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More or Less did this in the Summer:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04yk0jfWill listen later, I’m dubious about these numbers.
I was right first time. More Or Less FTW, once again.
It's the first segment so you get right to it.
Yes, she’s of historical note as the first female MP
Wrong, that was Constance Markievicz of Sinn Fein who, in line with party policy, never took her seat in Westminster. Won Dublin St Patrick's in 1918 from Holloway.
Nobody will give a shit about any anti semitism now the election is done. It won't ever get mentioned again in the press.
Nobody will give a shit about any anti semitism now the election is done. It won’t ever get mentioned again in the press.
That's a really strong point.
Yeah, Labour can fill their boots with antisemitism now they have no chance of seizing power. They're irrelevant.
Good article. I'm certainly not going to tar a huge demographic with the same brush but a decent proportion of these Corbyn hating Tory voting working class are xenophobes or racists, and yet they'd never vote for him because he's an antisemite. There was a heated discussion the other day on a friends facebook where a few of these creatures felt empowered to crawl out of the woodwork, one comment was along the lines "Corbyn scum haha, great now all these dirty *ers can * off back home lol." So I asked him if Corbyn being an antisemite is one of the reasons he hated him so much? "Yes, and many other things". The ignorance is astounding.
It's a new right wing trick to win votes. Call anyone that speaks out against the Israeli government's terrorism an antisemite. Trump's started doing it to Bernie. A jew who's parents fled the holocaust. They had a lucky escape. Larry Sanders told me all about it when we spent a week together on Iona with others at a Conference.
Larry Sanders told me all about it when we spent a week together on Iona with others at a Conference.
You spent a week with Larry Sanders, very envious.
Nobody will give a shit about any anti semitism now the election is done. It won’t ever get mentioned again in the press.
You do wonder whether some on here actually have any interest in mtb or even have any bikes.
Anti-semitism definitely cost them the election.
https://twitter.com/TheUriGeller/status/1206520912884969473
If they sort things out now, in five years they can get a magic spoon that was once licked by Golda Meir.
https://www.thejc.com/comment/columnists/don-t-fall-for-bogus-claims-of-islamophobia-1.494367
oh the ironing
Is this the kind of thing that is considered antisemitic?
https://twitter.com/ma000111/status/1207247222074679296
and yet they’d never vote for him because he’s an antisemite
They didn't vote for him because he didn't have enough political nous to say "sorry". It demonstrated how inept he was.
Would you apologise for something you didn't do? Asking for an apology is a trope for an admission of guilt, 'tropes' are all about putting words in others' mouths to call them out and shut them up, like M Phillips.
I used to have regular meetings with FoI and gradually as I discovered the mindset and modus operandi I was appalled. Phrases like 'all ethnic groups compete' shocked me having sat on countless interview panels where the last thing on my mind was advantaging someone's application because of their particular ethnic group or engaging in ethnic cleansing.
I do wish someone would produce some evidence of who, when, where, what did they say. With modern technology it shouldn't be difficult, if the evidence is there.
Would you apologise for something you didn’t do?
He would be apologising as Labour Leader rather than as JC, so it's just part of the job.
As a leader I'd still want evidence, that's part of the job.
They didn’t vote for him because he didn’t have enough political nous to say “sorry”. It demonstrated how inept he was.
Exactly, I think Corbyn's downfall he as so anti-establishment that he was disconnected how it looked to voters on the fence, and as well put in the left supporting press (many articles from the Guardian), he should have actually resigned to give Labour and the country a chance to not have the next 5 years under conservative rule. It's not only Anti Semitism where he proved too stubborn for office, he refused to condone the IRA.
Imagine if he'd apologised a couple of years ago, he might have won the election, but as a result he got what he deserved and unfortunately the country has to be a victim to his ideological, politically immature selfishness.
Yes, he was useless at dealing with things. Any decent leader would have sorted out the problem very quickly.
- Put processes in place and make them visible (especially to media)
- Apologise for any issues caused
- Ask for any future issues to be highlighted to the leader so he can review that processes are working correctly
Instead of that he skirted around the issue until a few days before election where he sort of apologised in an f'ing Philip Schofield interview of all places.
I am actually not convinced it made much difference to the vote as majority of people don't actually care (they voted Tory so can't care) but it did distract many interviews away from what should have been the topics pushed by Corbyn
He apologised last year. He apologised earlier this year. Labour remains the only political party with an actual process to deal with complaints (of all sorts).
Corbyn is a ****, but he's not racist or antisemitic. This is 100% about Israel, not Jews.
That's an uncontroversial view held by a sizeable section of the intellectual labour-supporting jewry who think Israel is an apartheid state. - it's difficult to call them antisemitic as it means calling them self-haters.
Lets separate this out for what it is. I give zero shits about Labour. I think racism and antisemitism are terribad. I don't think - but can clearly see - that Israel is an inherently racist, violent human-rights abuser and murderous state and our continued protection of it should shame us.
he refused to condone the IRA.
I absolutely refuse to condone the IRA too.
Also, what he said ☝🏼
Corbyn is a ****, but he’s not racist or antisemitic.
Yep, but some of the members are, which was the problem. He didn't look as though he was dealing with it well and didn't have the media awareness to even pretend he was.
some of the members are
Evidence for this? You can't just keep repeating these vile tropes without naming names. Go on, dare ya.
he refused to condone the IRA
Even if you use the right word that’s not actually true.
Evidence for this? You can’t just keep repeating these vile tropes without naming names. Go on, dare ya.
Where have you been for the last 3 years. There is loads of evidence of AS crap from members.
Not surprising as just because somebody is a labour member it doesn't mean they can't be racist and no party will ever be 100% pure.
Again, the thing that Corbyn failed to portray that it was a minority, it was being dealt with and he was sorry for any issues that his parties members were causing others. He needed more help on how to deal with that aspect handling the media.
Obviously I meant Corybn hasn't condemned the IRA.
Chevychase, the problem with the way you and many people express their thoughts about the situation in Israel is how it's worded, and as a politician Corybn has failed at this.
A person might be critical is American politics, so they cite issues with Trump. You might have concerns with the far right in Brazil and criticise Jair Bolsonaro. When a person is accused of being anti-semitic with their views on the situation in Israel, it's because it's worded as criticising an entire country rather than the ruling party and their leader.
If you were to say all Americans are racist Mexican haters who support supplying weapons for those to shoot school children for fun and they don't deserve to exist, you would be xenophobic. Somehow wording it this way about Israel is not seen as racist, but it is.
he refused to condone the IRA.
Freudian Slip?
I meant Corybn hasn’t condemned the IRA.
Right word but still incorrect.
Still talking about IRA and Corbyn? Yawn.
Talk about Maria Gatland and the Tories for a change. You know for evidenced based connection between a Tory and actually being a member of the IRA.
It will also be interesting when a new Labour leader is selected (assuming they have no anti Israel history and no talking to terrorists at any point) how much of an issue there will be for Labour in the future. I would imagine very little.
@solamanda - I roundly condemn this in the strongest terms as emotional unevidenced bull:
Chevychase, the problem with the way you and many people express their thoughts about the situation in Israel is how it’s worded, and as a politician Corybn has failed at this.
Tell me exactly how there is a problem with the "wording" of this, which is what you've responded to:
Israel is an inherently racist, violent human-rights abuser and murderous state and our continued protection of it should shame us.
...
Explicit condemnation of Israel. Not a whiff of antisemitism.
The problem isn't the way that the vast majority of people word their criticism of Israel - it's that there's a powerful, well-funded, pro-Israel lobby that are doing their level best to (with incredible success) conflate criticism of Israel with antisemitism. And it means large swathes of our population aren't able to hold an adult discussion about the horrors that Israel inflicts - so Israel gets away with it.
Antisemites exist. Big deal. That's a totally separate issue.
Yep, but some of the members are, which was the problem. He didn’t look as though he was dealing with it well and didn’t have the media awareness to even pretend he was.
He could hardly have handled it worse from a PR point of view other than maybe saying 'yeah, so what?'.
At best he showed complete indifference to the whole issue, at worst tacit approval. He was strung up by his own indifference, provided his own noose and tree and all the media had to do was pull...
He was a walking PR disaster from start to finish.
Israel is an inherently racist, violent human-rights abuser and murderous state and our continued protection of it should shame us.
May be better to say "the government of Israel" rather then just "Israel" which implies the people living there are human rights abusers and murderers. While they are largely complicit by electing who they do they can't all be called that.
Israel is an inherently racist, violent human-rights abuser and murderous state and our continued protection of it should shame us.
May be better to say “the government of Israel” rather then just “Israel” which implies the people living there are human rights abusers and murderers. While they are largely complicit by electing who they do they can’t all be called that.
That is not the way people talk about countries. I’m not saying I agree with what chevychase has said, but it was clear what he meant.
He could hardly have handled it worse from a PR point of view other than maybe saying ‘yeah, so what?’.
go on then, tell us how he could have handled it and got a favourable reaction from daily fail, murdochs climate deniers, the express, the barclay brothers gammons utd. They found a stick to beat him with and there was nothing he could say or do would stop them beating.
Absolutely clear:
Israel is an inherently racist, violent human-rights abuser and murderous state.
Not even 'Israelis are murderous arseholes' (which still isn't antisemitic as not all Israelis are jews any more than all the brits are christian) - but explicitly state.
Get yer heads out of your arse. It IS the 'way people talk about countries' - just not Israel, because they shout "JEW HATER" at anyone who even hints at criticism.
The problem the Labour Party has with antisemitism is exactly the same as the problem UEFA has with racism
They both have a glaringly obvious problem with it, but neither express any remotely serious intention to acknowledge it, let alone address it
So in the same way that when black players are faced with monkey chants, UEFA shrugs and issues the offending team with some cursory, derisory fine, and considers the matter done, Jeremy Corbyn did the same as Jewish labour MPs are hounded out of the party and the Corbynista’s pile in with vile, abusive antisemitism online. As well as their misogynistic sexism of course - it all goes hand in hand.
All with total impunity as ‘the leadership’ demonstrates their collective disinterest in the whole subject.
Failure to address the issue properly is basically just a tacit endorsement. A nod.
Carry on...
Move along now... nothing to see here
Chevychase have a +1.
Sorry, haven't the thread but it's the internet so here's my take. Israel is a Jewish state, any criticism of Israel is a criticism of Jews and therefore anti-semitic. So, to be pro-semitic (is that a thing?) you have to be in favour of Israeli troops shooting stone throwing Palestinians, or the settlement of occupied lands, etc, whilst condemning anything the Palestinians do.
Then you've got the chief rabbi congratulating his "long standing friend" on becoming leader of the Tories whilst at the same time condemning Labour as being anti-semitic and the whole lot being repeated by the right wing Tory supporting press. Really??
There is no more a problem with anti-semitism with the membership than the general population at large.
It's a red herring in terms of a practical debate. Designed to keep the attention away from the Tories.
Noam Chomsky (whom I consider slightly more of a heavy weight than some of the tabloid analysis...) has just done a decent interview on this subject.
It's just another reason to take apart Labour. The report is disproportionate to the issue; certainly when compared to other types of racism.
It feels like Labour take all the flak for everything they stand for these days which is repeated ad infinitum without scrutiny and it's a wonder why they don't get elected. People like Jonathan Freedland quite clearly have an agenda to use this a battering ram. This is despite the fact they are by far the most socially progressive party we have.
Absurd.