Scotland are again trying to lead the way and look set to embarass the rest of the UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11155653
I think that a minimum price per unit would not only begin to throttle the binge/anti social drinking culture that we have been growing steadily over the last 20yrs, it would also reduce the price difference between supermarket loss leading and local public houses.
Or perhaps we should go down the prohibition route, that seems to be working well with other recreational drugs!
binge drinking is not a financial thing it is a social issue. price increase will do nothing to discourage binge drinking.
I doubt it will work, drugs aint exactly cheap!
Opposition parties at Holyrood intend to unite to block the policy as they say it would hit responsible drinkers.
does anyone know any responsible drinkers who regularly buy 3litres of cider for £2.99?
Price is a red herring. This isn't going to work. Young people living at home will happily spend all their wages on alcohol. I know I did 😉
but if alcohol costs more, you'll get less of it in return for 'all your wages'
Agreed Penrod Pooch!
Also, alcoholics with partners and children will continue to buy the same quantity of alcohol, but it will cost more leaving less for to be spent on the partners and children.
That's not a very good idea.
Really??
How about dropping the price?
Seriously. Went to France for 2 weeks hols in August, and before we went everyone was warning us about how "expensive" France had become.
Yet very drinkable Appelation Controllee wines were in the order of 2.5 - 3 euros per 750 cl bottle. Cider as cheap as 0.99 euro for a 1.5 l bottle (and still very drinkable)
Didn't see any drunken and aggressive French binge drinkers anywhere.
This is a problem of social attitudes, not cost
cynic-al - MemberI doubt it will work, drugs aint exactly cheap!
er, yes they are - very cheap.
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/8104959.stm ]'cheaper than a night out'[/url]
i just think that pushing folk out of their houses, street corners, kiddys playgrounds...... and back into local pubs is in general a good thing.
Currently the pubs just cannot compete on price.
Im not suggesting that people cannot drink to excess in either the short term or long term in a pub, but the sense of community and responsibility allows youngsters to push their boundaries (short term) in a safe-ish environment and everyone else keeps an eye out for each other (long term)
personal choice will still allow folk to kill themselves with alcohol, but surely at present hiding in your house with a few £5 bottles of scotch is too easy.
I claim my prize!
Seems I'm the only one that can see the sarcasm in your post(s).
[i]Or perhaps we should go down the prohibition route, that seems to be working well with other recreational drugs! [/i]
So only the poor are alcoholics? If pricing was the real reason then surely alcohol ought to be priced on an individual level, based upon 'disposable' income?
Like all addictions, price is not a factor. People will make other sacrifices to obtain their drug of choice.
Prohibition is not a solution either.
Cynical money making exercise on behalf of the govt. Economy's screwed, where we going to get more cash from? Minimum price on booze! Full of win. More cash and we are seen to be caring too. Result.
It's a social issue, end of. Unless we change our view that in order to have a "good night" we need to get slaughtered then this will not go away. Oh, and "Yes," I do like beer. Lots of beer.
Coyote - Membermoney making exercise on behalf of the govt
so it's a good thing then?
Who cares? Two weeks without booze here 🙁
It's a social issue, end of. Unless we change our view...
echoes other thoughts above, but doesnt go so far as to suggest how.
Make running a public house affordable again, away from the profiteering of big businesses. Let the people be sociable, let them talk, let them seek company and comfort instead of making drinking to forget the easy and cheap option
nobody has a better idea.
Make running a public house affordable again, away from the profiteering of big businesses
Couldn't agree more! I spoke with a landlord about 15 -20 years ago who said that the big brewerys were killing the pub trade and that there was little profit in beer.
Coyote, I am not sure how fixing a minimum price per unit raises revenue for the Scottish government. It may well do so for the companies selling alcohol such as the supermarkets but there is no direct increase in income for the government from that.
It is clear that using a minimum selling price is a blunt instrument for reducing alcohol consumption which may have a negative effect on the poor moderate drinkers but at least the Scottish government is trying to do something about the alcohol consumption problem that exists in this country. A change in attitude towards alcohol consumption is what is needed but that will take time. If binge and excessive drinking can be reduced now surely that is a good thing. The measure has the support of the BMA and the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons among others who deal with the consequences of this country's approach to alcohol. I am just back from a holiday in Italy where alcohol is freely available, plenty of bars, restaurants and supermakets but no drunk people patrolling the streets looking for trouble. I am sure a trip to inner city Naples or Rome might see me finding those people but the attitude alcohol in other countries does appear to be much healthier. How we change that attitude here is beyond me other than to say that I am sure our approach will not change overnight so let's try to forcefully reduce consumption while at the same time trying to change our unhealthy attitude.
ahwiles - MemberCoyote - Member
money making exercise on behalf of the govt
so it's a good thing then?
ahahahahahahahah hah ahha haahahahah aha ahaahahaha..
OH dear.. this is exactly the sort of reasoning that allows our rich and powerful government to syphon seemingly endless amounts of pocket change from the extremely poor population to drip into the enormous ocean of debt that is created in order to line their sable coats with silk..
lord have mercy
I doubt it will work, drugs aint exactly cheap!
An ecstacy tablet currently costs around £2.50 round here, and will do considerably more to you than a pint (which you would just about get for £2.50). 🙂
I'm not sure what to think about this - I do really agree that something needs to be done about the profitability of running pubs, but as I understand it the main problem is pubcos milking landlords dry - this isn't going to stop that happening - they will just make more profits.
Like all addictions, price is not a factor. People will make other sacrifices to obtain their drug of choice.
Price is a red herring. This isn't going to work. Young people living at home will happily spend all their wages on alcohol. I know I did
To be fair to the Scottish government, this kind of comment isn't actually true - there is loads of evidence that increasing the price of alcohol and/or adding minimum unit prices makes a great deal of difference to how much drinking goes on. It also has a significant effect on drink driving rates, alcohol related crime etc. Loads of evidence from places where they did bring this kind of policy in.
The government even commissioned some research on this:
Independent Review of the Effects of Alcohol Pricing and Promotion at the link below.
Didn't see any drunken and aggressive French binge drinkers anywhere.
Right, no French drink related violence, drink driving, health problems (cirrhosis of the liver rates are very high) etc. either, it'd be great to have the French attitude to drinking.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/nov/25/france.jonhenley
Called "Alcoolisme : Un déni national" if anyone happens to be in a French library and interested in reading the original source.
The funniest part of all this is the "Scottish" Labour opposing these plans after publishing their very own report showing a minimum price would be a good thing and the Tories/LibDems opposing it despite the "UK" government wanting to do exactly the same.
Political point scoring with the health of the Scottish nation.
druidh +1
Whatever Wee Eck proposed Scottish Labour and the Tories would oppose it.
I agree that it's a cultural issue and not a pricing one.
I would go futher and suggest that pub alcohol duties are reduced, to encourage more people to socialise in the pub rather than drinking at home - the landlord can refuse to serve people who've been deemed to have imbibed too much.
does anyone know any responsible drinkers who regularly buy 3litres of cider for £2.99?
I've been buying Lidl's and Aldi's 2litre dry cider for £1.50. as its nice, and easier to take camping the 2litre bottle than it is several bottles of beer.
still that bottle will last use a couple of days.
as to Scotland 'leading the way' several councils in England are proposing the same.
Greater Manchester is considering it, as is Rossendale, was i was down near Buxton on Trent a few weeks ago, their local paper also had the headline that the council there was considering the same.
Still no one has come up with a way of getting it past the EU anti price fixing rules...
suggest that pub alcohol duties are reduced
Still no one has come up with a way of getting it past the EU anti price fixing rules...
would that work?
yunki - Memberahahahahahahahah hah ahha haahahahah aha ahaahahaha..
lord have mercy
i'm happy to pay taxes, am i so unusual?
I loves the booze me.
the landlord can refuse to serve people who've been deemed to have imbibed too much.
She/he's already under a (rarely exercised) duty to do so is he not?
yep, but the corner shop will happily sell me two bottles of vodka and a pack of fizzy cola bottles.
I can't see why so many people are trying to protect the public houses. Why on earth do we need them? Please tell me.
cheap cider indeed. Tsk. No class any of you. My liquid intake already costs a fortune. Its 'reassuringly expensive' 😀
Because robdob, we need somewhere to go before we have a fight outside the kebab house. Do you know nothing?
[i]Coyote, I am not sure how fixing a minimum price per unit raises revenue for the Scottish government. It may well do so for the companies selling alcohol such as the supermarkets but there is no direct increase in income for the government from that.[/i]
VAT?
I can't see why so many people are trying to protect the public houses. Why on earth do we need them? Please tell me.
Especially in rural communities pubs fulfill a vital role as a hub of the community. Similar to a PO. Lots of places become dull and lifeless when the local pub closes.
VAT?
VAT is collected by central government and does not go the Scottish Government. I also suspect that given that all this will do is to raise the price of very cheap alcohol that the increase in VAT receipts will be small.
Does this mean we'll have to endure hordes of the wretched creatures down here on booze cruises ? 😆
I can't see why so many people are trying to protect the public houses. Why on earth do we need them? Please tell me.
It's this new thing scientists have discovered called social interaction.
That well known paragon of wisdom, Jeremy Clarkson, once said that we drink like Northern Europeans and the French and Italians drink like Southern Europeans, because that's what we are. I think he might have a point.
If the UK had a similar climate to the south of Europe and it wasn't so damn dark for such a long time in the winter then I reckon my alcohol consumption would fall.
More of a step towards the Nanny State. Christ - we are human - we make our own choices. If somebody wants to drink themselves to death, they will, irrespective of alcohol pricing. In Sweden for example, beers above 3.5%, wine and spirits are very expensive (heavily taxed) and are only available from the Systembolaget - government run outlets with limited opening hours. So those who want to get around this construct a home still and get bladdered / dead on distilled grain / potato mashes.
Choice.
On a lighter note:
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/wetherspoons-to-open-in-a%26e-201009013051/ ]Funny![/url]
Surely this starts with education at schools(for long term benefits), and support for young people who are already binge drinking for a variety of reasons. There is so little support for people caught in alcohol abuse and continuing cuts in funding for specialists services will not help.
Increasing prices will not solve the problem.
How has the increasing price of fags affected the rates of people quitting?
How has the public smoking ban affected the rates of people quitting?
It's quite sad to see that people are taking such a binary approach to this. It appears that some people will refuse to accept anything that might go some to helping to solve a problem unless it provides a perfect solution. No one has ever pretended that this is some sort of magic bullit that will solve all of our alcohol problem and nor has anyone said that it will stop alcoholics from drinking, quite the opposite. It is being seen as a means of reducing overall alcohol consumption.
Personally I see it as a good thing and some of the arguments against it, including those expressed elsewhere, do not stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.
you aint comparing apples with apples pieface.
they are not talking about raising the duty on alcohol across the board but introducing a minimum price per unit to combat agressive selling tactics
however there have been several studies showing the almost instantaneous benefits of the smoking ban - cynics may say that these studies are government sponsored.........
How has the increasing price of fags affected the rates of people quitting?
Apparently increasing the price of fags by 50% reduces the number of them sold by approximately 25%.
How has the public smoking ban affected the rates of people quitting?
Increased it.
Joe
(Townsend J (1996) “Price and Consumption of Tobacco” British Medical Bulletin.)
