[Closed] Android apps? (vs iPhone...)

You need an app for that.

Um nto really sure what the point of the question is 🙂 Is this so you can decide whether to get an Android or Iphone? Preyy sure there are good and bad apps of varying value and quality for both platforms 😀

To be fair the point of the question is irrelevant. Just wondered if people have experience of apps on both platforms and how they compare in general...?

Just wondered if people have experience of apps on both platforms

If reading this forum has taught me anything its your either android or apple.

Now pick a side!

The apple apps are of a better quality, as in they look and feel better, but I think this is mainly due to the apps for android currently being stored on the phones internal memory only, which restricts the developers to keeping the size of the file as low as possible. The android apps are in the main very good in terms of the info or service they provide, and once the 2.2 (froyo) updates start rolling out (this update will mean the apps can be saved to external memory) the developers will be able to make the apps as big as they like.

Lots of iphone ports, but less polished.

Lots of typically open-source stuff, crap UIs, half the features "to be finished later".

Lots of spyware as there's no approval process to get things in the store.

I've fiddled with an iphone and own a Desire. There's not much difference, really. The variability of app quality within a platform is greater than the difference between apple & android

i-phone - loads of apps, many good but not many free
Android - loads (but less) of apps, some good, loads free

The iPhone has far more apps provided by the recognised software and service providers. E.g if you browse a few websites, it's likely you'll find far more offering "Download your iPhone app here" and far fewer offering the same for Android.

If it's true that many iPhone app developers are switching to Android becuase of politics, then this may well swing the other way in the next 12-24 months.

As has been said already, iPhone apps tend to be "better" and more polished.

The app store is definetly one place apple has the advantage. There's more apps simply because there are more users. It's much easier to get an app out on the android market though, so hopefully once developers realise the potential, it'll take off quickly.

i-phone - loads of apps, many good but not many free
Android - loads (but less) of apps, some good, loads free

To quantify that, according to appolicious.com around 57% of Android Apps are free and around 28% of iPhone apps.

Though obviously the total number of apps at each means the App Store has a lot more free apps.

See also the figures at:
http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2010/02/25/report-app-stores-compared-store-growth/
which reports on a study comparing the various app stores.

"Lots of spyware"

Cobblers. Name one.

I've got an Android device and my OH has an iPhone, so I'm actually in a position to compare like for like. I am biased of course, because I prefer the Android's openness to Apple's control, but I'll try and give a fair comparison here.

Typically, "there's an app for that" tends to be true for the iPhone. On Android there tends to be a choice from a number of 'apps for that,' but this can be a double-edged sword as it often means that some of the choices are crap.

I've found that free apps are a lot more common on the Android; I've bought two apps total for my phone, OH has bought loads.

In terms of quality, which was the OP's question, I find that it varies. Apple apps tend to be well polished, because the ones that aren't never get released. Android apps can be better than their Apple counterparts, or can be worse, depending on the priorities of the developer. The open nature of Android means that you generally see both ends of the scale, but the inbuilt voting / review mechanism in the Market means that it's usually fairly straight-forward to sort the good from the bad.

In all honesty, if you're trying to choose between platforms, I don't think that quality of apps is a huge deciding factor. I'd say it's more pressing to choose between "it just works" and "I've got a lot more freedom but might have to fiddle about a bit".

Do Android phones run Flash Player?

I can see the argument against the restrictive nature of Apple's Apps policy but surely it does give some sense of security that an open platform will always struggle to give?

I don't own either so have no axe to grind just asking an open couple questions.

Typically, "there's an app for that" tends to be true for the iPhone. On Android there tends to be a choice from a number of 'apps for that,'

Eh?? How is that remotely possible when the App Store has seven times as many apps available?
(150,000 vs 19,897 from that article I linked, though no doubt the numbers have changed since then)

I've found that free apps are a lot more
common on the Android; I've bought two apps
total for my phone, OH has bought loads.

Yep, from that article free apps are twice as common on Android, but App Store has far far more free apps.

Also remember a pretty large portion of the "paid" apps on App Store are only 59p.

I'd say it's more pressing to choose between "it just works" and "I've got a lot more freedom but might have to fiddle about a bit".

+1 definitely.

If you want an open-platform that anyone can write and release apps on, without requiring approval by some shadowy body, then Android is your man.

Conversely if you just want things to work properly and you don't like messing about with stuff then I'd swing towards iPhone.

Hhmm.

GF signed up for a deal and received the HTC wildfire, last weekend.

I've a Diamond touch 2.

Crickey that Android thingy is annoying, aint it ?.

The phone didn't even have a file manager, so when [b]I[/b] got promoted to household IT geek and tasked with migrating files, photos and ringtones from old phone to new one, it was a real PITA.
I can't even select her own message alert tone, the phone wont see it, she has to use one of the embedded tones. Its like going backwards 10 years.

Loaded Astro file manager; Total waist of time, caused the phone to hang.
Loaded OI file manager; The thing crashes or won't write to certain areas of the phone memory.

I'm not a massive phone expert, but seems to me that this [i]Theres an app for that[/i] fashion seems to have let the manufs off the hook for offering phones that do what you want them too.
Instead the people in the shop will just tell you to get on Android market, yadda, yadda, and sort it yourself.

I mean, come on, just a file manager to moving your photos about and ringtones, etc. Its basic stuff. Or perhaps a shell out to the underlying windows mobile just to get to all the settings.

My old Diamond 2 is a kinda half-way house. Not full Android, so not as slick and pretty, but at least I can arrange my files as I want them and load the SatNav and Memory Map that I have. Its not the best phone in the world (think I still prefer my previous phone, HTC Touch cruise) but at least I can configure it as I want it.

I don't think the theres even the Sync software for the wildfire.

If this is Android, then I'm not impressed.

Sentenced to having to search out the good apps from the poor ones, while not bleeding a load of dollars doing so, isn't what people should be left to, imo.
🙁

The contract she got was fairly good, imo, but if I go for the same deal, I'll be selling on, the wildfire with Android, BNIB.

S

The Android security model is excellent. When you go to install an application, the installer knows exactly what aspects of access to, and control over your phone the application uses. You are presented with this before the app installs, so if some basic fart app comes up saying it needs access to your address book or Wi-Fi controls, you know it's malicious. You can even review the access rights each time the application is updated.

Then comes portability. I have paid for a grand total of three application on the Android market. I can now use these applications on any Android phone from any vendor for as long as I like. I can even install Android on a virtual machine or port it to another device and use my applications there. With Apple you will be able to use your apps on their products only, as long as they allow you to. You are vendor locked, and your investments may not even run on other platforms from the very same vendor.

> "Lots of spyware"
Cobblers. Name one.

Sorry, but the price of no having a vetting process is the occassional malicious app:

thousands of applications available on this market are granted permissions that have the potential of placing the mobile device, sensitive user data and carrier networks at risk.
-- http://threatcenter.smobilesystems.com/?p=1887

Lots of spyware as there's no approval process to get things in the store.

Er, how about the users own approval process?
Every android application has to explicitly request permissions at install for phone features. If you install, for example, a picture viewer and it requests access to your contacts and internet access, and you continue to install it they surely you get what you deserve?

Plus, apple doesn't check the source code of apps, only the functionality and content, so malicious code can easily be built into apps with hidden (say until a certain date) malicious functionality.

If you install, for example, a picture viewer and it requests access to your contacts and internet access, and you continue to install it they surely you get what you deserve?

This just in: hackers lie!

Lets say I create a mapping application. I might request the "Fine Location" and "Internet" permissions.

Seems fair enough? I need the location to put you on the map and the internet access to stream map tiles.

Cool. Now I can also use this app to track your position and upload it to the net without your permission. Thanks.

Then maybe I'll add a feature where you can easily navigate to the address of your stored contacts. So I'll need the "Contacts" permission. Seems reasonable.

Nice, now I can upload all your contact's personal details to any site I like. Thanks again.

There's more apps simply because there are more users.

Although apparently Android is selling more than Apple now in the US, and it is hard to see it not happening over here given how wide a range of Android phones there are nowadays, with even more coming out, compared to 2 or 3 models of iPhone.

It's much easier to get an app out on the android market though, so hopefully once developers realise the potential, it'll take off quickly.

Yeah, probably true. I think there's still a question as to how many people will buy expensive apps on Android, with so many having free or ad-supported versions, which might mean slightly less polished apps sometimes, but then there is something to be said for lots of functional but free apps over very polished but expensive apps - I haven't had to pay for an app yet on mine. Android is a hell of a lot easier and nicer to develop for, and much easier to distribute apps too.

Joe

Still don't change the fact that Manufs should provide a basic suite of software on their phones, which allow the user to access the phone's capability.

Then if the [i]community[/i] want additional apps, for which the phone has the capacity to be used for these apps, then thats where the app markets can step-in.

In this day-n-age any mid to upper range phone should allow the user to add a ringtone and message alert tone.
🙄

S

Edit: [i]Cool. Now I can also use this app to track your position and upload it to the net without your permission. Thanks. [/i]

The GF's phone has a map facility on it, might be "G-Maps".
I got the impression it worked from the GPS antenna, and didn't rely on data connection.

Am I wrong ?....

Joe.

Seems that you might know more about Android apps.

Could you recommend me a good file manager app for the GF's HTC wildfire ?.

Solo

Lets say I create a mapping application. I might request the "Fine Location" and "Internet" permissions.

Seems fair enough? I need the location to put you on the map and the internet access to stream map tiles.

Cool. Now I can also use this app to track your position and upload it to the net without your permission.

Yeah, and you could do exactly the same on the iPhone - there's no way the Apple approval process would know.

The Apple approval process serves two purposes -
1) It makes sure things that completely suck, or just don't work at all don't get onto the iPhone app store, which is good.
2) It makes sure things that compete with Apple, or that do something Apple don't want you to do on their phones, or provide alternative ways to do things that Apple provide (like alternative ways to read email, web etc.) are not allowed.

An interesting example at the moment is swype / shapewriter keyboards, which seem like they may well provide a faster and better text input method for touch screen phones - on Android, they are coming as keyboards that work in all programs, so you can try these supposed better keyboards for everything, email, web, messages etc. whereas on iPhone currently you can just use them in their own notepad apps, as apps aren't allowed to mess with the system like that.

Joe

Seems that you might know more about Android apps.

Could you recommend me a good file manager app for the GF's HTC wildfire ?.

I use 'file manager' by Apollo Software.

Free and seems to work okay.

Or you can just plug it into the PC and mount it as a disk drive to copy stuff across.

Oh yeah, there are apps to let you install custom ring and alert tones, although if you want to bypass them, you can stick them in 'media/audio/ringtones' and 'media/audio/notifications' on the sd card, and they should come up in the list.

For PC sync, there is HTC sync, although I don't sync via PC ever, I just sync everything back to my google account - I've wiped the phone and everything came back okay.

Joe

Yeah, and you could do exactly the same on the iPhone - there's no way the Apple approval process would know.

Possibly. AFAIK we don't know [i]what[/i] the secretive Apple approval process involves. They could well be examining source code line-by-line, and/or they may have automated tools to scan code for malware/spyware type behaviour, and/or they may run apps through some kind of sandbox test to check what they do.

joemarshall - Member
Lets say I create a mapping application. I might request the "Fine Location" and "Internet" permissions.
Seems fair enough? I need the location to put you on the map and the internet access to stream map tiles.

Cool. Now I can also use this app to track your position and upload it to the net without your permission.

Yeah, and you could do exactly the same on the iPhone - there's no way the Apple approval process would know.

+1. Same on any platform really, not just phone platforms.

Incidentally, Google has just released a web based software developer tool for 'non-developers' where people can easily put together their own apps for Android using basic functional 'blocks'.

Building your own apps resolves the problem of course... 🙂

The GF's phone has a map facility on it, might be "G-Maps".
I got the impression it worked from the GPS antenna, and didn't rely on data connection.

I don't know the app, but unless it comes with a complete map of the world built-in then it'll probably get her position from the GPS antenna and the appropriate map tiles from the internet via a data connection.

Solo I use Linda File manager.

You can easily transfer things across though by just plugging it into your pc via your usb cable and dragging photos create folder etc. So if you got all your other halfs stuff off her phone onto your pc you could just drag it all across.

Solo... I've not had any problem with Astro myself, but you could also look into SwiFTP which allows you to set the phone up as an FTP server on your WiFi network, and then you can move bit about quite easily using your PC.

Glenh... I just had a brief look at the AppInventor, and ooooh.. it does look very promising... now to try writing some mapping software using downloaded OS map tiles... :o)

Eh?? How is that remotely possible when the App Store has seven times as many apps available?

Without looking at what those apps are, it's hard to say for sure. I'm basing that comment on situations where I've wanted a specific app, eg a PIM app, I can't immediately think of something useful that's been on one and not the other. There does seem to be a large number of nonsense apps for both platforms, little flash-like demos with miaowing kittens and virtual lightsabers and such, maybe that accounts for some of the slack?

The phone didn't even have a file manager

How many other phones come with file managers?

just a file manager to moving your photos about and ringtones, etc.

Theres an app for that fashion seems to have let the manufs off the hook for offering phones that do what you want them too.

I don't think the theres even the Sync software for the wildfire.

Sentenced to having to search out the good apps from the poor ones, while not bleeding a load of dollars doing so, isn't what people should be left to, imo.

Sorry, but the price of no having a vetting process is the occassional malicious app

Again, name one. See also, duclicsic's post.

Did you read the SMobile security report I linked?

I can't "name one", I don't follow the Android scene, but as I described I could sit down and write such an app tomorrow if I was so inclined, so it is naïve to assume that no one else has.

"Security" based on asking the user for a small set of very coarse permissions is pretty bogus.

I did follow the link, though I didn't read the PDF. Nonetheless, "security concerns" is not the same thing as "lots of spyware," as was originally implied.

I have safety "concerns" every time I cross the road. That doesn't mean I get run over six times a day.

Moreover, you're right, if it's such a massive security hole, it's surprising that it's not been exploited yet. And yet, it hasn't. I wonder what this tells us?

Just had a closer look at the security report. It's produced by a company selling mobile security products. Nice reliable, unbiased source, then.

From the article:

...one in every five applications request permissions to access private or sensitive information that an attacker could use for malicious purposes. One out of every twenty applications has the ability to place a call to any number without interaction or authority from the user. More frighteningly, 29 applications were found to request the exact same permissions as applications that are known to be spyware ... 383 applications were found to have the ability to read or use the authentication credentials from another service or application. Finally, 3 % of all of the Market submissions that have been analyzed could allow an application to send unknown premium SMS messages without the users interaction or authorization.

You may think that is biased but their data is simply from looking at the permissions that the apps request.

Are you telling me that no one actually installs any of these apps because everyone with an Android phone is smart enough to look at the requested permissions and identify all possible security and privacy threats?

Tell me how you would recognise the threat posed by my theoretical trojan map app that I described above?

Oh and if your still dismissive because that security report came from a security firm then you might also want to look at:

[url= http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/186720/malware_android_apps_threaten_mobile_security.html ]"Malware: Android Apps Threaten Mobile Security", PCWorld (Jan 2010)[/url]

[url= http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/android-malware-how-open-too-open-784 ]"Android malware: How open is too open?", InfoWorld (Jan 2010)[/url]

[url= http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/android-malware-fears/ ]"Malware Sneaks Into Android Market", Wired (Jan 2010)[/url]

[url= http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10466230-245.html ]"Malware found on HTC Android phone from Vodafone", CNet (March 2010)[/url]

[url= http://androidforums.com/android-applications/36936-how-safe-find-trusted-apps-avoid-viruses-guide-those-new-android.html ]"How to be safe, find trusted apps, & avoid viruses - A guide for those new to Android", androidforums.com (Jan 2010)[/url]

Joe.

Thanks for that, I shall give your recommendations a go.
😀

I don't think HTC have released a version of their sync software, for the WildFire, yet. I had a look over on their website and got that impression.

Graham_S
[i]I don't know the app, but unless it comes with a complete map of the world built-in then it'll probably get her position from the GPS antenna and the appropriate map tiles from the internet via a data connection.[/i]

Yes, I think you may be correct. I had a quick look at the maps app last night. I'm not sure I'm happy about that method of Navigation, etc.
I mean, she's OK as she has unlimited data connection as part of the package, but the fact that her location might be some how uploaded to wherever, bothers me.
Its a bit big-brother, if your use of data connection SatNav can be monitored.
Still, my version of TomTom won't run on Android, so its more bucks to get a newSatNav package onto her phone.

MaxRay.
Thanks too for that one, I will check that out too.
😉

Cougar.
[i]Conversely, when you get supplied with all these apps that most users probably don't need, we accuse them of being bloatware. Can't win.[/i]

I knew someone would say that, fair point 🙂 but I'm just asking for a phone [u]to come with[/u] what is needed for a user to install a couple of MP3/WAV files, whatever, so that they can keep their unique sounds, etc, etc.
And its still the manufs lightening the load by thinning-out the apps they install, which in turn means that theres less stuff that they need to get working properly on the unit.

[i]How many other phones come with file managers?[/i]

My last four phones. One of those was a nokia, and that was total cr4p, but the others were HTCs.
It was back before Android really got onto all HTC phones.
Hence my now having the Diamond Touch 2. The way I saw it, HTCs phones were all going over to Android and I wanted their most up to date phone, before that happened.
I think theres an Android ROM now for my phone, but I'll not be installing it and then losing the apps I currently have and like.

I prefer to run TomTom Nav, Memory Map, Core player, and other stuff.
Stuff that is established as working, and can be migrated to most any windows phone I may have, for my personal use.
I think Android may also have backwards compatibility, but its losing the windows based apps that deters me.

Since the GF got her phone last weekend, I've had my first experience of these app-markets, and I'm not encouraged.

Surely its not beyond the wit of man to sort Android to run apps from the windows phones. Especially as I believe Android is running on windows mobile anyway.

Thanks for the recommendation on the file manager, its another I shall check-out.
😉

In the end, I think all this should be getting easier, not fragmenting and becoming more complex.

In principle, I've no problem with perhaps having phones with less apps onboard, while maintaining the capacity to do more and also keeping a certain degree of backwards compatibility.
And to dove-tail with these phones, app-markets would be fine too, so long as each app available was sure to work as desribed, free or paid for.

Suppose thats a moon-on-a-stick request 🙄

Cheers.
🙂

Solo

Yes, I think you may be correct. I had a quick
look at the maps app last night. I'm not sure I'm
happy about that method of Navigation, etc.
I mean, she's OK as she has unlimited data
connection as part of the package, but the fact
that her location might be some how uploaded to wherever, bothers me.
Its a bit big-brother, if your use of data
connection SatNav can be monitored.

If you are worried then you could use one of the map apps that allow you to download large areas of map in advance, then no live data connection should be required while in use. (also handy when abroad!)

e.g. on the iPhone there is MotionX GPS which lets you pre-load OpenStreetMap and OpenCycleMap maps for free. And MemoryMap which lets you buy and load OS maps.

Android market will doubtless have apps offering the same thing.

Android malware and googles response:

[url= http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/06/exercising-our-remote-application.html ]http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/06/exercising-our-remote-application.html[/url]

Some comments on the android market:
[url= http://nanocr.eu/2010/06/27/googles-mismanagement-of-the-android-market/ ]http://nanocr.eu/2010/06/27/googles-mismanagement-of-the-android-market/[/url]

GrahamS.

Thanks for that 🙂

I guess there will be little hope of avoiding having to trawl through the app-markets universe to find an Android equivalent of the iphone apps you refer to.

So, it would seem this is the future on the [i]Smart-Phone[/i].
Spending hours, searching hi-n-low for stuff you have a use for, or to allow you to run apps you already own on this Android OS.

Pros-n-Cons I suppose.

Ta
🙂

S

Solo... have you tried connecting the phone to a PC as a USB drive and looking on there for the Sync software on the phone itself? That's where they put it on the Desire, and I find it very hard to believe that HTC would do anything different for the Wildfire.

And trawl through the app-market? You do know you can search there don't you? Just type in GPS or maps and you'll get a nice list of different software. It really isn't very difficult you know... 🙂

No problem Solo. Similar apps on Android shouldn't be hard to find as funkynick says.

Oh and by the way, not sure where you got the notion that Android runs on Windows Mobile, but it doesn't. It is a direct competitor of Windows Mobile.

FN.

We did look on android market, but couldn't seem to find a search facility on the pages we saw.

That did seem strange to me at the time, but being new to this apps-market thingy, and with time on the weekend being at a premium, I didn't take it any further.

But I shall try again.

Thanks
🙂

S

i'm surprised you find android more complex than winmo. i think my brick of a phone runs winmo6 or 6.5, and i've had pdas with earlier versions. i'm pretty competent with windows on pcs, but had to install a decent filemanager for winmo ( resco ) to gain access to everything i wanted to on the pdas and phone, and winmo seems slow, and overly complicated to me.
also not sure why you'd worry about the big brother aspect of the sat nav, when your mobile is already pin-pointing your location pretty well through the radio towers that enable it to work as a phone...

[i]also not sure why you'd worry about the big brother aspect of the sat nav, when your mobile is already pin-pointing your location pretty well through the radio towers that enable it to work as a phone...[/i]

I didn't bring my flame-proof suit with me to work today, but I thought that using Mob-Phone signal location data was restricted for use by the authourities only.

Having a private, commercial, company knowing where you are as a consequence of a real-time maps app they've pre-installed on your new phone, I would have classed as being different and not for me.

I'm not sure how all this works, but earlier posts, if I've interpreted them correctly, seem to indicate that because you are uploading your GPS position, in order to receive the correct map, then whomever is providing the map, can tell where you are.

Hhmmm, what can people/companies do with that info ?.

😉

S

I'm not sure how all this works, but earlier posts, if I've interpreted them correctly, seem to indicate that because you are uploading your GPS position, in order to receive the correct map, then whomever is providing the map, can tell where you are.

Yeah roughly. Although only on a per-map-tile basis, and even then it depends slightly on how zoomed in/out you are, screen size of your phone etc. as to how accurate they can be.

Also, on most phones with GPS (even some older ones), they use GPS plus network or wifi location to help with the fix, via a server provided by the phone manufacturer, which means potentially even if you have the maps on your phone, the shadowy 'they' who is providing this (nokia, google, Apple/skyhook etc.) can tell where you are, at least when you start using GPS.

I didn't bring my flame-proof suit with me to work today, but I thought that using Mob-Phone signal location data was restricted for use by the authourities only.

No, it's restricted to people who pay mobile phone companies for it. Although you are supposed to have to opt in for any service using it to track your own mobile phone.

Oh and newer tom-toms might well do this too, I don't know how their live traffic stuff works, but I imagine it might want an idea of where you are?

It basically depends whether you trust Orange / O2 / T-mobile or whoever, more or less than you trust Google or Microsoft or Apple. And also how much you think they will want to do bad things to you personally.

Joe

I found an LED torch app (for the Desire) last night.

Type in a word and it "translates" it onto morse code for the LED.

Can also vary the brightness (it's VERY bright)

SO cool!

Solo - you mention downloading maps and finding a new sat nav for your other half......

Co Pilot is available from Android Market for £25 for UK/Ireland or £50 Europe and stores the map on the sd card.

I found an LED torch app (for the Desire) last night.

Type in a word and it "translates" it onto morse code for the LED.

Can also vary the brightness (it's VERY bright)

SO cool!

LOL! all you need now is an app that will receive and translate back, then you could communicate over large distances, without being physically connected! oh - hang on... 😀

Joe.

Ok, thanks for that, I have been told now 😉

Makes me think I'll just break-out the old navigo a few of us bought and managed to install TTN on, a while back.

Its not that I've anything to hide, but it does seem to grate on me that corporates think that I am there lab-rat to observe as I trawl around the world.

Stumpy01.
Yeah, I'd just been surfing and seen people raving about co-pilot.

Think I'm going to leave it up to her.
I'm just going to load recommended file manager, try to get the flippin tones she wants, to work on it and just hand it back.
The weekend is too short as it is 😉

[i]an app that will receive and translate back, then you could communicate over large distances, without being physically connected! oh - hang on...
[/i]

Yeah, I was just thinking that. I could probably get the app, but I'd not have a clue what was being sent, if I saw someones phone light flashing back at me.

Incidentally. Is Android just a UI for windows mobile ?, or is it a fully different OS for mobiles ?.

😀

S

We did look on android market, but couldn't seem to find a search facility on the pages we saw.

That did seem strange to me at the time, but being new to this apps-market thingy, and with time on the weekend being at a premium, I didn't take it any further.

At least on my phone there's a magnifying glass button you click on and it takes you to a search page. In my experience Google are quite good at this searching thing 🙂

GrahamS - Member
This just in: hackers lie!

Lets say I create a mapping application. I might request the "Fine Location" and "Internet" permissions.

Seems fair enough? I need the location to put you on the map and the internet access to stream map tiles.

Cool. Now I can also use this app to track your position and upload it to the net without your permission. Thanks.

Then maybe I'll add a feature where you can easily navigate to the address of your stored contacts. So I'll need the "Contacts" permission. Seems reasonable.

Nice, now I can upload all your contact's personal details to any site I like. Thanks again.

Apple's not any better:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/06/apple-location-privacy-iphone-ipad.html

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10446402-245.html

http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/18/iphone-spyware-mobilepsy-tech-security-cx_ag_1218mobilespy.html

And didn't Apple pull a couple of apps recently that were collecting a little more information than they really needed? That was something they discovered after the fact - no evidence of any kind of sandbox vetting going on there...

(I don't think the iPhone is inherenly insecure, I'd say the difference between the two platforms is fairly small.)

android has nowt to do with windows at all, no matter how far under the surface you look, unless you're looking back in time, and trying to make connections through xerox i suppose!
it's a different OS completely.

Incidentally. Is Android just a UI for windows mobile ?, or is it a fully different OS for mobiles ?.

The latter. The base OS is actually a flavour of Linux AFAIK.

I'm just going to load recommended file manager, try to get the flippin tones she wants, to work on it and just hand it back.

The easiest way I've found to get a ringtone on my Desire is through the built in music player.

Connect the phone via USB cable and mount as a drive.
Drag and drop your content where you want it.

Fire up the built in music player and play your chosen tune.
While it's playing, press 'menu', 'set as ringtone'.

(I don't think the iPhone is inherenly insecure, I'd say the difference between the two platforms is fairly small.)

The difference is that they use a different model:

Apple uses the model that they check the apps, and once the app gets past Apple, it can do whatever it wants.

Google uses the model that no one checks the apps, but they do tell you what they do (in terms of what they have access to), and if someone gets caught doing something naughty, they revoke apps.

So the secureness of it depends on whether you completely trust Apple's approval process versus whether you bother to read the load of security stuff that the market installer brings up.

Joe

Apple uses the model that they check the apps, and once the app gets past Apple, it can do whatever it wants.

Google uses the model that no one checks the apps, but they do tell you what they do (in terms of what they have access to), and if someone gets caught doing something naughty, they revoke apps.

Not convinced they're that different: Apple certainly checks up on apps after approval - hence the apps getting pulled. And Google has built-in checks, I haven't bothered looking into them but I assume they're similar to the standard Java security model controls.

Cynically, I also think that a lot of Apple's app checking is market and legal orientated, not just user security.

What Gravity-Slave said 🙂

No file manager needed.

Apple uses the model that they check the apps, and once the app gets past Apple, it can do whatever it wants

Don't forget that with iOS4 Apple introduced the ability to shut down either system wide or specific apps location services. As well as showing which apps have been polling your location, so the end user can restrict an app from 'doing whatever it wants' in relation to geo data at least.

[url= http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2010/06/ars-reviews-ios-4-whats-new-and-notable.ars/7
][img] [/img]
[/url]

Apple's not any better

Indeed. I was attempting to counter duclicsic's assertion that "The Android security model is excellent" and Cougar's assertion that there is no malware/spyware on Android. Not trying to paint the iPhone as squeaky clean.

There will always be people who try to circumvent security on both devices, but I do think this is one area that Apple have the slight advantage.

Differences as I see it:

iPhone: all apps through a single distribution point.
Android: apps from marketplace or any developers website.

So Android immediately requires you to make trust decisions about your app source. Is this the real "Super Monkey Ball" or just a copycat app that is malicious.

iPhone: developers must register, sign a contract, and pay a $99 fee.
Android: anyone can develop for free.

So Apple can more easily chase rogue developers and they run the risk of having their license removed.

iPhone: apps are approved by an unknown process, which may or may not involve sandboxing, code inspection, etc
Android: apps just ask the user on installation and user must jydge the security risk.

So hacker/spyware guys must run the unknown risk of their violations being caught before their app even gets to market. On Android they will always get to market.

This difference of closed and tightly controlled versus open and free is one reason folk hate Apple. But it also provided a extra layer of protection and is the main reason that folk say Apple stuff just works.

IMHO Androids best defence is the fact it is open source and seen as the geek's choice. Hacker morals mean that friendly open source typically gets targetted far less big mean corps.

iPhone: all apps through a single distribution point.
Android: apps from marketplace or any developers website.

Most people will download their apps from the Android marketplace - it's the big link that's on the home page of your shiny new phone, I doubt that most people will bother with secondary markets, at least at the moment. At some point presumably Amazon and co. will start selling apps, too - a competitive market and (fairly) reliable user reviews will help.

This difference of closed and tightly controlled versus open and free is one reason folk hate Apple. But it also provided a extra layer of protection and is the main reason that folk say Apple stuff just works

Presumably the iPhone4 antenna issue is just another layer of protection - that malware's not going to phone any premium number when you use the special left hand iGrip 🙂

Presumably the iPhone4 antenna issue is just another layer of protection

Har-de-har, but it is a good example of people being happier attacking a big mean corporation. I doubt the same issue on Android phones would prompt such a vitriolic response (it certainly didn't with the Nexus One).

Apple are holding a press conference tomorrow (Friday) to discuss the antenna issue. No doubt they'll be announcing the new iGlove. 😀

Thanks for the info, esp the OS thing, I was proceeding under the impression that Android was just a UI for WM.

My mistake, thansk for the correction.
🙂

Thanks also for some of the tips. No magnifying button, as far as we can tell (only had the thing a few days), but I will go back and check again.

Cheers.

Solo

(it certainly didn't with the Nexus One).

Eh?
Are you suggesting the N1 has an antenna issue, because I can assure you mine doesn't.

They could be announcing the iDontcare to be honest, just as long as the 4.01 update comes out so I can JB my new, to me, 3GS.

Eh?
Are you suggesting the N1 has an antenna issue, because I can assure you mine doesn't.

That is because it got [url= http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Google-Patches-Nexus-One-3G-Reception-Issue-106698 ]patched[/url].

That's not an antenna issue, that's a radio software issue.
Plus, my N1 never had any reception issues on with any radio software (and I've tested all of them).
The problem only affected t-mobile users in the US as far as I am aware.

Still, it is another example of using end users as beta testers - and none of the major corporations are guilt free here.

That's not an antenna issue, that's a radio software issue.

And Apple claim that their issue looks much worse that it is due to a radio software issue.

The patched N1 still drops around 17-18dB of signal when it is "held wrongly", but no one really cares. The iPhone 4 drops 24dB and everyone freaks regardless of whether they actually own one or not.

Different attitude for different vendors, see?

(and that's not to say there isn't a genuine issue with the iPhone 4 that Apple really need to fix)

The patched N1 still drops around 17-18dB of signal when it is "held wrongly", but no one really cares. The iPhone 4 drops 24dB and everyone freaks regardless of whether they actually own one or not.

(and that's not to say there isn't a genuine issue with the iPhone 4 that Apple really need to fix)

Indeed, from Engadget's experiences it appears that there are some handsets that demonstrate the problem and some that don't.