That's the point I made two or three days ago - this was how it was always going to turn out.
How many arabs has the US killed so far (with our help) in retaliation for the 2000-odd dead in New York?
I bet the Israelis have a way to go to beat that.
5thElefant... on the same ratio the US would have had to have killed about 275,000...
Am not sure even they have managed that yet!
Ah yes, [url= http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ ]www.iraqbodycount.org[/url] has it at around 100,000. Poor effort.
To be brutally honest, I actually don't care that much. Frankly I'm much more concerned about Russia cutting my gas supply off.
Anyway back to ruling the world..... All hills will now be one way.. Down only, Ileagal drugs will be legalised and available on the NHS at prescription charge levels, dentistry will be back under the umbrella of the NHS, and check ups will be free. Dentists will only nominally be paid for removal of diseased teeth. Packaging materials will be heavily taxed, those deemed unnecessary for any practical reason by double. Products which are produced with low longevity/high obselescence will likewise be heavily taxed. Sport and diet will receive more attention on the school curriculum and Airline tickets will be sold on the basis of gross passenger weight including luggage. Anyone weighing more that average with their luggage will have to buy an additional seat so their lard doesn't encroach into mine personal zone!
Just wait for tomorrow !!!!
Zokes : Couldn't agree more. When would be good for a reunion? Re the return of G, evilzone pi$$ed me off more than the mods on here. Only way to show solidarity IMHO.
Products which are produced with low longevity/high obselescence will likewise be heavily taxed
So bike parts then? 😡
Zokes : Couldn't agree more. When would be good for a reunion? Re the return of G, evilzone pi$$ed me off more than the mods on here. Only way to show solidarity IMHO.
Well, Feb is looking very busy as the missus graduates, and I'll probably have my viva around then. Then (hopefully) I'll be Dr Zokes..... End of March I'm at a conf in Reading, and I'm sure I have another in Edinburgh at some point (a good excuse to go MTBing at GT with fuel paid for 😀 )
Apart from that, seeing as I'm no longer a student, I just need to do the usual boring thing of complaining how much work I have to do, then ignoring it and taking leave. I reckon we should wait until night time temperatures are above -10 in Wales though!
Hamas has scored their own goal here with their daily rocket firing. I think they must be going ape shite?
Now, they are cowering behind their human shields. Good tactic that with all the world media dedicating their air time to highlight the death and unfortunate circumstances of Hamas.
Oh look Annie Lennox, George Galloway, some politicians etc are there too to increase their own profiles. I think they are trying to outdo Bono the god.
Zokes or future Dr Zokes,
Are you planning an academic career? What PhD are you doing?
🙂
It seems to have ended up that way. PhD was in organic waste management and land remediation. I'm currently on a 1-year PostDoc contract investigating nitrogen in upland soils, so all environmental sciency really. The major plus side of my job is being able to go walking and off-road land rover driving, and get paid for it! 😀
I am actually looking for fellowships as I type, although as you can see, I'm not getting that far....
zokes,
Organic waste management? Yes, tonnes of shite around nowadays. Like the outdoor fun though. You should justify you work by riding there.
Oh ya ... welcome to the academic world of fixed term contract where you have to re-apply for your own job after a while.
🙂
To be brutally honest, I actually don't care that much
We know, Adam.
Well, still in student mode, the idea of saving my new-found wealth was so foreign, I went out and bought not one, but two new bikes, and spent money converting the old XC machine to a commuter, so when (as discussed above), it's not -10 and the roads are less of a skating rink. This especially holds true now my brain is sort of working out a year isn't that long, and perhaps I may need some money at the end, so I'd better get some use out of the bikes, seeing as I now have no savings again.... I have also considered sampling on the MTB, but mud weighs too much, unfortunately.
The idea of applying for your own job again is better than what seems to be happening at the moment, whreby if Gordon keeps giving all our money to the banks, he won't have any left for NERC et al., so there won't BE a job 🙁
I assume you're also in academia somewhere then?
G: To be brutally honest, I actually don't care that muchRudeboy: We know, Adam.
Wrong, try again.....
Really? Well, I apologise, in that case. Just had a whiff of selfish nastiness. My mistake.
Personally, I'm more concerned with the needless deaths of innocent people, than my gas supply, as I can always burn something else to keep warm, or move to warmer climes.
But that's just me.
(Although I'm with you on the passenger + luggage gross weight thing!)
Zokes,
What is your budget for new toy? i.e. bike. I might want to sell my Mk 1 Cotic Soul 17.5". I pulled out of sale the last time because I was not sure. Anyway, if that is your cup of tea let me know.
Yes, I care but so long as I am watching TV.
Chewkw
No budget - already got the two new toys: a medium Mk2 Soul 😀 , and for the other end of riding, a Patriot 7+ 😀 😀
So I guess had I mentioned I wanted a soul a couple of months ago, you may have had a deal and saved me some cash! Never mind....
£15million for Jermaine Defoe? Blimey. Good bit of business for Portsmouth.
In fact, who needs a forum - this one thread will do.....
Aren't we in danger of missing the point here?
What's happened is that:
1. Egypt negotiated a ceasefire that held for 6 months.
2. Hamas referred to the ceasefire as a "Hudna" - the term for a cessation in Jihad often motivated by the need to restock weapons before continuing the conflict
3. During the ceasefire Israel claimed that Hamas were using a network of 400 tunnels to move around 175 tonnes of explosives and an unknown number of rockets (both claims denied by Hamas). They also claimed that Hamas were receiving weapons and training from Iran.
4. Hamas broke the ceasefire by firing several hundred rockets including Iranian produced Grad rockets. Many of these rockets have been fired from civilian positions - Israel claims that mosques, schools and hospitals have been used
5. Egypt has laid the blame for the conflict at the door of Hamas.
So, what do we do? What's the solution to a political group who will not acknowledge or entertain a two state solution? How does Israel protect itself against the new Grad rockets that put most of Israel's lands at risk - including a nuclear power station? How should Israel respond to a continuation of year upon year of rockets and suicide bombers? How do you negotiate with a group that legitimises suicide bombings by women and children on other women and children?
It's easy for us to sit back and have our own views, but in the midst of the suffering on both side, shouldn't we also reflect on how we would negotiate with Hamas - or whether we even could?
[i]Aren't we in danger of missing the point here?[/i]
Well you certainly seem to have comprehensively missed the point.
Hamas won a free and democratic election
Israel illegally witheld tax receipts
Israel imprisoned Hamas MP's
Their opponents, probably aided by Israel and the US, schemed a coup
Hamas pre-empted the coup and threw them out of Gaza
Israel closed the borders, imposing a state of siege and starvation, eliminating any chance of Gazans to earn a living
Israel, the US and the EU refused to talk to Hamas
Hamas agreed to a ceasefire including an agreement to open borders
Israel kept the borders closed
Israel attacked and killed Hamas members in Gaza
Hamas responded with some pretty ineffectual rockets
Israel invaded with massive and indiscriminate attacks on the Palestinian population.
Now - what should Hamas do?
Personally, I'm more concerned with the needless deaths of innocent people, than my gas supply, as I can always burn something else to keep warm, or move to warmer climes.
Why? It's not like you know them. They were going to die sooner or later.
Not having central heating, now [i][b]that[/b][/i] is a real problem.
G accomodation here next time your up mate! Can do most weekends if booked in advance. Or you can wait until Dr.Z gets his wings etc and stops screaming 'it's alright I'm a Doctor' in public places when any young lady looks faint 😀
5elephant - that's scarily how SFB replies.......... 🙄
Tank - I doubt it - young women look feint in public as a result of seeing me (and not in a good way 😉 ) so I doubt me pretending to be a real doctor would help! If we were to go gown to G's flatlands at some point, I can always pick you up on the way too! Unfortunately my little cottage may be a little small to squeeze you both in, but you'd be more than welcome to try.
And back to the real subject...
I'm going to have to turn Newsnight off before I swear any more at [s]that Israeli **** who is[/s] those Israeli [b]****s[/b] being interviewed
tankslapper - MemberThat Hamas are a bunch of murdering cowards who hide behind a civilian population is not in doubt
As far as I am concerned that is very much in doubt.
Rather than "murdering cowards who hide behind a civilian population", Hamas are indeed very brave civilians who have decided to stand up and fight the brutal Israeli regime.
Gaza is not a country it is a strip of land. Approx 25 miles long by between 4 and 7 miles wide (you could jog across it in a matter of minutes} Within it 1.5 million stateless Palestinian refugees have been crammed in.
They have no army, no navy, no air force and no air defences. Israel has imposed an unlawful blockade designed to starve, kill and break them. Nothing can go in or come out, including food and medicines. Israel is now and has been, bombarding it from land, sea and air.
Cowardly and murderous acts which it commits using the most advanced weaponry available in the world. And in the secure belief that the risks to themselves are practically non-existent.
However, in much the same way as some Jews in the Warsaw ghetto decided to engage in futile resistance against the might of the Nazi armies, Hamas has decided to die whilst fighting back.
Cowardly ? No. Futile ? Maybe.
But it should also be remembered that when Hezbollah first started resisting the murderous Israeli occupation of Lebanon, that too seemed totally futile. Who would have thought that after years of ignoring UN demands to unconditionally withdraw from all Lebanese territory (UN Security Council Resolution 425), Israel would be driven out by armed civilians ?
It wasn't the US or the UN itself, which forced Israel to comply with UN demands and finally brought peace to Lebanonn, but Hezbollah. The only armed organisation anywhere in the world to confront and defeat Israel.
And whilst on the subject of bravely resisting the cowardly and murderous government of Israel, the bravery of many Israelis should also not be forgotten.People like Mordechai Vanunu who told the world of Israel's Weapons of Mass Destruction, and paid such a heavy price. And all the young Israelis who would rather face jail than take part in the slaughter of Palestinians.
For a different angle, I strongly recommend this very short article which appeared in The Irish Times, a paper which I don't believe is particularly noted for being "pro-terrorist"
[url= http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1230/1230581467173.html ]Israel broke ceasefire by killing six[/url]
.
BTW, I have noticed a particular comment mentioned a couple of times on this thread along the lines of, "why didn't other countries take the Palestinians if they cared so much about them" to justify what Israel is doing.
I find that comment particularly offensive as it is identical to the one used by many pro-Nazi Germans to justify what they did to the Jews in WW2 i.e. : "why didn't other countries take the Jews if they cared so much about them".
Well said ernie lynch.
This thread represents, quite simply, EVERYTHING I hate about those with a sanctimonious attitude, a bleeding heart outlook and an ability to talk rather than do.
Remember the International Brigades? From a generation when people of conscience actually DID something rather than whimpered on public forums?
If you feel strongly about something then go help. If not, STFU.
If the English Army had killed 100 children there would be a massive outcry.
Funny that. No one dare go there too much for fear of being anti-semitic.
[i]From a generation when people of conscience actually DID something rather than whimpered on public forums?[/i]
Damn straight. I'm off to don a bomb belt and sit on a tube train. That'll show em.
Today's terrorist is tomorrow's iconic hero.
Check out Nelson Mandela.
Check out Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams.........
Precisely.
'We will never negotiate with terrorists'. Really?
The simple truth is that terrorism is the most direct way of achieving a political or social goal.
Terrorism works. Very effectively.
ro: "The simple truth is that terrorism is the most direct way of achieving a political or social goal. Terrorism works. Very effectively."
Of course it does when there is a will to kill indiscriminately. That is the goal isn't it? To frighten others into submission?
It is a battle of wits and endurance. They are effective as they slowly grinds you down and others let them because they have much more to loose than them.
Effective? In what sense? What sort of time scale are you talking about? One year? One generation? One century?
It is not effective but merely a way of life and the person who gives up first is the looser.
😯
[i]That is the goal isn't it? To frighten others into submission?[/i]
errr... yes. that's why it's call terror-ism
[i]Effective? In what sense?[/i]
in bringing about the change being promoted. apart from malaysia and kenya - and perhaps the basque nationalists - active members of most terrorist organizations over the last 50 or so years have gone on to become legitimate members of a 'government'. they have not paid for their crimes, not in a meaningful sense anyway.
hamas or their successors will bring about change, eventually. just as the jewish terrorists were successful in throwing out the brits.
like i said, terrorism works.
So - define "terrorist". In general it seems to mean "the other guy", and using the word "terrorist" only conveys your politcal affiliation without saying anything about the situation itself.
well, in the context under discussion, we have a palestinian group engaging in acts of indiscriminate rocket and small arms fire and the use of suicide bombers against military and civilian targets, and we have a israeli conventional army engaged in acts of indiscriminate tank, air-launched weapon and small arms fire against civilian and military targets.
both sides claim their fire to be 'targeted'. both are liars. both are using terrorist tactics.
apart from the fact that the israeli guys look a lot neater and have some pretty cool weaponry, there's not a lot of difference between them really.
so, drj, who are the terrorists here? or if that's too difficult a question for you, is either side abiding by the accepted rules of military conduct in a war situation?
I think it means to use terror as a means to achieve a political aim/goal/objective - ergo you terrorise a population into submitting to your political aim. I think it also shows the strength of feeling /injustice/desperation involved in the cause as you dont get terrorists to improve the railways, have better schools or reduce taxation. You only get it where a group or race of people feel a massive sense of injustice - whether legitimate or not (Blacks in South Africa or USA in 60's, Catholics in Ireland, Indians under the empire for example
Personally I think that both sides are using terror to achieve a political aim (safe state and actual state/terrirtory).
PS ro why are we agreeing (politely as well) on this point and arguing elsewhere? 😆
junkyard, i think it's because i'm starting to fall in love with you, in a man-to-man sorta way...
"ahh but are you a sponge or a stone "
Hopefully as scarey /funny as the actual scene in the movie (Withnail and I )
for some reason i still don't fully understand, i have never seen that movie, so your reference leaves me flummoxed.
but i'm guessing you know i'm not serious... right?
*looks fearfully over shoulder and runs off in abject terror*
[i]so, drj, who are the terrorists here?[/i]
Like I said, using the word terrorist just tells you what side I'm on. For what it's worth, I think it's pretty clear that the Israelis are the bad guys in this story.
then you're part of the problem, drj. for until you can see that neither side deserves one ounce of support from [b]anyone[/b], you'll add to the misery, not bring it to a just and final end.
"...it's pretty clear that the Israelis are the bad guys in this story."
I don't think it's 'clear' at all. In fact, there is very little about this whole sorry episode that is in any way 'clear', apart from the intrinsic brutal nature of human beings.
Then we have different interpretations of someone shooting tank shells into a school.
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-do-they-hate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html ]Robert Fisk has some interesting comments about Israel's culpability[/url]
