I have little or no interest in the magazine, and certainly no interest in the product reviews, fresh goods Friday and the weekly blingporn articles.
( with the notable exception of some of the excellent semi political stuff Hannah has done in the last year)
I am exceedingly interested in the huge amount of route knowledge from people on the forum. I'm also occasionally interested in specific, targeted advice for technical queries I have. I'm also a bit interested in people's views on certain bikes.
Since the only paying option is to subscribe to the mag, I do that.
But I'm not really getting through impression my money is being put to good use. All I want is a forum that works. I can post a message and it appears with images and quotes in a simple and intuitive way. And on the rare occasions we reach that state, I don't want it to be suddenly changed to a new, whizzy but ultimately broken new version.
I seem to recall writing internet forum software around 25 years ago in my job at the time. It wasn't very good, but I'm sure that things should have moved on and there should now be a consensus in the world about how a simple forum works. Hell there may even be packages for sale that do it. 😉
Couldn't we have an option for a Forum only subscription and use that money to fix the forum and keep it functional, rather than people having to pay a sub which is ostensibly for the mag, but people only actually pay for the side benefit that it keeps the forum alive.
STW do you actually have any data on the number of subscribers that subscribe for the mag versus the number that subscribe for the forum?
Well I for one only really come here for the forum, no real interest in the rest
digital sub works for me.
I support the mag and no trees die.
I'd not be sure that the forum itself would generate sufficient revenue to make it worthwhile. I don't read the mag much but am happy to support the folk and the community.
There's a forum?
Be interesting to see the numbers and how much revenue forum users generate Vs no forum users.
I kind of agree on the mag content. Especially since the last site update.
I would be happy to pay the same fee to access the forum.
I've got one requirement to subscribe and that's a working killfile. I don't like magazines in general so I'd only be paying for the forum and if they can't get that right then what's the point. I'm on two forums, this one and one for weed and the stoners run a way better forum. I'll forgive the rest but not the killfile.
And that red banner that tries to be more annoying than ads just makes me dig my heels in to be honest.
Its a Yes from me , If they invest in some tech authors who know what theyre doing. Give us a Like button and remove the ads if Im paying .
The mag is what it is , but its relevance is waning with each issue. Sorry.
There's a Mag?
one for weed and the stoners run a way better forum
Are you freeloading on that one too?
Really can't see why people moan about something they are using for free 🤷♂️
Give us a Like button and remove the ads if Im paying
50% achieved already!
There's a quote function that works??
I'm not complaining, just setting out my terms and conditions.
And as for freeloading, they have the technology to stop me doing that but choose not to, if it doesn't bother them that much I don't see why it should bother you.
The other site does not have a subscription option, but neither does it have a magazine to support.
I was happy paying for the digital membership, but did get it on a recent offer. I became a member again as the content can be interesting even though I'm not exactly target market. Forum-only option sounds like a good idea.
The question has been asked before - more than once.
My belief is that forum-only users are, in effect, subsidising the magazine. Given the choice, I'd like to see my subs invested in a better forum experience. We know that, shorn of the need to integrate with the publishing side, the forum software would be much simpler to develop and maintain. However, Mark has also said that he doesn't want to be the owner of "just" an internet forum, so we're in the position we are in.
I dont' really care.. I sub for the forum as its a really good source of entertainment and knowledge, such a wide veriety of people and opinions, so I don't want to 'free load', but I can also look at the digital copy of the mag too if I want to.
Apparently it's about biking, who knew? But seriously I got loads of really good advice several years back when I didn't really know too much about mountain bikes.
Some very kind members even sent me a pair of x9 shifters and some XHP grease, wouldnt take any money or even an amazon voucher for thier troubles, so I pay forward these favours when I can.
I'ts a great community overall, that I wouldn't want to jepordize by compartmentalizing it too much.
Paying? for a forum? I don’t think many would. Like, putting the forum behind a paywall, or voluntary payments for a different colour badge, or what?
Paying? for a forum? I don’t think many would.
That's a value judgement. No ads, better experience, etc. I think that could be monetized. Otherwise it's stagnant, bugs aren't fixed and you're relying on unpaid volunteers to run it. Who pays for hosting?
I’m happy to support the magazine but it definitely isn’t what I love about STW. The forums and it’s members are why I subscribe.
No ads, better experience,
Ah yeah, true. I forget about the ads cos the browser I use on my ipad doesn’t show them and they’re blocked by my work’s proxy
Paying? for a forum? I don’t think many would.
Well so far the answers seem to suggest to the contrary. There appears to be a fair few who are just subscribing for the forum. But the irritating thing is that we're being ignored.
Like, putting the forum behind a paywall, or voluntary payments for a different colour badge, or what?
In the first instance just add a third payment option for forum only. It gives you the same site access as the freeloaders gives us the warm fuzzy glow that we're paying for something we're getting. And perhaps gives the management a more realistic view of where their money comes from. Which they currently appear not to have a clue about.
It’s what, £25 a year currently for a digital sub that also gets rid of the ads? How much less would you expect to pay for just the forum?
a tenner a year? Then, just 7500 extra of you would pay the wages/NI etc for 1 “forum specific dev”. Call it 10000 extra subscribers to make up for the lost ad revenue, and maybe make a little bit of profit to make it worthwhile, although that would get eaten into by cloud costs and other sundries but let’s not quibble over a few 1000 here or there. But that’s an unlikely ~20000 extra subscribers for just 2 extra devs.
Also, it’s really easy to spin up a discourse forum for next to nothing, so any one of you could go off and do that, yet here we all are 🤷
‘Just’ a forum wouldn’t pay the salaries of 10 people.
a media business WITH a forum can.
I reckon I could run a forum business with 1 tech. But I really really REALLY like the other 8 staff I’d have make redundant. Plus we’d need 2 to three times the traffic to that forum to earn a good living using programmatic ad revenue. Paywalled forum is a fantasy. Why would you pay? Set up a FB group for free. Or a subreddit?
programmatic revenue is in decline anyway so we’d need another revenue stream. Maybe sell ads to the industry? Brands aren’t going to pay much for their ads next to forum posts that could be toxic to them. But they might sponsor the forum? That would be one brand. Not enough. Plus now we are talking ad sales. That’s going to need another staffer or expensive freelancer. Maybe commission only based? One sponsor won’t be enough. What else could we sell? How about ads/sponsorship around other content? Like editorial. That’s going to need to be written. That’s expensive. So we are paying contributors now. It will need editing too if the brands are going to be happy to have their ads around it. So now we are dealing with admin and accounts and invoices. That’s another job.
Etc etc.
All of that is with no revenue from actual readers. Just an ad funded model. Some of you don’t read the editorial and still subscribe. I absolutely appreciate your position. But thousands of you do read the editorial and the printed mags. We have a very strong reputation globally for that. I no it’s not for everyone but our mag advertising revenue added to our membership revenue makes up two thirds of our entire turnover and as a result allows me to employ 9 amazing people full time.
my life would be much more comfortable ‘just’ running a forum business. But it would be a whole lot lonelier and rather empty.
I like Singletrack and I like what it has become, despite its wonky forum and weird 20s delay when posting and unintuitive quote tool. I like the people it’s brought together over the years and the way this community works and pulls together when it needs to. I know that this community is built on the people who contribute and that means it’s not ‘mine’. I just run it but the community is yours. But this place is much more than just a forum and if I decided to reduce it to that it would not work.
Now. Last weeks updates broke some things. Those bugs have been pretty much squashed and a bug fixing update is due on Monday.
have a great weekend everyone. I’m off to pour a drink. See you on Monday. 🙂
I pay for the forum because without paying it's the worst browsing experience of any website I visit regularly. I don't think they have their priorities right though; a like button would be way down my to do list when there's far more important things to fix or implement.
yet here we all are
We are all here because we put value in the current community and the content it creates. I don't think it's unreasonable to want a better forum based on the current subscription cost - one that responds faster, doesn't suffer from ads, is faster-loading, has a better editor, easier photo linking, a quote function etc.
There's a like button??
I wondered what those numbers were under the STW icon on posts - I assumed it was just a bug in the software...!
What I like about full membership is you get a kill file, I can’t believe no one has mentioned that.
If you do- then i'm in! But do you?
It's £25 to subscribe digital for a year. How much less than ~£2 a month do you want to pay for a "forum only" option? Just subscribe and not read anything other than the forum. FFS.
It’s £25 to subscribe digital for a year. How much less than ~£2 a month do you want to pay for a “forum only” option? Just subscribe and not read anything other than the forum. FFS.
Point missed.
The yearly subscription is a tiny amount of money and it helps pay for STW in general.
You get a nice mage full of interesting articles.
Pay for it and help those people fell thankful they didnt waste their time at university.
It's 2 quid for digital only so less than 50p per week....
I'd argue that's not bad value plus the mag is really good value.
However the forums not glitch free. Its not unusable but isn't a finely polished product. However that's not a huge issue for me. Can be frustrating but meh.
It's artisanal
Well so far the answers seem to suggest to the contrary.
You're surprised that forum users are posting in favour of the forum, on the forum?
Now. Last weeks updates broke some things. Those bugs have been pretty much squashed and a bug fixing update is due on Monday.
Can you unbollocks the editor please Mark? It's properly getting on my tits. You know better than I do that TinyMCE doesn't work properly on here, it never has.
That’s in Mondays release. I know it gets on your tits. The unhelpful sarcastic email you sent gave that away 😉
EDIT
Just tested the quote function. It works as it always has just without adding the visible code
🤷♂️
The unhelpful sarcastic email you sent gave that away
Well, if that's your opinion of my feedback then it's an easy fix.
Those of you that don’t read the mag/flick through and aren’t drawn in: what do you want to see? Every issue I try and pull together a mix of locations, riding styles, and writing styles. And then I try and mix that up across the year, so that all those different things are fairly evenly spread. And then I try and make sure that what’s in there is pretty timeless - with the news/immediate read stuff on the web.
Even the reviews I try and make fairly timeless, and relevant even if you’ve got no interest in actually buying the thing. Kind of a ‘state of the market now’ look at things rather than a straight buyer’s guide review - those go on the web.
So, that’s the parameters: timeless content across a broad range of mtb riding styles. What do you want more of? Or less of? Or what do you not see at all that you wish was there?
My inbox is always open!
dyna-ti
Full Member
The yearly subscription is a tiny amount of money and it helps pay for STW in general.You get a nice mage full of interesting articles.
Pay for it and help those people fell thankful they didnt waste their time at university.
I agree. I'm paying for 2 streaming services at the moment and frankly most of their content is rubbish.
My digital sub is by far and away the best value for money purchase I make in a whole year. The mag and the forum sub cost a pittance and I'd really miss the mag and the people that contribute to it.
Piracy is actualy easy if you don't care about HDR on an OLED screen, most of it it 1080ish... makes you think why bother paying more for less?
EDIT: i say this as an amazon subscriber, lol
Paying? for a forum? I don’t think many would
I certainly wouldn't pay for a forum. I don't pay for any other forums and they don't even have a member/pay option. I put up with the ads and awful UX as a form of payment. If all those ads are not paying for the poor level of development then the forum would just have to call it a day I guess.
Personally, I can never believe how some of the forum users here can be so 'kin rude to the good folks who produce Singletrack magazine and provide this forum.
Mark and Hannah explain things time and time again and yet still, several whining individuals with no table manners and zero tact, pipe up for a dig again and again.
Must be pretty demoralising for them I imagine. 😐
Those of you that don’t read the mag/flick through and aren’t drawn in: what do you want to see?
More effort put into the forum running smoothly. I don’t think this is abut the mag, more the state of the forum at times and a desire for more resources to be put in that direction. You are going to get a biased view asking on the forum of course
