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Back to the present charade: apparently the reason a lot of the new intake of MPs are resisting the call to back Johnson is that they think its going to be a repeat of the Owen Patterson affair, where they are whipped to publicly support a government position that then falls apart, leaving them looking like idiots.
So that would suggest that (probably like most sane people) they don't have an awful lot of confidence that Boris is going to be around for too much longer
I love that so many Tories seem invested in keeping Johnson, it just pours fuel on the dumpster fire
Wragg mentions taking complaints of blackmail to the Met. Don’t waste your time folks…
Wragg mentions taking complaints of blackmail to the Met. Don’t waste your time folks…
Because you don't think there's any criminal offence or because you think the met are in someone's pocket and don't care?
I don't think they are in anyone's pocket but they won't want to get drawn into anything that makes them take a side.
Fwiw, Jes Phillips was on the BBC2 Politics show over lunch, and said she'd had no dealings with Wakeford until the Paterson affair, when she said he'd been "absolutely torn" at being whipped to support the government position, and she reckoned that was when he decided to switch.
Now i still don't trust his motives, but her description seemed very genuine to me. Maybe leopards can belatedly change their spots.
But certainly Whips have always "threatened" action against MPs, that's what they do rightly or wrongly, Yes Minister covered it a lot. But from the fallout this time I get the impression that the threats were much more direct, and Wragg spoke of personal consequences. That sounded a bit more like blackmail than dark arts.
I watched something where a new (female) tory mp was publicly calling for Vat to be scrapped on gas bills but then went on to vote against cutting the vat. Which to me seems to be that they are made to vote for the government as opposed to what they actually want.If I find it I will post it up.
Which to me seems to be that they are made to vote for the government as opposed to what they actually want.If I find it I will post it up.
That's generally the case, no? That's what Whips are for, and why rebellions are news.
The Stoke North MP last night on channel 4 was particularly egregious; he ranted about 'captain hindsight' and 'chasing the woke agenda' in his defence of BJ. Then we had the spectacle of Jake Berry on Newsnight. Just awful people
I watched something where a new (female) tory mp was publicly calling for Vat to be scrapped on gas bills but then went on to vote against cutting the vat.
I think that is Miriam Cates MP.
She seems to be a) the latest cannon fodder for BoJo with some appearances the last couple of days and b) happily say one thing one day and do / say / vote a different way the next.
My ex-tenant...
That’s generally the case, no? That’s what Whips are for, and why rebellions are news.
Yes I get what whips are for but what I didn't realise is how totalatarian it seems to be (I thought the whips were only really used for the bigger issues) which is worrying as we have a cabinet of yes men being led by a dumpling and he has almost total control of the (new tory 2019) backbenchers. we are relying on the nutcases to bring him down.
That’s generally the case, no? That’s what Whips are for, and why rebellions are news.
Indeed they are.
But there are regulatory (Parlimentary Code of Conduct stuff) and moral limits.
Beyond that there are also legal limits.
falkirk-mark
I watched something where a new (female) tory mp was publicly calling for Vat to be scrapped on gas bills but then went on to vote against cutting the vat. Which to me seems to be that they are made to vote for the government as opposed to what they actually want. If I find it I will post it up.
If you are an evil kill the poor kind of person then publicly saying you aren't is probably wise if you still want votes.
Don't just assume the default intentions of people are good.
I watched something where a new (female) tory mp was publicly calling for Vat to be scrapped on gas bills but then went on to vote against cutting the vat. Which to me seems to be that they are made to vote for the government as opposed to what they actually want.If I find it I will post it up.
This may just be her deciding to follow the whip when the vote came, ie following the instructions. Difficult to tell what, if any pressure other than that was involved.
Then we had the spectacle of Jake Berry on Newsnight. Just awful people
What's Jake the Snake been up to now?
That’s generally the case, no? That’s what Whips are for, and why rebellions are news.
It leads to perverse outcomes too. The ultimate example being Frank Spencer, who was apparently so good at digging dirt on senior Tories (despite being utterly useless at everything else) that as a result he was consistently over-promoted, his utter incompetence tolerated and has now been offered a nighthood to keep him quiet. Apparently he's got allsorts on Johnsons wardrobe full of skeletons, as well as other senior tories
I mean this is hardly subtle, is it?
A whip underneath 'the book' which contains all their (no doubt numerous) indiscretions. So the whips system enables the advancement of, and hands power to tragic little inadequates like him
At least he complies with the clean desk policy.
"Boris Johnson: I've seen no evidence of plotters being blackmailed"
There, fixed. That's put my mind at rest
As with Trump and some comments above, all this can still be ringfenced around the Kleiner Hund with simple 'I wasn't shown the email' and 'My staff didn't do their job, they will resign.'
And even if it did stick, a core of Tories are now showing (again) that they are prepared to do whatever it takes, no matter how immoral or illegal, to do what they are told for fear of personal loss or personal gain.
Erm... Way to support your glorious leader and party Mike!
https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/1484112611616735233
I was told by Tory MPs, at the height of the Rashford row, that members of the govt were threatening to withhold money from schools in their (deprived) constituencies if they voted to extend free school meals.
They really are completely morally bankrupt, aren't they? Every time you think they can't sink lower, they trump the last outrage.
Imagine actually being the sort of person who happily issues that level of threat. Well... that photo of Frank Spencer/Gavin Williamson pretty much sums it up. They are completely devoid of the remotest hint of humanity
Maybe “threats” of the “you’ll never get a government job”, or “nice seat you have there, it would be a shame if something happened to it in the boundary review” are all normal whip practice… but this is corruption…
Claims whips have threatened to withdraw govt funding from rebellious MPs’ areas.
…at the expense of the public… puts MPs with a genuine public service ethic in an awful position.
We all knew what apparently went on behind the scenes but I would never have expected constituents lives affected like schools etc to make MPs submit to the Whips. I guess my eyes are more opened now to the depths politics will sink to protect one man over that of the country. I'd like to think more of this going public will make a difference, I suspect not.
Is it hard to just do your **** job!
Erm… Way to support your glorious leader and party Mike!
He could easily be mistaken for a parody account on Twitter.
I have just had a look at his Twitter and he has retweeted a parody account praising Boris!
https://twitter.com/MichaelTakeMP/status/1484095558117728259
Fabricant tweets idiotic stuff because he craves attention,
puts MPs with a genuine public service ethic in an awful position.
Did I wander into the wrong thread? Thought we were discussing the Tories here?! 😁
Thought we were discussing the Tories here?!
There is a mix of public service ethos and self interest in many MPs, of many parties. It’s not all full on altruists on one side of the house, and selfish pocket stuffers on the other. I’m not saying “they’re all as bad/good as each other”, they are not, but motivations vary in all parties.
EDIT: just noticed your emoji… sorry… I should have just laughed! 😁
Was vaguely pleased to see that the 'pork pie' conspiracists got their name from Alicia Kearns' constituency (Melton and Rutland) and she has a whopping majority, certainly not red wall.
My Tory MP is so awful he can't even get a job as cannon fodder.
I think that book on the table in the picture might be the Orange Book - civil service process manual on risk assessment for government.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/orange-book
Read what you will into that.
Edit: with apologies for introducing actual verifiable facts onto this thread.
We all knew what apparently went on behind the scenes but I would never have expected constituents lives affected like schools etc to make MPs submit to the Whips.
This has been going on for a long time and a large part of the corruption in our country - same as places with Tory MPs get better funding than others
this "revelation" is no surprise to me at all and IMO standard practice
Well, Andrew Bridgen has been on Radio4 saying those tactics were not used when May was under threat, or when Cameron was… that the bullying tactics are on another scale during this “operation Save Big Dog” period. And he wasn’t exactly a fan of May or Cameron.
The “I’ve seen no evidence” response about Wragg’s charge from the PM suggested he’s worried there may be some evidence about to be dumped… otherwise he’d go for an outright denial… this way he can sack a whip or two if need be, and hope to move on (to another mess).
It's bound to create loads of "being threatened by whips is normal", because that's one of the standard approaches now- "It doesn't matter if your jar of jam is just one massive angry wasp, because getting a bit of wasp in jam every so often is normal". Exact same as truck drivers- "Germany has shortages too".
So yeah being threatened with consequences of some sort is part of the process. Being threatened with attacks on your constituents shouldn't ever be. But they're both threats so people will make a false equivalence.
I think we should all take a moment to consider that Nadine Dorries, our Culture Secretary, who once ate an Ostrich anus on a TV gameshow has accused William Wragg MP of "attention seeking behaviour" for exposing blackmail within the Tory party
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60068612
BJ's previous distractions are quite costly, the bridge/tunnel fantasy has cost nearly a Cool million to prove that it's not feasible.
BJ’s previous distractions are quite costly, the bridge/tunnel fantasy has cost nearly a Cool million to prove that it’s not feasible.
That's the thing with Boris, as lovely as it is to watch him squirm, the sheer amount of tax payers money he simply flushes down the toilet on a daily basis, on a whim, with nothing to answer for, is deeeply shocking.
This is what happens when no one is watching the watchmen.
Another argument for reform, maybe PR, or a 'dominant party' cant hold more than X% of seats.
With an 80 seat majority they are untouchable unless they take themselves down from the inside, which it looks like they are going to do, but who will replace Borris the brat? someone more sinister and more shrewd, I fear.
And it's a long time until the next GE.
Nadine? You are what you eat.
Gosh it's lovely to see the Tories eat each other
https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1484286584304373774?t=tRZlpmX_mFlgUX7IUFTCXQ&s=19
Excellent, a Tory civil war seems to be underway.
It's not just Red Wall Tory MPs in the firing line, there's a queue of lorries stretching sixteen miles long, not six miles from my front door. The M20 is right now the largest public toilet in the world.
With any luck, the civil war between Johnson and the various bickering factions that make up the coalition of grifters and client journalists will rumble on for some time yet.
Oh and here's a sublime response to Nadine Dorries latest instance of verbal botty dribbles
The full horror of our situation has just been revealed. Liz Truss is going to Brussels next week to sort out the Northern Ireland Protocol. I wonder if she will bother to read it first? Actually no, I don't wonder. She won't.
AI wonder if she will bother to read it first? Actually no, I don’t wonder. She won’t.
A) I don't think that she can read it, much less understand it.
B) She'll only do what Michael Gove tells her to do.
It's probably getting near the time to bung the whole lot on an island, equip them with assault rifles and let them go full on Battle Royale.
Can you imagine this lot literally fighting for their lives when we see what they are like just fighting for their careers?
Sorry tho cross the streams but I dread to think what would happen if we need lockdown measures or such to fight a really nasty fugurecovid variant or such. They really would just let the country burn.
"Sorry tho cross the streams but I dread to think what would happen if we need lockdown measures or such to fight a really nasty fugurecovid variant or such. They really would just let the country burn."
You're not crossing threads. Essentially the government has announced that covid is over. "We beat the coronavirus" is just the latest dead cat.
Interestingly, going into some stores today (TK, Homebase etcetera), I thought that mask compliance was up on the last couple of weeks if anything, from both staff and customers.
Was this an act of political defiance, an big f*** you to the dear leader s₩announcing that the mask mandate finishes today? Probably.
Though also probably a sign that if there is another variant, we know were on our own from here on in.
I think we should all take a moment to consider that Nadine Dorries, our Culture Secretary, who once ate an Ostrich anus on a TV gameshow
I think we should all consider what the low point in our career would be
1) eating an osterich anus on a game show (or)
2) getting put on BBC breakfast or question time to defend Boris Johnson and being told to keep a poker face whilst doing it
I for one am struggling to pick
Was this an act of political defiance, an big f*** you to the dear leader s₩announcing that the mask mandate finishes today? Probably.
Nah it’s, a total loss of public trust in the goverment.
I’m looking forward to hearing how he’s cleared by Sue Grey.
I think that’ll become a future entry in the English dictionary ‘Waiting for Sue Gray’ just waiting for sue gray to see what the meaning will be 🙂
I wonder if it’ll be as good as the Russia report that he sat on for yonks one that didn’t bother to look into interference by Russia.
The party report that doesn’t look at parties,perhaps you have to have a stripper/hookers & Coke for it to be a party.
Food and drink on works premises after hours just showing the long hours put in by team Tory on the covid disaster as they valiantly try to save the nhs and us.
The party report that doesn’t look at parties,perhaps you have to have a stripper/hookers & Coke for it to be a party.
Balloons are the apparent official criteria. I doubt most of them would turn up if it didnt have the hookers and coke.
Balloons are the apparent official criteria.
Box of balloons, with the featherlight touch?
Might have saved Johnson a few quid over the years if he’d invested (younger readers can google Madness )
That list. Wow.
Of course in any kind of even vaguely moral organisation many of those people would have been investigated and thrown out rather than blackmailed.
Just goes to show how morally bankrupt our most successful political party is, and how traduced our opinion of politicians is that it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that this is how it works.
Interestingly, going into some stores today (TK, Homebase etcetera), I thought that mask compliance was up on the last couple of weeks if anything, from both staff and customers.
Just been in to Ilkeston, local bakery, Costa, Aldi - again, more mask wearing by staff and customers than usual.
the bridge/tunnel fantasy has cost nearly a Cool million to prove that it’s not feasible
what a waste of money, I would’ve been quite happy to tell him it was shit idea for half that
I am amused by the naivety of some of you. This is common practice and is well known as is bribing politicians ( disguised and legitimised). tories are perhaps worse but all parties do it
Its a large part of the reason our politics is so corrupt and dysfunctional. this sort of behaviour is normalised
Not much dirt on the ‘ Tory it’s okay to like’, Rory stewart
Once again he is speaking calmly, eloquently and sensibly. The best (Tory) PM we will never have*.
https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1484305993987067908
*I fully accept he is Tory and his voting record shows that but he is still a superb diplomat.
Definitely the best 2 minute takedown I've Johnson I've heard. So calm and yet so brutal.
I am amused by the naivety of some of you. This is common practice and is well known as is bribing politicians ( disguised and legitimised). tories are perhaps worse but all parties do it
Not really but that's certainly the story the right wing want to promote.
this sort of behaviour is normalised
Only by people repeating it as fact when it isn't.
nickjb - its been going on all the time I have followed politics - did you not see the bit about Ian McGregor in the 70s? ( or 80s?)
Agreed - Hunter S. Thompson wrote in depth about it in Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail.
Does anyone have a link to the alleged sh**list that the Tory whips have on their rebel MPs? I can't seem to find it on twitter.
PJM1974 It was on here via a twitter link but appears to have disappeared along with a bunch of posts referring to it
Rory Stewart has been talking sense for a long while:
WW definitely wasn't urinated on by 3 men if you are interested.
Does anyone have a link to the alleged sh**list that the Tory whips have on their rebel MPs? I can’t seem to find it on twitter.
It's fairly easy to find on Twitter if you search for the right term. Won't post anything here as it's clearly not welcome, I guess for legal reasons (as the provenance of the list seems to be unclear at best).
I guess for legal reasons (as the provenance of the list seems to be unclear at best).
Yes I would be rather nervous about if I had legal responsibility for the site or indeed possibly just reposting.
It is from a story back in 2017. Example news story referencing to the mostly anonymised version is:
And it looks like PP was the only non male member of cabinet not to accommodate KK
Oops. I didn't get the ban hammer, yay! Guess they really need my £3.50 a month or whatever it is. 🙂
I'm aware of a redacted document that was shared by Guido Fawkes, I won't speculate further. Clearly, the only thing that Gavin Williamson is good at is obtaining kompromat.
And it looks like PP was the only non male member of cabinet not to accommodate KK
If there were an additional K in that acronym, said cabinet member would be all over that in a flash.
Are we going to have to create a secret code to discuss the Tory party's members in future or will innuendo be enough for plausible deniability?
I think it's probably fairer to speculate upon who hasn't got an extensive collection of Nazi memorabilia in their cellar.
Rory Stewart is always worth listening to, whatever your politics.
My favourite observation of his was when he noted how governments always try to 'fix things', when in fact most things work pretty well, have done for centuries and just need a bit of fettling. In attempting to fix something, we stand more chance of breaking it for ever.
My local Tory MP likes to add nazi symbols to his own campaign signs to get sympathy.
He also gets donations from the 'Lankser Business Club' which is a club you can't join as they don't seem to exist...
This man is the Welsh Secretary of State for Wales!!!
I think it’s probably fairer to speculate upon who hasn’t got an extensive collection of Nazi memorabilia in their cellar.
Needs a bit more refining "in their cellar or on proud display in the living room/shrine in the bedroom".
This man is the Welsh Secretary of State for Wales!!!
As opposed to the Scottish Secretary of State for Wales.
As opposed to the Scottish Secretary of State for Wales.
tbf with Johnson it wouldnt completely surprise me. "close enough. Right back to handing 900k over to find out a bridge to the moon wont work".
This man is the Welsh Secretary of State for Wales!!!
As opposed to the Scottish Secretary of State for Wales.
Ironically, my poor sentence construction made me google him and it turns out he's from Wolverhampton!