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OOB is just clearly making the point. Its a political witchunt based of a series of falshoods and used by rightwingers like him to attack labour
And yet right wingers hardly ever mention it, look up this thread. Links after link from left wing sources like the Canary keeping the thread going. A succession of left wingers posting to keep this thread going.
AS costs Labour 0 [1][2] votes and keeps all of the bat shit mental stuff Labour are going to do out of the news. If you're looking for a conspiracy that's it. AS is a brilliant dead cat for Labour.
[1] ...and if you read Nickc's post you might conclude it gains them votes.
[2] Actually that's not true, it's cost them the marginal of Sedgefield because Philip Wilson, but you take my point.
STW - Come for the bikes, stay for the Anti Semitism
Momentum showing up had very little do do with it.
At the peak 65pc of Jewish people voted Labour. Now 7pc do. Coincidence?
Either way it doesn't matter, there are only 300k Jewish people in the UK, and 3,000,000 Muslims. Labour are not gonna lose any votes over AS, none of their core vote are remotely bothered by AS. Electorally it's a non-issue for them.
Racial stereotyping much OOB?
Labour are not gonna lose any votes over AS, none of their core vote are remotely bothered by AS.
That I agree with. It will make no difference and sure why the media are so obsessed with it as they think it will make a difference they are wrong.
I am not bothered about it in the Labour party any more than I am bothered about it outside of the Labour party. I am bothered about all racism but it is not going to go away and it has been getting worse over last decade. Labour are trying to put things in place to sort it out which is more than is being done outside of the Labour party.
All is has shown to me is how over dramatic people can get when people seriously think life for jewish people with a Labour government would be so intolerable that they would need to leave the UK.
There's good precedence for that, being sensitive to language and rhetoric means you're less likely to end up getting gassed. Whether it's sensible is immaterial, it's cultural PTSD that is understandable.
outofbreath
Member
So this week Ivan Lewis, a Jewish guy who left the Labour party a year or so back makes a FB post. Within a couple of minutes Unite’s Chairman Tony Woodhouse comments with ‘Juju’. (He claims his account was hacked.)
Also OOB:
And yet right wingers hardly ever mention it, look up this thread. Links after link from left wing sources like the Canary keeping the thread going. A succession of left wingers posting to keep this thread going.
the vast majority of jewish voters support the Conservatives
So much so that there's no comment from the Chief Rabbi, Rachel Riley or all the other people that wade into anti-semitism after Teresa May unveiled the Nancy Astor statue yesterday. A known anti-semite, a supporter of Hitler who speculated that Hitler could be the solution to the “world problem” of Jews.
A better demonstration that the issue is being used politically to demonise the Labour party and not to advance the acceptance of our Jewish population.
I didn't know much about Nancy Astor until today. The fact that she was a full on anti semite is very clear it seems. The double standards are astounding and at the same time so telling.
At the peak 65pc of Jewish people voted Labour.
Way back when many were members of the working class. It's changing social class position that's reflected in voting patterns, that happened long before all this AS malarky started up.
The Astor statur thing was shameful. Yes, she's of historical note as the first female MP, but many of her views were/are abhorrent.
Meanwhile, have a watch of this.
Excruciating.
Ivan Lewis ex-Labour MP on who to vote for...
[Spolier, not the antisemitic party]
No doubt the usual voices will be along shortly to tell us why everything in the latest leak isn’t true:
https://www.scribd.com/document/438367082/Redacted-JLM-Closing-Submission-to-the-EHRC
To be in the JLM you neither have to support Labour nor be jewish. I think that might just leave the door open for a little manipulation and skulduggery.
Corbyn, blatant smear campaign against him, dealt with it badly shown no leadership allowing problem to fester.
BoJo, makes numerous bigoted and racist comments, openly courting racism and creating false fears based on race, nationality and religion to win votes.
Anyone who thinks the tories and bojo have a better track record on race than labour is a delusional ****ing idiot. And how anyone who was once labour, who claimed o represent the working classes could now endorse the most far right major party this country has seen in probably well over a century is beyond belief, it just shows he was never in it to serve his constituents he was in it for himself and now scorned he will **** them all over for cheap point scoring. And lets not forget he resigned from the labour party while under investigation for sexual misconduct.
Meanwhile, have a watch of this.
Priceless.
If you're defending your party from a charge of anti-semitism does saying "They're Jews, they're always coming up with stuff" help? 🙂
And how anyone who was once labour, who claimed o represent the working classes could now endorse the most far right major party this country has seen in probably well over a century is beyond belief, it just shows he was never in it to serve his constituents he was in it for himself and now scorned he will **** them all over for cheap point scoring. And lets not forget he resigned from the labour party while under investigation for sexual misconduct.
That sounds like a motive for Unite’s Chairman Tony Woodhouse to have written ‘Juju’ on IL's FB post.
We're really not trying to put words into other people's mouths are we.
If you’re defending your party from a charge of anti-semitism does saying “They’re Jews, they’re always coming up with stuff” help? 🙂
Yeah, with their offshore accounts and stuff...
It's horrific.
I can't for the life of me see how anyone could allege some kind of Israeli conspiracy... after all Netanyahu is being done for fraud isn't he?
As for his lawyer:
https://twitter.com/RandaHabib/status/1202584350950330368
Antisemitism in Labour is lower than in other parties and in the general population:
That there are people who will say antisemitic things either purposefully or through ignorance of the many and varied 'antisemitic tropes' is unquestionable - this does not make those people or the party as a whole racist.
That there are genuine racists within Labour, the Tories and all other parties is also unquestionable and so far as I can see, Labour is not the party courting their votes or appealing to their instincts, in fact quite the opposite.
Link to the charts in context, pls. According to that 30pc of Labour voters are anti-semites which seems *way* OTT.
Antisemitism in Labour is lower than in other parties and in the general population:
While I “think” that is true, it’s worth noting that survey is two years old. The data is also about party “voters” not members, and definitely not active members. In fact, it is the mismatch between what Labour voters (and potential voters) and members expect, and what has been allowed to continue at pretty high levels within the active party, that is causing so much strife. We expect better of the Labour Party than the Conservative party on this kind of issue.
One was here:
but the actual survey is a yougov survey which I cant be bothered to root out.
The second graph was from here:
Which again uses data from Yougov.
30% of labour respondents is a lower prevalence than in other parties. Also, a 'positive' response just means that a respondent agreed with one of the statements which were deemed to indicate antisemitism - it doesn't actually prove antisemitic behaviours one way or another, but is likely to correlate.
Either way it should probably be less accross the board and it isn't solely a Labour issue.
I can honestly count on one hand the amount of times in my 44 years I've heard people making jokes/disparaging comments about Jews, it's just not on my radar. Blacks, Asians, Catholics, Irish, Gingers - aye, loads of times, but Jews? na.
But then I read that criticising the state of Israel is considered anti-semitic, this would not register with me?.
God knows.
According to that 30pc of Labour voters are anti-semites which seems *way* OTT.
On the other hand, 40% of tories being racist seems a low ball figure.
God knows.
Those handy charts list some antisemitic tropes that you hear all the time, and aren’t all about the actions of the right wing government of Israel. Antisemitism is still rife in Britain.
I fear a 2019 update to that would have us back to 2015 figures. The last few years have seemed more toxic to me. I still “feel” that it is more prevalent with Tory voters (and more pertinently with active Tory members) but all three UK wide parties have had to deselect candidates during the current election campaign because they have made antisemitic comments.
Two other points:
1- People can be ridiculously sensitive about things. My wife was speakign to a Bolivian (I think) friend who decided that our Labour MP 'is a racist' because she didn't smile at her in the street. That is the only reason.
2- A party the size of Labour - 500,000or so members is going to have its fair share of dimwits and undesirables. You can't vet them all, only deal with things after the fact, whatever procedures you put in place. The fact that the Tories have someone as unashamedly bigotted as Johnson in charge (never mind the rest of the Tory front bench) should be a real red flag to anyone with the slightest interest in fairness and democracy but for some bizarre reason he gets a free pass.
Those handy charts list some antisemitic tropes that you hear all the time
Speak for yourself, I've honestly never heard any of those.
Well, we have one handy example in this very thread. Unless it’s been deleted. The poster even went on to claim that it’s “unlikely” they are antisemitic, despite posting antisemitic nonsense. That there is the problem.
Fair enough buddy, I've only just checked back into the thread.
One was here:
The second graph was from here:
Credible sources. 🙂
More or Less did this in the Summer:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04yk0jf
Will listen later, I'm dubious about these numbers.
EDIT: No, wrong episode. I'm sure they did it in the Summer.
More or Less did this in the Summer:
Wasn’t that about something else entirely? It was a claim that most faith hate crimes were against Jews. But it was highly dubious, to put it mildly. It just didn’t stack up at all. That’s nothing to do with he prevalence of antisemetic views held by the population, or any group of voters. I’ll listen again…
The credible source is yougov. That those websites have used the numbers is neither here nor there.
Be as dubious as you like, these are surveys of british peoples attitudes presented in black and white (well, colour, bu you get what i mean).
As for fearing that we'd be back to 2019 numbers I can see no reason for that at all other than heightened 'alert' due to the ongoing media campaign against Labour.
Yeah, hopefully people are being called out for their antisemetic views more, rather than them being more prevalent (or more public). I hope you are right.
EDIT: No, wrong episode. I’m sure they did it in the Summer.
It is the right episode… just got to this bit. They boiled it down to about 25% of people still holding an antisemetic view (back in 2015, and the data above suggests that had fallen by 2017).
Wasn’t that about something else entirely?
As I said I'd got the wrong episode. I am sure More Or Less covered AS this summer, I don't recal any of the detail but I do recall is was survey based. Google isn't helping much.
Here's some numbers from 2017 that appear to be based on similar questions:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41241353
Again there must be something missing. I can't belive that 25pc of use are a) Anti Semetic, b) Willing to pretty much admit that to a stranger on the phone.
...and then at the same time they conclude were one of the least Anti-Semetic countries!
Willing to pretty much admit that to a stranger on the phone.
Again, it’s because they think their views are not antisemetic!
Take our example in this thread…
‘Chase money’ tick
‘Too much power in the media’ tick
But say they are “unlikely” to be antisemetic.
It is the right episode… just got to this bit.
If they mention a telephone survy then it could well be. Scary that what I remember as a very recent summer (In my recollection I was driving in daylight) would have been a winter 4 years ago!
Kelvin:
Well, we have one handy example in this very thread. Unless it’s been deleted. The poster even went on to claim that it’s “unlikely” they are antisemitic, despite posting antisemitic nonsense. That there is the problem.
In fairness shouldn’t you perhaps quote what they said, as I don’t remember it being that clear cut. And you appear to be suggesting that the person is anti-Semitic, who made you judge and jury?
who made you judge and jury?
> sigh <
Read and judge for yourself.
I’m out of here.
Just perhaps a lot of jewish people own large companies,which Mr Corbyn will be hopefully taxing more, to pay for more services that need more help. They have a huge tax bill looming and are coordinating a huge uprising against him, supported by the media…
who made you judge and jury?
> sigh <
Read and judge for yourself. I’m out of here.
Just perhaps a lot of jewish people own large companies,which Mr Corbyn will be hopefully taxing more, to pay for more services that need more help. They have a huge tax bill looming and are coordinating a huge uprising against him, supported by the media…
I read that, perhaps naively as ‘some owners of large companies...’ and the Jewish part of the statement as poorly worded speculation. Having never been on the receiving end of hate speech it is perhaps difficult for me to see things the same way as you, but it does not appear as clear cut as your assertion that the poster is anti-Semitic.
It's the implications in it, it's implying that Jews are well off, own businesses, don't like paying taxes and control the media.
All of which are good old-fashioned anti semetic tropes.
I think I’m doing a worse job than usual of posting clearly/coherently, so it should probably be me who takes time out. Apologies for any offence.
A party the size of Labour – 500,000or so members is going to have its fair share of dimwits and undesirables. You can’t vet them all,
I joined the Labour party a few years ago and didn't get asked any questions about whether I was a racist. Once a member I could spout all sort of racist shit wherever I wanted. The Labour party issue is that I should have be ejected if I did so. No if, no buts - it is not a human right to be a member of a political party so just cancel the membership immediately.
Not sure if this happens but guessing it doesn't.