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If there was a crowd fund for a professional hit could they lock millions of us up?
Asking for a friend.
He must be getting short of cash so is looking for his next bandwagon to exploit and get the gullible to give him cash
He seems to be referencing the Great Barrington Declaration which seems to be some non-SAGE science types arguing for anti-lockdown:
https://gbdeclaration.org/
If it's got Karol Sikora's name on it then it's complete and utter b******s. Quite a few signatories seem to be homeopaths, not epidemiologists.
The bottom line is that Farage doesn't believe in state funded healthcare, nor does he believe in saving lives at the expense of the economy.
Don't click it, you'll only get annoyed...Don't click it, you'll only get annoyed...Don't click it, you'll only get annoyed...
Garrrgh.
Ah the usual it's all wrong and I'll fix it but not offering any actual solutions.
Harry,your friend may not have to do a long jail term.
The pilot of a plane that crashed on election day, injuring Ukip leader Nigel Farage, was given a two-year community order on Friday after a court heard his threats to kill the politician were "a cry for help".
Think that one was lost on most Percy lol
What is the conspiracy theory
It's artificially manufactured by the Chinese in order to weaken the West.
Shame they didn't substitute China for Russia and apply that logic to brexit really.
*They don’t get that masks have a part, however small, in lessening/ shortening the need for lock downs. It just goes over their heads.
IME it mostly goes under their chin.
If you can bring yourself to do it I suggest pinching your nose and having a look at the Daily Wail comments section on this. It reinforces the view above that is it dangerous to ignore him, he is very, very popular with their readers. Like it or no, their readers are voters and there are lots of them.
Nigel isn't actually the interesting character in this, He's just acting as the spokes-gobshite for someone else (IMO)...
My question would be who's paying for him to spout this time?
Is it Aaron Banks again, or someone else?
Farage won't rabble rouse for free.
Mark my words someone, who wants to mobilise malcontent Gammons against wearing masks and closing pubs, is holding some purse strings somewhere in the background.
So who actually benefits if Nige can make mask wearing and lockdown compliance a dog-whistle partisan issue, just like they've managed to do in 'merica?
OK guys, I took one for the team and checked the Daily Hate. Surprisingly enough, there wasn't quite the universal support for him that I expected.
@cookeaa it's probably same as ever. Dark Russian money and sinister hard right American billionaires trying to turn the UK into the US ((which is working really well).
...the Great Barrington Declaration which seems to be some non-SAGE science types arguing for anti-lockdown...
Who are the scientists behind the Great Barrington Declaration?
Quelle surprise, it's the utter vermin who've sponsored decades of climate change scepticism.
The declaration was sponsored by the American Institute for Economic Research, a libertarian, free-market think tank headquartered in western Massachusetts. The Institute is in a network of organizations funded by Charles Koch -- a right-wing billionaire known for promoting climate change denial and opposing regulations on business.
No General election for 4 years so who cares?
Its not about that.
Also a nice little reminder to De Pfeffel that the true director of far right politics in the country can splinter Tory support whenever he wants.
This. Its all about disruption, they have done it before.
Just in case he is thinking about trying to get a temporary deal with the EU or some such.
Just making sure the brexit bus doesn't get a puncture before it reaches its destination, remember, Brexit is a vehicle, not the destination.
I do think we shouldn't be pigeon holing and digging at whole groups of people who hold different views and lumping them in with Mr F or calling people stupid on issues like masks and attitudes to lockdown.
These issues ought to be debated openly without fear of personal abuse because they are more complex than "do X, save lives" because doing X may save Covid lives but it might cost others or have wider consequences. It's all a juggling act and we should talk about it like grownups not be brow beating people. If you call people names you're only going to drive in a bigger wedge.
I expect people to comply with the law but if someone wants to express a concern over (say) Brexit or Covid strategy in a reasoned and thought through way they shouldn't be labelled and abused for that. That's a fascist trick and if you want to discourage fascism then don't play that game. Unfortunately there are more liberal/left leaning people who are just heading down that same route of labelling and bashing. This is fuel to the fire.
We should listen and assess what is being said on its merits and it should be discussed with calm courtesy. We won't always agree but in order to move forward we must first behave like we would expect to be treated towards those who do snot share our views. The frothing types won't listen regardless but you might get some engagement from those who are at the fringes.
Unless of course you're openly being bigoted, racist, discriminatory in which case get in the sea.
Last I heard he was planning on putting his weight behind changing our system from FPTP to Proportional representation which would have been upsetting because I'd be worried I'd agree with him.
If it’s got Karol Sikora’s name on it then it’s complete and utter b******s.
He really needs locking up.
Back in those (relatively) halcyon days when TM was PM last year I went to a local pub which I hadn't been to before.
First words I heard when approaching the bar...we need our Nige to sort out that shower of shite in parlianent; followed by grunts of agreement.
He still has an uncomfortably high level of support in the UK.
If, god help us, trump wins he will be further empowered.
TBH, who cares. He's universally accepted by all right thinking people of being a parasite, and his fan base listed the stupidest people in the UK.
EVENTUALLY he'll mess it up for himself, then disappear into obscurity.
At least he’s not gone full anti-vaxxer (yet), can see that being his next move….
Take that down now. He'll jump at any opportunity to stay in the news.
Do you really believe "Mr F" has our best interests at heart?
As for complaining that poor Nige being "labelled and abused" is a "Fascist trick" I think you're missing the point:
Both the UK and US executed "too little, too late" efforts at lockdown once already and that has yielded above average death rates...
Better prepared countries like Korea and economically Poorer nations such as Greece undertook more aggressive lockdowns and allowed themselves to be guided more by public health experts rather than economic imperatives, their death tolls were lower...
So the "great experiment" in CV19 herd immunity has already been carried out during the first wave and it indicated that "letting the virus run it's course" and failing to minimise it's spread through measures that minimise physical interactions will both overwhelm medical resources and result in more deaths and long term health issues for more people...
He's seeking to re-tool his old single issue, Right-wing, nationalist party, whose original purpose is now served, making them largely redundant. To re-focus them on the issue of the day, arguing for a course of action that WILL kill and damage the health of more people...
His argument is based on the bought and paid for "opinions" of a handful of "experts" funded by a Right-wing US think tank...
He has form for engaging in Dog whistle, populism and is doing so again, to what end isn't really all that clear TBH.
This time though the stakes include people's lives and physical well being...
But those of us questioning/challenging/calling him out for the gobshite he is are Fascists?
I think garage dweller makes a fair point. The problem is, I've met very few Brexiteers or Covid deniers who will do any checking of facts to have a discussion with. But insults and mutual bigotry are not the solution the country needs
TBH, who cares. He’s universally accepted by all right thinking people of being a parasite, and his fan base listed the stupidest people in the UK.
Problem is, the right thinking people were in the minority when it mattered.
TBH, who cares. He’s universally accepted by all right thinking people of being a parasite, and his fan base listed the stupidest people in the UK.
EVENTUALLY he’ll mess it up for himself, then disappear into obscurity.
Every right thinking person should care and many, but not enough, do.
As for him eventually stuffing things up, his followers have shown that they will not criticise him and as long as he panders to their base(st) instincts he will retain their support.
Look at yaxley-lennon...he's served at least 4 prison terms and has made multiple court appearances; that makes him a cult hero to his followers.
We're stuck with farage until he drinks himself to death or dies in an accident.
He's a hero to his followers.
insults and mutual bigotry are not the solution the country needs
You know what, You're right.
I don't think those of use with less charitable views of Nige should be 'labelled' as "Fascist" for disagreeing with a Right-wing, Nationalist who apparently want's to use a global pandemic for a bit of "whoopsy accidental Eugenics" Yet here we are...
I always tried to be the better man with the brexit thing. But if he runs with this anti-lockdown madness and I see him in the street I'm going to kick his ****ing head in. He's just picked the populist bandwagon of convenience regardless of how many lives it ends and how much harm it causes, it's not just "brexit but a bit worse", it's harm for its own sake. **** that guy.
Think you've rather missed the point of my post.
Can't abide the man or his politics (very much a fine craft beer socialist / centre left myself) and you can bash his policy or lack thereof all day long as far as I'm concerned.
The point of my post (hastily tapped over lunch while trying to stop our dog stealing my biscuit so forgive any confusion) was the practice of people on here (including in this thread) and more generally on Twitter and Facebook arbitrarily lumping people with different views to them into groups of which they disapprove and automatically ascribing other undesirable attributes to them by being members of that group. If you believe X you must also be Y. Far too black and white and over simplifies and weakens proper understanding of the issues but creates dangerous divisions that then become entrenched.
E.g. the presumption that if you're anti mask wearing/anti lockdown/want a different version of lockdown/the rules you are automatically a Mr F acolyte on all other matters.
People's views on such things may be informed by a variety of factors that include life stage/circumstances, appetite for risk, perception of the benefit it will bring vs. the collateral damage it will cause, their experiences.
It is dangerous to label and define groups based on overly simple characteristics and a single commonality between members, whether that's a protected characteristic or an opinion on public health or their decision to commute by bike.
I expect Mr Johnson likes red wine, so do I but it doesn't make me a Tory.
The man is a cult, he has a cult following and surrounds himself with others who operate as cults (trump).
Absolutely DO NOT think Mr F has our best interests at heart.
Can’t abide the man or his politics (very much a fine craft beer socialist / centre left myself) and you can bash his policy or lack thereof all day long as far as I’m concerned.
The point of my post (hastily tapped over lunch while trying to stop our dog stealing my biscuit so forgive any confusion) was the practice of people on here (including in this thread) and more generally on Twitter and Facebook arbitrarily lumping people with different views to them into groups of which they disapprove and automatically ascribing other undesirable attributes to them by being members of that group. If you believe X you must also be Y. Far too black and white and over simplifies and weakens proper understanding of the issues but creates dangerous divisions that then become entrenched.
E.g. the presumption that if you’re anti mask wearing/anti lockdown/want a different version of lockdown/the rules you are automatically a Mr F acolyte on all other matters.
People’s views on such things may be informed by a variety of factors that include life stage/circumstances, appetite for risk, perception of the benefit it will bring vs. the collateral damage it will cause, their experiences.
It is dangerous to label and define groups based on overly simple characteristics and a single commonality between members, whether that’s a protected characteristic or an opinion on public health or their decision to commute by bike.
I expect Mr Johnson likes red wine, so do I but it doesn’t make me a Tory.
That makes a lot more sense, completely agree. Unfortunately so many of those being talked about aren't interested in talking reasonably or factually. As is so often the case anyone who turns up with inconvenient facts is automatically branded a troll. I'm not sure what the solution is other than an EMP on every data centre.
Apologies then for my triggered conclusion jumping garage_dweller.
Although I have to say, if Nige and his mates have proven anything in recent years it's that calm, conciliatory debate and discussion just doesn't work, not in the face of dog-whistle rhetoric and hyperbolic lying.
I used to think we could conduct our national business in a civilized way. Sadly I don't anymore, fight fire with fire...
I'm going to call a Gammon a Gammon, blame them for all the ills of modern society and shout them down when they try to defend their stupidity... (From the safety of my keyboard of course, I'm not a maniac).
The man is a cult, he has a cult following and surrounds himself with others who operate as cults (trump).
Your spelling needs some work.
@cookeaa no problem/offence taken I blame the at risk chocolate hob nob and the dog for me not making myself very clear the first time! 🙂
calm, conciliatory debate and discussion just doesn’t work, not in the face of dog-whistle rhetoric and hyperbolic lying.
Totally agree. I'm not sure how we do fight that which is pretty scary.
I’m going to call a Gammon a Gammon, blame them for all the ills of modern society and shout them down when they try to defend their stupidity… (From the safety of my keyboard of course, I’m not a maniac).
What does that achieve?
What does any of it achieve? It's much easier to appeal to people's monkey-brain instincts of fear, jealousy, anger etc than it is to persuade people to be rational and nice. The internet is a giant division/hate machine that is proving this beyond doubt. We can be compassionate and reasonable all we like, it won't achieve anything.
Harry - it's the site swear filter at work.
Totally agree. I’m not sure how we do fight that which is pretty scary.
Find a way to shape the discussion to your needs. It's no surprise that Farage is back in political play at the precise point that Brexit deal negotiations are critical, is it? Talking about anything he says is pointless, merely serves his own ends. So if he's back, ignore his agenda, ask about how the Sovereign Kingdom of Kent is going now it's borders have been established. How well the customs issues have been solved. How many lovely trade deals we have. That kind of thing.
What does any of it achieve? It’s much easier to appeal to people’s monkey-brain instincts of fear, jealousy, anger etc than it is to persuade people to be rational and nice. The internet is a giant division/hate machine that is proving this beyond doubt. We can be compassionate and reasonable all we like, it won’t achieve anything.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that insulting people entrenches them in their position. If you can't be civil, you're better off not talking to them at all.
I do think we shouldn’t be pigeon holing and digging at whole groups of people who hold different views and lumping them in with Mr F or calling people stupid on issues like masks and attitudes to lockdown.
I agree with this.
I have left-wing views, can't stand Farage and don't think COVID is a hoax.
But I do have serious concerns about the general long term impact that lockdowns and restrictions may have on society.
Looking at the problem in the round and balancing the health considerations against the impact on people's everyday lives - on jobs and mental health/well being.
I don't think these are irrational concerns to have. And yet, the only people I've seen who are broaching these topics are right wing commentators, the likes of Farage and co.
I understand what they're doing and why they're doing it. They benefit from this being a binary debate.
What does that achieve?
Catharsis?
There's a couple of comments here about not grouping... well, basically not stereotyping people, and not calling them names, and trying to reach them by less divisive means. We've seen this argument time and again since 2016, it's a laudable standpoint but there's one "elephant in the room" problem with it:
It doesn't work.
Because, I've tried. God knows have I tried. On STW, on Facebook, in 'real life,' from the referendum until we left, on pretty much a daily basis. And I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of leavers I've engaged with who didn't turn out to be either "I'm not racist but" or an abject shit-for-brains.
I've asserted on here multiple times that it's inaccurate and unfair to say that they're all idiots and I expect the reality is that the majority of leave voters voted on the day and then promptly forgot all about it to get on with their lives, but in the subset of brexies sufficiently driven to still be talking about it months or years later, by god do they have the monopoly.
It got to a point where I was playing 'Guess The Facebook Profile' Bingo. White, obvs; over 50; probably over 60; male; bald either by genetics or shaven; overweight; wearing a replica football shirt despite last kicking a ball when they were 16; went to the "school of hard knocks" before graduating from the "university of life"; banner picture is the Union Flag; public feed full of racist propaganda, "ABDUL WAS GIVEN A FREE GOLD HOUSE AND £100000000000000 IN BENEFITS PENISONERS GET 47 PENCE A YEAR SHARE IF YOU THINK THIS IS A DISC RACE"; the stereotype is real.
You can't have a reasonable conversation with these people because, ipso facto, they aren't reasonable. They come out with some random bobbins about using a lot of soy sauce on GBBO and how great it is that it'll be cheaper when we leave because something about EU taxes and Japan, you reply "well actually I think you'll find that the EU rate on soy sauce from Japan is zero but it will be higher under WTO and in any case the most popular soy sauce in the UK is made in Holland which is part of the EU27," they're not going to go "golly old chap, thank you for the correction, I had no idea," they just hear Mr Logic from Viz. And invariably they will then either get angry and abusive, change the subject or drop to radio silence. I've seen it time and time and time again.
They're not interested in education or learning, they just want to win. And the sad fact is that there are no winners here, we all lose collectively.
So what else have we got left other than going "well, you're clearly a ****ing moron" in exasperation and linking to the 'playing chess with a pigeon' meme?
What if that really is what it’s all about?
Think that one was lost on most Percy lol
Most, but not all; well done perchy!
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that insulting people entrenches them in their position.
They're already entrenched. They were entrenched back in the 1970s when Alf Garnett was their hero and we were trying to explain to them in words of one syllable that referring to someone as a nig-nog perhaps wasn't a very nice thing to do. Being called names is the least of their worries.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that insulting people entrenches them in their position. If you can’t be civil, you’re better off not talking to them at all.
That's why I left Facebook.
Thing is, my mum and step dad went out campaigning frequently in favour of Remain in our local area during the referendum. They were studiously polite and calm and rational, and used evidence to support their arguments, and were often met with ill informed aggression and abuse.
You can be nice and rational all you like, but in the face of emotional arguments that trigger people's unpleasant base instincts, instincts those people are either unaware of or don't care to challenge in themselves, it's a total waste of time.
So yeah insults achieve nothing but being reasonable only achieves making you feel better about yourself. Go for it.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that insulting people entrenches them in their position. If you can’t be civil, you’re better off not talking to them at all.
Lowering yourself to their low standards is not helping anyone. I get that many of us have failed to persuade the unpersuadable, but insulting people just because they won't agree with you is counter-productive.
It's not just that they 'won't agree with you' though is it. I think that's pretty dismissive of the genuine hurt and upset and fear that's created by mass numbers of people being racist, mean-spirited, wilfully ignorant etc
Their world view is causing direct harm such as the massive rise in racist abuse/violence since the Leave vote. And you want to say 'hey guys let's all be nice to each other'. Nah, that just lets people get away with legitimising what used to be considered extreme far right views. I don't have the answers but being nice and rational has patently failed.
Their world view is causing direct harm such as the massive rise in racist abuse/violence since the Leave vote. And you want to say ‘hey guys let’s all be nice to each other’.
No, that's not what I'm saying. I have no problem telling people their views are wrong, repugnant and ignorant. But I won't give in to the temptation to tell them that they are absolute ****ing ****s, because that gives them the reaction they are looking for, expecting and wanting.
When it comes to farage's followers they want you to listen to their point of view - which is usually a recitation of farage's emissions - but are pathologically unable to listen to a different opinion, particularly when supported by verifiable facts.
A few minutes of one-to-one discussion is usually enough to tell you if there is any point continuing.
When faced with that level of wilful ignorance and blind loyalty to good old nige there is no point attempting to continue any discussion.
They have absolutely no interest in being informed - by others or educating themselves - to enable them to take educated and reasoned decisions.
I refuse to sink to their level - as MCTD said above, that is the reaction they want.
It's completely accurate to describe them as being hard of thinking.