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Boris is probably a sociopath, supported by a system that presented opportunities and more importantly allowed his obvious failings and idleness to have no repercussions.
In an alternative universe he would be a tramp shouting at pigeons in the park clutching his litre of white lightning.
I have met many people at very senior positions in large successful businesses over half of them to be honest are franky "shite" they have been fortunate by birth and privilege to simply "be there"
Its what this country is built on and why we struggle as a Nation state in the new world we operate in. It can not be changed it is welded/woven into education, entitlement, inheritance, old boys clubs.
Boris is the living, breathing embodiment. Closely followed by Cameron.
These are pretty important days, though. If he really can get away with all of this just by announcing a few crowd-pleasing policy moves and blaming his underlings, then it basically says he can do anything he likes. Also that making up government policy on the fly in a pandemic to save your premiership works. I don't think it will, but shit, if it does...
The BBC stuff is just bringing the endgame forward a bit but "let's stop all covid restrictions" is absolutely dangerous.
see him as very much a product of a broken and unfair society.
I think what you mean to say is he has taken advantage of and manipulated a broken and unfair society.
Broken and unfair societies are broken for everyone - I'm in a fairly unusual situation of getting to rub shoulders with both the homeless and generationally poor and the landed and inherited-wealthy - and I see the same self-destructive traits in both because they both feel isolated. We only generally see the damage inequality inflicts on the poor as there so, so many more of them in that unequal equation, and because the wealthy can buy themselves some privacy when their life is crashing.
The shame of the whole situation is the wealthy work harder than anyone perpetuate the inequality that does them just as much damage as anyone else.
He's not a victim ,he's a **** and I'll have a beer when he dies.
when their life is crashing.
More like
when they're crashing their life
Brian Klaas (Power Corrupts podcast) has book out that touches on why we allow ourselves to be ruled by people who are fundamentally unsuitable to rule. Expect he'll be popping up in media over the next few weeks or so.
Broken and unfair societies are broken for everyone – I’m in a fairly unusual situation of getting to rub shoulders with both the homeless and generationally poor and the landed and inherited-wealthy – and I see the same self-destructive traits in both because they both feel isolated. We only generally see the damage inequality inflicts on the poor as there so, so many more of them in that unequal equation, and because the wealthy can buy themselves some privacy when their life is crashing.
Whilst that is true@maccruiskeen, the poorer are more often keen to work to change society in a way which will benefit others like them, whilst the self-destructive privileged tend to seek to perpetuate and entrench and even enhance the system which has damaged them and others. Alexander isn’t looking to make things for anyone other than his posh-boy mates, and that impacts most of us here.
Sorry but living in Scotland I take exception to that statement , I think you will find the majority of Scots knew full well what he was (and didn’t vote for him), unless by nation you mean the English.
Take exception all you like, people in Scotland still voted for him, just like in Wales and England, The tories didn't win the majority of the votes at the last election, but you could see during the pandemic, johnsons popularity from people who may have been giving him the benefit of the doubt, let's just hope a few of them have realised what fools they were.
I'm with Zippy.... same as Thatcher.
Couldn't give a **** about poor people any of them.
More like
when they’re crashing their life
Like I said - 'self destructive'
Take exception all you like, people in Scotland still voted for him,
20% ish voted Tory. No one outside his constituency voted for him almost universally the scots tories have denounced him.
Can I predict we've 10 days of announcement and 'news' ahead of us while Boris and Conservatives desperately try to distract.
@gwaelod I heard Brian Klass on 5live in the week - really interesting take on power and the people that rise to it, well worth listening to him, or reading his book, which I must do. Explains a lot about people like dear old Boris and his cronies…
I’m a bit late to this, explains the Met’s lack of response
https://twitter.com/snigskitchen/status/1482022329240727564?s=21
Interesting about Javids brother.
Coke n hookers, I knew it
https://twitter.com/BartoszKielak/status/1482817512056266752?t=LSp9U6aWecmSutenaoPG6w&s=19
I’m just saying it’s really irrelevant what opportunities he had and it smacks of jealousy.
It’s not irrelevant … because without them he wouldn’t be PM.
Not necessarily true @kelvin
You think Johnson would have made to be PM without the opportunities given to him?
There’s full agreement a privileged background does not protect you from harm growing up. But it can also result in someone entirely unsuitable for office playing at being PM at a high cost to us all.
I heard Peter Bone, one of the more objectionable Brexity MPs, on the radio earlier saying he'd been out campaigning in his constituency and all he'd been told was positive stuff about Boris and the people wanted the Government and the country to "move on" from this nonsense.
It really does make it easy to find the most appalling MPs in the house; everyone who supports BJ is also an utter arse in everything else. Peter Bone voted against same-sex marriage, voted against the proposed "upskirting bill", campaigned for Brexit, opposed the National Minimum Wage... And supports Boris. What a ****.
johnsons popularity from people who may have been giving him the benefit of the doubt, let’s just hope a few of them have realised what fools they were.
I was talking to my dad the other day, who was admitting that Johnson wasn't doing great (this was before partygate really got going).
It was a complete revelation to him that it was well known that he was a habitual liar, who had been sacked twice for lying, and that this was common knowledge which could have been found with about 10 seconds of googling well before Brexit (which my dad voted for "because of immigrants") or the 2019 election.
Anyway, he voted for his next door neighbour at the council elections, a lovely guy who is the local Labour candidate. Of course, he didn't get in, but it's a start.
Following Operation Save Big Dog, the next one is Operation Red Meat.
Following Operation Save Big Dog, the next one is Operation Red Meat.
Given that it's basically a load of populist "appeal to the right-wing masses" stuff, they may as well have called it what it is. Operation Gammon.
The plan is definitely to release details of a new party each day so Sue Gray has to rewrite her report, ad infinitum
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/new-no10-party-revealed-boris-25962670?
@kimbers that FT story embargo is about the head of a major organisation who has just resigned as he breached COVID regs and so wasn't able to represent the organisation properly.
Amazeballs
Well if there is reincarnation I’d like to come back as someone in the same broken position as BJ.
Bet he’s got nice toys while currently crying in 120k+ worth of new furnishings, before he gets driven somewhere in a flash motor.
And even if it goes south a few column inches a week will soon sort it.
I think ‘Thatcha’ was a different animal to BJ thou and is probably turning in her grave over what he did with her eu deal.
Its what this country is built on and why we struggle as a Nation state in the new world we operate in. It can not be changed it is welded/woven into education, entitlement, inheritance, old boys clubs.
If folk want to read a well-written account of what happens when you've the 'wrong' folk in the 'wrong' positions I can highly recommend:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whatever-Happened-British-Motor-Industry/dp/1859604277
Or “The Establishment: And how they get away with it”.
TBH I gave up reading private eye as it made me annoyed how the samegames get played with no one being held accountable.
Or read none and feel happier.
Ignorance is bliss 🙂
I subscribe to Private Eye, possibly the only thing I took with me from the UK. I read it and get angry and I keep doing that week after week. If I did not, I would to tally dissociate myself from the UK and, while I have a new life in Sweden, part of me is not willing to do that yet.
Maybe one day, when I start forgetting my English a bit more, or finally recognise Swedish as my primary language, but not now.
what just happened there on BBC Breakfast - politics guy was talking about stuff to come this week, Gray report towards the end, Big Dog, Red Meat....blah blah blah and then said something that was bleeped out?? Something they've got info on been embargoed or what? I had to wind back on the SKY box but it's definite.
I think they bleeped out ...shore up the Prime Minister... About 08:13 on BBC Breakfast
Even the wealthy are less happy in unequal societies but unequal societies allow for disloyal malignant narcissists like Johnson, whose every relationship is transactional, to rise to the top. You think of all the BBC did to get him elected and Murdoch says ditch it to guarantee my continued support and so out it goes alongside a load of his minions.
There’s full agreement a privileged background does not protect you from harm growing up.
Not really. The whole boarding school system is pretty much geared up to produce damaged people by design. They are products; Johnson is an extreme for sure, but not so very different from other Etonians I've come across. A weird combination of 'easy charm', utter entitlement and detachment from normal emotional life and the little people.
There's a book about this, which has probably been mentioned here already, called Sad Little Men by Richard Beard. They're all still trying to govern the British Empire.
I guess you can argue that it's not Johnson's 'fault' he was shaped that way, but don't delude yourself that it's something his privilege has failed to protect him from, it's the reason he is that way.
Those places were designed to produce emotionally detached DCs for the colonies in the C19th. 'Buyer's remorse' indeed.
I'm enjoying the thought that if there is a puppet master behind all the leaks, they may be holding back a 'smoking gun' ready for then Johnson finally emerges from his bunker.
The next few days sound like they'll be 'fun' for us, a raft of new measures designed to please a few hundred Tory MPs most of us have never heard of, and the Pro-Tory press doing their best to down play it all, well, now they've got their headlines anyway.
Still, it's all starting to feel a bit like the end of the Thatcher / Major era, Thatcher might have been an Evil populist but Major was a decent Man and PM, but the Tories just can't help themselves sometimes, once they get going, they'll claw each others eyes out to get the 'Big Job' even if it cost them No10, just as Johnson is doing now.
Its pretty easy to get really angry about what they're planning to do (Operation Red Dog/Big Meat) to distract from Boris's parties, but then you look at their track record, their biblical levels of both laziness and incompetence, and realise all these things are just dead cat newspaper headlines.
They'll never actually get round to doing any of it as its just too much like hard work
but then you look at their track record, their biblical levels of both laziness and incompetence, and realise all these things are just dead cat newspaper headlines.
Yes the Royal Navy story seems to ignore the great brouhaha created by Patel when ,just five months ago, she appointed a “ Clandestine Channel Threat Commander – a new role leading the UK’s response to tackling illegal attempts to reach the UK.” - same old, same old.
They’ll never actually get round to doing any of it as its just too much like hard work
I wonder how there was any work at all going on as it seems they were out on the piss most of the time. Would certainly explain some of the massively delayed policy announcements.
I wonder how there was any work at all going on as it seems they were out on the piss most of the time.
Late night drinking after work has long since been part of that environment. It's not just a Conservative thing, and definitely not just a Johnson thing. But we were in a pandemic, and the government had asked us all (with legal backing) to not meet up in numbers to socialise... and then Johnson and his team were inviting 100 people to a BYOB party (to cite just one example). And Johnson lied to us to try and cover it all up. Repeatedly. One rule for us, another for them... and constantly in cover up mode. The alcohol wasn't the problem. Arranging, allowing, and attending gatherings, while we were all made to lean on zoom and phone calls... even to socialise with partners, children, grandchildren, close friends... never mind work colleagues... and then to claim that none of it happened, that you knew nothing about any of it, that you definitely weren't in attendance... all of which was simply untrue... and then to get your staff to write a report for you about what you already know happened (because you were there, and were warned that it wasn't a good idea)... all to buy time for the careful formulation of yet more lies and pinning the tail on a scapegoat... what a piece of work.
Still, it’s all starting to feel a bit like the end of the Thatcher / Major era
Very much so. It is obvious that this administration has run out of road. Governments lose elections when their time is up and "it's the other side's turn!". We've been at that point for some time. Johnson has just accelerated this sentiment.
I am highly amused by the denials that Johnson was told having a party was not a good idea - at least two sources say he was. I would not be surprised for an email to appear in the next few days that proves yet another lie
The longer they defend him the more political capital they use up and the more stupid they look and the worse it will be when Johnson is forced out
I do enjoy a bit of schadenfreude
The longer they defend him the more political capital they use up and the more stupid they look and the worse it will be when Johnson is forced out
You'd think they'd have learnt their lesson by now, wouldn't you?
It appears that some, like Rishi, certainly have and aren't expending any of their political capital on defending him
Did you hear Nadhim Zahawi interviewed on radio 4 this morning? The vocal contortions and moral gymnastics he was tying himself up in to justify Johnsons behaviour was just embarrassing for everybody involved. Something tells me that pretty soon he's going to be sorry he bothered. Loyalty is very much a one way street with Boris
This line has been going around my head... (it was part of Johnson's "apology" where he sought to cancel/revoke all his old lie/stories about knowing nothing, without quite going as far as giving his new lie/story... as that can "wait for Sue")...
“I believed implicitly that this was a work event.”
What is it to "believe implicitly"..?
Did you hear Nadhim Zahawi interviewed on radio 4 this morning? The vocal contortions and moral gymnastics he was tying himself up in
Well they hung him out to dry recently on Owen Paterson, reversing the decision whilst he was on air.
Still, it’s all starting to feel a bit like the end of the Thatcher / Major era
It's more Downfall, wild parties, everyone else to blame, moving imaginary military forces around the map, ludicrous propaganda announcements, wonder vaccines, another purge of the insufficiently deluded approaching and all the while the rumble of another leak drawing ever closer.
The vocal contortions and moral gymnastics he was tying himself up in to justify Johnsons behaviour was just embarrassing for everybody involved.
The way he managed to avoid saying "the PM believed that it was a work event" was like some kind of parlour game. All good fun if it's just about who ate the last slice of Christmas cake.
As P-Jay says, I do wonder if there is more 'scandal' being held back ready to drop when Johnson is out of his self-imposed isolation.
FIngers crossed!
“I believed implicitly that this was a work event.”
What is it to “believe implicitly”..?
David Allen Green has been on this too. The word 'implicitly' has cropped up repeatedly - it's obviously something he's been told to say by a lawyer. But no-one knows what it's supposed to mean. Clearly some terribly cunning get out of jail clause
What is it with his early morning runs in St.James's park, surely they're just a photo op and nothing esle.
He goes out running earing a British Rail hat, a woolly jumper, polka dot shorts, and the worst pair of running shoes in the world.
You still get vox pops about him being "a normal down-to-earth bloke"... the attire works well for that. As for the jogging itself... good on him... why shouldn't he?
"believe implicitly" - I think this can mean -" believe without being told"
It can also mean -"be very sure"
He goes out running wearing a British Rail hat, a woolly jumper, polka dot shorts, and the worst pair of running shoes in the world.
He looks like he forgot his PE kit at school
Many possible meanings TJ/doris5000, or none, who knows?
Can you still "believe implicitly" that an event wasn't a party, even if you have been told that it was, and that it shouldn't go ahead because it was? What if you asked your main man to arrange a social get together to celebrate something... can you still "believe implicitly" that it was a work event? And is that even ruling out that you knew that it was an unnecessary social gathering anyway? Word play. Parlour games. Who ate the last slice of Christmas cake..? "I implicitly believed that there was still something left after I took my slice".
What is it with his early morning runs in St.James’s park, surely they’re just a photo op and nothing esle.
He goes out running earing a British Rail hat, a woolly jumper, polka dot shorts, and the worst pair of running shoes in the world.
Its a funny one as most famous people could actually jog by you and you'd never notice.
You’d think they’d have learnt their lesson by now, wouldn’t you?
Arguably, showing loyalty to 'the boss' is a desirable trait in these career politicians who are unlikely to ever get the top job. It doesn't matter who the boss is, the next one will understand that they can be loyal puppets. It's only the few with leadership ambitions that will feel the need to detach themselves from Boris.
I'm not expert, but I suspect these people are making calculations about how to appear supportive, not necessarily who to appear supportive to.
Its gotta be some obscure photo op, I do think they attempt to flood the news with crap Boris stories to wash out the important ones.
Sorta a steady stream of crap to dumb the senses/public interest as people just get bored of it and soon its all just noise.
Arguably, showing loyalty to ‘the boss’ is a desirable trait in these career politicians who are unlikely to ever get the top job. It doesn’t matter who the boss is, the next one will understand that they can be loyal puppets. It’s only the few with leadership ambitions that will feel the need to detach themselves from Boris.
I know of a Sicilian firm who operate in a simmilar manner 😉
Kelvin - the phrase does have the feel of lawyer speak / deniability I agree
As P-Jay says, I do wonder if there is more ‘scandal’ being held back ready to drop when Johnson is out of his self-imposed isolation.
FIngers crossed!
It's intriguing, to me anyway. The idea that this is a carefully organised plan by someone outside of Government / Tory Party to oust Johnson is both really interesting and, also a bit scary.
It's fun, to me again at least, to think about Dominic Cummings sat in a darkened room in front of a bank of flickering screens, laughing manically as he traps his old Mate in lie after lie as revenge for his sacking, because as a Centrist / Labour Voter it suits me.
But I wonder, if the other side were in No10 at the moment, would this would feel a lot more like Political espionage? What if we find our in years to come that it's not Dominic Cummings. or a bunch of unrelated scandals coming to light, but the work of China, or Russia, or even the EU? I know that's a real dog whistle for us Remainers, but the idea that allies don't spy and attempt to influence each others home affairs is probably false.
Of course, the simple answer to avoiding all this is to not do stupid, illegal and immoral shit in the first place.
But I wonder, if the other side were in No10 at the moment, would this would feel a lot more like Political espionage? What if we find our in years to come that it’s not Dominic Cummings. or a bunch of unrelated scandals coming to light, but the work of China, or Russia, or even the EU? I know that’s a real dog whistle for us Remainers, but the idea that allies don’t spy and attempt to influence each others home affairs is probably false.
This stems from the fact that Johnsom had outsourced much of his thinking to Cummings, this has left him uniquely vulnerable to this kind of attack
If the security services vetted MPs for suitability to be PM I suspect Johnson would be top of the list (it could well be a long list) for being too venal, lazy, self-serving & compromised to get the job.
It’s fun, to me again at least, to think about Dominic Cummings sat in a darkened room in front of a bank of flickering screens, laughing manically as he traps his old Mate in lie after lie as revenge for his sacking
All Cummings is interested in is watching the world burn.
If he was still in No.10, he'd be doing it from in there with some other scheme where he could believe that he was some kind of 4D chess grandmaster. He reminds me a bit of the Rumplestiltskin character in Shrek Forever After.
Now he's just a bitter ex-No.10-er with an axe to grind. He's very probably got some kind of murky far-right funded dark money behind him somewhere but while he was in No.10 he was also in all the goings-on right up to his neck anyway and much as he might like to claim he told BJ that parties were a bad idea, it's still him sitting there in that photo from above the garden. He's far from innocent in all this, he's just enjoying the chaos. It's what he does - dismantle "the hierarchy". While inside No.10 he was just doing it on behalf of Boris, now he's doing it for whoever else is paying him. No shits given.
Cummings is earning more now on the outside. His blog subscriptions bring in @£250k/yr.
Is there something a tad unpleasant about this Big Dog's Red Meat?
I'd like to subscribe to it but I just cant do it.
Of course, the simple answer to avoiding all this is to not do stupid, illegal and immoral shit in the first place.
Kompromat innit - self inflicted.
wonder how much his subscriptions would bring in when Boris goes? does he want to kill the golden goose?
From Popbitch:
https://what3words.com/input.caring.brain
Seems about right. Do W3W staff get to 'adjust' the words it delivers for comedy value?
The boxes left and right of that one are good too.
He looks like he forgot his PE kit at school
AFAIK he does it on purpose, see endless shots of him running in work shirts and so on. I mean he could easily buy running shorts or whatever, but it suits his image not to. It's the same as the 'combing his hair with a Balloon' thing that he does, carefully and artfully constructed so as to look artfully un-constructed as possible.
Because the important thing is to make it look like you don't care, or that looking like you've made an effort is trying to hard. It's a public school thing.
The boxes left and right of that one are good too.
Someone has definitely been at them.
https://what3words.com/vote.resort.wrong
I'm with whatisname, the longer Johnson is in power and in denial the greater the harm to the tory vote and the greater thew chance we get to lose them come election time.
This has been bolstered it would appear by the group of MP's who came out in support of him, each with their own constituency, each with their own voting group possibly now disenchanted with their MP and wondering if a change of party is what they need.
I'm hearing Mordaunt being touted as the outsider leader candidate
That'd be far too sensible (relative to other options) for the membership
Anyway
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1483122940602425346?t=HUW23YXsk-YlTwCjGak_yg&s=19
HAHA! agree W3W might have been tampered. Me and my son just spent 5 minutes laughing, there's more than a few, if you squint.
Our favourite limp.just.chief is in the No.10 garden.
Implicit.... is being used to defend the PM.
By saying his Implicit understanding of the Parties was that they were work events means his Implicit view was understood though not put clearly into words.
This allows Boris a get out I.e. his Implicit understanding was betrayed by staff. Or in short a C**** trick.
Implicitly understood > explicitly told?
Says it all.
https://what3words.com/clown.obey.heat
https://what3words.com/sheep.engage.ready
There are a few for the Chancellor in no.11, too.
https://what3words.com/spend.agenda.prone
https://what3words.com/slice.fire.weep
If true, these claims are explosive, as would mean PM had lied to House of Commons.
Like most of the days he's been in the House of Commons then.
He lied to the Queen, he lied about Brexit, he lied about his flat refurbishments...
He lies pretty much every time he opens his mouth and so far he's had to suffer almost zero consequences from any of it.
kelvin
Full MemberYou still get vox pops about him being “a normal down-to-earth bloke”… the attire works well for that
He doesn't look like a normal down to earth bloke, he looks like he's escaped from his carer.
Because the important thing is to make it look like you don’t care, or that looking like you’ve made an effort is trying to hard. It’s a public school thing.
This thread is very telling IMO
https://twitter.com/MartinRowson/status/714014055095205888
Not having “special kit” … running in old stuff you’ve repurposed. This act works. Hopefully people will eventually judge him on what he says and does, rather than his brilliant clown act. And it is brilliant. That it doesn’t work on you and me, and that steadily fewer and fewer people are taken in by it, doesn’t mean it hasn’t served him very well up to now.