Ok so me & the gf of 14yrs split 2mths ago & are now at the point of sorting out who get's what from the equity in the house.
When we bought it she wasn't working but had the deposit money to put in of circa £15'000.
There is nothing in writing, at least not signed, to say this will be taken in to account when the property is sold. I have told her that before the rest of the equity is split 50/50 we can take this amount out. This i feel is reasonable? She wants interest on this £15'000 of £5'000 which i feel is taking the pi$$.
Over the early years i was paying much more in to the joint account than her but we both still managed to build up lump sums of £10'000 each. Over recent 2-3 years self employed work has been tough for me & I've been able to put in less per month than she has as she has a stable job. I have used all of my £10'000 to try & keep to my end of the bargain on what goes in to the joint account. We take a set amount each mth for personal use & everything else gets used for household stuff.
So what do the STW collective think. Am i being unreasonable in saying that she should get £15k plus 50% of the equity or not. Should she get interest on her initial £15k investment. There are no kids involved in case anyone is wondering.
If there are also any legal minds on here I'd be interested in hearing from a law point of view.
Cheers
Is the hassle worth £5000?
I think you're being overly reasonable. I think many in your situation would just go for a 50:50 split and forget about where the deposit came form unless there was something in writing.
Key question is who's names are on the deeds / mortage.
Negotiate for "interest" of less than £5,000.
I think you are being reasonable.
You're probably entitled to a full 50% of the equity.
I would think it is fair that her original investment of £15,000 should have grown somewhat.. is the house worth more now than when you bought it? you need to see what percentage the value of the house has increasd and give her that on top of her investment + 50% of the equity. Did you put in for the deposit? If she fronted all of the deposit then she should get that back IMO.
Its tricky, 15k then is worth less than 15k now. Though yes it sounds like you put more into the equity side of things. Look into (quietly incase it goes the other way) what 15k then adjusted for inflation is now, then maybe split the difference. End of the day things sound to be reasonably amicable and 5k will still be cheaper than getting the lawyers in.
"I'll give you half I own plus an extra £15k."
"Not good enough, I want £20k."
"Tell you what then, we'll go for a 50/50 split and you can sue me. See how much better off we both are after the lawyers have taken their cut."
Strikes me as you're being perfectly reasonable, but I'm no expert. I don't really understand how people can go from being the loves of each other's lives to wanting to screw each other as badly as possible.
I have a close friend that bought a house with his then GF he had the deposit money from the death of his father... he never saw a penny of that when they split.. seeemd unfair at the time but everyone else makes better points than mine.
Interest! It wasn't a f***ing bank account, it was a house purchase. Just because the relationship's gone tits up doesn't mean she can retrospectively look at what she WOULD have done with the 15K.
15K back + 50% of whatever's left is a very good deal, if she turns that down then Cougar's route is the only alternative.
the interest on her 15k is the half of the remaining equity.
TBH without a deed of trust or whatever its called detailing her 15k, she's lucky you are being that reasonable. You could just say ok sod the 15k lets have a 50/50 split.
15k in 1998 is approx 21.5k now
[url= http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/Historic-inflation-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html ]http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/Historic-inflation-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html[/url]
House is registered in joint names as joint ownership (no stated equity split) so yes i could go for the full 50% but that's not my style.
House was bought in 2001 for £104'000 & now valued at circa £220'000.
Unkle & Rizla - This is what she is saying however as i have pointed out, if it hadn't been for my income we would never have been able to afford to keep the house for the first 9-10 years as her income wasn't sufficient to cover all bills where as mine was so we have both put in over the years one way or another, i'm not going to charge her interest on the monthly money over & above her's which I've contributed & don't see what she should do the same with the lump sum.
EDIT: wot toys19 said 🙂
Toy's - Thats what i've told her but her words were, without my deposit we would never have been able to buy the property!!
Let's hope it doesn't get to that cougar but if it does does anyone know of any hitmen,,,,, the life insurance is still in place 😆
yeah without your extra payments into the mortgage and hard work, or your mortgagability because of your salary you would not have got the mortgage either.
Send her to a solicitor to get legal advice, she will get a shock.
In the meantime don't bother discussing/thinking about it, not worth the hassle.
what would she want if there was negative equity?
House is registered in joint names as joint ownership (no stated equity split) so yes i could go for the full 50% but that's not my style.House was bought in 2001 for £104'000 & now valued at circa £220'000.
Unkle & Rizla - This is what she is saying however as i have pointed out, if it hadn't been for my income we would never have been able to afford to keep the house for the first 9-10 years as her income wasn't sufficient to cover all bills where as mine was so we have both put in over the years one way or another, i'm not going to charge her interest on the monthly money over & above her's which I've contributed & don't see what she should do the same with the lump sum.
I concur, 100%. You are being reasonable, she is not. In my honest opinion.
In terms of how to take it forward, don't know, presumably you want to keep things amicable?
If not then demand a full 50% equity share, see if that wakes her up a bit.
When you moved in she "owned" £15k more of the house than you did.
Her return on that £15k investment, should be whatever percentage the house has increased in value over the time you owned it.
You couldn't have bought it without her investment, so it seems only fair that she sees a return on that investment.
This may not be the Legal way of doing it, but it seems like the "right way" way to me.
So if the house has in fact increased in value by 33.3% in the time you have owned it, then £20k return on her £15k investment seems fair.
EDIT. - just seen the purchase price and current value. above.
The house has increased by 112% (ish) so really she could be asking for around £31.5K return on her £15k investment in the house
Ask yourself what she would do if the tables were turned. I think you have your answer 🙂
(sorry about the split by the way..)
Having just done this myself, we split everything 50/50 regardless of initial investment.
I did somehow manage to end up with 10k's worth of furniture though!
she reckons her £15k would have grown by 33% as an investment since 2001?
birky - don't think you can compare inflation with interest rates
toys / cougar +1
Sounds to me like she's either trying it on or is extremely naive. She's lucky to be getting her full deposit back, let alone anything more.
House is registered in joint names as joint ownership (no stated equity split) so yes i could go for the full 50% but that's not my style.
Bollocks to her, then. You're doing the right thing by offering £15k (it's what I'd have done too), she should be tearing your hand off. If she's going to take the piss, withdraw that offer and see how she likes the idea of 'only' fifteen grand then.
i'm not going to charge her interest on the monthly money over & above her's which I've contributed & don't see what she should do the same with the lump sum.
Maybe that's your counter, then. "Sure, I'll be happy to pay you the interest on the £15k. Let me just work out what you owe me on interest for my overpayments, then we can work out how much you're in deficit overall."
In honesty, I wouldn't get involved in any of this. Women are <rash generalisation alert> very good at arguing over minutiae and ultimately it's a game in which you're probably going to come out worst off. As a wise computer once said, the only way of winning is not to play. I'd suggest a gambit of "we should split the house 50/50 as we've both contributed significantly over the years, however as a gesture of goodwill I'm prepared to give you an additional 15k to repay your deposit. Take it or leave it." Do not enter into discussions that run along the lines of "yes, but I put in an extra grand in March 2001," because there be dragons.
how much have you subbed her for mortgage?
My initial response was just that.. after some thought and reading other peoples comments I now see why your're being reasonable. her £15k is of equivalent or less value to the payments you made for the first 10 years..( I missed this somehow) remind her of this. Then see a solicitor. Good luck. 🙂
Looking at it totally coldly, the house is approximately doubled in value since you bought it, so that initial £15k 'stake' of hers is now worth £30k+.
However, what it comes down to is a simple equation, i.e. is
percieved cost of what you deem to be fair - legal costs > £5000
When me and my other half split, we both took some financial stuff on the chin. We both judged that it wasn't worth the hassle of fighting over relatively small amounts.
If she is wanting interest on the 15k then surly it is only fair you get recompense for your additional payment on the mortgage in the initial few years.
At the end of the day you have 3 options
1 Try and convince her you are being reasonable with everything being taken into consideration.
2 Give in and pay her to get everything settled sharpish and move on
3 Tell her politely to take her proposal and role it tightly, grease it lightly and shove it. Then let the lawyers sort it out and take their cut
4 Compromise on the £5k to settle quickly for less stress/hassle.
Toys and cougArs argments also have validity. By buying a house with her money and living it, she has saved on rent and seen her 15k grow into a sizeable share of equity.
It may be worth, quietly, seeing a solicitor to see how the legal reality lies. Don't let on incase the ground is soft and she lawyers up, but no harm in getting an informed opinion, over that of a bunch of people skiving at work 😀
edit: sorry 😆
Coug[b]a[/b]r.
Grr, argh.
[quote=Cougar ]Coug[b]a[/b]r.
Grr, argh.
You think you've got it bad? It seems half the keyboards in the UK don't have an "h" key !!!
I was in a similar situation many years ago. It all comes down to what you're able to negotiate because legal fees would take all of what you're arguing over.
[i]By buying a house with her money and living it, she has saved on rent and seen her 15k grow into a sizeable share of equity.[/i]
It could be fairly argued that the equity in the house is:
£220k - mortgage settlement - £32k (which is what her 15k is now worth with the increase in the value of the house).
So, if the mortgage settlement is, say 100k, then the equity is:
220-100-32 = 88k. So you get 44k, she gets 76k.
Maybe just pay the 5k and be done with it...
Sorry, but if I'd stupped up the 15K deposit and seen that level of equity growth, Id want more than that back at the end personally.
If the house has doubled in value then so has her 15K. So I say it is reasonable for her to expect about 30K+ back
Cheers guy's.
She's not reasonable about money which is the trouble & has caused the issues that ultimately led to us splitting up.
Her parents are visiting for a while (not staying here) & are very rational, her mum thinks her daughter has made a massive mistake in splitting with me as do most of her friends but that's by the by.
I'm hoping they can talk some sense in to her so we can just get on with it. Oh & yes IMO it is worth it over £5k given I'm still paying a loan back for some work we had done to the house a few yrs ago which i won't see a penny in help from her on!
Cheers again guys...... will up date you all how it goes as i know you all love a good relationship thread 😉
A friends ex went for this too, in the end she got 50% of the equity as the deposit wasn't in writing. He, like you, offered the deposit back and then 50% of what is left...
She got all shirty and went legal, she got a big bill, he didn't as a Lawyer owed him a favour (plus hated her family - small town).
she'll get more than that back at the end djg, 15k plus 50% of the balance of the equity. Or have I missed something?
anyway, bigsi, as above, your best approach would be to give her £500 cash to go and talk to a solicitor and then come back when she has some sense.
Not how I meant it, the OP has payed in a larger share of mortgage because he could, she put in the deposit because she could.It could be fairly argued that the equity in the house is:£220k - mortgage settlement - £32k (which is what her 15k is now worth with the increase in the value of the house).
So, if the mortgage settlement is, say 100k, then the equity is:
220-100-32 = 88k. So you get 44k, she gets 76k.
Maybe just pay the 5k and be done with it...
They both contributed to the house, in different way according to their means at the time.n Having read the OP again, and thought about it, either 50/50 split, or just sit down with a calculator and work it all out. One way or the other, rather than a cherry pick, but that is a pretty sure way of ensuring ill held grudges and bad feelings etc...
I struggle with long sentences you are being very reasonabbly
Basically [ well if you were married] it would all be split 50/50 including pensions earned to date and possibly other stuff.
Who paid for what or contributed the most is irrelvant it is all to be shared as joint assets- assumin gyou ar ebnoth named on the mortgage etc.
I would tell her to accept the deal or you will argue 50/50 and advise her to see a solicitor who will advise her to accept your offer - then withdraw it and offer ehrr 10 k 😈
Are you staying in the house?
Hmmmm, I went through a messy divorce a few years back and we split the proceeds from the house as follows:-
We each took back our deposit. Anything else was split 50:50. So kind of not what your ex is trying to do.
Solicitors and Judge thought this was fair.
The counter argument is you need to work out exactly who has spent what over the last 14 years. A deposit is just part of a financial commitment.
These things are never easy. Use a solicitor - but don't get into tit-for-tat arguments over stuff like this.
In the grand scheme of life it's not worth it.
Oh & she wants me to sit down with her tonight and work out what she will be able to borrow as a mortgage & what its gonna cost her because as a mortgage advisor thats what i do for a living.
Jog on kitty 😆
Sorry, but if I'd stupped up the 15K deposit and seen that level of equity growth, Id want more than that back at the end personally.
Assuming they then both contributed equally afterwards, which doesn't seem to be the case.
Besides which, people contribute to a house in other ways. Ever decorated? Put up shelves? Fitted a kitchen? Who paid for all that? Who pays all the utility bills? How can you even begin to add that up?
It's like trying to split a restaurant bill by arguing who had the steak, and if someone skipped a starter but had dessert, and whether you had two pints of lager or three, only it's a meal that lasted 14 years. Madness.
