Michael Moore has an interesting take on it.
Kamala Harris will be in a much stronger position to win if she can run as the President of the United States. As the incumbent President.
It hadn’t crossed my mind before, and I’ve only considered it for the 30 seconds since I read it… but he has a point.
On the far right chat-boards it looks like the old birther conspiracy has been resurrected.
Which has to be good news. Once you just take as a given that the MAGA lot are lost, the uglier they look the better.
It hadn’t crossed my mind before, and I’ve only considered it for the 30 seconds since I read it… but he has a point
Same here. Unless I am missing something it would be a genius move. On the condition that she doesn't screw up as POTUS obviously
Edit: Presumably she could still run for two full terms?
Edit: Presumably she could still run for two full terms?
Was just thinking the same - presumably if she were to become acting president, ...
Sadly this is mostly where I’m at too. It’s democracy’s achilles heel. Something has happened though – society has given up trying.
Well it's not really by accident. Putin has put then best part of a quarter of a centuries work in to global disinformation campaigns and he's not going to persist in doing that if there were no significant outcomes. His whole goal is that nobody would know what is true anymore, the result of which has been that a lot of people don't even really care whats true anymore. That not to say that the people are stupid, people can only really 'know' what is presented to them as information. The outcome, collectively is 'stupidity' but thats a situation that has been deliberately crafted and we should really focus on the perpetrators rather than the victims.
It's all Putin's fault?
maccruiskeen - I'm going to make an assumption here.... if you were able to vote in America, you wouldn't have voted Trump would you? And I'm guessing you didn't vote for Farage's party either? If not why not? What has made you immune in your opinion? I mean if you live in the same world that Putin has distorted so no one knows truth from lies, how come you do still?
martinhutch Full Member
I wouldn’t write her off, and one of her advantages is just how obviously race-baity and misogynistic the Republican campaign will be. They have nothing else.
I think I read something last week that at the RNC there was a lot of Harris-bashing that centred on pinning the blame for the problems (real or otherwise) at the southern border on her, in case she ended up being the Democrat's candidate.
I think that immigration was part of her brief as vice president, which some seem to have considered a way to kick an intractable problem into the long grass while the president concentrated on things that could be fixed more easily. I don't know the truth of that though, but I think that many people like me who follow US politics to an extent but not closely would say she's not made much impact over the course of Biden's presidency.
but my only hope is that swing voters will come to their senses and recoil when presented with such a campaign of such inescapable ugliness and bigotry.
I'm sorry to inform you, they love it. They're all on board. Its the same here too.
Ive just doom scrolled past an old photo of WW1 soldiers off to Ypres on facebook, and the comments section is FULL to the brim of Margrets and Grahams:
"everything they fought for gone to waste, are[sic] country is a wreck, its all because of brown people"
People are appalling.
In fact, I think Trump would avoid that debate at all costs.
maccruiskeen – I’m going to make an assumption here…. if you were able to vote in America, you wouldn’t have voted Trump would you? And I’m guessing you didn’t vote for Farage’s party either? If not why not? What has made you immune in your opinion?
Something doesn't need to 100% effective to be effective - especially if division and polarisation in the goal. I also wouldn't presume that I'm immune. It's more likely the case I'm just not presently the target. And If I was I probably wouldn't be aware I was.
I’d like to see a debate between Harris and Trump. I’d put money on an ex-lawyer against a racist, sexist grifter.
Let's remind ourselves that Hillary Clinton graduated from Yale Law School. During her legal career, before she moved into politics, the National Law Journal named her in their list of the 100 most influential lawyers in the US 🙂
The only person who'd come out of a debate well against Trump is Tony Clifton
So the answer is to kill Putin and the global geopolitical situation will change to a much more favourable one.
It is interesting that the luring appeal of conspiracy theories now stretches beyond its core right-wing base.
I guess it makes them particularly attractive if they can be used as an explanation for failures that you might otherwise have to take responsibility for.
I think "the answer" (ie something that could be done) might be to re-regulate broadcast news in the USA, as it was by the FCC before 1987. Something much harder to put in place would be to hold social media companies more to account for how their services are used for disinformation amplification and grifting based on known falsehoods.
Thanks for the earworm @gordimhor ... what a tune.
I think it's a bit late in the day for Biden to step down and Harris go into the election as the serving president, unless some sort of major global event happens where she can show strong leadership but I don't think any of us really want such an event...
Looks like Trump has got yet more of this countries intellectual heavyweights onside
https://Twitter.com/OK_Magazine/status/1815295582287896760
Biden resigning as Pres and having Harris take over as Pres doesn't give her an unassailable advantage but it does reinforce the image of her as Biden's stooge with no identity of her own. Her lack of profile to date means she doesn't start with a platform - but she also doesn't have a huge amount of baggage to weigh her down in this election.
I’d like to see a debate between Harris and Trump. I’d put money on an ex-lawyer against a racist, sexist grifter.
Starmer didn't really do that well against Johnson.
Looks like Trump has got yet more of this countries intellectual heavyweights onside
She's president of Iceland right?
Not sure she be voicing an opinion in her position...
Plus if she is 'promoted' to President, it opens up a VP vacancy. The candidate for that would have to ratified by a vote in Congress, so that wouldn't happen before the election. And means that the Speaker of Congress, currently a weird evangelical Trumper, would be next in line to be president should anything happen to Harris.
Trump lacks the subtlety (and self awareness) to deal with a black woman in a debate. The resulting car crash wouldn't change the minds of the idiots supporting him but might focus the attention of people who don't want a racist sex offender in control of their country until 2029.
I think Harris will have a few weeks to see if she cuts thru / the polls improve. If she does OK then she will get the nomination unopposed. If she doesn't then it will be a contested nomination. Maybe.
She is not going to take votes from the right. Wrong genitals and wrong skin colour :-). However she may well be able to get those undecided / swing voters onside. I think her focus on reproducti9ve rights will be a vote winner. Anti abortionists will not be voting democrat anyway
I think her a better candidate than H Clinton was
but it does reinforce the image of her as Biden’s stooge with no identity of her own. Her lack of profile to date means she doesn’t start with a platform
If Biden resigns and she becomes president? I would have the actual opposite. If as looks possible she becomes the official Democrat candidate the fact that she is Biden's vice president makes her look more like a Biden stooge that if she was the acting president.
It would also obviously mean that she would enter the presidential election with a much bigger profile.
I doubt that it will happen, after all it was quite a job to get Biden to eventually declare that he wouldn't seek a second term, but personally I am not seeing any obvious negatives to Harris taking over now as acting president.
I am not seeing any obvious negatives to Harris taking over now as acting president.
Questions are already being asked in the press/media/sections of the Democratic party about the legitimacy of her being 'anointed' rather than chosen by the party who are free to nominate whoever they want now that Biden has said he's not running , I think Biden stepping aside to allow her to become Pres smacks of trying to control a very fractious party that would probs cause more issues than it solves.
Questions are already being asked in the press/media/sections of the Democratic party about the legitimacy of her being ‘anointed’ rather than chosen by the party who are free to nominate whoever they want now that Biden has said he’s not running
Surely the answers to these questions everyone knows? The president is in poor health and frail and Harris is the vice president. It is literally in her job description and the nation voted for her to be vice president.
I can't see a problem. Although presumably Trump and his supporters can
I actually wonder if theres a smart bit of strategy in play here.
Regardless of how Trump and Biden have been poling against other, theres also polling that shows sizeable numbers of voters on both sides of the equation haven't really wanted either candidate, with both their ages being a factor. The biggest threat to both party isn't the opposition but the risk of their own voters not turning out to vote.
I doubt it was Biden's hope or plan not to run again, but the timing of the announcement is perhaps very good. Both Trump and Biden have been presumptive candidates up until now- winners of the primaries - but it's only as of the last few days the Trumps candidacy has been set in stone. He is the republican candidate, Biden was still the presumptive candidate and the Democratic convention is a while off.
Whoever they do choose, just by not being one of the same old faces, solves that broader poling issue for the Democrats but comes too late for the republicans to change tack.
Half glass full. Like it. And it’s very plausible!
Going to go out on a limb here: there's no chance Biden will beat Trump in November now.
Probably not....
The only person I can see taking on Trump in a debate is a good, surreal standup comedian. I think Ross Noble or Noel Fielding could take him. A sensible lawyer type has no chance. They deal in facts and logic. Two things that don’t exist in Trumpville.
Stewart Lee’s piece in The Guardian made me chuckle. Basically it is all Macauley Culkin’s fault.
Trumps candidacy has been set in stone. He is the republican candidate
This. And he's a shitbag that they can't get rid of
Now his nemesis, the other old codger, has dropped out, he kind of looks a bit pointless. Would the GOP have gone for Trump if they'd known he was up against Harris, or anyone else for that matter? I don't know, but it does feel like he's the wrong tool for the job now.
Joe Biden's second term was set in 2022 when the "red wave" didn't materialise during the mid-term elections and he was "unbeatable". In 2022 exit polls suggested that voters were far more concerned about the economy (31%) and abortion (27%) than they were about gun control and migration, which was where Donald Trump focussed.
The economy reached a high in late 2023/early 2024 but has since showed signs of cooling towards the November election. Unemployment will be a biggie for obvious reasons (4.1% and rising), but Trump didn't have a good record during his presidency, "The economy lost 2.9 million jobs. The unemployment rate increased by 1.6 percentage points to 6.3%." https://www.factcheck.org/2021/10/trumps-final-numbers/
In 2022 Trump talked up the wrong things. In 2024 he managed to stick to the script for about half an hour before he went off one at the RNC. Voting against Trump because he's Trump is a big motivator for Dems, almost 67% of the total electorate turned out in 2020, the highest since 1992
Being the incumbent, in and of itself, isn't a positive as many former presidents will tell you. It's all to play for and the important thing is not to rush to appoint a candidate
I also got the feeling the Dems (and possibly Biden) were waiting for Trump to be set in as the GOP nominee before he stepped down.
Although, that would require a belief that the GOP would actually nominate someone other than Trump. And I don’t think that would have been an option. So maybe I’m guilty of retrospectively agreeing with the narrative.
Nevertheless, I think Harris is best placed to beat Trump (now! not a year or two ago). She nor nobody else will change the MAGA base, but I think she’ll get a chunk of the needed Dem vote mobilised.
Biden might be getting past it, but I think his political instincts are still sharp enough to see the value of waiting until the Republicans had shot their bolt at the RNC, before announcing he was stepping down. How much it'll take the wind out of the sails of the Trump campaign remains to be seen, but the world would be a happier place if Trump becomes a two-time loser come November.
Biden is your typical old man who has only given up the keys after he's rolled the car. He didn't wait until now to help the Dems or screw the Republicans, it just became significantly more likely that he was going to lose, so he saves some face by dropping out rather than being the one to hand the presidency to Trump.
rather than being the one to hand the presidency to Trump
That is absolutely why he’s done it. If he has been convinced that he can’t beat Trump, and that the only chance to stop Trump is for someone else to stand against him… then of course that is the reason to step aside.
“ How much it’ll take the wind out of the sails of the Trump campaign remains to be seen”
On the radio earlier, the USA correspondent was saying Trumps lot are raging, as all their plans were to attack Bidens age and mental capacity. That was their campaign, nothing about what they were going to do, just saying ‘dont vote for dozy Joe’ was their strategy.
Also, they dont think Trump will do the live debate with Harris, as she’ll be far more lucid than him, especially now that they turn off the mics when it isnt his turn to speak, so he cannot bawl out ‘fake fake’ every time she tells a fact.
Their next target will be anything to do with California, of which Harris has an association. Apparently they see Cali, and especially LA, as the cesspit of the World, and it’ll bring down the rest of the USA if left as it is. Of course, this is all due to the Democrats in charge, who are , literally, devils disciples allowing the sins of LA. The USA is so messed up.
correspondent was saying Trumps lot are raging
Donald Trump says Republicans should be ‘reimbursed for fraud’ for the money spent campaigning against Joe Biden
https://fortune.com/2024/07/22/donald-trump-republicans-reimbursed-fraud-joe-biden-kamala-harris/
lol!
I'm pretty sure that's not how it works! don't play the player, play the game, don!
