So, it has come as no surprise to me that my friend is in this situation really if I'm honest. Always a big drinker since years ago but recent years it's slowly changed from 'social' drinker to drinking at home a lot too. Long story but that's the gist of it.
These last few months has seen a big decline really. I saw him around a month ago (they live in France now) and I was quite shocked with how he was. Ended up going to A&E there 2 weeks ago. So we thought, ok his recovery starts here.....
Roll on to 2 days ago, discharged himself and went to a local restaurant for his 'top up'. Hospital hadn't finished all the tests needed to get a full diagnosis and I don't know if he will go back so that they can?
Apparently, he's at home drinking. Wife got rid of all the booze at home so he's getting it from somewhere. I'm hopefully going to see him this week and will give him a few home truths I think.
I feel so sorry for his wife & family going forward, really do but at the end of the day I don't think he will accept his condition & get the needed help but I so so want him too.
Known him for 50 years and loads of great memories.
Sorry for offloading.
It's going to be a long and painful jouney I feel.
Any advice for us all would great thanks.
There is simply nothing you can do. Its an awful addiction and as such until he wants to stop drinking then he will drink.
Do your best but at the end of the day it’s an addiction and the first step has to come from the addict. I was lucky, I managed to get free. The sobriety thread has some links that might help you, help him. Good luck, he’s lucky to have you as a friend.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/off-topic/stw-sobriety-thread/paged/2/#post-13688893
What TJ said. Friend of mine from uni was given an ultimatum by his wife, and he decided to just stop. Had a seizure in the reception of the hospital where he worked (admin role), was told he would have died if it hadn't happened there. Went into rehab for 2 weeks, got sober, lasted about 6 months before relapsing. Went through supervised detox and seems good now - also diagnosed on the autistic spectrum which we could have told him.
But without him wanting to stop because of the ultimatum, he'd never had stopped.
If he's physically dependent then "just stopping" can be fatal. If he wants to stop then he needs to slowly taper off.
If he doesn't want to stop then dosing up on high potency thiamine is a really good idea if he wants a brain left.
My dad was a massive alcoholic for most of my life until he died of alcohol related complications.
Not a single thing his friends or family said or did made even the slightest difference.
Everyone is different but if I was to have my time again, I'd try and address the cause, not the drinking directly.
Oh and just to add, my dad was well aware he had a problem, we told him, he got sacked because of it, his doctors told him and he even admitted it to us himself, but he just didn't want to do anything about it. I'm pretty sure he never expected to be found by his sister, half naked other than being wrapped in a fitted sheet, covered in his own shit, on the kitchen floor, 2 days after he died, no one does, but alcoholism really doesn't give a **** what you think, it's in charge and will fight dirty to win.
Sometimes I think I could have done more but mostly I think he'd have dragged me down with him so despite him being the only parent I had, I had to let him go.
It's a terrible addiction (although I'm not sure you get a good one). An old mate and I lost touch thanks to an ex called Louise. He almost died, had a stroke, was found on the floor of his house with a gangrenous lower leg, which he lost and had complex cardio issues.
He's alive and sober, as far as I know, but looks 20years older than he is and the long term prognosis is not good.
Ive watched a good mate do it over the last 7 years or so and it just get progressively worse and worse. You say to yourself ‘they must hit a point where this all becomes obvious what the solution is’ when they’ve lost another job or had another crisis, but it just doesn’t come. They’ll be in total denial.
Try and help by all means but my advice is to manage your expectations. You’re trying to apply logic where there is none
Good luck! I honestly hope you manage to make a difference
Agree with binners, good luck but it's a rough path back and even then the few folk with an issue that I've known the majority didn't/don't see that they've an issue.
The trick (and hardest thing) is knowing and maintaining your own boundaries, because it feels awful.
I have an extended family member who is showing signs. It’s particularly hard because although it seems obvious to me as a doctor, I’m not sure how much other family members have noticed.
Good luck He's lucky to have a friend like you. I had a friend who died indirectly because of heroin addiction he couldn't get any heroin so broke into a pharmacy and took a mixture of prescription drugs which killed him Along with a few others I tried to help him He genuinely wanted to get off heroin and never brought any to my house. However it's not the time when there's friends or family around it's the time when they are alone and the addiction strikes again. It's also the underlying cause, in my friend case a very traumatic incident which he was unable to recover from..
It's really important to also look after yourself whilst doing your best for your friend So set yourself s limits about what you will do and won't do and give yourself breaks wrecking your own health doesn't help anyone.
Good luck to you and your pal
It's really important to also look after yourself whilst doing your best for your friend So set yourself s limits about what you will do and won't do and give yourself breaks wrecking your own health doesn't help anyone.
Good luck to you and your pal
This is very good advice
Thanks all, really appreciate it. I will read the advice again tomorrow.
Tbh, I not expecting he will listen to me but for my own sake I need to talk to him. If he does fade away and I didn't have 'that' chat with him I will always feel guilty in not doing so.
He's my best mate so he'll have to just deal with what I have to say. I will try to contain my anger/frustration and put things to him directly.
I do agree with podge, he needs to address the issues to get over this.
I have a fair bit going on in my own life so won't be able to visit as much as I'd like to so that might help me a bit in overdoing it but I'll be in touch with his wife & kids (adults now ) to do what I can within reason.
Cheers guys.
We (MrsRNP and I)had a close friend that we tried to help, she eventually hit rock bottom but by then I'd already pulled away as I thought she was going to die and I couldn't help her. She went to AA got herself sorted, cut off any connections to her past. Bumped into her 10ish years later - doing fine, but she is someone in our past.
Thanks for the link wheels, it was a useful read.
I think my visit on Thursday (if i can make it) will be a difficult one but a needed one.
I've tried giving you all the thumbs up emojie but its buggering around.
"Don't ask why the addiction, instead ask why the pain"
Gabor Maté
My cousin's wife moaned to me about him drinking vodka out of a mug in bed. It wasn't the drinking vodka in bed ,it was the fact that it was out of a mug.
They did have his and her's drinks cabinets by their bed though.
Its a hard thing to witness. Just dont try to push a solution on to them and ffs never abandon them.
Thanks again.
I can't abandon him, best mate of 50+ years but I will have a frank conversation with him.
Had a few tears today when his wife text to say she 'thinks' he's giving up.
There's going to be a few visitors for him this week, really hope we can see if he'll change his thoughts but if he can't we'll have to see what happens.
It’s a very difficult thing to deal with when it’s a friend, it’s even more difficult when you’re living with the person, in my case my late partner. She always had a slightly depressive personality, but I was unaware of that when I first met her around 1988. When she popped up on Fb in 2017, and we finally got together, I found out she had a real problem with depression, due to damage from a brain haemorrhage which affected her left arm, and caused headaches, seizures and migraines, so she self medicated. This, I think led to her then relationship breaking down and she had to move back home from Ireland where she’d been living for nearly twenty years.
Having a stable home life helped her quite a bit though, and I was researching treatments using psychoactive medications, like Ketamine, but sadly she suffered a stroke five years ago this month and I lost her. I should also add that she had suicidal thoughts as well.
A year or so after, I discovered that the NHS was going to be running some treatments for depression and dependency using psychoactive medication at five centres, including Exeter and Oxford, which was a bit upsetting, I really believe that if she’d lived that bit longer, she could have really benefited and her life vastly improved with those treatments and therapy.
There’s a lot of research into psychoactive medications and therapy for depression and dependence, and the results are very impressive, a single session apparently lasting around six months!
For anyone who has a family member with these issues, or even a friend, it would be worth researching these treatments and seeing if there’s anything available.
ffs never abandon them.
Sometimes you need to step away from people with severe mental health or addiction problems. You shouldn't let it ruin your own life.
Yes you do. Look after yourself first, so that you can look after others.
Having boundaries doesn’t mean abandoning though. But it can mean not having anything to do with them if they’re continuing to drink or use.
I have to agree with this. Everyone’s got a point where you’ve done what you can and you have to just leave them to it, whatever that is
I had a very good friend who moved away and had mental health issues, where she self-medicated with wine. It got worse and worse and I supported her All I could, but it got ridiculous. She’d get increasingly angry and abusive when she got drunk and she was always drunk. I’d wake up and find incoherent, aggressive, rambling voicemails on my phone, left ant anll hours of the night. Then when she woke up sober, texts expressing regret and apologizing.
I warned her I wasn’t prepared to put up with her using me as a punch bag to lash out at. This person had been a good friend and we went back years but enough was enough. I had got to a point where I didn’t recognise them any more. A good mate who’s intelligent, witty and really good fun was now just a bitter, angry mass of drunken rage. I’d tried to help and support them in many ways, over years, but had had it all thrown back in my face.
This is unfortunately the reality in many cases
So I cut off all contact, blocked her on all devices and means of contact (as I told her I would if the abuse continued) as I had enough other stuff going on in my life without this thankless stress.
There’s a massive amount of guilt as I’m pretty sure the next I’ll hear is when she succeeds in drinking herself to death, which I’m sure she’ll manage before long. I feel sad for her and for what I see as the total waste of her life.
I’m just telling you this, as others have, as you need to go in with your eyes wide open about how this type of thing tends to go
Agsin.., good luck and I hope it works out differently for you
Thanks guys I hear what you're saying.
I've got a few good mates in my life that maybe I'd step away from a bit sooner if they weren't listening but I'm talking about my best mate that I've known since 4 or 5 years of age so I want to do more for him & his family, within reason.
I'm also a carer so have limited time & energy to give but I owe it to him & our friendship to try. I will be going with another mutual friend and one of the kids will be there so we can support each other.
In a way, I'm not expecting him to listen but if he does that will be great. Will see how the day pans out.
Cheers.
A very long time ago i read a passage in a book. And in it it had a description i found so moving, its stayed with me
It was about an alcoholic, and the description was of "family photos, crushed up, then lovingly smoothed out"
It speaks of dilemma, of anger, and joy. Of loss and want.
I have very limited knowledge of alcoholism, but I have watched a few videos from @soberstart42 and he's not escaped yet, in fact I think the last update was that he had received news his liver was damaged and he had no more chances left "my safe level of alcohol is zero"... This was followed by a weird cryptic post... We all think he's drinking again.
It's so sad.
I know I drink too many units sometimes (ref modern assessments of the cumulative risk), but I never think of it outside of the times i decide I want a drink (evenings, in front of my family) Again this is not healthy but I never worry about not having it, so I'm acting on the awareness and trying to just get used to spending less time under the influence.
I realise now how bad it was I was introduced to grass at 15 (and the circumstances surrounding that), but that's another story and this thread isn't about me
There is simply nothing you can do. Its an awful addiction and as such until he wants to stop drinking then he will drink
It pains me to type this but the above is true in my experience. A good mate I'd known since my school days passed away 2 years ago, aged 46 and the offical cause of death was multiple organ failure due to chronic long term alcohol abuse . He'd always liked a drink but also knew where to draw the line and always worked (as a supervisor in a wine bottling plant at one point). Then he got into a relationship with a younger woman who had a far bigger drink problem, which resulted in him going on the sick and them spending all day, every day drinking gin and vodka. She died aged 33 leaving 2 teenage kids and he told several doctors afterwards that he wouldn't stop drinking despite being told he wouldn't be far behind her. I can only hope op's mate makes a different choice
@granny_ring good luck for today. If it helps I have been analysing how I managed to stop drinking and how I have managed to stick successfully to sobriety for the last (almost) two years.
It was my decision to stop drinking, I didn’t tell anyone I was stopping but it was wanting to be around for my grandson that was the initiator.
It’s my disregard for Authority and big business that’s kept my sobriety fire going, covered above in other posts. The huge profits of what is a legalised, poisonous drug that relies on selling us as much as possible, this contempt extends to junk food and gambling companies, just as insidious and damaging to health.
One of my perceived barriers to success was that I really like pubs, however, I can now sit quite happily in a pub with a non alcoholic beer - I do sometimes get quite cross that people who have quite obviously had enough are served more though!
I wish you success and hopefully some approach might trigger a good reaction in your friend.
Good luck mate.
I will give a non gloom and doom story. A female friend of mine was heading down that slippery slope and quite a long way down it. She came to her senses (I am not sure what the trigger was) and went to inpatient rehab and used all the resources available and is now sober for the first time in years.
Alcoholism is sometimes ( often??) a response to other trauma - it was in her case so she has also had therapy to resolve that and changed her life
A lot of sad stories about.... 😢
So the latest today is his wife text saying he didn't want to see anyone and wasn't chatting much at all.
I said we would go and meet her to be of some support to her at least, so if the tunnel is behaving we'll go over to France.
Couple of hours ago my mate replied to my 'straight up' txt from me yesterday with a few expletives.
I was initially shocked but have accepted it's the drink/mental health talking.
Still saddens me though that it's got this far.
Will see what tomorrow brings.
Cheers.
I was initially shocked but have accepted it's the drink/mental health talking.
Unfortunately, I'm afraid it's not.
More positively than others here - I have witnessed a positive outcome at close quarters to this type of situation.
There can be hope.
I was initially shocked but have accepted it's the drink/mental health talking.Unfortunately, I'm afraid it's not.
Care to expand on that please chap?
He's clearly not himself (obviously) so is this the 'new' him from now on in....?
His wife said he's very withdrawn.
Anyway I will hopefully get a better idea tomorrow.
Theres a book. Alcoholics handbook, or AA handbook or something, i forget the name. Its in doctors orders something or other.
Basically is says whats known. as in cant push an alcoholic into sobriety, or how abandoning them is really bad and you must be patient
Googled and found it ...
Alcoholics Anonymous "Big Book" is the foundational text for recovery, outlining the 12-step program. The AA Service Handbook provides guidelines on running meetings, supporting newcomers, and organizing the fellowship. Both are key resources for understanding and practicing AA principles for sobriety.
https://www.aa.org/the-big-book
thank you for posting thisMore positively than others here - I have witnessed a positive outcome at close quarters to this type of situation.
There can be hope.
Care to expand on that please chap?
He's clearly not himself (obviously) so is this the 'new' him from now on in....?
Essentially yes. Alcohol and addiction changes people, and generally makes them pretty selfish. If they're going to recover, then accepting that they're acting selfishly is part of the process. Blaming their behavior on the alcohol and their mental health is a form of denial which can delay recovery. It's common for family and friends to collude in this denial for all sorts of well intentioned reasons. It's easier to believe that someone has an illness that needs to be "cured" rather than that they've developed a destructive pattern of behavior that they need to take responsibility for and change.
AA
There are limitations to and serious critisms of the 12 steps approach