I'm surprised they didn't try to take him to Disneyland, Weekend At Bernie's style.
Obviously, threats and violence go some distance beyond ‘having a bad attitude’, and trusts rightly can exclude relatives who do this. Badmouthing clinicians to the press and going on a misguided legal crusade doesn’t reach that criteria though
That is where our opinions diverge.
going on a misguided legal crusade
That doesn't to me indicate what has really happened here. This wasn't a family clinging to misunderstanding of the seriousness of the situation doing whatever they can, this to me was them being egged on and funded by a fringe group who have a different axe to grind on this than the best interests of the boy or the family, and which in the end has caused distress to all parties and a substantial public bill in answering it.
I don't think we're entirely in disagreement - 'misguided' was probably my very generous way of describing the family's initial position. The Christian Legal Centre goons fairly quickly got their teeth into them and exploited their tragedy for all it was worth. I don't see it as entirely bad faith on the family's part from the outset, they were mainly desperate, easily led, and vulnerable to scumbags like these. Grief and anger can have profound effects on your ability to listen to reason and accept fact.
That doesn’t to me indicate what has really happened here. This wasn’t a family clinging to misunderstanding of the seriousness of the situation doing whatever they can, this to me was them being egged on and funded by a fringe group who have a different axe to grind on this than the best interests of the boy or the family, and which in the end has caused distress to all parties and a substantial public bill in answering it.
^^^ This.
That doesn’t to me indicate what has really happened here. This wasn’t a family clinging to misunderstanding of the seriousness of the situation doing whatever they can, this to me was them being egged on and funded by a fringe group who have a different axe to grind on this than the best interests of the boy or the family, and which in the end has caused distress to all parties and a substantial public bill in answering it.
It was up to them to say “No” too.
It basically comes down to the having your own facts mindset. They may be your facts but these are ours. And if you have people incapable of knowing the difference between fact and opinion this is what you get.
If you read the judgement you will see that the case was pushing for a higher legal standard for declaration of death from on balance of probability (civil) to beyond reasonable doubt (criminal). This was rejected and no precedence established. IANAL
It basically comes down to the having your own facts mindset. They may be your facts but these are ours. And if you have people incapable of knowing the difference between fact and opinion this is what you get.
It relies on you being able to tell the difference between the two when in extremis, or, in this case, not having an 'authority' pop up to reinforce a fairy tale when your grasp on reality may be at its most fragile - which is where the role of the Christian shit-stirrers comes in. They give the appearance of a serious, legally-solid, authority, with experts and precedent on hand, when in fact they just want to use you to further their political agenda and get it into the papers.
The mum is certainly imperfect, but the shame spotlight needs to be focused on the groups that enabled and prolonged this horrible situation.
Coroner has found no evidence that the lad was taking part in an online challenge.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-63557850
but there does seem to be evidence of
In a further update following a "full forensic download" of the phone, Det Insp Weeks said: "There are a series of messages which reflect Archie's mood.
"This has only been received this morning so we will look to prepare a full report."
The coroner said: "It's low mood we're looking at here, very low mood."
Yes I don't think there was ever any chance that it was what his mother said it was.
She was in the house when it happened and found him hanging from the stairs.
😞
I can't help but think that the online challenge thing was a deflection technique and that she knows more than she's letting on.... Hence the over compensation when the docs wanted to switch the life support off.
Maybe I'll speak to my prof of forensic psychiatry friend about it.
I do wonder that - equally, maybe it's an unconcious attempt to reinterpret what must be the most horrifying of realisations.
I think you're giving her too much credit, I think she is an extremely unpleasent and selfish person who took no responsibility for her own conduct. She put NHS staff through he'll and consumed massive resources that could have been used to help others.
This is my "religious" perspective so take/discard as you wish.
This is a very sad story but I think the parents should let him go if there is no chance of recovery.
This wound will NOT heal for many future lives as the pain is unbearable for ordinary mortal to comprehend. If there is no closure or they don't know the way to say their peace, then this suffering will continue for many lives to come. Until such time as the conditions are met again the wound will never heal. The suffering for all involved is immense.
The soul & spirits of the child are now trapped in "bubble" in the space and time where the incident happened. There is no way out for his soul/spirits to escape until the time is right. (imagine you are in a dream trying to escape a certain path but all you see ahead of you is blurred and you are constantly running/walking in that space). A dimension trap. Note this is not just energy being trapped but the entire soul and spirits being trapped.
The soul/spirit of the child is now trapped in “bubble” in the space and time where the incident happens. There is no way out for his soul/spirit to escape until the time is right. (imagine you are in a dream trying to escape a certain path but all you see ahead of you is blurred and you are constantly running/walking in that space). A dimension trap. Note this is not just energy being trapped but the entire soul and spirits being trapped.
What religion is that part of?
What religion is that part of?
All.
I was cross checking various religious beliefs where they described the same thing but in different languages and religions. They are essentially explaining or describing the same thing.
This is a very sad story but I think the parents should let him go if there is no chance of recovery.
I think we might be past that slightly...... not sure you are very up to date on this particular matter
I think we might be past that slightly…… not sure you are very up to date on this particular matter
No, not up-to-date because the last time I heard the court gave the permission to switch off the ventilator. I just did not want to follow up with more related news as I know the immense suffering the parents have.
All.
I was cross checking various religious beliefs where they described the same thing but in different languages and religions. The are explaining the same thing.
These aren't the views of any religion I've heard of. Sounds like a big load of bollocks.
These aren’t the views of any religion I’ve heard of. Sounds like a big load of bollocks.
Yes, that's because they are only scratching the surface of what they teach.
The conversational "wisdom" is that if you believe or pray to certain God/deity(s) etc you will escape punishment or go to "heaven". But what exactly are they saying? Do you simply think believing or praying will help? Nope! Even with a committed believer there is no guaranteed that is the case if the person does not understand exactly what believing means.
p/s: back to the original topic.
Yes, that’s because they are only scratching the surface of what they teach.
You just make it up as you go along don't you?
I think you’re giving her too much credit, I think she is an extremely unpleasent and selfish person who took no responsibility for her own conduct. She put NHS staff through he’ll and consumed massive resources that could have been used to help others.
I think largely the same (just trying to be charitable!), but I also think much of this horrible, unnecessary mess was at the behest of the Christian Legal gits who absolutely do not have the family's interests at heart. They escalated the Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans cases too - when they slide through studs up, the parents are just pawns at that point
I think you’re giving her too much credit, I think she is an extremely unpleasent and selfish person who took no responsibility for her own conduct. She put NHS staff through he’ll and consumed massive resources that could have been used to help others.
I don't think unpleasant is the right description of the pain she is going through. Her pain makes it difficult to let go and knowing that part of the incident may be attributed by her. When there is no escape in the way she feels/regrets/loss etc the only way is to cling on to whatever there is to remedy the situation or to refocus on external elements to take away the pain. What she is realising is the fact that the event has already happened and there is no way to turn back the clock. Her action, although can be perceived as selfish, that is the only coping mechanism she knows. That pain is so immense that she is channeling that pain outwards but deep down she is trying to stay strong to avoid a breakdown.
Have sympathy.
I think largely the same (just trying to be charitable!), but I also think much of this horrible, unnecessary mess was at the behest of the Christian Legal gits who absolutely do not have the family’s interests at heart. They escalated the Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans cases too – when they slide through studs up, the parents are just pawns at that point
All of this - regardless of her past, highly charged emotional situation for a parent, easily manipulated by a quasi religious organisation
All of this – regardless of her past, highly charged emotional situation for a parent, easily manipulated by a quasi religious organisation
I have not followed the news for a while but the way to help her is to help her to let go.
It is precisely in this sort of moment true religious teaching will teach us to let go and not cling on to the pain. (not easy at all)
I think she is an extremely unpleasent and selfish person
It's easy to judge, it's much harder to understand.
Have sympathy.
Exactly.
I have not followed the news for a while but the way to help her is to help her to let go.
Maybe you should take a look then?
She's not involved with the latest information release.
The soul/spirit of the child is now trapped in “bubble” in the space and time where the incident happens. There is no way out for his soul/spirit to escape until the time is right. (imagine you are in a dream trying to escape a certain path but all you see ahead of you is blurred and you are constantly running/walking in that space). A dimension trap. Note this is not just energy being trapped but the entire soul and spirits being trapped.
What religion is that part of?
Isn't that from the film Poltergeist?
I posted the update without comment on the mother, just to point out that the coroner had found no evidence of the TikTok type challenge that was allegedly the root of this tragedy. I said in my original post
this young lad seems to have fallen ill as a result of some pointless social media ‘blackout challenge’
which subsequently seems to be false, and I take back any blame angled at them. Why the family / mother were so determined to blame social media, I guess will come out in the full inquest in time.
On the matter of sympathy / empathy. Of course I am sympathetic to anyone who has lost a child or loved one, especially in tragic circumstances like this. But that isn't the same as granting carte blanche over how you then behave to others, even if egged on to it by the CLC and others.
You just make it up as you go along don’t you?
Give him a chance. It's no less plausible than any of the other faiths. Fast forward 10 years, and guru Chewkw could be holed up in some mansion full of devoted cultists.
Devoted single track world big hitting cultists at that
Kool aid anyone?
I think you’re giving her too much credit, I think she is an extremely unpleasant and selfish person who took no responsibility for her own conduct. She put NHS staff through he’ll and consumed massive resources that could have been used to help others.
A frightened parent would do about anything they can wouldn't you think ?. Their focus is upon their child, and the love between mother and child is so strong it likely she blotted out everything else and became totally blinkered to the situation her chjjild was in.
I expect were it possible, she would sacrifice her own life if it meant the boy survived.
Would you want your own kids/relatives end will be reaching for the plug to the life support should you be seriously injured or brain damaged for example in a bike accident. Knowing you are of the opinion things should be just switched off and they must accept the doctors advice and disclude any chance of recovery.
He wasn't "seriously injured or brain damaged" He was dead with a beating heart. there was no chance of recovery. IIRC he had "coned" which is where the pressure in your head squidges part of your brain out of the hole at the bottom of your skull. He was clearly and unequivocally dead
He wasn’t “seriously injured or brain damaged”
I wasnt referring to the kids condition TJ, just an analogy towards the poster.
And as to the boys condition, i fully agree. Only felt it should be pointed out that a mother will go to extreme lengths and display an irrational outlook. The poster felt that wasnt important or relevant and sought to attack the mother with his comment.
Ah - sorry. Missed that
I expect were it possible, she would sacrifice her own life if it meant the boy survived.
Did you not see any coverage of the mother or her back story!
Would you want your own kids/relatives end will be reaching for the plug to the life support
Absolutely if after listening to the doctors and asking a some searching questions. In fact we've had had that conversation at home. Had the same conversation with both my mum and mother in law, all of the same opinion, if there's little to no chance of recovery with some quality of life please pull the plug.
Jesus christ Stumpyjon, listen to yourself?
Using resources
Parents fault
Better off dead.
Are you in the right place? There is a Daily Fail comments section calling out for you.
Meanwhile back in the real world, I feel sorry for the kid and his family and don't really feel any of us has the right to an opinion as to his right to life. When the world is full of Elon Musks and massive corps offshoring vast budgets I refuse to hear any wasting resource argument and am happy for the support of this kid and the research of these cases to go on in the hope that we may heal them or future cases.
Be nice. Peace out.
Meanwhile back in the real world, I feel sorry for the kid and his family and don’t really feel any of us has the right to an opnion as to his right to life.
In the real world the kid was dead. The "right to life" was as irrelevant as it was when applied to someone who has just been cremated. The only difference was the machines giving a semblance of life.
So you say, nobody actually knows his awareness or if his consciousness wil recover.
5plus8
Having worked in ITUs and having seen similar situations the mental trauma to the staff must have been immense. How about a little consideration for them being made to go thru this?
The child was dead. To be forced to continue treating a corpse is horrendous
So you say, nobody actually knows his awareness or if his consciousness wil recover.
Large parts of his brain had turned to mush & drained out of the whole in the bottom of his skull. Seriously? you think he is going to regain consciousness?
tj, logical fallacies x 2, appeal to authority and appeal to experience.
Its neither of our places to pronounce him dead, leave that to his parents, Drs and the legal types.
5plus8. He had "coned" IIRC its completely impossible he had any consciousness or awareness and completely impossible he had any prospect of ever recovering.
His brain had been turned to mush and forced out of the hole at the bottom of his skull by pressure in his head
I have seen this happen with children. Its very clear. this is not a marginal or edge case. The childs brain was mush. He was dead
5plus8
That what the doctors had said. This is very clear. its not a grey area and not a matter of opinion. Its fact.
nobody actually knows his awareness or if his consciousness wil recover.
Yes they did, in fact his brain was so badly damaged they couldnt do the normal tests, his brain was dribbling down his spine, he was rotting from the inside. There was no doubt.
I refuse to hear any wasting resource argument and am happy for the support of this kid
Easy for you to say, what about all the people who got bumped down the care list, of those that had to wait longer in A & E because a bed got blocked or nurses were needless tied up tending to a dead body (not to mention the impact on those nurses).
Rather than over reacting to comments on a mountain biking forum maybe take a few minutes to think before spouting such sentimental and uninformed guff. You've been totally and uncritically sucked in by the self centred narrative pushed by the mother to cover up her personal failings egged on by an odious and self serving political group in the background. If you want to align yourself with those peope feel free, personally I'd rather listen to the doctors, coroner and judges involved in the case who have first hand knowledge of the facts combined with the expertise and knowledge to interpret those facts.
