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Bad actors stoking hate again (Southport Stabbings)

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Probably taken wildly out of context, or out of date, or in a different country, or just fake, etc etc...

Is anyone here saying there are no Muslims or [insert other forriners here] who are wrong'uns? No.

Is anyone here saying they are representative of all Muslims? No.

Maybe there are some videos of tooled up Muslims looking for trouble, who knows. This is no reason for... well, anything, really, except action against those individuals.

I can show you a lot more videos of white British folk causing trouble!

As for the police officer, already explained, see Scapegoats post on page 22 of this thread.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 12:10 pm
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@doomanic, even if some of those pictures turned out to be true, they have a right to self defense if a gang of angry racist thugs (also with weapons) is planning to attack them at their place of worship, and the police can't control the situation.

A few people on this thread have been warning about how much this could escalate if the rioters start attacking places with large populations of young non-white men.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 12:18 pm
jameso and jameso reacted
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Apparently the silent majority are fed up of champagne socialists?

This on Facebook from a well off elderly relative living in a leafy bit of Hampshire, when I asked what the sudden right wing posts were about.

I thought we’d just had an election?

They seem quite noisy and even have a comedy news channel.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 12:23 pm
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There's a lot of rumours that there will be a far-right protest in Sheffield this afternoon, and because of this a number of events are being cancelled, and some businesses closing for the afternoon.

Could this just be a rumour that results in disruption, i.e. the protests don't happen, but the impact on the city is big, causes fear and uncertainty about other events?

Obviously no protest taking place would be great, but putting around false rumours could be a clever twist to their tactics.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 12:29 pm
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It does good to remind yourself occasionally that the average reading age in the UK is that of a nine year old. Articles in The Guardian are generally pitched at about fourteen and The Sun about eight

Huge swathes of the population that are not literate enough to critically analysis the information that they're given or exposed to. If you want an answer to the likes of the Farages or Robinsons of the world it is education.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 12:38 pm
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Obviously no protest taking place would be great, but putting around false rumours could be a clever twist to their tactics.

I'm not sure they're that clever.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 12:39 pm
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If you want an answer to the likes of the Farages or Robinsons of the world it is education

Agree, might take a while though and you know, we haven't got enough money to do anything about it.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 12:51 pm
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If you want an answer to the likes of the Farages or Robinsons of the world it is education.

I think this is the most important and insightful thing said on this thread so far.

Education is the key to combatting ignorance which leads to fear and hatred. That's obvious. Yet education in the UK has been systematically eroded and degraded for decades now. There is virtually no provision left for local adult education, certainly nothing that is free to access for those from economically deprived circumstances. And whilst some might argue that all kids get primary and secondary education, the reality is that there is massive disparity between areas and regions, even within the same boroughs. A high performing school in a wealthier area is going to be far more successful at churning out good students than a poor school in a poor area. Statistics prove this fact. There will be a direct correlation in the areas most affected by rioting to poor educational attainment and resources. The semi-privatisation of secondary schools via the 'academy' system sees poorer areas neglected yet further. Add in Ofsted and the picture gets even worse. What is really needed, is a Uk-wide program of weighted resource allocation, with poorer areas getting proportionally more per pupil, to address the imbalance, until we are at a point where there is genuine equality of education and opportunity across the board. I can't see that happening, sadly.

Blair's cry of 'Education Education Education' simply heralded the monetising of the university system, which has impacted on those from poorer backgrounds.

This in turn has impacted on what courses people choose; with huge debts facing them, students are choosing paths with greater economic benefits promised at the end. So we are now seeing a sharp decline in fields such as Arts, Languages and Philosophy. All of which are as important to society as any other. We need teachers, artists, thinkers as much as we need engineers and scientists.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 12:59 pm
hightensionline, supernova, jameso and 9 people reacted
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If you want an answer to the likes of the Farages or Robinsons of the world it is education.

.. and travel, beyond package holiday destinations that have Irish bars and offers on pitchers.

We need teachers, artists, thinkers as much as we need engineers and scientists.

100%. The way the Tories treated culture and the arts was standard fascist policy.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 1:08 pm
supernova, zomg, kelvin and 3 people reacted
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There’s a lot of rumours that there will be a far-right protest in Sheffield this afternoon, and because of this a number of events are being cancelled, and some businesses closing for the afternoon.

Could this just be a rumour that results in disruption, i.e. the protests don’t happen, but the impact on the city is big, causes fear and uncertainty about other events?

Obviously no protest taking place would be great, but putting around false rumours could be a clever twist to their tactics.

There's definitely something going on. I've heard lots of chatter through the official security channels at work and from mates who are planning to be part of the resistance. I've got a list of possible times and locations and we've seen people in masks scouting around on bikes at 1-2am in places which are not usual scrote hotspots.

We've got lots of premises closed and people working from home. I'm stuck in the office so I can't tell you what's actually happening.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 1:11 pm
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including one where it’s claimed that a community support officer is telling them to hide the weapons in a Mosque.

I heard that it was a senior police officer. And what he was actually saying was basically "if you are thinking of going on a counter demonstration tooled up don't. So if you have any weapons on you leave them at the mosque before setting off on your counter demo"


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 1:18 pm
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Karma

#lifecomesatyouquickly #effaboutandfindout

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-councillors-wife-arrested-over-33410117


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 1:26 pm
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I’m not sure they’re that clever.

But the folk manipulating them are.

And us.

Remember it goes both ways, why have one rabble when you can have two with only marginally more effort?

Divide and conquer. As long as you only look at it through as lens of them and us then it's easy to other them the way they do. Scummy shits for sure and acting from completely different motivations but still "us". That these people have ended up where they are is a failing on everyone.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 1:29 pm
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If you want an answer to the likes of the Farages or Robinsons of the world it is education.

Yes. But what do you do if the scrotes don't turn up because they're 3rd/4th generation scrotes and none of their forebears never went to school either?


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 1:30 pm
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Social media is the short term fix, the poverty and lack of opportunity are the longer term solution. Will take two generations. Invest in education, housing, social support now, save on crime, benefits, social services in 20-30 years time.

Someone more cynical might suggest that compulsory contraception and incentivised sterilisation attached to benefits payouts would sort that problem out a lot quicker.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 1:42 pm
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It is rather satisfying just how many of these "hard" men who have been caught are being described as 'visibly upset' or 'sobbing' in the description of their being found guilty in court


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:05 pm
 DrJ
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So three years for punching a cop but 5 years for peacefully blocking a road   Right.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:06 pm
hightensionline, susepic, ernielynch and 37 people reacted
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There's a lot of posts above referring to education , schools were and are obviously vital but they are not the only source. Community centres , youth clubs, libraries etc were all sources of informal education,  family was perhaps the main source of informal education, now weakened by low pay ,poor job security ,etc.  There's no quick fix  for this


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:07 pm
geeh, squirrelking, MoreCashThanDash and 7 people reacted
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Someone more cynical might suggest that compulsory contraception and incentivised sterilisation attached to benefits payouts would sort that problem out a lot quicker.

And then contribute to the upcoming demographic problem of our collapsing birth rate too.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:08 pm
soobalias, Riksbar, Riksbar and 1 people reacted
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The news if full of people being sent down, one crying for his mum (29 yr old) as he was walking out of the court room and into remand.

Oh dear.

And rioting tonight knows what cost they might be paying so zero sympathy.

My lad has been told he might be called up tonight to go onto crowd control, it'll be his first time. I can't lie, I'm a little worried.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:09 pm
supernova, dukeduvet, Keando and 3 people reacted
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It is rather satisfying just how many of these “hard” men who have been caught are being described as ‘visibly upset’ or ‘sobbing’ in the description of their being found guilty in court

Isn't it just?

They've probably been louts and local bullies for a long time in any case, so their removal from communities is likely to benefit everyone there, if only for a couple of years. The number of previous arrests and convictions will bear testament to that.

Leanne Hodgson doesn't seem to have many fans in her local area.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:10 pm
supernova and supernova reacted
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Someone more cynical might suggest that compulsory contraception and incentivised sterilisation attached to benefits payouts would sort that problem out a lot quicker.

Aye of course poor people are the root of the problem


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:11 pm
blokeuptheroad, jameso, Riksbar and 3 people reacted
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Yes. But what do you do if the scrotes don’t turn up because they’re 3rd/4th generation scrotes and none of their forebears never went to school either?

Well that's the big question isn't it? How do you get people to buy back into a society they been left out of, one way or another? If we could answer that the problem would have been sorted decades ago.

Education doesn't begin and end at school either. How about opening job centres back up but as part of a community hub? Job centre/community centre/library? Rather than shutting these people out we give them the opportunity to come back in.

Someone more cynical might suggest that compulsory contraception and incentivised sterilisation attached to benefits payouts would sort that problem out a lot quicker.

Ah yes, with careful eugenics we can just be rid of the untermensch within a couple of generations.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:19 pm
gallowayboy, gordimhor, zomg and 5 people reacted
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Karma

#lifecomesatyouquickly #effaboutandfindout

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-councillors-wife-arrested-over-33410117/blockquote >
It will be interesting to follow this and see if a two tier system of enforcement is actually in place. Though not the ethnic one the current agent provocateurs are referring to.

Someone facing jail for calling for immigrant hotels to be smashed up, let alone burned down with the residents still inside.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:20 pm
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The amount of division caused by all this is impressive. Something to draw in almost everyone.

Rioters vs public

Rioters vs protestors with same cause

Rioters vs counter protestors

Rioters vs rioters of different colour

Any of the above vs the police

Uninvolved public vs the police

Any of the above vs politicians/gov

Anyone supporting/defending any of the above


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:22 pm
soobalias and soobalias reacted
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The amount of division caused by all this is impressive. Something to draw in almost everyone.

Indeed, that was the gist of my previous point.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:26 pm
 zomg
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So three years for punching a cop but 5 years for peacefully blocking a road   Right.

That’s their two tiers right there, the ****s.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:28 pm
supernova, mrlebowski, twistedpencil and 3 people reacted
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 zomg
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If we’re sterilising anyone I’d suggest it would be most productive that it be the rich; if the alternative is having nobody to pass their privilege on to they might find they have a stake in a more equitable society. 😉


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:33 pm
supernova, ayjaydoubleyou, gordimhor and 11 people reacted
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Quite a lot of folk heading home from the office early now, in case of trouble later, and most of my colleagues from non-white backgrounds worked from home today


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:40 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
 dazh
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They’ve probably been louts and local bullies for a long time in any case

Yeah but there will also be many who went along thinking it'd be a bit of a laugh, an opportunity get pissed with their mates and have a bit of a ruck. Peer pressure and herd mentality are very powerful emotions and lots of these guys will now be massively regretting it. I doubt many of them really understood the seriousness of what they were getting into.  Not that I'm defending them, they deserve everything they get, but it will also destroy a lot of lives. Jobs lost and families cast into poverty, futures destroyed, kids left without dads etc. I don't see any good coming from it, and it'll probably make the problem worse a few years down the line.

Quite a lot of folk heading home from the office early now

Yeah same here, an email has gone round telling people in the Manchester and Sheffield offices to go home early if they want. Can't help but think it's a bit of a hysterical knee jerk reaction. At the end of the day these 'protests' have only had a few hundred people on them so will be very easy to avoid. Doesn't really send a great message either, allowing a city to shut down because of the actions of a few idiots.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:45 pm
supernova, sirromj, MoreCashThanDash and 3 people reacted
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So three years for punching a cop but 5 years for peacefully blocking a road   Right.

Not a massive amount of critical thinking going on in posts like this, and folks wonder at why discourse as got to a point where Facebook one liners are effective at encouraging infantile responses to complex issues like immigration to the badly educated.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:49 pm
blokeuptheroad, z1ppy, z1ppy and 1 people reacted
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Education doesn’t begin and end at school either. How about opening job centres back up but as part of a community hub?

A lot of kids just need someone to look up to who isn't an authority figure. If your parents are pretty much lost causes and all you have in your community as an example of what it means to be a man or an influential grown-up is the hardest and mouthiest bloke around you're on the wrong path to begin with.

I wonder if Islamic communities here do this kind of leadership and mentoring well or more commonly, at least compared than the typical British community where the church doesn't play a part. Outside of that the options are sport/activity and creative spaces.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:49 pm
 kilo
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there will also be many who went along thinking it’d be a bit of a laugh, an opportunity get pissed with their mates and have a bit of a ruck

Pretty much the definition of a lout then.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:50 pm
supernova, timidwheeler, timidwheeler and 1 people reacted
 dazh
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Not a massive amount of critical thinking going on in posts like this

You think causing a bit of traffic disruption is worse than setting fire to hotels, burning out cars, terrorising people in their homes and beating up police officers and black/asian people?

Pretty much the definition of a lout then.

Absolutely, but being a drunken idiot doesn't normally get you 3 years inside. I don't have any sympathy for them, but I do for their kids and families who will suffer from their idiocy.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:53 pm
sirromj, mrlebowski, sirromj and 1 people reacted
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Not that I’m defending them, they deserve everything they get, but it will also destroy a lot of lives. Jobs lost and families cast into poverty, futures destroyed, kids left without dads etc. I don’t see any good coming from it, and it’ll probably make the problem worse a few years down the line.

Same as so many other poor decisions people make. I think it's interesting how the new Prisons Minister would approach this. Yes you're jailing people but how to avoid that exacerbating the general issue long term? IE if you were interviewing someone and this was on their record .. It's all in the lessons and the attitude from there on. Obvs there's levels of 'mistake' but in this area, people can't (and I think won't) be made to pay for one mistake for the rest of their lives. They can certainly turn that mistake into something they compound negatively themselves though. It's on them to decide.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 2:56 pm
robbo1234biking, kelvin, kelvin and 1 people reacted
 dazh
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IE if you were interviewing someone and this was on their record .. It’s all in the lessons and the attitude from there on. Obvs there’s levels of ‘mistake’ but in this area, people can’t (and I think won’t) be made to pay for one mistake for the rest of their lives.

Think you're mistaken here. The vast majority of employers won't touch ex-convicts with a barge pole, especially for violent convictions. One of my mates was sent down 20 years ago for various direct action activities and he's struggled to find work ever since. This stuff stays with you for life.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 3:00 pm
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One of the characters from my village - disappointed the sentences were suspended and that the charges with the racist aspect weren't pursued, given what the protest was for.

BBC News - Woman sentenced after city centre protest
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgjv45pwv9no


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 3:14 pm
 zomg
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Outside of that the options are sport/activity and creative spaces.

I feel like there’s precious little access to sport here: instead of funding facilities and resources in the communities where it could make a real difference the money seems to instead go into getting Olympic medals largely with the privately-educated. Creative spaces appear to have been terribly underfunded too.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 3:15 pm
sirromj and sirromj reacted
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My granddaughter had just been  sent home from work in Boro as police have advised them to close (GP surgery) due to rioting in a nearby road.

Bloody morons, next they'll be wondering why they can't get their regular parmos, kebabs and curries or a taxi. I hope there's a lot of arrests and heavy sentences for the nonsensical violence.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 3:17 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
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money seems to instead go into getting Olympic medals largely with the privately-educated.

Risks thread diversion, but evidence for this regards the privately educated bit?

Absolutely agreeing with the wider point though, having seen the benefits of community groups to engage and develop young people away from a formal educational setting.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 3:22 pm
 kilo
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Absolutely, but being a drunken idiot doesn’t normally get you 3 years inside

Tbf it can do when you commit violent offences when you were pissed and went looking for a ruck. These people are the arseholes who want to jump on someone with their mates so they don’t get a shoeing, or punch people from behind outside a nightclub, they know exactly what they are getting into when they choose to attend a demo against small boats or to protect our children - racist thuggery.

As to sympathy for their kids and families, sympathy that they are a victim of someone else being a tool but not much more.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 3:22 pm
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Going back to education.... I used to work as a KS1 primary school teacher in some less well off areas. I had kids who didn't have pens, pencils or paper at home, not even colouring books. I also had to do extra reading in breaks and lunch as kids were even been encouraged to read the minimal amount of reading with their parents they had to do. The parents called the TV guide a book, and literally didn't have any real books in the home . Also relying on breakfast clubs and school dinners for their food.  Obviously some were great kids and tried very hard, but with no support or home role models how they did down the road I have no idea.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 3:24 pm
blokeuptheroad, pondo, zomg and 13 people reacted
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Absolutely, but being a drunken idiot doesn’t normally get you 3 years inside.

If you punch a copper then I reckon it does.


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 3:27 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
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One of my mates was sent down 20 years ago for various direct action activities

I'm guessing that wasn't just for holding a "meat is murder" placard outside MacDonalds?


 
Posted : 07/08/2024 3:28 pm
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