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forget their inevitable backhanders.
Source? Fact or fiction?
Market forces dictate that outlets don't necessarily want to cater for around 0.3% of the population. That's simple economics
Dont disagree but the point remains that it is easier - ie very simple indeed to find something unhelathy to eat where as finding something healthy will require more effort and may not be fruitful [ see what I did there]
where as finding something healthy will require more effort
I just simply disagree. I don't think that's the case at all. In fact I think the big fast food chains are leading the way here. 🙂
But Junkyard's a level 3 vegan. He won't eat anything that casts a shadow 😉
One Big Mac does not a fatty make.
If the objection to this opening, or Maccy Ds as whole, is obesity then the protestors would be well advised to change their target. Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys and Morrions, these are the real facilitators of obesity, with their cheap processed food, cheap sugary drinks and cheap alcohol.
Obesity used to be an affliction of the well off, the supermarkets have made it accessable to everyone.
But thats not the objection, its NIMBYism plain and simple.
Would you want one opening near you?
That means very little really.
It means as much as accusing them of causing obesity.
Wow, derelict building brought back into use thread, who would have thought… ..3 pages and counting
Would you want one opening near you?
In the same way as you're apparently never more than 3ft from a rat, in a city, I doubt there are many McDonalds-less places left. Everyone must have one, or 2 or 3 within striking distance, surely? Unless you really do live out in the sticks.
I can't see the problem at all. Its a shop that sells food. Same as Christ knows how many other businesses. And has been pointed out, its a long, long way short of being the worst!
I live 'in the sticks'. My nearest one is five miles away. But then my village has two CO-OP locals: one was created to keep Tesco out.
Would you want one opening near you?
Nope. (but define near)
One where I live would be massively inappropriate since its on the edge of a national park. But there is one within a 5 min drive next to a supermarket and some other big box shops.
But if I lived 2 mins from somewhere that is described as this site is they I'd have to accept the enevitability that somehting of this ilk would open up there. I'd probably rather a McDonalds than a dodgy estate pub.
And has been pointed out, its a long, long way short of being the worst!
Yes, but as long as people can blame something/someone else for being fat rather than themselves then that's the important thing.
Yes, but as long as people can blame something/someone else for being fat rather than themselves then that's the important thing.
Spot on.
Same goes for the litter "generated". To the best of my knowledge MacDonalds don't go round the countryside placing burger wrappers in hedgerows.
Time people grew up and took responsibility for their own actions
Round here lots of people protest when a local pub closes, but they're never actually in the local pubs which is why they're closing. Seems like they just like the idea of having a pub down the road and expect them to stay open for the one night a year they pop in (to nurse a half pint for 3 hours)
The sort of people who patronise MaccyD's don't give a ****. So why not object to a what will be a generator of litter?
Litter is a problem, granted, but what about all the pollutin casued by people in afluent rural areas driving everywhere, often in big cars?
Not to mention the environmental damage created by installing infrastructure, roads etc to access such areas.
Got to love Nimbyist hypocrisy.
Time people grew up and took responsibility for their own actions
Yeah, I mean I sell a bit of crack every now and then, sometimes I go round schools trying to get kids interested, free samples to get them hooked, that kind of thing - not my fault if they get addicted is it?
I blame the parents. 😉
Spot on.Same goes for the litter "generated". To the best of my knowledge MacDonalds don't go round the countryside placing burger wrappers in hedgerows.
Time people grew up and took responsibility for their own actions
Exactly. Individuals are responsible for their own waistlines, they are responsible for their own litter, they are responsible for walking into a McDonalds and handing over their money in exchange for a burger. They are responsible for eating that burger.
Corporations, no matter how vast or powerful they may be are not personally responsible for the choices we make as individuals.
I like Macdonalds. They do something great. Consistent quality low price fast food in locations all over the world.
The number of times we've been away from home as a family and want some lunch/dinner to be ripped off paying £40/£70+ for stuff that takes an age to arrive, is crap Brake Brothers reheats or worse. I've no objection to paying for quality, but it's pot luck with pubs and restaurants in a strange town. Cafes in museums and tourist attractions are the worst. Often you want to eat because you're hungry, not an occasion. I'm not obese, my children aren't obese, we cook from scratch at home most days. We don't go every day, but we do go a couple of times a month. The coffee is good, the salads are passable for the price, and we can fill up and be on our way in half an hour and £20. They give loads of jobs to teenagers, seriously, what's not to like? On obesity? People make choices. Stick your hand up if you're sure you should choose for them.
Yeah, I mean I sell a bit of crack every now and then, sometimes I go round schools trying to get kids interested, free samples to get them hooked, that kind of thing - not my fault if they get addicted is it?
Do you force the kids to take the crack though?
For most people a Big Mac is a snack
Is that based on an indepth knowledge of eating habits of those that go into MDs, or a statement picked out of thin air with no substance behind it to support your argument? I'm sure plenty do, but plenty go in for a meal as well.
Or the pollution caused by mountain bikers driving their Audi faux-by-fauxs several hundred miles to a trail centre, bypassing their local area, and plenty of other good cycling spots on the way? Why, they may even get hungry and stop at a drive-thru MaccyD...
Litter is a problem, granted, but what about all the pollutin casued by people in afluent rural areas driving everywhere, often in big cars?Not to mention the environmental damage created by installing infrastructure, roads etc to access such areas.
Yes, good point, and what about the New York District Attorney who acted in porn films in the 70s?
I don't see people out on the streets of Farnborough complaining about that, the whiny middle-class hypocrites. 😕
Is that based on an indepth knowledge of eating habits of those that go into MDs, or a statement picked out of thin air with no substance behind it to support your argument? I'm sure plenty do, but plenty go in for a meal as well.
Well I worked there full time for about 6 months when I was 17, so I probably know more than most of the people posting in this thread. They treated their staff like shit btw - making you take your 'lunch' break an hour into a 10 hour shift because that's when they're quieter - nice.
I like Macdonalds. They do something great. Consistent quality low price fast food in locations all over the world
Indeed. I don't mind them either. They're always clean and you know what you're getting. I take my kids to chomp on a Happy Meal, maybe once every couple of weeks. Can't see the issue at all. The coffee is good
Interesting article on crap food in today's Guardian
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/nov/18/breadline-britain-nutritional-recession-austerity ]Britain in nutrition recession as food prices rise and incomes shrink[/url]
Though to be honest, I don't really get this at all. How its 'cheaper' to buy pre-packaged, processed crap than make decent meals with fresh ingredients? Does not compute
Corporations, no matter how vast or powerful they may be are not personally responsible for the choices we make as individuals.
This is the kind of cop-out these organisations use whenever they're pulled up on their advertising/PR practices. If you pump billions of dollars/pounds into persuading people to eat rubbish it's likely they'll end up eating rubbish! However it's their choice isn't it... ...both partners in the interaction have to take some responsibility.
Though to be honest, I don't really get this at all. How its 'cheaper' to buy pre-packaged, processed crap than make decent meals with fresh ingredients? Does not compute
You're right.
But if you factor in "too lazy to cook", then it all makes sense 😀
Not a fan of Macdonalds but then I've yet to be forced to eat there at gun point, I'm assuming the policy for this future farnborough branch will be largely the same...
TBF big organisations like McDonalds, Burger king, Tesco, Starbucks, etc often buy up "Prime locations" with no intention of developing them but merely to keep it from falling into the hands of their competitors.
Ownership isn't always an indication of ultimate intent...
Having said that if they currently have no local presence then I would fully expect to be enjoying the waft of Big Mac within six months...
As offensive as some organisations/Brands and their wares may be there is no compulsion to actually buy them, you can opt out of pretty much anything you like, fast food is a relatively easy one.
If you don't trust your own kids to "Make correct decisions" (as endorsed by Joliver?) on their own diet, then that is a different issue all together, the presence of a local fast food restaurant won't really change that IME...
both partners in the interaction have to take some responsibility.
Exactly - why are people so keen for only parent's to take any responsibility, while absolving companies like McDonald's from any responsibility whatsoever. These companies spend millions and millions of pounds on advertising their food to kids - why is that exactly do you think, because it doesn't work?
As offensive as some organisations/Brands and their wares may be there is no compulsion to actually buy them, you can opt out of pretty much anything you like, fast food is a relatively easy one.
Again, so the huge amounts they spend on advertising (to children especially) serves no purpose then? Wonder why they do it.
McDonalds don't want people eating it as an occasional treat, they would have kids eat it for every meal every day if they could.
What about all the people on here who've bougt iphones and devices made in 3rd world countires using cheap labour/using materials mined and produced in 3rd world countries using cheaplabour?
Or is that ok because it's 'providing jobs'?
You can't attack one thing yet stay silent about things tyou yourself indulge in. that's hypocrisy. So; everyone opposing McDs: i suppose you all live in tents made from materials you've sourced naturally and sustainably then? and nothing you do or own inviolves the exploitation of resources/people and causes no damage to the environment?
No, thought not.
This is the kind of cop-out these organisations use whenever they're pulled up on their advertising/PR practices. If you pump billions of dollars/pounds into persuading people to eat rubbish it's likely they'll end up eating rubbish! However it's their choice isn't it... ...both partners in the interaction have to take some responsibility.
No matter how persuasive the campaign of marketing is, you still have a choice.
Again, so the huge amounts they spend on advertising (to children especially) serves no purpose then? Wonder why they do it.
Because they know we are all stupid.
where as finding something healthy will require more effortI just simply disagree. I don't think that's the case at all. In fact I think the big fast food chains are leading the way here.
You are entitlted to your view but that is just prima facie nonesense and not even worthy of debate.
Totally agree with the argument about snobbery being a bigger factor than health. Plenty of other ways of eating far too much go by unscathed, but MacDonalds cops a load of grief because people think it's for the great unwashed, who simply can't help themselves. They need protecting from themselves, the poor dears.
Good article by Charlie Brooker about Gourmet Burger Kitchen vs MacDonalds.
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/20/charlie-brooker-fast-food ]It seems the key to nurturing a successful chain of fast-food restaurants in modern Britain is to provide a less reprehensible version of something popular (burgers for GBK; chicken'n'chips for Nando's), while still enabling your customers to indulge in potentially ruinous gluttony.[/url]
You can't attack one thing yet stay silent about things tyou yourself indulge in. that's hypocrisy.
Right, so unless you lead an ethically completely perfect lifestyle, there is no point in ever caring about anything?
No matter how persuasive the campaign of marketing is, you still have a choice.
So why is it that we are facing an obesity crisis then? Has peoples' fundamental nature just changed in the last few decades to become much, much greedier and lazier, for no apparent reason?
Or is there perhaps some correlation with the massive rise in consumption of low-quality industrialised food and the vast amounts of money spent on marketing it? Hmmmm I wonder.
Totally agree with the argument about snobbery being a bigger factor than health. Plenty of other ways of eating far too much go by unscathed
Yet again, the snobbery is coming from where exactly? I'd like to see some evidence for this bit:
, but MacDonalds cops a load of grief because [b]people think it's for the great unwashed[/b], who simply can't help themselves. They need protecting from themselves, the poor dears.
Because so far I've only heard it from people arguing in favour of McDonalds.
Though to be honest, I don't really get this at all. How its 'cheaper' to buy pre-packaged, processed crap than make decent meals with fresh ingredients? Does not compute.
You're right.But if you factor in "too lazy to cook", then it all makes sense.
To be fair to the article, it says:
consumers increasingly choose products [b]perceived[/b] to be cheaper and more "filling"
So that is more to do with poor education on nutritional matters. As for the "too lazy to cook", I expect that is the case for many, but if we are talking about those who are really struggling, working two jobs, or lots of overtime to survive, then there really may not be much time to cook properly.
And finally, can you really make a proper, nutritious meal from fresh ingredients for 11p/22p/33p?
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McDonalds don't want people eating it as an occasional treat, they would have kids eat it for every meal every day if they could.
And? My local Sainsbury's sells me a sandwich, a bag of crisps and and apple juice pretty much every day. I'm sure they'd like me to carry on. I'm sure my local pub would be absolutely delighted if I ate there every day. What's the difference?
Vegetarian & Vegan AND Chicken Flavour??
Junkyard - get the kettle on!!!
Right, so unless you lead an ethically completely perfect lifestyle, there is no point in ever caring about anything?
Not at all. But banging on about McDs citing ethics/health etc, whilst staying silent about the plethora of electronic gadgets you needlessly own, is hypocritical.
McDs, Apple, Samsung, BAE Systems etc all provide jobs, services and products, all of them violate various ethical and moral codes in the pursuit of profit. Why is one company more reprehensible/deserving of contempt than the others?
Blimey. This is turning into sweeping-generalisation-trackworld...
Just to keep this post mildly OT, I do agree with pp & find it funny the way no one can be bothered to get involved until it's too late, in a similar vain to the post about people moaning their local pub is shutting, while opening a bottle of £5 Merlot from Tesco because it's so expensive to drink out...
wrt McD's I eat there now & again. I do not consider a big mac to be a snack, I never litter (ok, the odd banana skin), I am not obese, I don't wear tracksuits & I am more than well aware that they are calorie rich & not massively nutritious.
But they serve a purpose, are good when you are in a rush, are reasonableyconsistent quality, not trying to be something they are not, are reasonably transparent in terms of what you are getting.....
And I bloody love a double sausage egg mcmuffin meal once in a while.
I'd say places like Costa where people pop in for a 'mid-shop' snack are far worse. You can easily knock back way more calories than a Big Mac just having a coffee & muffin, as a mid-morning snack.
I went to Starbucks with my other half last month. We treated ourselves to a 'special' coffee & a bit of cake. The coffee was 440 calories & the bit of cake was 500.....! Normally I have a small Americano, but this was on another level. Thing is, there were loads of people consuming the same sort of thing.....
At least with a McD's most people know it's bad for them. With Costa & others I suspect people know it's not healthy food, but doubt they are aware just how bad it is.
And? My local Sainsbury's sells me a sandwich, a bag of crisps and and apple juice pretty much every day. I'm sure they'd like me to carry on. I'm sure my local pub would be absolutely delighted if I ate there every day. What's the difference?
1) The fact that eating that from Sainsbury's every day probably wouldn't kill you/make you obese?
2) The fact that your local pub doesn't spend millions on advertising it's unhealthy products to your kids?
So why is it that we are facing an obesity crisis then? Has peoples' fundamental nature just changed in the last few decades to become much, much greedier and lazier, for no apparent reason?Or is there perhaps some correlation with the massive rise in consumption of low-quality industrialised food and the vast amounts of money spent on marketing it? Hmmmm I wonder.
It makes no difference. The moral truth is that you still have a choice.
McDonalds don't want people eating it as an occasional treat, they would have kids eat it for every meal every day if they could.
Are you familiar with the concept of capitalism? Name me a business that wouldn't?
consumers increasingly choose products perceived to be cheaper and more "filling"So that is more to do with poor education on nutritional matters. As for the "too lazy to cook", I expect that is the case for many, but if we are talking about those who are really struggling, working two jobs, or lots of overtime to survive, then there really may not be much time to cook properly.
Fair point. Yet the Guardian article points out that by far the highest rising food prices are for processed food. So as it becomes less affordable, people are buying more of it? Bonkers!
Whats better?
A decaying, rat infested shithole of a building, that looks like an abcess on the edge of the town, or somewhere that provides employment in a recesion.
If your rich enough that your kids don't need a part time job, great, what about everybody else?
A decaying, rat infested shithole [s]of a building,[/s] that looks like an abcess
Now come on! Farnborough's not THAT bad!
😉
grum, I'm not arguing for or agaist MacDonalds, just observing that a new MacD's seems to be targetted as a dangerous contributor to obesity in a way that a new GBK wouldn't, despite their burgers having far fewer calories.
Or a curry house. Ordering and eating way more than you need seems to be part of the curry house experience.
Can you tell me why there's such a difference in attitudes?
The fact that your local pub doesn't spend millions on advertising it's unhealthy products to your kids?
You really don't get this, do you>? Thelocal pub sells alcoholic products. Alcohiolism is is one of the greatest social diseases on earth. ergo, the local pub is just as culpable in casuing damage to society as McDs. And whilst the local pub may nort spend billins on advertising unhealthy products to children, the alcohol indiustry does, and it's that advertisng and lifestyle promotion that local pubs rely on.
No-one's innocent.
grum, I'm not arguing for or agaist MacDonalds, just observing that a new MacD's seems to be targetted as a dangerous contributor to obesity in a way that a new GBK wouldn't, despite their burgers having far fewer calories.
I don't think that's about class - I think that's about the fact that I suspect most people would see going to GBK as a treat to be done maybe once or twice a month. My experience from working at McDonald's is that it wasn't seen like that by many people. And before anyone starts wittering on about snobbery - many of those people were office workers on their lunch break, often ordering a large meal AND extra burgers, McFlurrys etc
It makes no difference. The moral truth is that you still have a choice.
What does this even mean? It makes no difference because you say it doesn't? Yes let's ignore the reasons why things happen and talk about moral truth. 😕
You really don't get this, do you>? Thelocal pub sells alcoholic products. Alcohiolism is is one of the greatest social diseases on earth. ergo, the local pub is just as culpable in casuing damage to society as McDs.
Hang on, I thought we were in favour of individual responsibility? I'm not sure when pubs started heavily marketing their products towards children though. And yes, it is irresponsible for pubs to serve alcoholics, or people that are already drunk - some of them don't. I doubt McDonalds have ever turned anyone away for being too fat.
1) The fact that eating that from Sainsbury's every day probably wouldn't kill you/make you obese?
Rather depends what you choose to buy from there, no?
Vegetarian & Vegan AND Chicken Flavour??Junkyard - get the kettle on!!!
Pot noodles are vegan - never had one mind but told this is the case
the rules are
Cheap and full of chemicals = vegan- works with biscuits as well[ more expensive noodles will have egg in them for example]
Organic, wholewheat and ethically sourced = vegan and very expensive
Fruit and veg - cheap now learn to cook
I dont think anyone is saying Mc D makes us all obese. I dont think anyone is saying you cant eat the odd bit of unhelathy food in moderation. I think it seems to be the view of some that their is a pervasive culture of fast food and eating crap that is sweeping the country and leading to us being a nation of fatties [ the evidence of rising obesity is indisputable though we could debate the causes]
I would argue that fast food places are nto the prime cause [ people are lazy and they like high fat high sugar foods rather than healthy food]but they are part of the problem
The fact that your local pub doesn't spend millions on advertising it's unhealthy products to your kids?
The money that McDonalds spends on advertising, as a percentage of its turnover, would probably be the same as your local pub if it stuck this sign outside...
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1) The fact that eating that from Sainsbury's every day probably wouldn't kill you/make you obese?
2) The fact that your local pub doesn't spend millions on advertising it's unhealthy products to your kids?
1) You could go into Sainsbury's every day and come out with a 1kg ready made trifle, just as you could go into MacDonalds every day and come out with a salad.
2) Your local pub doesn't spend millions, but once you add all the pubs and brewerys in the country's advertising up it almost certainly exceeds that of MacDonalds.
As for advertising aimed at children, I think it should all be banned. But that should be done in legislation and we shouldn't be banning particular companies or restaurants because they have become a scapegoat for "junk food".
yep.. our dying little seaside town, with it's university campus closure and one mega tesco..
Asda applied to build on a dilapidated eyesore of an unused overnight lorry park and an ageing and scruffy sports centre.. they were given very strict conditions and promised a new sports facility, pedestrianised area and so on and so forth.. it would have been a nice way to spruce up a very unloved grotty space between the rotten old train station and a marshy area of mudflats..
but the local hippies stirred up a lynch mob and the plans were quoshed, nothing positive happened as a result, the area is still a grubby piece of waste ground and it's left Tesco with a monopoly and some of the highest food prices across Europe as a result..
Though to be honest, I don't really get this at all. How its 'cheaper' to buy pre-packaged, processed crap than make decent meals with fresh ingredients?
Fresh ingredients are expensive. Very expensive. This is for two reasons.
1. It's expensive to supply fresh things, they have a short shelf lives, they go off, they grow in seasons unless you interveen expensively etc. Long life/processed food doesn't have these issues as and often a lot of the ingredients are a byproduct of fresh food.
2. The people who buy fresh are better off (on average) and prices are harder to compare directly, therefore supermarkets can charge a higher margin than for the processed stuff which is much more price sensitive.
The supermarkets and the manufacturers are the enemy here. Like the people who vetoed the traffic light labelling legistlation. Your box of chicken nuggets drops in value as soon as its got red lights all over the packaging but nobody can percive the issue with eating something which contains 50% of your GDA of salt.
1) The fact that eating that from Sainsbury's every day probably wouldn't kill you/make you obese?Rather depends what you choose to buy from there, no?
Indeed. They've got a hot food stand. Sometimes I have a Chicken Tikka Masala rather than a sandwich. Also, sometimes (way more often than I should) I buy a bag of 4 or 5 cookies and scoff them all in an afternoon.
I cycle 12 miles a day and pretty active on top of that, but plenty don't and aren't. The special cookies are on speaciel offer at the moment. I suspect they want to sell them to people, the rotters.
What does this even mean? It makes no difference because you say it doesn't? Yes let's ignore the reasons why things happen and talk about moral truth.
Why are you so belligerent? Are you [i]really[/i] that angry?
🙄 the moral truth is all that matters. The arguments you make are relevant of course but no matter what, individuals have the choice to say no. There is no force, no subliminal advertising, no lack of alternatives. You still have the ultimate say, it's your responsibility to choose.
Rather depends what you choose to buy from there, no?
1) You could go into Sainsbury's every day and come out with a 1kg ready made trifle, just as you could go into MacDonalds every day and come out with a salad.
You both missed the fact that I was specifically referring to the sandwich, crisps and apple he mentioned - not just buying anything from Sainsburys.
How many people actually buy salads from McDonalds I wonder (and weren't they found to have more fat in than a Big Mac anyway?).
I sort of take the point that McDonalds get more bad press than other companies that do bad things, but that's mainly because they are probably the biggest purveyors of crap food, that market it most aggressively to children.
Why are you so belligerent? Are you really that angry?
It's interesting that you perceive that as belligerence, it was more being bemused by your statement being completely dismissive while not really making any sense.
These two statements are completely contradictory:
the moral truth is all that matters.
The arguments you make are relevant of course
The supermarkets and the manufacturers are the enemy here.
The supermarkets have pulled off one of the greatest scams ever IMHO. People just assume that they're cheap. They're anything but! If you want to eat decent food, at least.
Fresh fruit and veg is twice the price in the supermarket, as it is the greengrocers round the corner. Same with meat and fish, compared to butchers. Yet the myth of value remains
You both missed the fact that I was specifically referring to the sandwich, crisps and apple he mentioned - not just buying anything from Sainsburys.
Still varies massively though. What sandwich will sir be having? The boiled chicken salad with no mayo, or the all day breakfast triple? White or brown bread? Crisps aren't exactly the healthy choice either! Apple juice is full of sugar.....
I'm not trying to pick holes, just illustrate that it's all about choices.
Hang on, I thought we were in favour of individual responsibility? I'm not sure when pubs started heavily marketing their products towards children though. And yes, it is irresponsible for pubs to serve alcoholics, or people that are already drunk - some of them don't. I doubt McDonalds have ever turned anyone away for being too fat.
The alcohol industry (on which pubs rely) spends silly amounts on advertising and promotion. Our culture celebrates the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Our children see drinking alcohol as normal and acceptable, mainly. So you're kind of losing the anti-McDs argument here. you could eat solely in Mc Ds and survive (albeit you'd probably be quite unhealthy). If you consumed nothing but alcohol you'd be dead very quickly. so will oyu now be campaigning for all pubs to be closed down?
i doubt any pub has ever turned away anyone for being an alcoholic.
and weren't they found to have more fat in than a Big Mac anyway?
I wouldn't be at all surprised if that were the case, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if many of the sandwiches and salads in the supermarkets were worse than a Big Mac as well. MacDonalds sells food that isn't the healthiest, but there are hundreds of other places that sell food that is just as bad for you, if not worse. Banning MacDonalds isn't the answer to our obesity problems, unless all the fatties are visiting MacDonalds 3 or 4 times a week, then they must be getting a lot of unhealthy food from elsewhere too.
i doubt any pub has ever turned away anyone for being an alcoholic.
Bet a fair few have for being too pissed though.
These two statements are completely contradictory:
I was trying to appease you. Keep you calm.
Still varies massively though. What sandwich will sir be having? The boiled chicken salad with no mayo, or the all day breakfast triple? White or brown bread? Crisps aren't exactly the healthy choice either! Apple juice is full of sugar.....I'm not trying to pick holes, just illustrate that it's all about choices.
I understand the point, but my experience is that in McDonalds no-one has the healthy option, ever. Why would you? I certainly don't if I go there. Let's face it it's only really there as a sop to healthy eating, not to actually be consumed.
Sainsburys has a pretty broad range of stuff which people actually go there for, from healthy to rubbish - not just a massive shop full of crap, with a tiny shelf of vegetables hidden in the corner. I'd be quite happy if they sold less crap and more healthy stuff btw.
The alcohol industry (on which pubs rely) spends silly amounts on advertising and promotion. Our culture celebrates the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Our children see drinking alcohol as normal and acceptable, mainly.
Yes, I don't think that's particularly great either, but then this thread is about fast food, not alcohol - we could do this 'whataboutery' all day if you like.
Banning MacDonalds isn't the answer to our obesity problems, unless all the fatties are visiting MacDonalds 3 or 4 times a week, then they must be getting a lot of unhealthy food from elsewhere too.
Nice straw man there - has anyone called for banning McDonalds? And I would say visiting McDonalds 3-4 times a week is far from uncommon.
so anyway, back to the pub in question... most of the people signing the petition, and indeed most of the people standing outside of the pub 2 saturdays ago with banners didn't go there regularly and even if it did open again, probably still wouldn't as i know most of em and they're either not local, or exactly the people who used to moan it was rubbish.
so anyway, back to the pub in question... most of the people signing the petition, and indeed most of the people standing outside of the pub 2 saturdays ago with banners didn't go there regularly and even if it did open again, probably still wouldn't as i know most of em and they're either not local, or exactly the people who used to moan it was rubbish.
Up the road from me, there are two pubs. One is closed, one is thriving. The latter has made a real effort to do something different. The former was just a rather sad place with a couple of blokes nursing pints of lager.
Pubs can, and do, thrive at the moment. It's sad to see so many shutting down, but when they do, I think we'd all rather see something constructive in their place rather than a boarded up old wreck. McD's, for all their faults and strengths, are better than a boarded up old wreck. By far.
Yes, I don't think that's particularly great either, but then this thread is about fast food, not alcohol - we could do this 'whataboutery' all day if you like.
Both are potentially damaging to individuals and society. Yet you're choosing to attack one particular company, rather than be focussed on the whole picture. My point is that if you're going to attack/oppose McDs on health grounds, then you're hypocritical if you don't also include the alcoholic drinks industry.
having lived quite close to a pub, I think I'd rather live near a McDs, as you don't tend to get so many pissed up idiots urinating in doorways/vomiting in the gutter/fighting/being noisy late at night/smashing glass etc as a result of Mcds being there than you do with (some) pubs
Thing is, its like the belief that "fast food" is cheap
fish and chips for two is a clear tenner now, KFC bucket is more, maccy d for two is nearly ten quid
Go into wetherspooons on a tuesday night and you can 2x get steak, chips and two pints for less than that 😀
Full roast dinner for £5.99, with as much veg as you like round the corner at the Toby carvery 8)
So why is it that we are facing an obesity crisis then? Has peoples' fundamental nature just changed in the last few decades to become much, much greedier and lazier, for no apparent reason?
Reduced manual labour combined with an increase in knowledge-based jobs / computers etc means the workforce is far less active, therefore we need less calories to survive. Oh - better housing, better heating, less poverty and playstations have had a big impact. Car ownership has also increased. Disposable income and the rise of eating out have had an impact.
So - our nature has probably changed less in many ways - but lots of things have changed in our culture(s), not just one. Unless you still want to demonise Ronald.
Back to the OP - people are reactive on the whole - not proactive. They will rally against something after the event far more than they will rise up and do something to prevent that event happening.
The average sandwich from Sainsburys will have around the same nutritional value as a big mac.
I mean which planet are some of you on
Sainsburys sells C200g of sandwich including protein item, sauce, lettuce and bread.
The only difference is at macdonalds is that its round and served hot
Do you think cutting a sandwich into triangles and serving it cold means its better for you
Just a load of ignorant NIMBY muppets
Both are potentially damaging to individuals and society. Yet you're choosing to attack one particular company, rather than be focussed on the whole picture.
Yes, because whenever anyone criticises anything, it's important that they remember to immediately criticise everything else in the whole world that's worthy of criticism too, for fear of being hypocritical. 😕
A pub has the potential to cause harm, but also has potential social benefits as a community hub etc. Certainly based on the McDonalds I worked at the social benefits were pretty much zero.
Reduced manual labour combined with an increase in knowledge-based jobs / computers etc means the workforce is far less active, therefore we need less calories to survive. Oh - better housing, better heating, less poverty and playstations have had a big impact. Car ownership has also increased. Disposable income and the rise of eating out have had an impact.So - our nature has probably changed less in many ways - but lots of things have changed in our culture(s), not just one. Unless you still want to demonise Ronald.
Yes those are potential factors too, but I'm pretty sure most of the latest research suggests diet is far more important than levels of physical activity (and that levels of physical activity haven't actually changed as much as is sometimes made out).
The average sandwich from Sainsburys will have around the same nutritional value as a big mac.
If you choose an unhealthy one then yes, you're right.
You can get a full roast dinner carvery for £3.99 at the pub* up the road from me. I'd rather eat a Maccy Ds any day of the week (or go hungry for that matter!)
*I'd not really call this a pub, its a junk food chain styled to mimic a traditional British drinking establishment. Its about as much a pub as Nandos is a genuine Portuguese restaurant.
And finally, can you really make a proper, nutritious meal from fresh ingredients for 11p/22p/33p?
Ask Sodexo. They run the PAYD setup for the forces and the opinions on that are... mixed. My personal opinion is that some canteens/messes do a good job and others don't. One of my least enjoyable eating experiences ever was in a PAYD mess hall.
Go into wetherspooons on a tuesday night and you can get [s]steak, chips and two pints for less than that[/s] glassed
FTFY 😉
They should have built a mahoosive Greggs instead!
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so anyway, back to the pub in question... most of the people signing the petition, and indeed most of the people standing outside of the pub 2 saturdays ago with banners didn't go there regularly and even if it did open again, probably still wouldn't as i know most of em and they're either not local, or exactly the people who used to moan it was rubbish.
That's becasue it WAS rubbish! God, I spent enough time in there, I should know. Friendly though, and good music.
But there was banners and stuff was there? I missed that. I think we were out on a bike ride in the morning and then we went to [s]Blazingsmoke[/s] [s]Basinghole[/s] Basingstoke 🙂
Well I hadn't seen those cartoon network ads. Not terribly impressed.
If i saw rubbish from my business littering the road i would be deeply ashamed.
Come off it. People who want to eat in their cars will do so, if they feel like chucking the rubbish out of the window they will do. I don't think the vendor has much to do with it.
Lots of snobbery on here.
The building next to my wife's bakery shop was for years semi-derelict looking and used for furniture storage by a student landlord. Just over a year ago he leased it to Sainsburys who turned it into a 'Local'. Since then my wife's takings have increased 40% as it contributes to making the whole area look smarter.
diet is far more important than levels of physical activity
Diet. Is that the stuff people buy at home, or is everyone just eating badly when they go to McD's? Education, not availability of the product, is to blame. People can still buy cigarettes, but less do because of education - and death of course - but education is the answer.
Yes, because whenever anyone criticises anything, it's important that they remember to immediately criticise everything else in the whole world that's worthy of criticism too, for fear of being hypocritical.
McDs are far from being the only culprits in this. so if you;'re goijng to crticise companies that help create a problem, it's unfair to target just one.
The alcohol industry is just as deserving of criticism as are McDs. Yet you chose to ignore them in your crusade against poor health. Just focussing on one part of things, rather than looking at the whole picture. Focussing on just one company as you are, means that other companies don't suffer the scrutiny they desrve.