MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Oh and also, give up a days annual leave, FOREVER. Who dreams up this shit, and why the F*%k do the media report it verbatim? Bar Stewards. F%*^ RIGHT OFF, May and Hunt.
erm, yes it is.
Its a ratio change in X over a specified period.
You mean its not 6.5% pa. Which it isnt. But it never said it was.
Wait for the posts below moaning about NHS staff having too much annual leave, that's why they're "offering" to take a day of it away, because it won't hurt them politically.
Bizarre to trumpet that as a great offer. We'll give you a pay rise at the rate of inflation for one year, then below the likely rate of inflation for the next two. Overall, would you like a pay cut of 3% over three years, plus can I have a day of your holiday please?
Wait for the posts below moaning about NHS staff having too much annual leave, that’s why they’re “offering” to take a day of it away, because it won’t hurt them politically.
Agreed, I say loose 3 days at least.. or possibly give them the same holidays as teachers do..
HTHs.
Real terms pay cut dressed up as a "generous" pay rise.
Politics and spin at its finest.
Spin to cut public support for them. 6.5% sounds a lot. Not over 3 years it isn't!
Yup. Spin. Real terms pay cut AND worsening terms of employment. Nice.
obvious that 6.5% used as teh headline is meant to imply pa
very dissapointed that the BBC still tried to say it was a pay rise
Bearing in mind there's been a real terms pay cut for the last 8 years, what would be acceptable for a 3 year settlement?
Roughly based on current forecasts, it's matching inflation for the first 2 years, then 0.5% below for year 3.
Doubt anybody in public sector is going to get any better (still not massively motivating though obvs).
"A Day" is a funny thing to ask for - given that NHS Hols are in hours not days as shifts are different lengths. Anyway...
a 3% per annum pay rise is equivalent to about 6.5 days money by my quick calculations so it is a pay-rise and for staff members who don't use all their leave it might be a moot point, not sure there's many of them though - can't speak for all the NHS staff, but my Wife's manager chases them to book all their hols ASAP so she can plan shifts etc.
erm, yes it is.
Its a ratio change in X over a specified period.
You mean its not 6.5% pa. Which it isnt. But it never said it was.
Public sector pay rises are often presented in this sort of way and you must admit Stoner that it’s dissingenuous at best. The headline figure that people see is 6.5% and because the “over X years” part isn’t normally in the headline joe public thinks that it’s all in a oner. It’s spin nothing more.
erm, yes it is.
Its a ratio change in X over a specified period.
You mean its not 6.5% pa. Which it isnt. But it never said it was.
Okay, smartarse! 😉 But there's a convention for quoting pay offers, and its per annum. to quote the three year amount is misleading and disingenuous. You also have to read past the headline to find the 'specified time' which is bordering on deliberate obfuscation.
The fact is, if NHS staff start putting their holiday entitlement on the table in order to secure a sub-inflationary pay deal, that sets them up nicely to be asked for more when staff shortages get even worse after a certain event which may dissuade overseas staff from being around.
It isn't a bargaining chip. Certainly not for those kind of percentages.
Kinda shows how desperate Hunt is. 7-day NHS? He'll be lucky to get a 5-day one in a few years' time.
Bearing in mind there’s been a real terms pay cut for the last 8 years, what would be acceptable for a 3 year settlement?
Roughly based on current forecasts, it’s matching inflation for the first 2 years, then 0.5% below for year 3.
So this, too, is itself a real terms pay cut, only they also lose some holiday. I'd be pretty disappointed if this was for me. Surely inflation plus a bit for 3 years would be the least they can do?
Can't see this helping to retain staff. Why stay when you can work your chosen hours doing bank work. Great for the NHS as well, because this is such a cheap option for staffing your shifts.... not. Still, not to worry, its nice for the companies providing bank staff. I'm really tired of this, we are all being asked to do more for less.
Kinda shows how desperate Hunt is. 7-day NHS? He’ll be lucky to get a 5-day one in a few years’ time.
And that will be the point where they suggest that privatisation and opening up to market competition is the only answer.
Thought there was a curb on using Bank Staff now, since it cost 5-6 times more than a normal salary.. Ok, so that nugget is probably about 5 years old.. but I thought it'd been adopted.
Sounds a carp deal to me, they should be pushing for at least 7.5% over the three years, before we even talk about this questionable removing of a day of annual leave.
What's the basic annual leave package in the NHS, compared to the minimum 28 paid days per year for full time, which can include bank holidays?
The "NHS soldiers" on the ground have had a rough pay deal for ~10 years, if they wanted to make savings, it should have come from managerial pay grades. Nursing is another essential community service that is seriously under threat in the UK, where the wages have not kept up with lower end house prices, it won't be long before there will be a nursing crisis along the south coast.
It's ok, you can ship Philippino's in.. Like you have been doing for the last 10years or so..
27 plus 8 BH initially, rising to 33 plus 8 BH after 10 years service. Holiday days are 7.5hrs. working week is 37.5hrs. half hour unpaid lunch is assumed, but often not taken, esp in hospitals.
Luckily we're forseeing absolutely zero staffing issues now we're leaving the EU lol
It's a crap offer and linking it to giving up holiday shows the contempt with which the gov regards nhs employees.
Let's hope that the first mp who attempts to publicly defend or sell this as a good deal is reminded that MPs have just been awarded 1.4%; retain all the benefits of subsidised bars & restaurants at westminster; have 'gold plated' pension schemes; can still claim 'expenses' without much heavy scrutiny; are eligible for length of service based resettlement payments on losing their seat or leaving parliament; can employ relatives as 'office staff - ho ho.
Yep, we're all in it together.
Well I for one cannot wait to see how they try to **** teachers over if this is what nurses are getting!!
Ooooooo..... not heard ‘we’re all in it together’ for a while. Can’t think why. Retro sloganeering! Seeing as that does seem a lifetime ago, doesn’t it, when Gideon was parotting that?
So... to summarise....
in return for surrendering some of your holiday entitlement, we’re generously prepared to give you a slightly less savage pay cut than the one you’ve been used to getting?
That sounds brilliant!
I’m really tired of this, we are all being asked to do more for less
My grandpa, first male nurse in England apparently, had a sign above his desk at the end of a life's work in NHS and Zambian field surgery's -
"I have done so much, with so little, for so long, I am now qualified to do anything, with nothing."
It's a crap deal, and just a continuation (like so many public servants) of the real level pay cut.
You mean its not 6.5% pa. Which it isnt. But it never said it was.
That's true if we disregard the widely accepted long standing convention for reporting pay negotiations. It's deliberately misleading and you know it.
Bloody hell makes our 9% pay rise over 3 years and an hour off the working week (39 down to 38) with a promised intention to give us a 35 hour week by 2022 look good!!
My Mrs is a Midwife she is going to be fuming!!!!
I can't decide whether Huntface deserves a medal for doing what he's being paid to do to the NHS or should be strung up by his nuts for what he's doing to the NHS.
I ****ing despise politicians. They should all be shot, every one of them.
That.
When their lips move, you just know that they are lying.
should be strung up by his nuts for what he’s doing to the NHS.
Strung up by his finger nails, whilst someone sets fire to his nuts, if they can find them.
When I first heard the headline of this, it sounded like it might be worth listening to.
Having listened and considered, I agree with Binners. All you can really say is that it's a less savage beasting than usual. It doesn't really qualify as a 'pay rise' in any other sense than the present rate will keep pace with inflation for a couple of years before falling. No attempt to actually raise pay in Real terms.
If there was a real offer on the table I might be prepared to make a leave sacrifice as a compromise, but agree there too - day is a very odd choice as NHS holiday entitlements are counted and taken in hours across the year - so for people with different length working days a different number of hours will count as 'a day'.
day is a very odd choice as NHS holiday entitlements are counted and taken in hours across the year – so for people with different length working days a different number of hours will count as ‘a day’.
A ‘day’ will just mean 7.5hrs. Pro rata for us mugs working 12hr shifts.
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"Thought there was a curb on using Bank Staff now, since it cost 5-6 times more than a normal salary.."
There was supposed to be. But it didn't provide any alternative source of staffing so it was less than meaningless
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If you compound the increase 3% in year 1, 2% in yr 2 and 1% in yr 3, you still only get to a total of 6.11%. But you still need to subtract the day of holiday that is sacrificed
Where I work acute care beds are being closed and as a result people needing urgent hospital admission can't be admitted, not because we cant afford to pay the staff (although we cant), but because we can't recruit enough nurses to run them safely.
Still, as a child of the eighties I know that 'the market' will sort that out any day now.
Where I work acute care beds are being closed and as a result people needing urgent hospital admission can’t be admitted, not because we cant afford to pay the staff (although we cant), but because we can’t recruit enough nurses to run them safely.
And similar, although not as life threateningly serious, at our school. Class sizes rising due to not being able to recruit or retain enough teachers.
It's all over public services. At our school we have a load of unfilled posts and the cover has been so brutal there's at least 4 on long-term with stress. Yesterday they used 50% of the cover available so by Wednesday everyone will be taken beyond their hours on a week with two unscheduled after school meetings and a parents evening.
It's a case in NHS, policing, teaching of keep squeezing.
You can expect the headlines to be shouting about how good our terms are the closer to pay negotiations we get.
At a time of record low unemployment surely the market would show you need to pay more to get more staff...thought Tories liked the market to decide?
thought Tories liked the market to decide?
Only when it suits
I notice the deal has been agreed with the unions, but no mention of the lost of leave (on the BBC anyway) has it been dropped?
but no mention of the lost of leave (on the BBC anyway) has it been dropped?
Yup according to the Guardian.
Hmm, distraction method to offer the unions a ‘win’ whilst accepting a small increase?
Ah, who knows. At this stage anything is a win.
Well maybe, we’re in Wales so it doesn’t apply here by default and Mrs is top of Band 5 3 days a week and middle of Band 6 2 days a week. NHS complex? Nah.
By my reckoning a 27% ish cut in real term wages since 2010 using compound interest. Appreciate its not just NHS though. And now a 2% yearly increase, RPI in February 2018 is 3.6%.
The loss of a days holiday was denied by Unions from day one.
The offer is reducing the number of payscales so there’s some bag pay rises for some and some not so great for others. Interesting is though that within 2 years somecan reach the top of their pay scale, reaching those that have many years service in 2 quick steps.
I’ll not mention specifics of my role and how it effects that but I can see some reshuffling happening.
So whats the betting the Tories use the NHS pay rise as a tool to pick a fight with, say for example teachers, when they look for a massive 2% rise!!
I thought they wanted 5% which is shocking given the effective freeze teaching has had too.
6.5%, I dream of 6.5%, you lucky, lucky bastard (read with Palin accent).
We had a 2% last year, but we didn't really because 1% was a one off payment., more cleverly worded spin. Back to the 1% next year.
I joined in 1994 and pay was circa 18000. New recruits are on a couple of grand more now 25 years later. No matter what lovely platitudes they may air publicly, they are privately diminishing the public sector in so many ways
Yes they are; I’ve been top of my pay scale for 10 years now - despite my “generous” 1% pay rise and last year's one off, non-pensionable 1% I’ve had my Special Priority Payment & Competency Related Threshold payment removed, leaving me worse off now than in 2010. And that’s ignoring the effects of inflation..!
Also, the whole nhs offer of giving up a day of leave in return for this increase seems to me mis-reported; surely that was 3 days leave? If they’re gonna compound the rise and give the total why not be honest and apply the same method to the day off - it was gonna be 1 day per year (forever) as far as I could tell - not just 7.5hrs as a one off..!