Are you incapable of discussing the points Darcy?
Do you really need to rely on ad hominem for [i]everything[/i]
is that [i]really[/i] the best you've got?
Go on, which of my points do you disagree with?
Is it the interpretation of the US supreme Court judgement in Heller?
Or perhaps the Statistics on Gun ownership comparisons between the US and canada?
http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/rs/rep-rap/1998/wd98_4-dt98_4/p2.html
But the best you can really come up with is that?
[b]weak[/b] 🙄
The US has such a short history and it's mostly a history of US and THEM! Of division.
There's more profit in a system of division. People will defend what they know and love more fiercely if it's perceived there's a band of others out there doing the same for an alternative.
The military moved away from relying so heavily on sharpened blades when firearms became more readily available.And now they use bombs.
Then the next level was drones. Now there's an even further 'detachment' through the use of robotic drones. Can killers be more detached from the action of killing than certain modern militaries have become?
Anyway, I wandered off there. War is too big a business for there not to constantly be one going on for the USA.
9/11 deaths: ~3000
War on Terror per capita: ~ $4 mil per person (1.283 tril / 313 mil)
Gun deaths: Chicago alone, over 4,000 people age 21 or younger (over last 4 years)
Mental Health budget per capita: $90-270 dollars per person (cut by 1.6 Billion)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_September_11_attacks
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/24/87-gun-deaths-a-day-why-the-colorado-shooting-is-tragically-unsurprising.html
http://www.nami.org/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm?ContentFileID=147771
Do you really need to rely on ad hominem for everything
Calm down Zulu FFS. 😆
Are you incapable of discussing the points Darcy?Do you really need to rely on ad hominem for everything
is that really the best you've got?
Have you read the boy who cried wolf...chuckles
Its amusing to read you doing this - shame you are only doing it for a reaction as usual though
So, you [i]really[/i] still can't come up with anything better?
Thats rather poor - I mean, I gave you the chance... but come on, you [i]really[/i] can't pick any holes in my argument?
Its a pretty poor show isn't it really? You're really flagging - I mean, arguing with you is increasingly like watching my opponent turn up to a knife fight with a spoon. Its just upsetting to see you fall by the wayside like this.
Hope you feel better soon 😕
Hold on were you not just complaining about ad hominems
The high ground argument was short lived 😕
Ah a nice Big Hitter troll thread. It's threads like this where tagging is really missed 🙂
Volvo for sale
On the pro-gun arguments:
1)The Canada thing is rubbish. Canada has roughly half the gun ownership compared to the USA (22 percent vs 48 percent of households according to the document linked above). Further to that, in Canada, less than 12 percent of those households own any handguns, being the best guns for sneaking into places to do murders (and the best for killing lots of people quickly at close range once you have done so.) In the US, it is 58 percent.
So Canada has less killings with guns, because they mostly buy guns that are only very good for hunting, mostly only own them in remote rural areas, and hence mostly shoot animals with them. In the USA, they buy handguns, which are good for killing people, keep them in busy cities, and often carry them all the time, and voila, they tend to kill people with them.
So basically, guns don't kill people, but providing vast numbers of people with the type of gun that is designed to kill people, tends to make it a lot easier for them to kill people.
It also makes it way easier for them to commit suicide - hence the really really high rate of suicide in the US, particularly amongst teenagers. Similar percentages attempt suicide in many other countries, it's just that we don't provide about half our kids with a foolproof method of killing themselves. Unless one is to argue that any suicide, even amongst confused teenagers, is natural selection, by supporting widespread and unrestrained gun ownership, you are supporting this state of affairs - essentially saying that your 'right to bear arms' is more important than giving thousands of kids the chance to live at least until they are 18.
2)If you arm the teachers, you are giving guns to many thousands of people, all of whom have every day easy access to kids, are regularly stressed out by kids and have mental breakdowns at at least the same rate as any other profession. So, you're putting guns in the hands of a load of people, all of whom are the most likely people to have some kind of a breakdown around kids, and to be blaming the on kids at the point they have that breakdown. Nice idea.
3)Further to that, and more importantly, assuming you want the teacher's gun to be close enough at hand for them to shoot an intruder at a moments notice, you are putting a gun which is not safely locked up in a secure lock box (or else they'd never get it out in time), right near a load of kids. That's not a recipe for an accident when a curious kid finds it (about 200 kids a year die from gun accidents in the USA, and more adults - according to some statistics at least, they have a significantly higher rate of accidental death by gun per 10,000 population than our murder rate).
4)The mental health thing is a bit of a red herring - if mental health services had any way of knowing who was likely to go postal, the people would be locked up already. Other than that, if you seriously think that anyone with mental health issues shouldn't be allowed a gun (the commonly stated statistic is that this would include approx 25% of people), logically, you've also got to say that they shouldn't live in a house with a gun, which would mean probably a majority of people wouldn't be allowed guns. It would also be an active deterrent for gun nuts to seek mental health support, as they'd know their guns would get taken away, so could actually make things worse. So the only logical thing to do there is to argue for extreme restrictions on guns.
Joe:
USA : 32% -
Can - the document linked to above gave a 1998 estimate of 26% - there's plenty of discussion on the underreporting of firearms ownership in canada here:
USA Vs Canada crime rates:
and
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/its-the-guns-_b_1700218.html
Junkyard - MemberHold on were you not just complaining about ad hominems
The high ground argument was short lived
You're supposed to do as he says, not as he does. I'd suggest doing neither tbh.
I've not seen any mainstream accounts of this yet.
Is it still like this?
"And they blame it on Marylin and the heroin
Where were the parents at? And look where its at?
Middle America now it's a tragedy
Now it's so sad to see, an upper class city"
I'm guessing the scapegoat of today is xbox games and weed?
Nobody needs a car that can go faster than the speed limit
Primary purpose of a car: to travel from a to b.
Primary purpose of an assault rifle: to kill efficiently.
You, as an ordinary citizen, might well need a car. You certainly don't need an assault rifle. Public liberty has become confused with what amounts to a gun-fetish.
Well, I agree, 'legitimate' gun owners (hunting etc) don't need a fully automatic assault rifle.
But nobody [b]needs[/b] a car that can do 120+mph do they?
Speeding drivers kill far more people than guns in the UK.
Fatal motor vehicle accidents in which speed was determined to be a contributory factor [i]probably[/i] do outnumber gun deaths in the UK. However, many of those will have involved speeds of less than 70mph. So, even assuming we could govern all vehicles to that maximum, fatal accidents would still occur.
800 under 5's die every hour from illness and starvation.....nearly 7 million a year! maybe the 1st world gun owners (me included) should sell thier guns and do something usefull with the money, come to think of it no one needs more than 1 bike or phone or tv or car or pc etc etc. People in the future will look back on us and wonder why we did so little to help.
Speeding drivers kill far more people than guns in the UK.
Its because we regulate the guns unlike the americans innit
maybe the 1st world gun owners (me included) should sell their guns and do something usefull with the money
Bizarrely the folks in the US are rather good at philanthropy as well (e.g. Bill Gates). It's a difficult country to grasp
Junky - Big book of Science: page 1, chapter 1
[i]correlation is not causation[/i]
😉
Ah right so the lack of availability of guns in our country has no impact on the gun death rate and liberalising them would have no affect as it is just a correlation...interesting "scientific" argument from you as usual.
No holes in that one hence your "joke"
People in the future will look back on us and wonder why we did so little to help.
what we will be recorded as in history doesn't bare thinking about..
a pretty despicable nation of effete and braying self indulgent dandies I imagine
I think our (1st world) main problem is greed, we've confused being greedy with being successful, if you have more than you need you are a success.....praise the greedy ridicule the needy.
2nd amendment....Why?
it goes something like this
[i]800 under 5's die every hour from illness and starvation.....nearly 7 million a year! maybe the 1st world gun owners (me included) should sell thier guns and do something usefull with the money, come to think of it no one needs more than 1 bike or phone or tv or car or pc etc etc. People in the future will look back on us and wonder why we did so little to help. [/i]
You've not been to the 3rd world then? Maybe if their rich/powerful gave a toss, then we could be accused of doing nothing - but until those countries do more to help their poor, then I'm doing nothing else.
It not the best entry I have ever read for humanitarian of the year but fingers crossed for you
Perhaps you could flash it up on screen over this song and Merry Christmas
man with massive firepower kills lots of small children. I Say take away any possibility of massive firepower to any citizen and **** their so called constitutional rights. or at least legislate to anyone owning much more than a shotgun for vermin etc. Hugely deadly combat weapons do not belong in the hands of your ordinary person in the public arena. This is the only argument here. IT's just wrong and impossible to change which is sad cos this will happen again and again 🙁
Thing is Kevevs, a lot of folk can only get hard-ons with guns in their hands. Some of them here get hard just thinking about them, let alone using them. Imagine the cost of supplying Viagra to them instead?!?
well get those mixedup-****s in Gun therapy!
The coverage is getting pretty upsetting now - it's not like your normal shooting coverage - distraught presenters vissibly bordering on crying etc. I'm a bit shaken myself now.
Who the **** shoots a 6 or 7 year old with a rifle 11 times. I can't even begin to consider what it must do those trying to identify them.
What really concerns me is I think that the cats out the bag in terms of guns in the USA, there are millions and millions of illegal guns in the US and loads of recorded crime using illegal weapons....those states that have concealed carry laws have lower crime rates.
So the Americans it seems have so ****ed their country by allowing easy access to semi automatic weapons that it's become like nukes....ie certain countries have nukes and can't get rid of them because international security is effectively a mexican standoff. If the legal guns are gotten rid of, it does seem that there will still be plenty of illegal guns and crime will actually increase. 🙁
It has to start somewhere though...
But it won't.
For them all everywhere - possibly NSFW but its just about a gun 😉
Happiness is a warm gun
( bang bang shoot shoot )
Happiness is a warm gun, yes it is
(bang bang shoot shoot)
When I hold you in my arms (oh yes)
When I feel my finger on your trigger (oh yes)
I know nobody can do me no harm
Because
happiness is a warm gun, momma
Happiness is a warm gun
-Yes it is.
Happiness is a warm, yes it is...
Gun!
Well don't ya know that happiness is a warm gun, momma? (yeah)
Comes from an advert
I have the strangest boner.
Tough luck you aint getting any for months 😉
My youngest celebrated her 5th birthday party today along with 5 other friends of her age.
I can't imagine what it must have been like to experience what went on 🙁
We do not watch very much in the way of television so we have avoided to watch the news.
I don't think it would have been right to have watched coverage of it when we are celebrating the life of a wee 'un.
Will this event change the views of that country? I doubt it unfortunately.
nice one ho hum i can read the crap accent
🙂
I think it's totally precient if you live there to bring up the gun laws in a political conversation, especially if you are the president. Surely Obama could change one thing before his office is ended. these weapons have to end
.
If I didn't have the virtual outlet of the various incarnations of GTA over the years, goodness knows what I might have done in real life.
Sadly some of my more religious FB buddies have started posting this drivel.....
[img] 
[/img]
So apparently its not to do with crazy people and easy access to guns after all.
Cultivating an appetite for violence is not healthy for society. Wether or not you might actually be the next Thomas Hamilton or Michael Ryan.
Who knew that playing "cowboys and Indians" with toy guns would turn me into a mass murderer?
Not sure taking extreme views here will help
I think few of us will think that violence in games and society in general will help reduce violence but how causal it is in creating violence we can never really know.
FWIW experiments consistently show that kids who watch violent stuff then play more violently. I am not sure I would generalise this to mass murder but I would be sure it is not helping reduce violence
just been reading about Victoria Soto, one of the teachers who died. she hid her class in a cupboard and faced the gunman so he wouldn't look for them, telling him the kids were in a different part of the school.
that's ****ing brave that is. well done girl. rip
Is it standard practice to have cupboards large enough to hide a whole class full of schoolkids in?
i dunno, my school had big storecupboards that were certainly big enough to get the whole class in. but it was an old victorian/edwardian building so didnt really lack space
I struggle with long sentences but Morgan Freeman had this to say.. pretty sage I reckon
Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.
It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.
You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."
