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Wholly agree that in an ideal world, Anti-Semitism and all other forms of racism (often downplayed) should not be tolerated
However:
a) Why is Labour the only party targeted in this way?
b) Why are leaders such as Ephraim Mirvis not ensuring zero tolerance of Zionist extremism?
c) Why has there been no political outcry, or media coverage of Israeli interference in UK politics?
I think Maajid Nawaz summed up the situation pretty well in this series of tweets;
https://twitter.com/maajidnawaz/status/1192479519929774082?lang=en
The average person could probably criticise israel all day and all night without being antisemitic.
(Just as they could criticise hamas all day and night with out being anti-muslim).
The fact that many people have such a difficulty with such a simple task is telling in itself.
The fact that they continually get away with it in the labour party makes it institutional.
Just ask yourself, if magic grandad ("he'll talk to anyone") really wants peace in the middle east (or wanted it in NI) why does he only ever talk to one side?
The whle thing is a purtely invented slur to attack Corbyn. Its blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain
It has been prominently and persistently asserted that there is a ‘crisis’ of antisemitism in the Labour Party. The charge-sheet comprises three main allegations: that antisemitism in Labour is widespread, that it has become institutionalised, and that elected party leader Jeremy Corbyn is himself an antisemite.
This last claim—a recent invention even in the context of the ‘Labour antisemitism’ campaign—is the most tenuous, flying as it does in the face of Corbyn’s entire documented political career. From April 1977, when he helped organise the defence of Jewish-populated Wood Green from a National Front rally;[1] to the 1980s, when he headed Anti-Fascist Action and was arrested protesting apartheid in South Africa;[2] to June 2015, when he worked with antifascists to prevent a neo-Nazi march on Golders Green;[3] to his first day as Labour Party leader, when he spoke at a demonstration in support of refugees[4]—throughout his political life, Jeremy Corbyn has been a dedicated and principled anti-racist campaigner.
The Jewish Socialists’ Group recalls that it has ‘worked alongside Jeremy Corbyn in campaigns against all forms of racism and bigotry, including antisemitism, for many years’.[5] From the other end of the political spectrum, distinguished British Jewish historian Geoffrey Alderman observes that, ‘[a]s a matter of fact, Jeremy Corbyn has an impressive demonstrable record of supporting Jewish communal initiatives’.[6] John Bercow, the Jewish former Conservative MP and Speaker of the House of Commons, testifies that, having known Corbyn over two decades, he has ‘never detected a whiff of antisemitism’ about him.[7] Joseph Finlay, one-time Deputy Editor of the Jewish Quarterly and founder of several grassroots Jewish organisations, noted in 2018:
Many people at the heart of the Corbyn team, such as Jon Lansman, James Schneider and Rhea Wolfson are also Jewish. Ed Miliband, the previous party leader, was Jewish (and suffered antisemitism at the hands of the press and the Conservatives). I have been a member for five years and, as a Jew, have had only positive experiences. . . . Jeremy Corbyn has been MP for Islington North since 1983—a constituency with a significant Jewish population. Given that he has regularly polled over 60% of the vote (73% in 2017) it seems likely that a sizeable number of Jewish constituents voted for him. As a constituency MP he regularly visited synagogues and has appeared at many Jewish religious and cultural events. . . . Whenever there has been a protest against racism, the two people you can always guarantee will be there are Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell. . . . The idea that Britain’s leading anti-racist politician is the key problem the Jewish community faces is an absurdity, a distraction, and a massive error.[8]
The Tories and Lib Dems have at least one ex general election candidate each who has recently been suspended. Their tweets etc. were quite unacceptable and revealed clear antisemitic tendencies.
The Tories in particularly have a clear anti-Islam problem.
JC hasn't always been the most pro-Israel, and various figures have been expelled from the Labour party for far less than the recent Tory/Lib Dem expulsions were based on.
I find it strange how various former Labour MPs had crises of conscience with regard to "institutional antisemitism" at key political moments.
Of course it goes without saying that there are undoubtedly antisemites in the Labour party, which must be tackled. But that's very different from JC being antisemitic or allowing/encouraging/being responsible for antisemitism in the party.
I suspect that all minorities would be safer under a JC Labour government than any Tory government, let alone a BJ one.
At best he’s shown complete indifference to the whole issue, so he’s hardly helped himself. But then I get the impression, he’d rather lose the election and be ‘right’ than win and compromise anything. Whereas the Tories only care about winning.
See, also, Brexit.
The whle thing is a purtely invented slur to attack Corbyn. Its blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain
Well, the EHRC may as well close the investigation then. Move along, nothing to see here.
FFS.
If it was any other minority, and any other party...
Jeremy Corbyn has been MP for Islington North since 1983—a constituency with a significant Jewish population. Given that he has regularly polled over 60% of the vote (73% in 2017) it seems likely that a sizeable number of Jewish constituents voted for him.
This is factually incorrect. Islington North is not a particularly Jewish area, and it has an electorate of 70,000. There are only 260,000 Jews in the entire country across all ages (some of whom will not be able to vote) so there can't possibly be enough in Islington to make the assumption he has ever been supported by a 'significant Jewish population'.
I can assure you North London Jews have not been voting for him in any numbers from actually talking to real people, not reading the press.
I'm sure I read on STW recently that if a black person finds comments directed towards them offensive and racist, then a white person hasn't really got the right to tell them they are wrong to find those comments offensive and racist. Does that apply to the people that have been victims of the alleged and perceived offensive abuse and threats thrown at them by Labour Party members?
footflaps
Blair and Campbell knew they couldn’t win with the entire press machine against them and went to great lengths to get most of them on side.
Those great lengths moved the party into Tory territory though, so why bother voting for Tory Lite when you can get the full cream proletariat crushing Tories?
To line up Blair with a nice banking job post politics?
Blair privatised more than any Tory in the 80s or 90s would have dreamed of. And consequently lined himself up for a series of high paid low work positions.
I'm absolutely sure the only reason the entire billionaire owned press machine is anti-Corbyn is that he isn't one of them, and he can't be bought. It might be his downfall, but it might make him a stick in the spokes of the capitalist greed machine. (and no, I wouldn't do things the same as him, not even sure who I'll vote for yet.)
Does that apply to the people that have been victims of the alleged and perceived offensive abuse and threats thrown at them by Labour Party members?
No the same rules don't apply for Jews because they are somehow different - a lot of people seem to be willing to give the people who come up with the rubbish the benefit of the doubt - god knows why, it is absolutely clear from their double standards they are a bunch of anti-Semites.
This place shows itself to be a cesspit of bigotry, just like the Labour party, whenever anything about Jews come up for discussion.
offensive abuse and threats thrown at them by Labour Party members?
You really would think with this co-ordinated media attack on Corbyn, victims would be able to name names, give quotes and dates. It hasn't happened. Could you imagine what the press would do with any real evidence? If the LP was institutionally anti-semitic it's a strange case of self-flagellation electing so many jewish MPs down the years. Why would they do that?
Claiming 'offence' is a lazy but aggressive way of trying to shut down opposing ideas.
Cobyn has been endorsed by:
And of course, the now defunct Daily Stormer
So if he isn't anti-semitic actual Nazis aren't picking up on it as well as you'd think they might.
Does that apply to the people that have been victims of the alleged and perceived offensive abuse and threats thrown at them by Labour Party members?
Absolutely of course it does. But we're not talking about victims of Labour party members as individuals, are we? In fact, we're not talking about the opinions of all Jews. We're talking about the opinions of one Jew. Several Jews disagree with this person. None that I'm aware of (and nobody on here, as far as I can tell) is suggesting that people who are victims of antisemitism are not. But that's a different matter from whether the Labour party is institutionally antisemitic, and further whether that is because JC has allowed or encouraged it. I imagine there are pockets of antisemitism in the Labour party and particularly in Momentum, but I don't for a minute believe JC will support them.
I imagine many Jews who have links to Israel (certainly this includes the chief Rabbi) dislike his intention to distance the UK from the Israeli state and it's illegal (according to the UN) acts in Gaza. This is understandable (Hamas's stated aim is to destroy the Israeli state!), but doesn't make them right, nor the Israeli government's acts legal. On the other hand, it still doesn't make him or his party antisemitic.
So if he isn’t anti-semitic actual Nazis aren’t picking up on it as well as you’d think they might.
I’m sorry. But what a monumentally stupid thing to say. There will be things that Boris Johnson and Vladimir Putin agree upon, but it doesn’t make them the same (Although I’m willing to bet they are considerably closer in ideology than Corbyn and Griffin FFS). What a pathetically transparent attempt at a blatant smear.
I’m sorry. But what a monumentally stupid thing to say. There will be things that Boris Johnson and Vladimir Putin agree upon, but it doesn’t make them the same. What a pathetically transparent attempt at a blatant smear.
Err, the Nazi's aren't endorsing Corbyn's views on his prize winning marrows.
Err, the Nazi’s aren’t endorsing Corbyn’s views on his prize winning marrows.
No. Griffin tweeted that;
Right now NOTHING is more important than resisting the psychotic rush to WW3 of Boris and the neocons
And even a broken c(l)ock is right twice a day.
Get a grip. Let’s face it, if a neoNazi fascist potato head is criticising our current PM for being a little too aggressive and warmongery, there’s probably something a little wrong with the current picture.
Get a grip. Let’s face it, if a neoNazi fascist potato head is criticising our current PM for being a little too aggressive and warmongery, there’s probably something a little wrong with the current picture.
Go on, quote David Duke.
In your own time.
a) Why is Labour the only party targeted in this way?
It isn’t.
The public and press have vocally “turned against” (by which we really mean asked pertinent questions of) people of all political persuasions where they have been found lacking when it comes to prejudice, especially where it looks hypocritical when compared to their party’s aims.
Farron - gay rights vs “It’s a sin”.
May - British Citizens born elsewhere in the commonwealth.
Johnson - letter box and bum boy “journalism”.
Being some recent examples.
White US racists have described themselves as 'white zionists' because presumably they'd like to see apartheid laws in the US. I doubt very much that would harbour much affection for people of the jewish persuasion.
Last month it was Kick racism out of football...
This month it's the Labour Party.
It's as if people are missing the bigger picture here or have an agenda.
Some more support for Nick Griffin to his https://twitter.com/nickgriffinbu/status/1144323980792344576?lang=e n">good mate Corbyn
Word of advice to #JeremyCorbyn - if #BorisJohnson delivers #Brexit , Labour will be crushed anyway. If the Tories flunk it, you'll be in power anyway. So just expel all these pro-Zionist traitors and at least have a clean, radical party.
Nick really does seem to be confused about Corbyn's real views. Like most of us.
Go on, quote David Duke.
In your own time.
I can’t, because I won’t give that Tory mouthpiece my money. However, IT’S. NOT. NEWS. It’s a smear.
Just like the fact the Tommy Robinson endorses Boris Johnson isn’t news either. It’s just useful smear fodder to the so inclined, and attention seeking from the aforementioned pathetic racists. (And it works though, eh?)
I was thinking about this recently. 4 or 5 years ago you couldn't move for stories about the plight of Palestine. Now seems far quieter. Has it all been resolved????
It's as if the media landscape has lurched somewhat right. Surely I'm imagining it.
Kelvin the tories with their blatent racism and islamophobia have not been called out in the same way at all. It gets far less attention that the labour anti semitism claims
Ever since Corbyn was elected leader the right wing press and the tories have been looking for an attack line
firstly they tried " communist" it didn't damage Corbyn and it didn't stick
then they tried " terrorist supporter" - that did not stick either
then they tried "antisemite" that stuck better so its been hammered.
It’s getting fun now - the Muslim council has come out against the Conservatives. Lovely stuff.
Ever since Corbyn was elected leader the right wing press and the tories have been looking for an attack line
firstly they tried ” communist” it didn’t damage Corbyn and it didn’t stick
then they tried ” terrorist supporter” – that did not stick either
then they tried “antisemite” that stuck better so its been hammered.
For what it’s worth, this is my take too.
It’s alright … Corbyn is shutting this all down on TV … right now …
Oh god… sorry is the hardest word.
He say he’s “toughened up” procedures in “recent months”… he only has to say that he’s sorry for any previous leniency towards antisemitic activity within the party… and that things have changed and he personally will check that keeping a tougher stance on such behaviour will continue.
It’s alright … Corbyn is shutting this all down on TV … right now …
Yep, apparently it's a huge cock up and he's not an antisemite, so we can close the whole issue now, including any reforms they promised to tackle antisemitism as they're not needed at all. Absolutely not. Nothing to see here.
Andrew Neil doesn’t like letting politicians speak does he.
Andrew Neil is a tit.
It’s Anti Israel, that’s all.
“fabricated” - “zero evidence” - hard to take a video with those claims seriously
I find the whole situation frustrating and intriguing.
Isreal sits in a very precarious position, surrounded by countries that hate it, and the Isreali strategy for dealing with this has been aggression.
Their strength in the Middle East is very heavily dependent on having the support of strong countries such as the US and the UK. They lobby the hell out of politicians in these countries to keep this support in place.
Corbyn has a long and consistent record of supporting the Palestinian cause, and in doing this sits at odds with Israel. Corbyn becoming PM would be very bad news for Israel, thus Israel does all it can to stop that happening.
Muddying the waters between antisemitism and antozionism is one way of doing this. The more people lose sight of the difference the more Corbyn can be painted as an anti semite.
Genuine question: why doesn’t he, or why can’t he, say that then?
Why can’t he say, in an interview like last night, that his views on Israel are ‘X’ but his views on Jewish people and their beliefs are ‘Y’?
Because he will be attacked as an anti semite for doing so
A part of the definition used for anti semitisim is " denial of the right of the jewish people to self determination" ( paraphrased) so using that definition any critism of Israel will be taken as a deinal of that self determination and thus anti semetic
its a " have you stopped beating your wife yet" question. No answer will satisfy
"I don't beat my wife".
Seems easy enough to me. But that's a simple question with fixed goalposts.
I see the Heil are now going after the SNP for wanting to enable Labour.
TJ,
I've seen the stuff that people have tweeted, the pictures and tropes they've shared on social media, and the support for proudly genocidal organisations that they've proglumated. There may be cases where its all a bit "is the phrase jungle drums racist?", and theres room for doubt, or worry about intent, but most of it is pretty blatant, deliberate, unapologetic, and stuff that most people would hesitate to say about any other race.
As a corollary, I've also seen massive criticism of the leaders, governments and political systems of hungary, turkey & china all over the web for the last few months, but no large scale distribution of racism against people from those countries (at least in the circles I read in).
Why is Israel different? There are people out there who will take any criticism and paint it as antisemitism, but the reaction to that should be to be careful and directed, not to start sharing tropes about global cabals, blood libels and pushing the population of a country into the sea.
Eat the puddin - and how much of that is official labour policy? is labour candidates? is labour members? Is just nutters on the net?
Lotds o0f support for Corbyn from prominent jews all over social media - how much of their statements gets reported? the chief Rabbi speaks only for a part of British Jews - and the most conservative part at that
“I don’t beat my wife”
Currently.
There needs to be "never had, never will" to cover all bases.