the 40% vote share Corbyn achieved in 2017?
Isn't there a whole thread devoted to this already?
It was him being his normal lazy self and probably having spent the weekend emulating Churchill from the drinking side of things.
Why can't it be this and a diversionary tactic?
Isn’t there a whole thread devoted to this already?
Well someone made the claim about Starmer in this thread, maybe take it up with them? Or maybe just resign from your role as volunteer thread policeman.
Others may be using Johnsons incompetence as cover but there is no way he did this deliberately as a distraction - this is and has been his SIOP for decades. He is not pretending anything nor is he some great machivellian master. He is what he appears to be - an incompetent with a lackadaisical attitude
I brought up Starmer, sorry. My point was...
"Not Boris Johnson" ... isn't enough for a Labour leader, if the Conservatives decide that they too can run a "not Boris Johnson" candidate.
Any replacement for Johnson can chose when to have an election and (try) to capitalise on a "new leader" bounce, while Labour are left with an "old" and not terribly engaging leader. It's a big risk for Labour (and a lot of people in the UK). So I don't think the Conservatives will be hugely worried if Johnson continues to flail and fail, they'll just push him aside... he gets to retire as the one who "got Brexit done", lots of money for him to make off the back of that, and we have yet another "new" Conservative party steaming into an election back on the front foot.
the person claiming libel would have to be able to show that they were not drunk! Very difficult for Johnson as its well known he is a drunk
Other way around, I'm afraid. The person who publishes it has to prove it. Which they would be highly likely to fail to do. His shambolic appearance is just his normal state...
Saying someone looked 'tired' would be fine. It's only the 'tired and emotional' phrase which is shorthand for pissed. Which is why the press has been repeatedly saying how tired he looks and wondering if he's lost the plot.
I CBA to find it TJ but watch the Charlie Brooker thing on Johnson from Newswipe I think it was. Why do you think he deliberately ruffles his hair in that ridiculous way? It's obviously not just an act but he has clearly deliberately fostered and exaggerated his 'loveable' rogue/buffoon character and found it very useful.
Grum. Yes he hams it up but he is not concealing a master manipulator. He is covering up that he really is a dimwitted buffoon
I wouldn't say master manipulator, more the low cunning of the narcissist/sociopath.
Pepper the Pig... Boris's new book ?
He is covering up that he really is a dimwitted buffoon
How very clever of him!
Even if he is potentially a fairly clever person, if you spend much of your life getting away with doing a half-arsed job and getting away with it thanks to charm/bluff/luck/connections/a sympathetic right wing press, then you're going to find you're right out of luck if you suddenly actually have to start putting the work in properly. What was once an act eventually becomes the reality.
you’re going to find you’re right out of luck if you suddenly actually have to start putting the work in properly
In this job maybe but no doubt when the jig is up as PM he'll walk straight into a series of highly paid consultancy roles and lucrative book deals/public speaking appearances etc, just on the basis of who he is.
Consultancies? Not a chance.
Sincerest? Yes.
you’re going to find you’re right out of luck if you suddenly actually have to start putting the work in properly
Oh aye…
They’re reporting that Rishi and his minions are furiously briefing against Boris. He clearly thinks he now has a shot at the top job. Well if Tory politics has taught us anything it’s that if he’s the one scheming, then he won’t get it. PM Truss it is then
Or Hunt?
Gove a possibility?
Hopefully Gove or Truss, and not Sunak or Hunt.
Sunak/Hunt would, I suspect be competent and stand a chance of winning a GE, and I for one am done with Conservative rule for at least a decade or 3.
Truss has even less personality than Starmer. Gove always gives the impression of being some sort of Machiavellian creep - his whole personality is just off-putting. Hunt is playing a clever game - a hitter who seems to be keeping out of the in-fighting, but who has occasionally popped up making some valid criticisms of the Government's response to Covid. Sunak comes across as a bit too polished and aloof, and Chancellors don't always make the best Prime Ministers.
If Liz Truss becomes PM I'm going to live in a cave.
Raab? I'd rank him as worse than Hunt or Gove, probably on par with Truss.
Truss has even less personality than Starmer.
She is well liked by the tory members though if you look at conservative home surveys.
Sunak has been busy branding everything positive as him and everything else as someone else. I think Macron is his role model which might not go down to well with the tory party.
what I don't get is given that Johnson's past is littered with speeches that he's fluffed, why this one's still a story 48hrs later?
I saw the picture of Cameron above and for one terrible, horrible moment thought he'd been to Peppa Pig World, too.
@nickc Just another thing to beat him with? Seems like his normally loyal press have decided its time to make him sweat.
I also noticed in the Guardian there is a story about him refusing to comply with requests to wear a mask in the theatre - if the right-wing press pick this up too it will be a very bad week for him. Another case of one rule for us, another for Boris..
what I don’t get is given that Johnson’s past is littered with speeches that he’s fluffed, why this one’s still a story 48hrs later?
This is what makes me suspicious shenanigans are afoot. He's not performing any worse now than he ever has but for some reason the RW press are suddenly calling him out on it constantly.
what I don’t get is given that Johnson’s past is littered with speeches that he’s fluffed, why this one’s still a story 48hrs later?
The rest of the Tory party has decided it will still be a story? The straw that broke the camel's back, not sure.
what I don’t get is given that Johnson’s past is littered with speeches that he’s fluffed, why this one’s still a story 48hrs later?
Because the "old" Johnson would have filled that dead time with apparent (but probably pre-prepared and ready to use when needed) ad libs. It was one of his few real skills. Without that kind of easy apparent freewheeling... what has he got left that his party and supporters want and need? It's a sign that he's not currently performing well, even by his own previous standards.
