Just heard on the radio news that he’s going to have to appear in court to answer charges on misconduct in public office for the £350m a week to EU lie. His representative is reported as saying the trial is just a politically motivated stunt - oh, the irony😏
Its' great innit. Does teh CPS take over or still privately funded?
In other news, "Court Artist buys big box of yellow crayons"
His representative is reported as saying the trial is just a politically motivated stunt – oh, the irony😏
It pains me that I may be turning into a conspiracy nut but it does feel all a little too perfectly timed to ruin his chances of being forced into going down with his ship again.
Last time round his buddy Gove, "knifes him in the back" saving both of them from a spot of political harikari. Now he's got a possible court case with potential to bar him from sitting as an MP to ruin his leadership bid. In both cases he comes out looking better to his supporters yet avoids all responsibility for brexit.
I'll just repost here what I posted in the EU thread as it's exactly the same response...
It’s a solid case I think…
The second sentence on the bus ‘let’s give it to the NHS instead’ was simply misleading as it was a suggestion rather than a promise or a statement of intention. So not technically a lie.
The first part of the sentence however! ‘we give the EU 350m a week’ is what the case cites, as abuse, as that’s a gross figure before taking into account rebates and mutually beneficial expenditure that goes towards continental security, science projects, environmental projects and many other things that are hard to quantify in terms of gross UK membership fees.
Of course the right wing press won’t mention that.
BoJo certainly won’t, he’s a disaster capitalist.
Anyone regognise this pequliar couple? They weren’t happy being photographed together.
Is that Boris Johnson meeting Nigel Farage? Boris Johnson who criticized Jeremy Corbyn for meeting former IRA commander Martin McGuinness? In case anyone is unsure who Boris Johnson is, he's the one here meeting former IRA commander Martin McGuinness
Seems it's been brewing for a little while now.
‘we give the EU 350m a week’ is what the case cites, as abuse, as that’s a gross figure
I might be wrong but I believe the case says the figure is essentially made-up with no basis in fact. A gross figure would be very easy to defend I imagine, its a provable amount and has an obvious factual basis, I may be wrong mind.
[How much do you earn? You're not likely to take your employer to court for advising you of your gross salary (if you reflexively give a net figure I think you're the only person on the planet)]
Is it the case started by this fella? LINK
Yes that's the one.
It pains me that I may be turning into a conspiracy nut but it does feel all a little too perfectly timed to ruin his chances of being forced into going down with his ship again.
Yup, been running for an age
Timing seems "useful". The claim was so easily proved wrong that a) Farage tried to distance himself from it and b) this Eurosceptic decided to vote Remain!
Must be a lot of other politicians expecting a knock on the door if lying and misleading the public are an offence....
Likely outcome if found guilty?
Would Aaron banks pay his fine?
wonder if Banski might have other issues?
https://twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1133609232274776064
as for Borris, hes a liar & an arse, not sure if this will help or hinder him, its more exposure after all.
I think Id like to have seen him billed for teh Garden Bridge fisaco more
Likely outcome if found guilty?
Potentially life in prison.
in practical terms I think you'd be looking at a couple of years suspended (I believe allowing him to remain as an mp) and a nice big fine followed by years of appeals, political martyrdom and a glorious return to the fold in a few years to resurrect the Conservative Party.
Much as I think it's a bit amusing and could do with doing over something (the lying by politicians of every flavour really needs to be brought into check and an example prosecution isn't a bad idea) I can't help feeling it's a bloody stupid thing to do in this case, it's yet another brick in the wall between leave and remain.
An MP telling lies?
I'm shocked.
If every MP that lied ended up in court we'd soon run out of them.
wonder if Banski might have other issues?
From the bbc
Not sure arron banks qualifies as a foreign official.
Not sure arron banks qualifies as a foreign official.
Didn't he used to be some kind of ambassador for Belize?
Didn’t he used to be some kind of ambassador for Belize?
Nah that is Ashcroft.
Is that Boris Johnson meeting Nigel Farage?
Yes, not so much a meeting by the looks of it, but a jolly good drinking season between mates!
Until they saw someone taking a pic, and then they got all upset.
Banks claimed to have traveled on a Belizian passport in his Brexit bad boy book, but then downgraded it to an ID card when challenged by Cadwalladr, he had that because he was apparently Belize's Honorary Consul to Cardiff?!!?
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/controversial-ukip-funder-brexit-supporter-14877587
I hate to say it but the whole thing could quite easily be spun to his advantage in the leadership run off, seeking to try and martyr him and claim he's only a target for the lefties because of "being willing to stand up and be counted" or some other such toss...
This is the kind of thing that actually has the potential to play well for some of the target market...
I might be wrong but I believe the case says the figure is essentially made-up with no basis in fact. A gross figure would be very easy to defend I imagine, its a provable amount and has an obvious factual basis, I may be wrong mind.
I'm sure that might well be correct. I didn't want to say as much as I've not seen the figures.
It's as best dishonest and probably a complete lie.
Hopefully the fat pig will be stung up for this. There was no honest intention in that first part of the sentence on the bus, and he can't be nailed for the second part as it was a suggestion rather than an outright lie.
Let's hope the courts do thier jobs.
we give the EU 350m a week’ is what the case cites, as abuse, as that’s a gross figure
So in other words, we
- do
give 350m a week to the EU? Getting a bit like the old Eastern Europe round these parts, isn't it my red Socialist friends. Lose a democratic vote? Use the legal system against your opponents. Stay classy.
So in other words, we do give 350m a week to the EU?
erm no we dont, the rebate is deducted before we transfer anything but yeah other than that, carry on
Eastern Europe round these parts, isn’t it my red Socialist friends. Lose a democratic vote? Use the legal system against your opponents
You've got that a bit wrong.
A) you don't loose a democratic vote. If there's any possibility of that you...
B) The legal process is used to prevent your opponents standing in a democratic contest,by using it first you ensure (A)
the rebate is deducted before we transfer anything but yeah other than that, carry on
But on paper it goes something like:
-£350mil contributions
+100mil rebate
Net - 250mil
I expect there's rather more to the court case than that or it won't last long. Especially given the rebate is against last year's payment so in year 1 we didn't get a rebate so really it's not deducted straight away, it's deducted 12 months later.
Yes it's spliting hairs but I really really hope the legal arguments have more to them than that.
Ok,
So I have long petitioned for this self same action to be brought against LyingBloHard and the rest of the right wing lying nut jobs.
His day will come in court, and I hope he’s true to form and lies whilst in the dock.. as is typical of a Tory.
I will be celebrating this out come.
And hope the CPS continues its course to bring to court the others (NF is also facing campaign fraud)
Stay classy.
It's either factually correct or a lie.
'giving' 350m to the EU was a statement (the first part of the sentence). That would need to be qualified by taking into account rebates and various other gains the UK gets from membership.
That's provable one way or another.
The suggestion of giving 350m to the NHS... the second part of the sentence was a simple (dishonest but not technically a lie) suggestion.
There are plenty of grammar nerds on here, even to the layman it was a misleading sentence.
The first part is in court for being an outright lie, the second part was misleading at best, and intended to rile up the electorate.
Three thoughts:
1. The unexplained wealth order for anyone that can bothered to use google before spreading fake news related to the wife of a jailed Azerbaijan banker.
2. The £350m is misleading as the actual figure is £250m a week.
3. The incredible new Royal Papworth Hospital that’s just opened cost £165m to build. At that rate the EU net payment would fund one new hospital a week with £105m in spare change.
That Boris is a complete tool is undeniable but the question of whether we really get value from the net £250m a week is highly relevant.
We’re told it’s the cost of participating in the free market yet Japan and Canada how both concluded extensive free trade agreements with the EU that doesn’t require them to pay anything at all for the “privilege” of being allowed to sell goods and services to EU member states (and vice versa).
1. The unexplained wealth order for anyone that can bothered to use google before spreading fake news related to the wife of a jailed Azerbaijan banker.
That's not the new ones issued against the 3 properties though is it but the ones currently being tested and filed last year?
Yes it’s spliting hairs but I really really hope the legal arguments have more to them than that.
Legal arguments are often all about splitting hairs. The first line on the bus is arguably true (pre rebate) If they'd put £250 mil it would have been better but either would serve the purpose. The second line is exactly what it says. The case is a political stunt and will go nowhere.
How many new hospitals could we have built for the combined cost of the ongoing Brexit process, the unbuilt Garden Bridge, the snap election and the DUP bung?
In other words, we could probably have had 6 or 7 new hospitals and possibly a couple of schools AND enjoyed the benefits of staying in the EU.
The bigger lie was that it was the EU stopping us investing in public services, rather than our own politicians...
2. The £350m is misleading as the actual figure is £250m a week.
It's either the truth or a lie, as it was phrased as a statement of fact, not a suggestion. There's no misleading.
The second part of the sentence on the bus is missleading and not technically a lie as is was a suggestion rather than a promise.
Use the legal system against your opponents.
It's why we have a legal system - don't break the law and you won't have a problem.
If every MP that lied ended up in court we’d soon run out of them.
Or they'd stop lying? Because like many 5 year olds are taught; actions have consequences.
I would suggest a few of them going to jail would do wonders for the disenfranchised who just see a political elite who can do and say whatever they want.
Can they send down Farridge too?
NF is being investigated..
“2. The £350m is misleading as the actual figure is £250m a week.“
“It’s either the truth or a lie,”
The £350m is in the Office of National Statistics Pink Book - which I suspect means the court case won’t last long.
Meanwhile, the motivation behind the case becomes clearer...
https://order-order.com/2019/05/29/campaigner-stop-lying-politics-lied-political-campaign/
https://order-order.com/2019/05/29/embarrassing-anti-boris-pitch-raise-2-million-gullible-remainers/
For clarity - again - Boris is still a grade A tool - I have no time for him.
I would suggest a few of them going to jail would do wonders for the disenfranchised who just see a political elite who can do and say whatever they want.
The difficulty there is a lot of the disenfranchised of whom you speak like bojo and Farage and the rest who do a very good job of marketing them selves as anti-establishment. Jailing them will make the issue worse not better.
The smarmy man behind the case
I find it difficult to put much stock in "news" that resorts to calling people names in the first sentence.
So in other words, we do give 350m a week to the EU?
Say you get a quote for a new front door, and the salesman says "it'll be £350, but we've got a special on at the moment so we can do it for £250," have you paid £250 or £350? When your mates come round to visit and say "nice door, what did that cost?" and you reply "£350" would you consider that to be an honest answer or a lie? If the former, you have a promising career ahead of you as a Tory politician.
If we're being pedantic - and court cases like this can often boil down to semantics - then if we gave the EU £350m and they gave us £100m back then it could be argued that the claim is factually correct, if misleading. But we don't, we "send the EU" our contribution with the rebate already applied so it is quite literally factually incorrect however you slice it. The claim is that we sent £350m to the EU and the simple fact is that we do not. That's what will get him nailed to the mast, assuming the Teflon Tosspot doesn't weasel his way out of it somehow.
1 Boris is a complete mercenary ****, just like all the big hitter Leavers.
2 He won't go down for anything in this court action, I'd bet on it.
3 I can't believe some people are still justifying the £350 million figure as anything remotely real. This country is truly doomed.
Say you get a quote for a new front door, and the salesman says “it’ll be £350, but we’ve got a special on at the moment so we can do it for £250,” have you paid £250 or £350? When your mates come round to visit and say “nice door, what did that cost?” and you reply “£350” would you consider that to be an honest answer or a lie? If the former, you have a promising career ahead of you as a Tory politician.
If we’re being pedantic – and court cases like this can often boil down to semantics – then if we gave the EU £350m and they gave us £100m back then it could be argued that the claim is factually correct, if misleading. But we don’t, we “send the EU” our contribution with the rebate already applied so it is quite literally factually incorrect however you slice it.
Only the comparison falls down in as much as the sales man tells you it's 350 a week for a new door, and 350 a week next week ad infinitum, only next year, y you can take £100pw cash back against the 350pw you paid this year off your payment assuming you paid in full last year. If you don't pay in full in year 1 you won't get your [full] 100pw rebate in year 2 and so on.
So did you pay 350 a week in year one or 250? are you getting 100 off this year's payments or is it (a rebate) against what got paid last year and you really are paying 350, just there's credit applied in arrears?
And that's the thing it's a rebate against monies paid, not a reduction in our fees owed. So yes we only actually send 250 (and the bus did say send) but that's not what we're "paying".
We pay a bill of 350 with 250 cash and 100 credit note effectively but we're paying 350. I guess the argument is if we'd get the rebate if we didn't pay, eg. if the EU paid us back 100mil in any given month if we paid nothing over that month.
I don't know the answer, it's semantics at best.
What's clear to me is that we don't pay 250 a week, at best, we pay something which tends to 250 over a very long time.
Cheddar is quoting Guido Fawkes..
Lol, that place is more batshit than mumsnet..
“2. The £350m is misleading as the actual figure is £250m a week.“
“It’s either the truth or a lie,”
The £350m is in the Office of National Statistics Pink Book – which I suspect means the court case won’t last long.
Meanwhile, the motivation behind the case becomes clearer…
For clarity – again – Boris is still a grade A tool – I have no time for him
As your source is a supposedly smashing down the establishment independent thinker who has been blogging in support of the Tory leadership bid of an old Etonian who is the subject of this very thread, and who you describe as a grade A tool, I'm not sure why you're bothering to link to it as some sort of "proof".
I would imagine that if your claims are correct you could come up with more trustworthy sources?
The £350m is in the Office of National Statistics Pink Book – which I suspect means the court case won’t last long.
I suspect if there was nothing more to it then the judge would've ruled that there's no case to answer. Oh, and if you're relying on Paul Staines for your news, it's time to stop and have a think.
3 I can’t believe some people are still justifying the £350 million figure as anything remotely real. This country is truly doomed.
I don't think anybody is. Only that the figure exists in relation to our EU contribution. And that lawyers will use that fact in defence.
