[Closed] Basic cars

have a word with that Guy Martin bloke, he'll go make you one....

KIA?

Dacia Duster? Or just get an old car.

Because with most modern cars, you can have your cake AND eat it. Even with all the extra gadgets to account for, cars have (generally) become more and more reliable over the years*.

*i'm sure someone will come up with examples to counter this.

Still far too many gadgets on a Kia!
I'm thinking Series 1 Landy levels of sopistication in a well made, quality modern product. 3 pedals , a gearstick, some seats, a heater and some dials to keep an eye on things with. Windows that open would be nice. That's it. I am quite capable of turning a key in lock if I want to lock my car, I don't need a choice of three buttons on a remote which will lock me out when the battery dies.
.

Or just get an old car.

Even with all the extra gadgets to account for, cars have (generally) become more and more reliable over the years*.

That's the problem. I have to have old ones becaus eof budget limitations. Yes, they are generally more reliable than a 1930s Austin but think how much more reliable they would be without all the non-sense. Why scrap an otherwise perfecly good car because the electronic keyless ignition has failed and will cost more than the 10yr old car is worth to replace. What was wrong with a having key?

Trabant ?

Look to India....

Get an old Golf?

Yes, I agree with Rudebwoy, about India, not the Trabby obviously.
That Tata Nano, just a basic car, all works as it should but nothing fancy (and costs the equivalent of £1,500) A big car built on that principal is exactly what I'm on about.
It's coming to Europe soon and will be suitably equiped for European tastes. and will cost about £6,500. They've really missed the point of the whole car doing that.
That's the question really, why do European tastes demand all the frills, where are all the singlespeers?
Old cars are all well and good but by their very nature are more likely to have high miles on them and more rust than newer cars...

My brother is like you lol, he owns a, 3l german s capri, a mk1 escort van, mk1 fiesta supersport, two mk 4 fiestas and 2 2.8l capris mk3 but hes just had his newest car, well a van a transit connect, its more reliable than his old carb type cars, comfier and dosent take a body builder to change gear or park (no power steering) if you want basic motoring look at basic c1s or older saxos ul get power steering and thats about it tbh, or look into a land rover, a lot of farmers round our way have em n theyre 20plus years old even newre ones still have barely any specs, but their built to do certain things

could go to india, have a holiday, buy one and drive it back.....and save a load of dough, take a video diary and some tv people will buy it off you..

Most of the cost/weight increase is due to safety and emissions regulations isn't it?

Those stripped out cars like the Clio Cup or Porsche/Aston Martin take out air-con and electric windows and end up saving about 50kg max on a 1.5 ton car.

It's a nice idea. But it's cold out tonight so I was glad for my heaters, my heated windscreen, and my aircon to suck out the dampness from the 2 (non-basic) bikes in the boot. And the stereo's pretty good. And once you've tried heated seats...

And there's pluses and minuses... Like, my Focus got stranded once because of a fault with the crank sensor. It didn't actually stop working, it just was slightly out of spec and so triggered a fault and cut out the engine. So that's annoying. But my Mondeo has 180bhp and does 60mpg, stops fast (and in good control in the wet), and when it's feeling poorly it can tell me what's wrong using OBD. All good things.

Still haven't a clue what the little lights in the wingmirrors are for though.

I prefer a basic life 🙂 i much prefer to keep things simple. I ride a relatively basic hardtail bike although it is titanium with bouncy forks and 1x10/disc brakes etc. I drive a relatively basic car compared to modern stuff, a 28yr old golf gti that's tuned to the 9th degree but has keep fit windy up windows, comfortable leather interior, good heater, bit thirsty, very simple to repair but nothing ever goes wrong with it anyway so that's irrelevant, it does have power steering that i fitted though as it was impossible to turn such a small wheel with 195 tyres when parking.

Simples.......it the way of the future for sure 😀

i asked this a while back and was told - rose tinted glasses etc .....

I distinctly remember my old 1995 base model diesel fiesta needing stupidly little work , no sensors went wrong ever.

the things that did go wrong were fixable with a hammer - oh and the rust

but then its had done 250k by the time i was finished.

would never pass emissions nowawdays and thats where all the sensors come in to play.

#ITs those sensors that are expensive to work on.

[url= http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=26533 ]Sandero[/url]

Any use? ^

dacia do look promising

the logan is the one i want though - once they bring that over ill go for a test drive 😀

Duster or Sandero.

Or for the win....

Panda

My wife has base model i10 Hyundai. Wind up windows. Not even intermittent wipers. It's like driving in 1972 only reliable. Small though...

Ahh..memories of the old Fiat Panda.

You are my father and I claim my £5!

As everyone heads in the 'all singing all dancing' direction the manual option becomes 'special' and so more expensive, due to volumes. Do you want central locking or to pay £100 more for the manual option etc. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Would a Landrover Defender (or Santana equivalent) tick the box?

But you do run discs on your bike, don't you? Not all 'progress' is bad. ABS, that's saved a load of lives, along with airbags and the like.

And tbh the thing that kills old cars isn't technology but the cost of labour to fix whatever it is that's gone wrong.

Would a Landrover Defender (or Santana equivalent) tick the box?

I LOVE basic however I don't love the old era of crazy crash test/survivability of knees etc.

Would a Landrover Defender (or Santana equivalent) tick the box?

no because they are no longer simple

the old ones are largely worn out - finding a good one is hard work !

So why does no mainstream manufacturer make a baisc 'normal' car?

Blame capitalism. Blame Thatcherism. Blame shareholder-owned companies under huge pressure to show year on year growth. Blame quasi innovation designed to persuade people that their current vehicle needs upgrading now with added baubles and technology...

I'd rather manufacturers produced solid, basic cars with fewer fripperies, bombproof engineering and galvanised body panels and proper underseal so they don't rot at the first sign of water. But guess what, if you produce reliable, durable vehicles, people don't replace them as often, you sell fewer cars, your share price falls and before long your employees are looking for a new job - Saab anyone?

Said the man with the 1990 Mk2 Golf... 😉

Have a look at the old shaped Ford KA. The basic model is just that, no AC, no electric windows, rubber bumpers, no unwanted stuff. It does have power steering though and I think ABS.

I had one that did 150k and then got sold, it looked a bit scruffy but it worked. Oh, and it is brilliant in the snow, really, really good fun.

Would a Landrover Defender (or Santana equivalent) tick the box?

Even the Defender has fallen victim to new legislation (or market forces), meaning that it's a lot more complicated than it used to be. A [url= http://www.suzuki.co.uk/cars/cars/new/jimny/jimny ]Suzuki Jimny[/url] is much more like it. Once you get past the hairdresser looks, it's essentially a 2/3 scale Defender - ladder chassis, beam axles, et cetera.

Cheap to buy, simple to maintain, reliable and it'll still get you to work during the inevitable snow/floods/next sale. Cons; they're not big enough to use as family transport, and they're thirstier than any 1.3 engine has the right to be.

id love a jimny for offroading - shame id have to centre mount the seat - anyone that says a defender has no shoulder room wants to try a jimny .... forget taking a passenger unless you have no shoulders.

was more room in an old mini !

Weird this- there are ALOT of Aygo's/C1's on the roads dating back to 2005.

How many of them are battered?

Northwind - Member

Still haven't a clue what the little lights in the wingmirrors are for though.

They light up the ground area around the doors, so's at night you can see & avoid the dog toffee that you would have normally stepped in & squidged all over your cars carpet.

anyone that says a defender has no shoulder room wants to try a jimny

It's all part of the "Modular Concept" - No shoulder room? Just take the top half of the door off! 😆

tbh i have no issues with shoulder room in my ninety. (ps the door tops havnt come off a showroom stock landy since 1985)

So far we have:

Clio Campus
Jimny
Ignis
Panda

Sorry i10 is just too gay to be considered.

tbh i have no issues with shoulder room in my ninety. (ps the door tops havnt come off a showroom stock landy since 1985)

I stand corrected on this one.

In my defense, all of my Landrover exposure is in Military ones, which differ from the showroom models in a few areas (series doors being a notable example).

ill put my partner van forward its a base model with no frills - no central locking , no electric windows , no cd player no turbo and a basic injection system.

Does me great .

although it has 2 stage intermittant wiper

moving away from series doors was a big mistake imo anyway duffer. - much more knee space in a series door 90 LR as lack of door card.

Good call on Partner/Berlingo etc.

Gary_C - Member

They light up the ground area around the doors, so's at night you can see & avoid the dog toffee that you would have normally stepped in & squidged all over your cars carpet.

In theory... In practice, they're door mounted so when you open the door, they're lighting up a bit of ground I can't see. Ah progress.

Surely it would cost more to put a low volume low spec car into production.

new line for wind down windows, new line for non ABS brakes

Fact is, there would be no customer demand either (appart from you), especially as prices would increase across the range.

I think there is a middle way. Lots of modern innovation is great - cars that do lots of miles to the gallon with less emissions, that stop quickly in a straight line and look after the human contents in a crash are all good things. Then there's the nice to haves - electric windows and the like - they are nice to have sometimes! I've had more glitches with dodgy manual windows than I have with modern electric windows.

What I want is a car that has enough nice to haves that you are not slumming it but designed and built, very very well with servicing, and easy component replacement as much a priority as comfort and gucci features. I want a car that has a chassis designed to last decades but could be upgraded over time as technology improves or bits wear out. Having to bin whole cars because it just isn't economically viable to repair a single component is just daft environmentally. A bit like owning a house - you don't bin the whole house because the kitchen needs replacing. Imagine a car for life in a trigger's broom kind of way.

Having to bin wholes cars

Not as bad as your computers spellcheck failing 😯 😆

what alot of it boils down to though is not the part but the labour in the uk.

Im currently in turkmenistan - they think nothing of replacing clutches , gear boxes , engines - even on big newish beemers .

nothing too big for them. was the same in ukraine - you see ANCIENT cars still on the road.

For new cars the UK is seen as a premium market so the really basic models of a lot of cars don't reach these shores.

With the exception of things like power windows, which generally have to be included due to production considerations you can buy some really basic version of cars like Clio's Astra's Polo's and the like

Fiat Cinquicento

You get things like Chevettes and (old style) Beetles too which were still in production in the 90's in other countries, but no one over here would have bought them so they stopped importing them. Also Lada Riva's. There is a safety/environmental aspect to it but at the end of the day no-one would have bought them. Supply and demand init.

Poverty spec cars do exist.

My parents have a Fiat Punto 1.2 petrol (so no diesel bits to go wrong), no AC, the only button on the dash is one to turn the power steering upto max for parking and the hazzard lights.

IIRC they even had to specify a CD player over tape!

IMO it's pointelss though. Cars are reliable now, and despite the perception of electrical failures being the norm, most cars still die of either rust (not much you can do apart from buy DMC) or major mechanicals like head gasket, cam belts, turbos, etc or just worn out, cam belt changes cost more than most bangers these days or suspension bushings are usualy lifetime components so replacement means replacing the arms/uprights which gets expensive.

would an old fashioned suck/sqeeze/bang/fart engine even pass the current type approval process?

Personally, I think the real scandal is in the fact that they are allowed to design cars which are so difficult to carry out minor repairs on - headlight bulbs which can't be changed by the roadside for example!

The modern stuff doesn't go wrong as much as you'd think. Electric windows go wrong sometimes, but manual ones did too. They're basically the same mechanism just one has a motor.

Just look at how many old cars are being sold for a few hundred quid, with all their gizmos still working.

You DO however want decent safety systems though. Airbags are worth it, so is ABS. Yes, ABS can go wrong but it's a very good system. And the safety cage is way better on modern cars.

The base model Corsa is great, not nearly as pretentious as most cutesy small cars and no pointless toys either

An old LANDY or 300tdi disco no electric bits to louse up n windows that are manual , if all else fails bump start or good old starting handle, still got a series 11 starting handle uder my bed.(home security)

How about a Seat Mii S? No Air Con, Wind Up windows and steel wheels? £7900 before any discount.

id like to see you start a 300tdi with a cranking handle.

my 1990 v8 disco1 has working electric windows - i find it hard to believe that a 300tdi went backwards to winders.

not to mention the amount of welding a disco needs over the years to keep the body attached to the chassis.

agree the old series and ninety/110/130 and the early pre 300tdi defenders meet the criteria well

but lets be serious- you could drive down the motorway in a dacia sandero - a series 2 with a 2.25 diesel would be chronic to drive on the motorway.

This Niva is my current motor of choice, basically a 4x4 mini on big wheels!

You dont get much simpler!

[img] [/img]

And still in production, however im not sure about UK availability

NIva's were discontinued in the uk few years back now along with all the other lada's ,shame because good solid tanks they were too.

An old LANDY or 300tdi disco no electric bits to louse up n windows that are manual

[landy nerd] Actually discos have leccy windows, and 300tdi's have plenty electrics to go wrong (not as bad as a TD5 mind!) [/landy nerd]

EDIT: beaten to it by trail_rat, d'oh!

Despite being deemed fancy by the OP, I would say that ABS is one thing I would like to keep on a basic car. All other things are a bit pointless

nivas are back out in uk.

but to all those saying nivas have you driven one ?

ive driven a ukrainian one round our yard.......i wouldnt go any further with it holy hell, you think a landy is vague.

underpowered too

The Niva here is waaay overpriced. I thought theyd be c7k new when rereleased so when I read 12k+ I thought whhooa

Citroen Berlingo although I couldn't bring myself to buy one! I did look and at first my kids thought it was great,, my tall 9 year old could even stand up in the back!

They are huge inside with a massive boot and if you buy the base model no aircon or such frills.

I have always fancied the Merc G wagon, still think they fit this category, - not the modern version, but something like a mid 90's 3.0 diesel for around 10grand, should go round the clock a few times with not major surgery- and the "appearance" IMHO is timeless- but (dare I say it) better built than a land product.

its all about economics....its much cheaper to install only leccy windows on a production line, than having to do different things... so a more basic car will cost equivelant or more than a better specced one..

Only case for this is somwhere like china/india where they are all basic....but then to get them to europe they have to pass all sorts of tests, emissions, safety etc... so the cars will be more expensive....

How about this for basic?
[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251175245307?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 ]fleaby Golf[/url]

For comparison, anyone care to count the sensors that keep the engine running on my A2 FSI:

VOLKSPAGE.NET "http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_253.pdf"

Car currently off road due to injector problems. Main problem is that you have to half remove the engine to get to the injectors!
Lovely car when it works though, much better than the N reg Fester that the garage have lent me.

How about one of these? always fancied one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Citi_Golf

All Golfs used to be basic, I had an original GTI other than the injection engine it had nothing, was a 1.6 with 4 speed.... It still broke & rusted pretty well.

Anything Fiat gets my vote for just the right amount of basic, just the right amount of price.

Yes but the MK1 was in production in South Africa until 2011, hence the link 🙂 RHD too.

I don't understand your post. There has been a massive increase in the number of simple small cars available, just the type you are referring to.

I can't stand basic cars and use the majority of the features on mine on a daily basis....

Climate control - speaks for itself
Leather seats - wipe clean, as I do get rather mucky
Heated seats - lovely on a cold morning
Electric sunroof - I just like them
Electric seats - with normal ones I tend to find the best position and avoid moving from that. With leccy ones, its easy making minor adjustments on long journeys to keep comfy
Power fold mirrors - there are a lot of tight passing areas on site, so ideal.
Heated mirrors - great on a damp or frosty morning
Cruise control - nice on long motorway journeys
Built in sat nav - saved me an hour and a half last Friday diverting me round an accident on the M5
Reversing camera and sensors - it can be a bugger parking a 5.5mtr long truck
6 different media sources - Obviously radio, DVD, CD, USB in, Bluetooth in, music hard drive - well, why not?
Bluetooth phone connection - connects and updates every time you get in and has all your contacts and calls on screen, so no need to look at actual phone whilst driving
Voice control & steering wheel controls - keeps your eyes on the road
4wd, abs, traction control, esp, emergency brake assist - it weighs 2.5t and I've never driven a vehicle that stops as quick

Last poster but direction changes are sooooo good in a car that weighs c790kg.

Are you Carworlds All The Gear No Idea..... 😉

Climate control - speaks for itself
Leather seats - wipe clean, as I do get rather mucky
Heated seats - lovely on a cold morning
Electric sunroof - I just like them
Electric seats - with normal ones I tend to find the best position and avoid moving from that. With leccy ones, its easy making minor adjustments on long journeys to keep comfy
Power fold mirrors - there are a lot of tight passing areas on site, so ideal.
Heated mirrors - great on a damp or frosty morning
Cruise control - nice on long motorway journeys
Built in sat nav - saved me an hour and a half last Friday diverting me round an accident on the M5
Reversing camera and sensors - it can be a bugger parking a 5.5mtr long truck
6 different media sources - Obviously radio, DVD, CD, USB in, Bluetooth in, music hard drive - well, why not?
Bluetooth phone connection - connects and updates every time you get in and has all your contacts and calls on screen, so no need to look at actual phone whilst driving
Voice control & steering wheel controls - keeps your eyes on the road
4wd, abs, traction control, esp, emergency brake assist - it weighs 2.5t and I've never driven a vehicle that stops as quick

Citroen 2cv plenty of good beetles mate of mine picked up a mint 2ltr cortina, the paintwork on the underside is better than most cars paint finishes. If you want basic old is best.
But I understand what you are saying, no modern basics being made. Must be the culture of more extras mean better car.
I'd be interested in a "Happy Shopper/Valco no nonsense" car.

Just to show that I practice what I preach, in reply to STR's list above.
.
I have, and like:
Intermittant wipers
Heater
Night heater 🙂 (the only optional extra fitted)
Radio/CD player with 2 speakers
2 12V sockets
Plug-in SatNav (when that breaks it's not a £1000 job to rebuild the dashboard like a with built-in one)
An airbag
.
I have and don't like/need:
ABS
Remote central locking.
Actually any central locking
Digital milometer (which doesn't work any more)
.
Honestly, that is my complete list of gadgets. 2004 Transit T300.
.
I don't have but would like:
Heated windscreen
Sunroof, manual obviously. (just makes it look brighter inside. We do not need aircon in the UK!)
.
.
Brillient example of the madness is those hopeless little C1/107/Aygo things. They are available with aircon and blueteeth and electric windows but not with a temperature guage! How can people drive a car with no temperature gauge? Take off the fripperies and leave the useful stuff.

@ hora - 23 years driving all sorts of nails hopefully gives me some idea. My current drive probably doesn't handle changes of direction very well, but I've read that esp handles that very well in emergencies. Despite all the other gadgets, my truck would probably still weigh over 2 tonne without them - its reassuring to know it stops well.

Best handling car I've had was a fiesta supersport - great car, W reg and absolutely no frills (did have a sunroof though) I'd have one again as a project (fetch stupid money now), but not as a daily drive.

Nissan pixo's are very basic OTR from c.£7k

Ooh, add to the current vehicles list...

Rain sensing wipers - might sound lazy, but beats having to flick the stick up every few seconds in light drizzle and even alters the speed depending how hard its raining.

And finally a totally pointless one - automatic headlights. Dont really get the point of these, but use them cos they're there.

Fiesta sport?

Puma 1.7. 11months romance. I miss you.

We do not need aircon in the UK!

I was thoroughly fed up with trying to find the perfect combination of front and back windows open certain amounts to try and still hear the stereo and not die of heat exhaustion. For which of course you need electric windows to adjust whilst driving. Sick of arriving with ringing in my ears and a Sam Browne belt of sweat marks on my tshirt.

Aircon is brilliant, even in this country.

How can people drive a car with no temperature gauge?

Why do you need to drive with one? You only need to know when it's overheating, there's a warning light for that. Prius doesn't have one, I do not miss it. The Passat has one and it stays parked on 90 all the time.

Bluetooth hands free built in is also great, especially if you drive for work. Someone calls you - you can talk to them. Simple and brilliant.

I have a Pug 306 rally, does that make the list? It's a gti-6 stripped of everything electrical or unnecessary and is a reputed 65kg lighter than a gti6 with much less to go wrong. Overall weight is circa 1100kg, with 170bhp to punt it along, even made EVO's list of top 100 drivers cars......

murf - Member
I have a Pug 306 rally, does that make the list?