[Closed] Boiler installs - why so expensive?

Just DIY and get someone to check it and give you a Corgi Certificate. They're pretty easy to install if you can do basic DIY and plumbing....

might be easier with gas to do that footflaps

ive just done that(with the help of a plumber) with an oil boiler ....can i find an oil qualified dude to commission it.... no.

Everyone i spoke to says - they are looking for someone oil qualified as well ..... seems only the big companys round here deal with oil and they are not interested in a piddly wee job.

not all boilers are equal either tony .... 799 for a boiler and rads .... my boiler was near 2 grand at trade.

footflaps - Member
Just DIY and get someone to check it and give you a Corgi Certificate. They're pretty easy to install if you can do basic DIY and plumbing....

This. We know a CORGI registered guy that'll did one a Saturday morning in 4 hours for £1400 including the supply of a Bosch (Valliant) boiler....

ive just done that(with the help of a plumber) with an oil boiler ....can i find an oil qualified dude to commission it.... no.

Speak to your local building control department. You should be able to do it via a building notice. You'll pay a fee and they'll inspect the work. Bit more of a faff but probably a damn sight cheaper. Basically the advantage of the 'competent persons scheme' such as OFTEC is that they can self-certify that you meet regs.

Speak to your local building control department. You should be able to do it via a building notice. You'll pay a fee and they'll inspect the work.

Good point. I'm doing that with the electrics for my workshop, building control have a standard £190 fee for inspection / certificate.

B&Q have boiler + 5 rads for 799 !!!!

A boiler that's got 25 year old internals and radiators that will rust through and leak within 3 years (max)

There are some very, very good reasons those packages are cheap.

A boiler that's got 25 year old internals and radiators that will rust through and leak within 3 years (max)

My boiler is 25+ years old and still works fine!

It might do, but a 25 year old boiler will gobble gas and be a time bomb waiting to fail....

I bought my baxi gas backboiler 22 years ago second hand! It's been ultra reliable. Every year the gas guy services it he recommends I get a new economical boiler then grumbles about the old back boilers going on forever. My gas bills are not discernibly more than anyone elses I know.

Closed shop innit so as long as they all agree they wont do it for less than £1 k we have to pay it

As other note not that high a skill level though you would want it checked

@junkyard - your right on the money there....

It might do, but a 25 year old boiler will gobble gas and be a time bomb waiting to fail....

Got any evidence to back up either of those sweeping generalisations?

From what I can tell it's been a lot more reliable than anyone else's boiler that I know. In 15 years I've replaced the control board and pressure sensor. My Parent's multi £k brand new boiler has been through 3 control boards in as many years.....

As for efficiency, a new boiler might be 5-10% better efficiency, but no more.

"As for efficiency, a new boiler might be 5-10% better efficiency, but no more."

depends how efficient your old one was no ?

my old one was 61% efficient(annoyingly the wrong side of the rebate schemes cut off...) - new one should be in the 90s.....

with not having gas or oil, is there any advances in modern electric heating / hot water that would be much cheaper install?

depends how efficient your old one was no ?

Of course. No idea what the efficiency is as I can't find any figures for it. However, from what I can tell mine doesn't seem that bad as the exhaust isn't that hot (for a 16kW Boiler) and my gas bill is only £600 / year for a 1890s Victorian terrace with gaping holes between floor boards...

jaysus, we had a new boiler and had it moved to another wall for £1700 all in.

@monkey_boy - who was it and do they want a trip up to the north of scotland for a day for an extra 500quid!
🙂

Why do you want LPG? Can you use biomass.

does biomass give you ondemand hot water and heating though? and what about leaving the system for a few weeks on hols in deep winter?
that is why wer were looking at lpg boiler

lpg - doesnt that work out at the most costly of all the off the grid fuels ?

here is the chart i worked off
[url= http://www.nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison/ ]cost per kwh[/url]

not as good as oil, but when you dont have mains gas, its way better than electricity and way more flexible than a wood stove, and, you dont have to light a fire just to have a shower
(and using a boiler gives us mains pressure hot water!)

I'm watching this carefully, I have an old back boiler that I either need to service or replace, it's not in an ideal place as there is a 'box' built for it on the side of the chimney in the lounge, there is plenty of space for a new boiler in the airing cupboard at the top of the stairs, but then the gas feed needs to be re-routed, all my rads are showing a little rust and all the pipe work running to them is surface not chased in.

I'm not great at DIY so don't want to take on more than I can and I'm also not certain a new boiler would be any better than my existing old school boiler. Plus if I can help it I'd rather not spend a fortune on a new boiler and all the associated work.

You can get modern condensing back boilers now.

@toby1 - thats the same position as me exactly, except we dont even have a gas mains, and a small garden that wont look nice with big lpg or oil tank, hence gas tall bottles.

burying a bunded tank an option ?

thats next years project for me if im allowed to do it.

and a small garden that wont look nice with big lpg or oil tank, hence gas tall bottles.

You can get 'mini' bulk tanks that don't stick out too much (and you can argue 4 x cylinders don't look pretty!). The siting of them isn't as stringent as the larger tanks so they can be next to a boundary. The gas prices are cheaper than cylinders.

RT - yes you can get a biomass to do that no problems. holidays also no problem.

Pellet boilers are as flexible as nearly any other boiler with the right specification, and admittedly wallet on some occasions.

I would rather have oil than LPG too as cheaper per kw.

Gas suppliers will often install the bulk tank for virtually nothing, although with LPG the siting of tanks or bottles is usually a nightmare.

As always , pays yer money. I wouldnt even contemplate the B&Q specials. Mate is a boiler engineer and he only fits Baxi and Worcester boilers when he quotes. You could get a cheaper boiler, but he wont fit it. Our old boiler was a cast iron job that was a second hand one he fitted a few years earlier, but we are now saving money with gas prices rapidly rising and should repay itself sooner than I thought ( mates rates) Also you must consider a power flush of the system at the same time, as any warranty for silting of the heat exchanger and heating efficiency will be lost.I used to regulary flush out and put new inhibitor in our system, but even he was surprised how much muck we got out the rads when proper flushing.

In answer to the original post.
Have you seen how much childrens shoes cost.
Gas Safe Registration including doing all your domestic gas AND LPG qualifications every 5 years.
Insurances
Van
Diesel especially if you live out in the sticks away from the merchants.
Office
Profit or is that a dirty word
Registering boiler with gassafe
Computer to register boiler with gassafe
Gas testing equipment which also needs servicing every year
Other specialist tools including core drill bits
Wiring boiler to current electrical standards
Controls to building regulations
Have you seen how much bikes cost.

Yes £3k sounds a bit steep but is it really that simple a job?
You currently don't have any Gas at the boiler location.
Water?
Where are the heating pipes?
Where is the power coming from?
Where do you live?
Plus putting the boiler and gas pipework in yourself will mean any gas engineer who's worth employing won't touch it with a barge pole to pass it for you.

[i]

burying a bunded tank an option ?

thats next years project for me if im allowed to do it. [/i]

Don't bother they are desperatley trying to ban the installation of underground oil tanks, which you can still buy). If you ever have a problem it'll be a BIG problem.

Oh and running an electric Amptec boiler here alongside the stove which is linked into the heating system. Electric boiler used for conveniance (early morning and holidays) and the stove should do most of the work the rest of the time. Cheapish to buy and install but not so cheap to run to heat the house.

As @Junkyard says - closed shop

@tomlevel - I see your list but even assuming it's a 2 day job that's £100,000 a year with 12 weeks holiday

Nowhere near a closed shop.

If only I could earn a quarter of that with all that holiday I'd be happy.

Does it not cross your mind that there are overheads and down time to take into consideration.

tomlevell contender for most sensible post of the year. Lots of people on here in cloud cuckoo land with regards to how much to pay a skilled tradesman.

As for 'closed shop' - do you really believe that? Smells of utter pish to me. 😕

Some people seem to think if you pay someone £200 a day they are earning £200 a day. They're not.

ok hands up I'm an installer..

straight combi swaps start at 1150 which take a day and i clear about 350 on.

take from that my running costs of 375 a week.. ( yes it costs that much to run and buy a van insurances tools phones ( £64 for bt and 7.50 to talk mobile a month) qualifications ( renewing my ACS this week 865..)accountant, advertising 85pw gas safe hetas memberships postage stationary etc etc)

average boiler change in the last 12 months would be circa 1700, most expensive i ve done is 3875 but the boiler alone cost me 1700 plus 175 for controls 85 for magnatec and 500 quids worth of copper and fittings.. one 28mm brass compression T piece cost 32 quid..and it took 5 days.. and was a 60 mile round trip each day

normally average 5 boilers a month.. boiler sales this year industry wide are 10-12% down I ve lowered prices to the bone to take money and am level on sales quantities but down on sales value by about 15%

central heating is unsurprisingly very seasonal.. starts first week of sept ends last week of april..

this is probably the most expensive time of year to be contemplating this work and i'd delay unless its a distress purchase..

frankly messing about doing full installs and bespoke work is not work for this time of year, the season is short and i have to maximise my potential income which i cant do tied down to anything other than straight forward work as the more complex and involved the work is the more time it takes and the less viable it becomes..

Total - not heard of BES? Delivered to your door!

I have an excellent deal with my local supplier.. everything delivered to site FOC, all SOR, pay by cc every friday at no extra cost, price matches any body who will do same..

But £32 for a 28mm compression tee, unless it wasn't a standard tee?

[i]As @Junkyard says - closed shop

@tomlevel - I see your list but even assuming it's a 2 day job that's £100,000 a year with 12 weeks holiday [/i]

LMAO to both

Closed shop - not a chance everyone wants jobs. The one man bands seem very busy which may reflect in their prices especially at a local level. Although in other areas there may be next to no work.

2 day job - You'd be going well to do that along with making sure it's linked in correctly to the stove system and the sparky does his job properly and the boiler is working correctly and the LPG tanks are on site and the regulator is the correct type then factor in being called back because there is a leak/fault/controls problem.

I dare say the OP could get it cheaper for a correct install but they may need to hound a few more plumbers to site and chase them for their prices. Try a company rather than an individual too.

Check for LPG qualified installers in the area on the gassafe website and look further affield to nearby towns and cities. I'd work up to 50 miles away depending on the area. Fairly pointless travelling to say Newcastle or Leeds for a small domestic job as there will be loads of contractors locally looking for that work anyway.

Thinking about replacing my 20 year old one soon, fair point at it now being peak season though - do install prices go up that much over winter? Also I'll likely change to a combi so my hot water tank will become redundant, should I expect a bill for the installer to take it a way or as it's copper should that mean they take it for free/give me money back? Also are the magnetic filter things a must-have these days and if so what's the best brands?

@tomlevell - great post! thanks! have started to look further afield and see whats what!

EDIT: also its a straight install, remove the existing h/water tank and insert boiler, all pipe work is in there except gas pipe, 2 meters out to the wall. did not include flu install out to the roof, that was separate job.

It certainly sounds straight forward.

Also don't be shy in chasing people for a price. I know you shouldn't have to but if another 10 people are you'll be forgotten about.

bear 32 quid was wrong.. need to check invoices properly.. that was for 3..

love the question about the cylinder. replaced a cylinder last week and the client asked if they could have part exchange against it or could they take it to the scrap yard for the cash..

sure said I.. regretably the wholesaler wasnt willing to take a 45 yr old leaking copper cylinder against the cost of a new one..
and the customer didnt want me to leave it in situ for them to remove.

next week i m doing an oil to gas installation although the tank and remaining oil are worth almost 2k we're having to pay a guy 350 plus vat to shift em..

so, what about a modern electric combi boiler system?

I've been looking around the net to try and find some info about them - given that its just the 2 of us out all day and still have a stove to heat the main rooms at night, could it be cheaper to go this route for morning heating and showers? , taking into consideration the upfront cost of installing gas/oil tanks+boiler etc against the higher electricity prices
(and of course i am assuming very little maintenance of the electric boiler + no flu?)

Total. That's better. Bes are still cheaper though I think. They also would have stock.

so it seems im on some kind of "Total Heating Total Control" dual rate meter, which means i get off-peak rates on my water all the time, and Scottish Hydro control the turn on of my storage heaters (at least this is my understanding of the scheme)

so looking around, i might ditch the gas combi boiler idea, *IF* i am allowed to install either

an electric hot water system I'll then get a plumber to just make the STOVE run the central heating. ( good for the evenings and overnight )

OR

an electric combi boiler onto this LOW RATE tariff to do the water & central heating and (perhaps) dual link the central heating with the stove too.

I'll use the storage heaters for morning heat for an hour or so and get one installed in the 2nd bedroom, as the sole one is good to heat the bathroom and our room at the same time.

Thats the theory of course, i'll need to speak to scottish hydro and find someone up here who installs knows about these types of electrical systems.

Looking online it seems it might be a very cheap upfront costs way to go -and having the stove for central heating too would work out cheaper.

If your disciplined enough to keep a lid on your electric heating and use the stove as much as possible then it makes sense. Make sure the electric heaters have timers and stats
I can only see LPG and Oil catching up with Electric prices rather than getting cheaper and mains gas continuing a steady rise along with electricity.

We used far more electric last winter as with 2 very young children time to light the fire on a morning is more difficult. This year should be easier and hopefully see this part of the fuel bill drop back to the previous years useage.

well well well

after speaking to Scottish Hydro, seems i can install an electric combi boiler and run it on the offpeak rate 24/7 ! that means water and central heating all at 8.24p per unit.

need to look at how much an electric combi is to install, hopefully a LOT cheaper than gas boiler, pipe, tank etc.

electric combi - about 1500 quid to buy a good sized unit (by the way how bigs your house as all the electric combis i found were too small for my house)

fuel at 8.5p (which i see as doubtful btw someones pulling your leg i expect) oil is about 6/7p a litre.

i reckon that even with a tank and fitting youll break even using oil in 3-5 years. and thats being generous with the oil fitting and cheap with the electric fitting. - itll cost more than you think i expect to get electric combi fitted.

i saw figures yesterday that quoted it ll take 10.5 years to pay off installation costs from oil to gas..

surely that depends how close your nearest gas pipe is ? or do you mean LPG ?

2 bed small terraced house

its defo 8.24p i confirmed it twice.
for us gas/oil would also require the cost of a tank, a roof flu install, and if gas (which is prefered) is rental of the gas tanks too.
the quote i mentioned previously is 3200 WITHOUT any of that too.....

didnt realise an electric combi would cost so much to install.

why do you want a combi? Can't you use a thermal store and heat it up off peak for both water and heating?

as another aside its only £675 to have gas installed to a property that is less than 41 metres from the kerb.. and thats with surfaces re instated

aye if it runs in your street.

how ever if its in a street that isnt the street the properties on but less than 41m from your house its prohibitively expensive.

@bear, water heating is offpeak 24/7 so no need to heat a tank that i might not use.

i cannot find out where a gas line might come into the property without buying some sort of map!

BES compression brass T is part number 9026 at £4.01 each plus £4.95 carriage.
One of my engineers is going to have gas piped to his house as oil is a pain and expensive.Also he has had his tank drained a couple of times, which gets very expensive.

ressurectify :

no chance of gas or oil, just too expensive when its all factored in.

looking at existing STOVE to heat THERMAL STORE, with electric immersion backup. THMERAL STORE will run central heating too = hot water + heating + hot water pressure

OR
Pressured hot water tank + small electric boiler = hot water + heating + hot water pressure, downside is cannot use the STOVE with it (apart from heating the room its in obviously!)

Depending on your lifestyle and where you live some sort of automatic heating is useful so the house can be warmish when you get back from a weekend away and protect from freezing in the middle of winter if you go away.
If you want mains pressure hot water which is far better than tank fed hot water then there are various options.
Dunsley minimizer. This can also link an electric boiler in if required.
You can pressurise a stove heating but needs some other features including a (can't think what it's called) cold water dump valve to stop it overheating in an emergency. This could be linked into a thermal store or even an unvented cylinder. It's not the "normal" way of doing it though.
Use of a Ladomat loading pump is also a good idea.

You need to find an installer locally who does this stuff as it get's quite complicated and expensive.

tomlevel - thats one of our primary concerns is keeping the system running while away in winter, without having to drain the system. so the solution must run a central heating on a timer, as this cannot be from the stove , there must be some electrical influence somewhere.

Use the correct thermal store and dump both heat sources into it. No need for neutraliser.

We had one of those huge old solid reliable boilers. Got up one morning to find that it had cracked and fallen in to 2 pieces. So yes they do break. Just glad it wasn't winter

We paid a fortune for our boiled installed, possible £3500. I'm not complaining. I think it took 2 guys 3 days and envolved pressurising the system, floor boards up and and all sorts. I think a huge chunk of the time was flushing the system. It just took forever but my view if it was worth doing it was worth doing well. But the we have never had a leak or any other problems

My mum has had 2 pipe breakages. Both times a nightmare of wet floors and new carpets. Plumming is an integral part of an expensive asset

But i suppose I was lucky that could afford it, it would be much tighter now...

[url= http://www.miketheboilerman.com/newboilercost.htm ]This is interesting view on why so expensive.[/url]

Good read that article.

we were all set to sign on the dotted line for thermal store option, when out of the blue the EnergySavingTrust came around and told us the best thing would be PELLET STOVE with fancy timers/controllers to give us central heating when we want it and hot water (still via a tank and will *NOT* give us hot water pressure - so possibly need an electric shower install)

a quick google shows pellet stoves are BIG, small ones are still quite tall (and not especially nice for a main room replacement of our nice old stove) but there is a GRANT available (950quid cashback + interest free loans)

sooooooooooo who has a PELLET STOVE?????????

Stoner has one....

Pellet stoves are great if not big and expensive and if you want to access the grant you'll need the right installer with the paperwork. (not just the knowledge/training to install them correctly)
Consider
Space for boiler
Storage of pellets
Supply of pellets to boiler manual/automatic
Delivery of pellets
Security of supply of pellets
Servicing costs
Spares costs
Pellet price

A pellet boiler can be linked to a mains pressure cylinder so you can get the pressure you want out of a shower/bth. Probably easier to install with a tank fed HEATING system then trying to pressuise that though.

If you really wanted a green solution then a log boiler is far better in that respect as you don't have to manufacture the logs.
Pellets are much easier on the continent too as you can buy bags in supermarkets if your stuck.

[i]sooooooooooo who has a PELLET STOVE????????? [/i]

My neighbour. Only observations are that you need somewhere to store the bulk and go for auto-feed.

Disagree with you there Tom - go for pressurised heating system, no problems.
Pellets readily available, try to use a Verdo pellet though.
Storage of pellets depends on size of boiler, either blown or hand fed. Outside storage options are now available off the shelf.
You may be able to qualify under commercial RHI scheme generating better returns.
If you use a log boiler you will need more space for plant as you will need more accululators.
You can install pellet boilers with the need for no accumulator with the right system design (have done it successfully)

Can put you in touch with a few people to talk through pellet / log options (mail me timATj-twren.eclipse.co.uk) but be warned they are not cheap to buy or install.

Yes sorry I've not done much on pellet other than the odd job that either doesn't happen or they rapidly move onto a cheaper option.

And yes storage is a problem with any of the Biomass options as is cost.
If I had the space and the money! I'd probably link a pellet and a log boiler together onto accumulators. Pellet for ease and log for when your home and have the time.

I'd just be cautious that any Pellet supply within the UK is such a tiny market that if a supplier goes bust the supply could dry up in area for a while. Probably wouldn't be an issue but not likely to happen in say the Oil market for a good while yet.

Tom. Yup someone makes a pellet / log stove combination. Think it fires up the pellets to light the logs, then if store needs topping up and no more logs pellets kick in. You could d it with separate appliances and some controls but very expensive.

Don't think pellet supply will be an issue, too many appliances out there now.
CPL sold their oil side to concentrate on pellets! calor I believe have invested heavily in pellets too

well, ive seen some nice 1m high by 56x56cm pellet stoves that do heating and water, for 2500 inc vat with delivery- would that be just a slot in install replacing current wood stove that has the 4 pipes for heating/water? theres a 950quid rebate from the government for it too.
any idea how much an install would cost on top of that pellet stove price??

To those thinking about replacing their old super-inefficient boiler...

Ours is 21 years old. BG keep threatening that when it goes wrong they may not be able to fix it. Their engineer said the only real thing that can go wrong that isn't available is the heat exchanger rusting through.

A new boiler will save us a estimated £100 per year (a detached/larger property would see bigger savings). Assuming a replacement cost of £2500 - £3000, that means the payback is 25-30 years! No chance a modern boiler will last that long!

Economically it makes no sense, environmentally it probably does make sense.

Road - what make are they. They will also need to be MCS approved to get any grants etc.

[url= http://www.ecoenergydepot.co.uk/wood-pellet-stoves-stoves-with-back-boilers-c-35_42.html ]STOVES with back boilers[/url]

as per link BEAR

initial over the phone estimate has it as 2000 for the stove/w back boiler and 800 - 1000 install.
then 950 cashback from the government

hmmmm looking promising.

That sounds resonable.
What about builders work/redecorating etc.
Chimney lined if required?
Electrical work?

Also
Assuming it's manual fill how many pellets can it hold and how long will they last?
Pellet storage?
Have you looked into cost of pellets and delivery. Where are they coming from?

Ours is 21 years old. BG keep threatening that when it goes wrong they may not be able to fix it. Their engineer said the only real thing that can go wrong that isn't available is the heat exchanger rusting through.

A new boiler will save us a estimated £100 per year (a detached/larger property would see bigger savings). Assuming a replacement cost of £2500 - £3000, that means the payback is 25-30 years! No chance a modern boiler will last that long!

That's our situation, 25 year old Potterton Nettaheat boiler. The HE did spring a small leak last year, rusted through round drain tap, but it's not sealed itself again, so I might get a few more years out of it. No idea how efficient it actually is though.....

Tony - be wary of a price quoted over the phone, these things tend to be expensive to install. Ask to see some of their other installations to check on their workmanship.

Sounds cheap considering all the potential work involved. If you need to scaffold to put a liner in that is half of the install cost gone, doesn't seem right to me.

existing wood burner has lined flue, already have all pipe work from existing stove into c/heating and hot water tank, potentially just need electric hook up for the pellet stove, fitting to existing flue
at least i hope so,
find out tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!