[Closed] Bike specific day van / stealth camper - brain storm

YouTube the Singletrack Sampler and look at his van build. It's a Ram Promaster van but I believe they are Fiat Ducatos. It's should lead you into loads of other van build videos.

Sink will be small and pretty useless and take up valuable space in a swb van. Wash up outside and enjoy the view. I manage to get two bikes in cross ways behind the seats and have a futon bed built up to fit storage underneath. A third of the bed I fold away for during the day. Swivel seats add huge amount of space. Sun roof for ventilation at night parking up anywhere you like. It’s all a compromise to see what you can, can’t live without.

If you get a transit custom with a tailgate, there is no "factory" way of opening the tailgate from inside . Guess you can add a switch similar to VW Transporter.
Not the end of the world if you have removed the bulkhead

Id go with a garrage under a double bed and a poptop + awning in a lwb low top van.

Reasons:
For solo trips and 'stealth' you can still sleep with the roof down.
Muddy bikes are out the way.
Massive storage space.
A propper bed
No need to re arrange all your luggage to sleep a second person.
Fighting chance of getting under car park barriers.
Still enough space infront of the bed to get changed or have a row of seats.
Second people IME are less enamoured with the idea of sleeping in a shed on wheels with the bikes.

It depends how far you stretch the 'medium sized' bit. Ford did/do a L4H3 version of the standard transit which was massive, but not as wide as the Iveco van (which is now just called a transit iirc).

I've almost completed doing this with a LWB T5 with tailgate.

Swivel double passenger seat up front so will transport 3 people (inc me the driver).
Full length bench bed running down side behind driver seat - pulls out to a very comfortable 4' 6" width with loads of storage underneath. A big heavy shelf sits across the wheel arches meaning I can at a push carry 3 MTBs with front wheels off using fork axle mounts all nose to tail (prob not wide enough for 29ers though).

Storage under shelf too. Ground anchor and monster lock to secure bikes. Cooking done of camping stoves that we had anyway under a modified tarp side awning (just a roof) - who wants to cook inside anyway? Makes the van stink!
Made a bespoke cupboard that stores quite a bit of stuff too.

When it's in camp mode - ie me and Mrs Rascal we use the pulled out bed.
If me, non-pulled out bed.
With mates - they camp - not getting THAT friendly with them! 😉

Works for us - if I wasn't just a technumpty I'd post some pics. Could email you them if I have your address...

@marin do you have any photos of your build?

Id go with a garrage under a double bed and a poptop + awning in a lwb low top van.

Although I love the idea of that, pop top will be out of budget.

If you get a transit custom with a tailgate, there is no “factory” way of opening the tailgate from inside .

Good to know, thanks. Would probably look to remove bulkhead just to make it feel a bit roomier. Any pros or cons to doing this?

Bed over bikes even in a high roof sprinter makes for a bed you can't sit up in. In a smaller van consider lwb version and make a garage across in the rear that bikes fit in across the van with front wheels off. You can then make a bed/sofa in the remaining space at a nicer level.

@rascal sounds great - I've sent you a PM with my email.

If you get a transit custom with a tailgate, there is no “factory” way of opening the tailgate from inside .

“No hostages are kept in this van overnight”

who wants to cook inside anyway? Makes the van stink!

I hear that alot usually people justifying their small vans.

It's not a thing. In real life. We open the roof light and the smell goes.

As for bikes under beds in a tall vivaro sized van....if you remove wheels and lay them sideways then life's good other wise you'll lying with your face pressed to the roof.

I have a bed over garage in my Iveco daily. I take front wheels out. And I can sit up in my bed

We also have a toilet (because tramping through other people's half buried shit to dig a hole when not in a site is less fun than emptying a sealed cassette)
Seating for 6 bed for 4

If I was to give anything up it would be the sink and microwave(cupboard....we rarely have 240 to use this)

I wouldn't be looking to put a proper stove in any time soon so that's not a concern. Ive seen some cool looking units on Instagram that sit behind passenger seats and slide out for cooking outside.

As for bikes under beds in a tall vivaro sized van….if you remove wheels and lay them sideways then life’s good

I think the garage is a no go, just musing different options. I like being able to just throw the bike in the back both wheels on when it's just me.

Van would be my only vehicle so whilst there's bound to be compromises, I don't want something massive.

I hear that alot usually people justifying their small vans.

It’s not a thing. In real life. We open the roof light and the smell goes.

A T5 isn't a small van, plus I don't have roof lights.
Have no issue cooking outside as means better use of space inside.

On the cooking inside thing, we do it all the time for up to 2 week holidays - it's not an issue. Only thing that causes a problem are sausages as they spit so much, so we only have bangers and mash if it's dry and we can cook outside 😀

Amdro do something for a T5 Kombi, some inspiration maybe. You could have 5 / 6 seats and still sleep in it with your bike

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Take a look at the exploria kombi bed. You can get the right height for the space you want, it’s for a t5 but I’d imagine it would go into anything else in an easy way. Gives you room underneath for bikes and kit - you will be closer to the ceiling than a regular bed but it’s not really an issue for sleeping.

If you get rid of the bulkhead you can no longer insulate against the heat of the cabin with all its glass windows in summer. Same goes for cold in winter I guess.

If you get rid of the bulkhead you can no longer insulate against the heat of the cabin with all its glass windows in summer. Same goes for cold in winter I guess.

Our camper the hottest / coldest part is always the cab, you can get silver screens that go someway to sort this, although they're a bit of a hassle so we don't bother and just put up with it. I'd imagine the front glass wouldn't get totally covered in condensation either with a bulk head.

On the plus side you can jump through without getting wet and it's a handy space to chuck stuff to get it out the way.

T5 isn’t a small van

Well it is in terms of being a useful camper.

It makes a Good tin tent.

A SWB T5, from personal experience is way too small to fit you, bikes, a bed and any meaningful storage into without a pop top/roof bed unless you and your bikes are tiny.

The T5 twin passenger is more like a 1.5 seat and your middle seat passenger will get elbowed in the face or chest every time you select 2nd or 4th gear.  On a swivel it’s awkward to turn around without the handbrake off and/or the passenger door open and the angle of the squab and back rest mean it’s not that comfy as a ‘lounging’ seat when swivelled.

The LWB is a little bit better but if I was going down the ‘smallish’ camper van route again (rather than the 2 berth coach built motorhome we have now) id go for a SWB Boxer as it’s not much bigger than a T5 typenvan but wider and squarer.

Still plugging away at ideas - currently torn between a mid sized van, or something I can stand up in.

Has anyone made their own sliding shelf to fit two bikes?

A T5 isn’t a small van, plus I don’t have roof lights.

It certainly isn't a big van

Have no issue cooking outside as means better use of space inside.

Vive la difference. I can't understand the mentality that prioritises keeping bikes in the van and doing the cooking outside the van. Yuk. One of the best bits of van is being able to cook and eat as a family of four in the warmth.

Has anyone got any experience with a garage with bed above in a mid sized van? See lots in big vans, but would the ceiling height be miserable in a HT Custom?

It's OK in a medium roof Transit if that's any help. LWB though so footprint less of an issue. Had to compromise a bit to get the balance of bed height/garage height, there's a thread I started on here somewhere with folks giving some useful insights

Any van will be a compromise. Big is great until you need to navigate a narrow Italian street or a city that only has multi storey car parks. My build is based on the 'long' vito, and we treat it like a tent on wheels.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/vito-dualiner-camper-build/
It has space in the back for bikes, and a full size double bed. It has no sink, cooker or built-in fridge.
I have recently made some changes to remove the rarely needed rear seats and increase the storage space, put in a sliding drawer for the bikes beneath the bed, and build a rear storage unit that acts like a kitchen under the tailgate. I must get some photos to update my thread.
My wife and I find the van perfect for two + dog + 2 bikes in Europe, and we've lived in the van for extended trips of more than 3 weeks.

This is a similar idea, but uses a 3/4 bed to allow spare for appliances:
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/simple-bike-camper-conversion/
To my eyes it just needs a bulkhead to separate the bikes from the bed.

I can’t understand the mentality that prioritises keeping bikes in the van and doing the cooking outside the van. Yuk. One of the best bits of van is being able to cook and eat as a family of four in the warmth

I’ve wondered about a day van that explicitly isn’t designed to be slept in, but has seating/loo/kitchenette. Plan would be to use a tent to sleep in.

This is entirely hypothetical and I’ve no idea whether it works with a sensible sized vehicle…

@ratherbeintobago - what you're describing is a welfare van - the type you see on construction sites, motorway  maintenance etc. They have a toilet, seating for the workers and power for kettles microwaves etc.  Most have diesel heaters too.

@ElShalimo

Yes, have seen them about, often on a LWB Transit or equivalent.

I was wondering if could be done on something smaller.

Edit: Would’ve thought a diesel heater would be obligatory so everyone could sit in the warmth without the engine running?

I reckon you'd struggle to find a small one as they're designed to stand up in hence big Transit, Ducato etc.

Aye, but would that be necessary for a day van? Could I get by with a pop top (or just not bother)?

Take a look at www.leosv.co.uk/kinder

Bed is split in 2 half's and has horizontal supports. You could get something similar fabricated. I saw the Kinder at the NEC last year I liked the layout and flexibility it gave.

I can’t understand the mentality that prioritises keeping bikes in the van and doing the cooking outside the van.

Keeping bikes inside is number 1 priority for me. Having a couple of expensive bikes on show for all to see is not conducive to a good night sleep.

Current thinking is a sliding tray down one side that holds 2 bikes, then a slide out bed that occupies the remainder of the space.

In regards to a garage beneath a bed - would laying bikes on their side (like you would in the back of a car) allow the bed to be lower while still transporting bikes with wheels on (a slide out tray like in the Singletrack Sampler van would make it relatively easy to access the bikes)?

EDIT: would probably only work with road bikes / narrow bars as wide bars on their side would be almost as tall as a bike stood up without front wheel!

My first van fitted two bikes lying under the bed but it was a poor use of space, took up loads of floor space in terms of storing other crap. So the second van has the bed at a height that allows bikes to stand underneath (with front wheel and seatpost removed) which leaves more than enough headroom to sit on the bed above. I can easily get three bikes (four with some juggling) under there and the front half of the bed has the fridge, batteries, spare wheel, tools, bbq and heater under it.

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^ That's the way to do it, but you need to go to one of the 'big' vans for the height & width, at least. Doesn't have to be *long* though.

MWB Relay (L2H2). We can sit up in bed - just.

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Will take a single bike with wheels on, but you need to be careful what you put where to keep this option

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Still room for a toilet compartment, fridge, cooker & sink.

Build thread coming at some point...

If you are likely to want to re-register the van as a camper at some point make sure you check out the recently updated DVLA requirements which may influence your choice of donor vehicle. One of the requirements is now "a high-top roof (this does not include a pop-top elevating roof)".

I think that bikes are safe on a rack if you are camping on a site or at an event. Getting a couple of bikes off a locked rack a foot away from your head in bed is going to be tricky. Add a couple of locks if you are worried. I’d only put bikes inside if I was leaving the van somewhere for a while.

If by ‘stealth camping’ you mean parking up in a lay by, or in a dodgy spot then that’s a different matter. P.s. stealth camping is not that nice anyway imo.

This applies to t5 sized vans, bigger one with a garage than maybe.

I’ve wondered about a day van that explicitly isn’t designed to be slept in, but has seating/loo/kitchenette. Plan would be to use a tent to sleep in.

Now that sounds really really pointless IMHO having to pitch the tent potentially in the rain, get out and in the tent when you need the loo, but still have to clean the toilet in your van every few days.

Then have to move from tent to van at vatmripus points.

If you are likely to want to re-register the van as a camper at some point make sure you check out the recently updated DVLA requirements which may influence your choice of donor vehicle. One of the requirements is now “a high-top roof (this does not include a pop-top elevating roof)”.

No - this has been misrepresented across the internets, by people getting angsty that their stealth van is no longer going to be allowed to pretend it is a camper. The HiTop not Pop-Top is one of a list of things (including awning rail, graphics etc) which DVLA will use to assess if it "looks like a camper" from the outside. Essentially it should be obvious to the Police at the roadside when you pass at 68mph whether the vehicle is likely to be a camper, and within the limit or a van and over the limit!

As far as I understand it, the only compulsory addition is the second window. The other features are a check list of things that would be giveaways, but no individual element is compulsory - so pop-tops are definitely still able to get camper status if everything else about them looks like a camper.

to be perfectly honest its not that mad an idea.

we use ours alot more for days out than we do for sleeping.

Lunch/Loo/warming up/comfy seat/table (id still rather empty my own pan than use the portaloos at linn of dee for example.)

it is great for Ski days - when everyones queing for a shite overpriced burger(i wouldnt grudge the price it there was something that wasnt fried to death and then boiled in a bain marie for hours)
queuing for the bog and freezing cold.

Now that sounds really really pointless IMHO having to pitch the tent potentially in the rain, get out and in the tent when you need the loo, but still have to clean the toilet in your van every few days.

I can see the logic (although I'd have thought camping in a driveaway awning rather than a separate tent was better). IF most of its use will be as a day van then equip it well for that with the facilities you want and make the compromise on the occassional overnight. If you were using it more regularly to sleep in, or were likely as you say to use it overnight regardless of weather then the balance flips and it might be you need to compromise a little on the day facilities to make the sleeping better.

I can’t understand the mentality that prioritises keeping bikes in the van and doing the cooking outside the van.

Keeping bikes inside is number 1 priority for me. Having a couple of expensive bikes on show for all to see is not conducive to a good night sleep.

That.
There's the usual problems of external racks, parking prangs, road debris being kicked up, that sort of thing, plus the security issue. A weekend away may involve staying at a friend's, bikes inside the van no problem, get back late and knackered, bikes inside just leave them. Height/length less of a problem on ferries, shorter so easier to park, inside is far, far better.
Cooking outside is often very pleasant in the summer, which is usually when I'm staying in the van. Can still eat inside if it's raining.

Covid put a delay on this - but still planning on getting something sorted by next summer.

How essential is heating? A diesel heater adds a deal of complexity and cost to a build. If a van is well insulated and keeps the bulkhead, will I regret not having heating?

Main use is going to be summer, but Autumn trips to north Wales also need to be factored in.

We had it fitted in our T4. Never used it! During the colder months we tended to stay on sites with hook up anyway so used a small fan heater or tiny oil filled radiator.

Not needed in summer in my opinion. Lots of people say it’s a must. We are not putting it in the T6 we are getting converted and will see if we miss it (can always add it later).

If it was just for you, I'd suggest the Puggy Partner - depending on length of bike you could get normal length or the slightly longer one. With a single airbed on one side and bike on other you could easily sleep and travel in one. Washing/cooking would need to be done outside but why stink the inside out more than it needs?

That would be properly basic but mean the basic need.

Saw a conversion on YouTube (unfinished) with the standard 3/4 rock and roll with side kitchen and storage in a LWB to provide some boot space.

The twist was that instead of a permanent bulkhead and bikes going in the 18-24" space at the back, the bulkhead was fixed to the seat. The seat would slide all the way up to the front and had brackets on it, so for day trips you could put a couple of bikes in there without any dismantling. If you were staying away, you take a wheel or two off and it fits in the back against the bulkhead.

I had an Eberspacher in my lwb Transhit which was great- however two downsides:

1. You need to drill quite a few holes through the floor for air inlet, exhaust and fuel supply.

2. They are noisey buggers, the fuel pump clicks and the inlet and exhaust both need silencers fitting to not annoy fellow campers/yourself!

I've got a propex, much quieter than the Eber on my work van.

Rarely use our heater. Occasionally in the morning in the colder months, and even then only when the GF is with me.

Decent sleeping bag /duvet at night, a down jacket and a cup of tea when you're up.