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Can someone point me in the direction of some actual evidence for all of this? I keep hearing the accusation and im trying to decide if this a real issue or a nasty stitch up.
Internet searches and news feeds seem to just be full of people claiming there is anti semitism but i'm struggling to find evidence of actual events or incidents that support these claims. The only thing i can find is the retweeted image of the world bankers that JC apologised for.
And by antisemitism i am not talking about being critical of Israel.
And by antisemitism i am not talking about being critical of Israel.
And that's why you'll struggle to find any..
Nope.
I have found very similar - it confuses me why Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t come out much more strongly condemning it in general but with specific reference to what’s happening in the party it all seems to be based on accusations and it does make you wonder on the motives of those making them.
I think the fact that he was happy to invite antisemitic terrorists and that the Archbishop of Canterbury has supported the Chief Rabbi over his concerns of antisemitism are two powerful pieces of evidence.
There are clear individual examples of anti semitism that have been exposed. Never seen anything more than that and those people have been dealt with. Indeed there is an antisemitic thread running thru the far left some of which is in evidence in the labour party.
But as for Corbyn being anti semetic or institutional antisemetism? I have not seen a shred of evidence
Nope I’ve not seen anything despite what Boris’ friend and ex-conservative party member says.
Oh to be clear as TJ says with exception of individuals who have been dismissed.
As you say it's mostly anti-Zionist rather than anti-Semitic but gets twisted to score some points against Labour (and more specifically JC). He has been a bit politically naive at times though when trying to deal with it.
Solomanda - "invite antisemitic terrorists" What and when?
Fill yer boots Blackflag - https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/labour-party-problems/
There are 2 sided to the discussion. Have a read and tell us what you think?
It tends to be on Twitter. It was directed almost exclusively at Jewish women like Luciana Berger, so it was also wrapped up with a double helping of misogyny too. It's really, really nasty stuff. Rape threats etc
Should have been dealt with. Hasn't been. Still.
This confuses me as well. There are lots of claims of institutional antisemitism but I haven't seen any evidence or examples of it.
I can't decide if it a case of there being no smoke without fire, a cleverly orchestrated smear campaign or just band-wagon jumping.
FuzzyWuzzy
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As you say it’s mostly anti-Zionist rather than anti-Semitic but gets twisted to score some points against Labour
Although stupid comments like "move Israel to the US" don't take much twisting
I was gonna post the exact same OP.
bizarre.
Fuzzywuzzy has it. Corbyn maybe anti-Zionist but anti-Semitic I doubt.
it confuses me why Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t come out much more strongly condemning it in general
It’s a very tricky challenge to deal with; I think it’s been handled badly but I am at a loss as to what would have been better. I feel that the leadership have tried to just ‘not talk about it’ as it doesn’t matter what they say, it will be twisted anyway, and will just add fuel to the fire. Whilst that’s probably true, it’s also true that the strategy has failed.
The weaponisation of accusations of antisemitism is one of the most sinister developments in U.K. politics, and scarily, by polarising viewpoints further can only fan the flames of bigotry of all persuasions. I really do fear for the way things are going.
Nope I’ve not seen anything despite what Boris’ friend and ex-conservative party member says.
Yes, the timing of today's front page headline was certainly a remarkable coincidence with the Labour Party launching their Race and Faith manifesto today....
The Tories doing what they do best, winning elections at all and any cost.
Of course the conservatives are squeaky clean.
Can someone point me in the direction of some actual evidence for all of this? I keep hearing the accusation and im trying to decide if this a real issue or a nasty stitch up.
Labour's own report into it is a helpful read.
There are various recommendations, which I'm sure Labour will have rushed to implement in the three years since its publication...
it confuses me why Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t come out much more strongly condemning it in general
At best he's shown complete indifference to the whole issue, so he's hardly helped himself. But then I get the impression, he'd rather lose the election and be 'right' than win and compromise anything. Whereas the Tories only care about winning.
Labour’s own report into it is a helpful read.
That would be the one where the author was paid with a life peerage whilst the ink was still drying....
NB She was excellent at Liberty but accepting 'payment' for that report so soon after was a blindingly stupid move for an ex-lawyer, sort of thing you expect to see in a 'banana republic'.
Only semites should be allowed to reply to the OP. The rest of us just aren't qualified to answer.
Should have been dealt with. Hasn’t been.
This has been a gift to the other parties ,and as V8 said...
There is now a weaponization of any antisemitism accusations.
Perfect timing to keep it all bubbling away during election and Brexshit.
Does making sexist and racist remarks on Twitter make you a member of the Labour Party?
Banana Republic?
Are you suggesting that countries that export bananas are somewhat corrupt?
Only semites should be allowed to reply to the OP. The rest of us just aren’t qualified to answer.
Scotsplaining.
Does making sexist and racist remarks on Twitter make you a member of the Labour Party?
No, because being a Tory precludes you from joining the Labour Party.
Are you suggesting that countries that export bananas are somewhat corrupt?
I think it refers to bananas that lack a moral compass.....
Only semites should be allowed to reply to the OP. The rest of us just aren’t qualified to answer.
Is this a joke?
A) This is STW, being ‘qualified’ has never precluded anyone from voicing an opinion, and
B)We are all human*. That’s all the qualification that’s needed to damn bigotry, whatever the flavour.
*Chewkw I’m not sure about, but we should give him the BOTD.
The EHRC should be able to report immediately if there's no evidence.
Right?
I think it refers to bananas that lack a moral compass…..
Oh I think I know that film. Has it got ice bears in it?
The EHRC should be able to report immediately if there’s no evidence.
Right?
They're waiting to be offered a life peerage....
That took me too long Scotroutes.
That would be the one where the author was paid with a life peerage whilst the ink was still drying….
I recommended it in that context - as long as you read it with the idea that it paints the most favourable picture possible, you'll be fine. The truth may be somewhat worse, but it certainly won't be any better. And the report still highlights a significant problem.
Also, Corbyn enthusiastically endorsed it at the launch while somehow managing to liken the relationship between Jews and the State of Israel to that of Muslims and Isis.
Still not sure whether, three years on, he's actually fully implemented it though.
Thanks a lot for pointing me toward some stuff inc the Chakrabati report.
Seems a lot of accusations and opinion rather than specific evidence (the bit i'm looking for). I get that there are some wobblyheads on the far left that seem to prioritise Israel over other state human rights issues and that the Jewish / Zionist issue is a bit too easily muddled and that comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is blatantly offensive. Is this what it really is rather than attacks on Jews for being Jews? or is there more?
The
Toriesdoing what they do best, winning elections at all and any cost.I think you’ll find this is for all parties.
Right, fek it I am sick to the back teeth of this disingenuous claptrap repeated by the press about JC. My wife's family are Jewish and deeply socialist, they love JC, know him to be a committed humanitarian and not in any way anti-Semitic. Just because you don't agree with what is happening in Israel DOESN'T MAKE YOU ANTI-SEMITIC,
only a truly ignorant or twisted person would make that assumption. The problem is JC is a decent man and won't use the same dirty tricks and join in with the smear campaign that his opponent's and detracters do.
Okay, do you get it.
Unless you are massively wealthy, have private healthcare and have no social conscience you should not vote for the Tories.
There is a phrase for that: “White Wash”
It is highly imperfect, but it shows the low-water mark of actual evidence of anti-semitism in the party (as requested by the OP), and it doesn't say there is no problem, it says there is definitely a problem, and details how to start fixing it.
Can someone point me in the direction of some actual evidence for all of this? I keep hearing the accusation and im trying to decide if this a real issue or a nasty stitch up.
The answer is yes, according to the Labour Party itself.
What the report doesn't address is whether senior Labour figures, including Corbyn, are directly or indirectly responsible for the toxic environment described in the report. And that will always be a matter of opinion, possibly coloured by political animus.
The
Toriesdoing what they do best, winning elections at all and any cost.I think you’ll find this is for all parties.
No, I think JC would rather lose the election and not compromise on anything than compromise and win. They certainly have ignored all the basics which Blair and Campbell used to win three elections in a row. E.g. everyday I walk to the Coop for a sandwich for lunch and see a whole shelf of papers with anti-Corbyn headlines every single day. Pissing off the entire media machine before you start an election campaign is certainly a 'bold' move. Blair and Campbell knew they couldn't win with the entire press machine against them and went to great lengths to get most of them on side.
Blair and Campbell knew they couldn’t win with the entire press machine against them and went to great lengths to get most of them on side.
By not challenging the status quo.
If you want to drive the agenda that Labour are pushing for (a far more equal society) then that means bumping up tax and clamping down on tax avoidance so the owners of the majority of the press were never going to back him.
that the Archbishop of Canterbury has supported the Chief Rabbi over his concerns of antisemitism are two powerful pieces of evidence.
Two people whose whole careers are founded on lies they repeat daily
footflaps
Blair and Campbell knew they couldn’t win with the entire press machine against them and went to great lengths to get most of them on side.
Those great lengths moved the party into Tory territory though, so why bother voting for Tory Lite when you can get the full cream proletariat crushing Tories?
And if anti-semitism is voicing repugnance for what Israel is doing in Palestine, then I'm a full blown anti-semite.
Only semites should be allowed to reply to the OP. The rest of us just aren’t qualified to answer.
Exactly this, white christian background main stream men aren't equipped to judge subtleties in racism. A simple example is a white man always mentioning to a Jewish person why can't they eat Pork, but they never question other people with food requirements (eg: vegetarians). On face value their questioning seems innocent but the repetition and targeting makes it racist. Clever racists are able to ensure their comments are subtle enough to only be offensive to the minority and remain undetected. Much like inviting terrorists, (be it Hamas or the IRA).
Solomanda – “invite antisemitic terrorists” What and when?
You're not doing a good job of pretending to be ignorant.
Two people whose whole careers are founded on lies they repeat daily
That comment makes you unsympathetic and unqualified to comment.
Those great lengths moved the party into Tory territory though, so why bother voting for Tory Lite when you can get the full cream proletariat crushing Tories?
Surely that's better than just losing an election and changing nothing?
So far Blair and Campbell have won 3/3 GEs. JC and Seamus Milne are at 0/1 and heading for 0/2.
You could roll back Austerity without making it blindingly obvious you're going after the super rich, who own all the media companies. They'll do everything in their power to stop you which looks like it will cost Labour yet another GE.