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Thrashing around and slagging off and swearing about everyone outside your preferred little bubble is exactly what Johnson needs to get his majority
You might want to point that out to the libdems, did you listen yesterday? Far more time dedicated to attacking Corbyn than Johnson. Or, indeed to the likes of Binners.
get convincing people to vote to unseat Tories using tactical voting.
It really is this. This election is just damage limitation in my mind. There's such a risk that things could get very very worse.
Far more time dedicated to attacking Corbyn than Johnson
Yes, and the shadow chancellor (who I normally rate) seems to be spending all his time attacking the LibDems… I’m not claiming this missplaced energy is unique to this forum. In fact it comes from politicians at the top, and is then repeated by their tribal supporters. And it’s rife in all the opposition parties, and amongst their supporters. For this election, we either break out of this and work to defeat Conservative MPs, seat by seat, or accept a Johnson majority and spend five years arguing over who’s fault it is.
Does the birth of this thread now mean the Brexit thread is in stasis?
Added to the fact I live in a seat with a 66% winning Tory who has been there for 20+ years and the Leave vote was in the 60+%.
So there's literally no risk or downside to you voting for the only Remain party and you still won't do it. I bet you voted for a leave party in the last election too. At least then you had the fig leaf that there wasn't a national remain party.
This is exactly why the EU have recently accepted we're leaving. For a long while they thought a bit of delay and the opposition would stop Brexit. In the last couple of months they've accepted as fact that there's no plan to stop Brexit and no desire stop Brexit. Hence this last time they were considering giving a short extension to force Parliament to accept the deal and get it done. We're just a nation of whiners who are glad to have something to complain about. There's a risk we're going to prove it in the coming election. 🙁
There are very few Libdem/Labour marginals so LibDem attacks on Corbyn/Labour are tactically astute way to reassure soft Tory voters that its safe to vote for them. But...in a system for a two party election, the presence of smaller parties really muddies the outcome. Your vote for the wrong progressive party might allow the non-progressive party in (or the other way round).
I hope they let 16+17 yearolds vote though.
Election is a tragic idea right now. The next 5 years of Government decided on Brexit alone. What a shitshow.
I'm amazed Labour seem so keen, with JC polling worse than Michael Foot and no apparent election strategy......
Election Bill is now amendable. Let's see what opposition parties try lo to sneak in. Votes for 16-17yo, votes for EU residents!
I don't give a flying **** what the other LibDem policies are they're the only chance in my constituency of ousting the current Tory MP (it's a slim 2.5k majority in a previously LibDem town) and avoiding Brexit.
I'd urge any vaguely sensible person to vote for whoever has most chance of opposing the Tories in their locale (short of voting Brexit Party Ltd of course). To say "but but they're not giving me exactly what I want!" is missing the point as if you're not in the 0.1% the Tories certainly arent and Brexit will do no-one any good.
Either we all stop bitching and blaming and do all we can to defeat the Tories, or Johnson gets in by default.
Whether Brexit happens or not, I want a government that will start to address the huge social problems we have ignored since 2015
Otherwise, this election is going be all about taking out Johnson’s support in Parliament one seat at a time… tactical voting or Johnson as PM for 10 years… choose a path.
From the words and actions of Swinson et al over the past couple of months it's pretty nailed on that the lib dems will only consider allying themselves with the tories. If Johnson has most seats, they'll be crawling round on their knees looking for a few scraps. If Corbyn wins, they'll trot out the usual 'we can work with labour but not <insert leader's name here>'. This being the case I see little difference between a lib dem MP and a tory one. They had their chance to cooperate with labour and the other parties, and they chose to go their own way, as a result I'm sticking to my view that they can go **** themselves.
Corbyn looks like he's actually woke up from his usually stupefying torpor. I haven't seen him this animated since he lost the last election. Apart from when he does his weekly, 10 second, PMQ's shouty Youtube clip, he's normally catatonic.
If he actually managed to look this animated, instead of his usual bored health and safety inspector routine, the labour party might be actually polling higher in the first place.
For me its a choice between a reputable liar, an indecisive sleepy communist or Jo Swinson.
I see little difference between a lib dem MP and a tory one.
Liar.
go **** themselves
Grow up.
People like you will turn voters away from Labour, and Johnson will laugh all the way to his Xmas as PM.
Please calm down guys - throwing around ad hominems helps no-one.
From what I can see, the government has lost the vote to control the terms of the - if any - forthcoming GE. The rest is up to parliament to decide.
So there’s literally no risk or downside to you voting for the only Remain party and you still won’t do it. I bet you voted for a leave party in the last election too. At least then you had the fig leaf that there wasn’t a national remain party.
I will vote Green just as I always do as a Green party member thanks. They get about as many votes as Lib Dems where I live so will be helping to take a few of that 66% that the tory MP will no doubt be getting. As I said, I won't vote Lib Dem because they are shit - shit policies and a shitty leader.
Looks like Boris could yet resort to type and pull it if certain amendments are tabled.
It really is, like Trump, government by petulant toddler, isn't it?
Either we all stop bitching and blaming and do all we can to defeat the Tories, or Johnson gets in by default.
Whether Brexit happens or not, I want a government that will start to address the huge social problems we have ignored since 2015
I said God Damn!
Come together beat the Tories. Forget personality focus on the policy. Personality is where we got Boz from.
It really is, like Trump, government by petulant toddler, isn’t it?
The proposed amendments would almost certainly badly damage the tories. So not unexpected he wouldnt want to risk it as its already enough of a gamble.
Looks like Boris could yet resort to type and pull it if certain amendments are tabled.
That would be quite funny.....
Looks like Boris could yet resort to type and pull it if certain amendments are tabled.
Can't blame him entirely if the opposition parties try to tack on enfranchisement of 16/17-year-olds as an amendment. Perhaps they could also table an amendment which forces him to wear a dunces cap and a sign saying 'I am a lying ****' throughout the campaign?
I support enfranchisement, but this is a bit of an ambush.
martinhutch
Member
I support enfranchisement, but this is a bit of an ambush.
Not from the SNP point of view, they've consistently supported widening voting rights for a long time now
https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1189210635374092288
wacca wacca wacca
(actually even demob bercow isnt gonna pick this amendment)
Not from the SNP point of view, they’ve consistently supported widening voting rights for a long time now
I meant tacking it onto a bill which has a different purpose. TBH, it is the sort of major electoral change which requires proper debate and its own legislation. Then they can disenfranchise anyone over the age of 70, or who reads the Daily Mail at the same time.
EU citizens that weve just forced to get settled status makes more sense
especially as they are already on electoral roll & we let commomwealth citizens with similar settled status vote already
still wont happen tho
Of course they will never be in power anyway so voting Lib Dem is a waste of anybodies time.
No it isn't. Of course they won't win an overall majority but if there is a chance of replacing a Con MP with an LD that reduces the Con majority. My constituency is a marginal Con/LD, it has swung both ways in recent GEs. Currently Con but my feeling is there's a good chance it can swing back to LD. So it's not a wasted vote..
Election is a tragic idea right now. The next 5 years of Government decided on Brexit alone. What a shitshow.
I agree, Brexit shouldn't be decided by GE - especially as it's essentially a cross-party issue anyway. But, we may be stuck with it. So if you don't want Brexit and you think it's the biggest issue facing the country, then stuff all your normal voting practices and vote tactically.
I meant tacking it onto a bill which has a different purpose.
If the SNP can get something out of this they’ve been pushing for years, then why shouldn’t they?
@slowoldman, we need people like you voting LibDem. I’ll be thanking you if you get the result you want there. Good luck. Conversely a vote for LibDems here (instead of Labour) could mean we keep our Con of an MP. Time for cool heads and a seat by seat approach to stopping Johnson getting his majority.
If the SNP can get something out of this they’ve been pushing for years, then why shouldn’t they?
Worth a punt, maybe, but given that they professed to actually want an election, they shouldn't get too surprised or annoyed if Boris pulls the bill in response.
but if there is a chance of replacing a Con MP with an LD that reduces the Con majority. My constituency is a marginal Con/LD, it has swung both ways in recent GEs. Currently Con but my feeling is there’s a good chance it can swing back to LD. So it’s not a wasted vote..
And likewise, if there is the chance of getting a Labour MP over the line against a Tory, LD voters should be holding their noses and voting Labour if they are serious about stopping a hard(er) Brexit. Even if the Labour MP previously had a reasonable majority, as they could actually be hanging on for grim life come polling day.
The name of the game is preventing Tory MPs getting elected. In the relatively small number of constituencies which could pivot, both Labour and LibDem voters need to look critically at whether voting for their 'team' is going to allow a Tory to get in.
If they can stop the Brexit legislation, but have to wait ‘till 2020 for an election, it’s still job done for the SNP.
@kelvin - I've been a LibDem supporter most of my voting life (which is quite long now) so I'm the one to blame for the student grant firago. I'm lucky to be in a constituency where there is a good chance of an LD MP. If it was neck and neck between LAB and Con I would undoubtedly vote LAB, even given the uncertainty of their Brexit approach. Again, it potentially reduces the Con majority, which has to be the principle aim of anyone still wishing to halt Brexit. Or indeed anyone with any principles!
, we need people like you voting LibDem. I’ll be thanking you if you get the result you want there. Good luck. Conversely a vote for LibDems here (instead of Labour) could mean we keep our Con of an MP. Time for cool heads and a seat by seat approach to stopping Johnson getting his majority.
yep Id rather vote lib dem than labour but Tory majority went from 9000 to 1500 at last GE so really would have to go Labour
Be quite happy with a lab/lib coalition but fully aware that Johnson will probably win.
We're in the Skipton and Ripon constituency - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skipton_and_Ripon_(UK_Parliament_constituency) if the current MP lost then I'd be amazed as at the last election he'd more than twice the number of votes of the next most popular candidate.
People like you will turn voters away from Labour
Calm down man! I think you overestimate my influence on the result. The only power I have is my vote, and that's going to labour and no one here will be surprised about that.
As for the lib dems, there was a time not too long ago I was willing to give them the time of day. Then Swinson came along and blew all that away with her preening look-at-me-I'm-so-important politicking and barely disguised rimming of the tory backside. So sorry, they're getting no favours from me. I'd repeat my sentiments but I don't want to wind you up any further. Please try to remember that all of us have very little impact on this, so it's not worth losing your temper over. Whatever the result, life will go on.
Looks like Boris could yet resort to type and pull it if certain amendments are tabled.
Lets hope he does. The next move will be a VONC and an election at a time convenient for the opposition parties with EU citizens and 16/17 olds included. Boris is about to get a harsh lesson in parliamentary arithmetic and pissing off the DUP.
certain amendments havent been selected
Johnson will get what he wants
Johnson will get what he wants
I fear we may have to get used to that.
A December election is only in the interests of his party.
I will vote Green just as I always do as a Green party member thanks.
Then you're not a remainer, or not in any meaningful way. The greens are so extreme in their Euro-skepticism that Farage voted for them when he decided the Tories weren't Brexity enough for him.
Let's take a look at their current EU policy (I know you're familiar with it, but others might not be):
https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/eu.html
EU301 The present EU structures are fundamentally flawed.
EU310 The Green Party believes that the excessive influence of the Commission and its associated bodies compared to the Council and Parliament is both undemocratic and unaccountable.
The CJEU should be given a statute which defines and limits its powers
The CJEU should no longer be allowed to promote European integration in its judgements
EU401 The single market may be summarised as a massive restructuring of capital around a small number of large corporations and financial institutions
Not sure it's going to help where I am but I plan to vote for whomever is most likely to remove the career Tory yes man we currently have.
It’s the only approach that can neuter Johnson.
And that’s what needs to happen.
And likewise, if there is the chance of getting a Labour MP over the line against a Tory, LD voters should be holding their noses and voting Labour if they are serious about stopping a hard(er) Brexit.
Yeah, if you want a softer Brexit (if you think the EU will open up the negotitions a third time[1]) then Labour is the answer. If you want remain, then Libdems.
You're the first to spot Labours USP: Appealing to people who want Brexit but a different Brexit and are prepared to risk remain to get it. Quite a limited niche! I reckon leavers will just vote for BP or Tory.
[1] Personally, I think they would.
It all depends on the seat @outofbreath … there are so few Labour/LibLab marginals in a general election that your comparison is irrelevant for most of the UK. Just work out who can defeat the Conservative candidate in the seat you have a vote it, and vote for them. It’s the only way to neuter Johnson.
Quite a limited niche!
And an imaginary one. Problem is both the hard right and the useful idiots elsewhere will be pushing this line.
Let’s hope for a really cold, icy/snowy Election Day, keep the Tory voting old giffers at home