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I can't help but feel this is 'it'.
Corbyn has the smoking gun. The contents of that unredacted report are utterly outrageous (assuming the précis I have read is true) and run directly contra to promises Johnson has made.
This should be enough to unite people against Johnson, it really should.
Jezza has the means now, right now. He has to make this count, publicly, repeatedly and loudly. Make damned sure that Johnson has to answer questions about this document and how it runs contra to his assurances.
The labour party is a completely unelectable
As you say EVERY post. We haven't forgotten you know 😉
Let’s get stuck into what the NHS pays for drugs, and how that’ll have to change for Johnson to get his quick UK:USA trade deal…
There's more stuff in these trade talks docs than stuff about the NHS. Like the fact that any mention of climate change is banned by the US.
I can’t help but feel this is ‘it’.
Brexit alone should have been 'it'.
But it was fumbled into an irrelevance. Let's see if this is handled any better.
He has the lowest approval rating ever recorded for a leader of the opposition. Far worse than Iain Duncan Smith or Michael Howard. Thats not the fault of the press, thats the fault of Jeremy Corbyn
And you don't think that the approval rating is so low because of what the press have been saying about Corbyn for the last 3 years?
I am not a supporter of Corbyn as a leader as he is crap at it but he is not what the press have made him out to be and what the press say is all that a lot of people use to base their judgement on.
It is ALWAYS tougher for a Labour leader than a Conservative one, when it comes to the media. Johnson, Milne, Murray & Co don’t have the skills to work within that constraint… and there is still the suspicion that they are not even trying. Their aim is the long term transformation of the Labour Party, that matters to them far more than replacing the Tories as the party of government.
Now the right wing ****terati want Corbyn done for treason. Is there any end to the madness?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1199639844097531904?s=20
Interesting that it’s “sensitive” not “top secret”… there’s a whistle blower’s defence right there. Looks like it was leaked online back in October as well… journalists being caught on the hop… they have nothing genuine to defuse this story with, and nothing to pin on Corbyn. This one needs hammering home… it’s the one thing that can open the eyes of the public to what a Johnson pivot from EU to USA means… it is of very little benefit to the UK economy as a whole, and will be to the detriment of the NHS.
binners
Subscriber
They did when they encouraged Tory supporters to pay to become Labour members and vote him in – because they thought he would sink Labour.IT DIDN’T WORK.
You what? It couldn’t have worked better! The labour party is now a completely unelectable, impotent shambles that is about to lose yet another election to a chaotic government led by a far right narcissist. Not only that… its in the process of purging anyone who doesn’t worship at the alter of St Jeremy in a bid to make themselves even less electable. The front bench are gang of utterly incompetent, anonymous placard-wavers
So how do you define that as a success? Go on….
It’s not that Corbyn is unpopular from any frame other than the MSM’s reporting.
He has the lowest approval rating ever recorded for a leader of the opposition. Far worse than Iain Duncan Smith or Michael Howard. Thats not the fault of the press, thats the fault of Jeremy Corbyn
You Corbynites really do need to re-engage with the real world
The tory press have done a right number on you Binners. 😆
And there’s more… much more…
This is the ballgame, right here, right now.
How are the oppositions leaders' political instincts?
This should hurt Johnson, hes been saying he wouldnt do this whilst negotiating exactly that
there is no way NHS can afford to pay US prices for drugs
exact same drug costs 4x more in America than NICE pays on average, for newer drugs its often many (100s of) times more.
In America (& other countries) they are better at getting cheaper generics though
-which is why the governments concession to let patents run for longer from these documents is potentially very bad for NHS budgets.
of course Trump has been bragging about this for a while
Corbyn has the smoking gun.
Shame for him that its a starting pistol. The documents achieved more for him when redacted.
dont stop believing mefty !
Corbyn has the smoking gun. The contents of that unredacted report are utterly outrageous (assuming the précis I have read is true) and run directly contra to promises Johnson has made.
This should be enough to unite people against Johnson, it really should.
Jezza has the means now, right now. He has to make this count, publicly, repeatedly and loudly. Make damned sure that Johnson has to answer questions about this document and how it runs contra to his assurances.
This ^^^^
If Labour can't use this to totally undermine de Pfeffel then they should just give up. Maybe Labour released it a bit early in the campaign but at least it deflects away Jeremys terrible performance on Andrew Neils interview.
Hopefully Andrew Neil will grill Boris about this a bit, I'm sure he'll make Blohard look a bit more stupid and untrustworthy than Labour have done so far.
Now the right wing ****terati want Corbyn done for treason. Is there any end to the madness?
No and there never will be.
So - the well researched Andrew Neil - failed to mention that Lesley Perrin (the centre of his AS argument) resigned from the Labour party as she was being investigated some time early on.
So how much coverage does this get?
Warsi getting a very long piece on World at One right now.
Unfortunately for the faithful it's all lies. As the underacted documents are available the lies won't get much traction going forward.
All it does is play into the Tory narrative (here's the rebuttal):
“Jeremy Corbyn is getting desperate and is out-and-out lying to the public about what these documents contain. He has always believed in conspiracy theories – which is why he has failed to crack down on the scourge of antisemitism in his party. This is the man that has caused huge offence by blaming an imaginary ‘Zionist lobby’ for society’s ills and now he has decided to smear UK officials too.“People should not believe a word that he says – this stunt is simply a smokescreen for the fact that he has no plan for Brexit and that he has been forced to admit that he wants to increase taxes for millions of families.
“As we have consistently made clear: the NHS will not be on the table in any future trade deal and the price that the NHS pays for drugs will not be on the table. This sort of conspiracy theory fuelled nonsense is not befitting of the leader of a major political party
It’s shame that the “stunt” is a government document that lays bare what an UK:USA trade deal will be all about… and we will be DESPERATE to sign (for political reasons, not because it will do anything to help mitigate the self inflicted economical damage of Johnson’s Trump led Brexit).
So – the well researched Andrew Neil – failed to mention that Lesley Perrin (the centre of his AS argument) resigned from the Labour party as she was being investigated some time early on.
If that fact helps Corbyn's case then Corbyn is remiss in failing to mention it. Maybe Corbyn is part of the MSM consipracy to make him look bad. Makes you think.
lays bare what an UK:USA trade deal will be all about
One doesn't need to be perspicacious to realise that it would be all about trade.
It’s shame that the “stunt” is a government document that lays bare what an UK:USA trade deal will be all about… and we will be DESPERATE to sign (for political reasons, not because it will do anything to help mitigate the self inflicted economical damage of Johnson’s Trump led Brexit).
Surely this has been glaringly obvious to anyone with anything between their ears for at least three years now?
One doesn’t need to be perspicacious to realise that it would be all about trade.
...and we currently have a trade surplus with the USA, so there's no need to do a trade deal unless it suits us - we can walk away with "no deal".
Plus we're currently in a trade *and* political union with a couple of dozen countries who don't have state owned health services and it hasn't killed the NHS.
oohh a new word
nor do you have to be perspicacious to realise that we will have little leverage against the $20tn US economy in trade talks
We are going to get shafted by Trump & you just know he wont even have the goddamn common courtesy to give us a reach-around!
Loving the tory boys trying to pretend this is a hoax
you'd have better chance if Johnson hadnt ALREADY conceded to some of the US demands by removing legaly binding protection on rights, food & enviro standards from Withdrawl Agreement to meaningless political declaration
Surely this has been glaringly obvious to anyone with anything between their ears for at least three years now?
Whassup? You appear to have missed something 🙂
And awful lot of people still think a trade deal is just about tariffs.
Daz - a labour party worthy of the name would have spent the last 3 years pointing this truism it out, not spouting bollocks about 'honouring the will of the people'.
This stuff thats come out today is about as surprising as when we all found out George Michael was gay. You'd think the opposition* might have mentioned the fact that Brexit is a bloody stupid idea and this is the inevitable, wearyingly predictable consequence of it. Along with all manner of other shit
* the word is used figuratively etc...
we will have little leverage against the $20tn US economy in trade talks
Yup, so we may end up having to walk away and continue to enjoy our trade surplus with the USA. What we don't have to do is do a deal that doesn't suit us.
In contrast I'm not sure the UK had a veto over TTIP.
In contrast I’m not sure the UK had a veto over TTIP.
The UK (Dave) was the enthusiastic cheerleader for TTIP in Brussels. The rest of the EU vetoed it despite 'our' best efforts because it was a stitch up. So don't be in any doubt that the Tory party will happily sell us all out to the US, without a second thought
I’m old enough to remember Britsh Rail, British Leyland, the National Coal Board and British Gas.
None of them leave good memories, why would it be different this time around.
YOu do realise that our " privatised" utilities and railways are actually largely run by governent ownened and controlled companies? Just they are owned and controlled by german, french, italian and dutch government entities.
OPur high prices subsidise buyiners in those countries
Also Scottish water which is state controlled / owned is cheaper and performs better than those privatised English water companies
“Rebecca Long-Bailey”
What is that the answer to?
Is it really “who shall we send in Corbyn’s stead for the next leaders debate?”
Loving the tory boys trying to pretend this is a hoax
Not sure anyone has questioned whether the document is real, what has been questioned is whether the document provides anything to back up Corbyn's claims - and the pretty universal conclusion from the journalists present is that it doesn't, one example quote
Right. I'm going to call it. These documents don't say what Labour says they say.
They are technical talks, from non-political negotiating teams, exploring each others' systems, and indicating areas for future discussion.
YOu do realise that our ” privatised” utilities and railways are actually largely run by governent ownened and controlled companies? Just they are owned and controlled by german, french, italian and dutch government entities.
Yes.
So why doesn't the UK govt force them into supplying the kind of service that the UK wants? I suggest it's because they don't want to.
So if they are running the show, from the top down, with their hands fully on the tiller, will they have any more reason to do so?
Well, along with other documents the USA have already released, this document makes it clear what areas the USA want included. And Johnson has made it clear he wants a quick deal, and Truss has made it clear the the deal won’t be voted on by parliament. Work the rest out for yourself.
In contrast I’m not sure the UK had a veto over TTIP
except it did, look at the fuss Walloonia (sp?) caused over CETA
and the Tories who were one one the biggest proponents of TTIP, ask Liam Fox
Boomerlives - the UK government has little control and as tories do not want to use what they have. So what is unique about the UK England that the english cannot run utilities and monopolies but the scottish government and the rest of europe can?
and the pretty universal conclusion from the journalists present is that it doesn’t
I look forward to the nation's top journalists taking apart the tories claims with such forensic zeal. I don't actually care whether the docs provide evidence or not. What's interesting, and encouraging, is that labour are starting to play the tories at their own game. It's achieved it's objective by getting everyone talking about something other than anti-semitism, and getting them talking about the tories relationship with Donald Trump and their intentions regarding the NHS. Well played I'd say.
This stuff thats come out today is about as surprising as when we all found out George Michael was gay.
My girlfriend at the time and her Mum burst in to tears when the news broke. Me laughing and wondering why they hadn't worked it out sooner didn't seem to go down too well!
YUp
NHS had already moved up the voters topics of concern. This is a very good play and ne they can keep on hammering on at.
the UK government has little control and as tories do not want to use what they have.
I would point out, in the interests of balance, that Blair and Brown had a perfect opportunity to flex their muscles in this respect but chose not to.
Calling it a Tory issues is disingenuous, it's been a UK issue.
And Scottish Water do have an advantage of having such an boundless supply of product 🙂
This will no doubt make the main bulletins:
Norman Smith, BBC:
Is there any evidence or proof that the British government is willing to say yes to these US demands?
Barry Gardiner, Shadow Trade Secretary:
No, absolutely not.
The question is, does anyone trust a Tory government not to say yes to the demands, despite their current protestations.
I think it's a given.
Mind you, Trump might be gone by Xmas
I think it’s a given.
Mind you, Trump might be gone by Xmas
US Pharma had the same stuff in TTIP under Obama
Yup, so we may end up having to walk away and continue to enjoy our trade surplus with the USA. What we don’t have to do is do a deal that doesn’t suit us.
This isnt the case though
We are about to throw up barriers to our biggest market
Unless we can strike deals elsewhere to offset that then our imports cost us more & our exports are less desirable
This is why we are going to get shafted in a trump/usa trade deal
Here’s the headline though, a trade deal with the USA can’t/won’t offset anything… it’ll be a political not economical decision to sign one, and do so quickly, to look to be doing something useful with Brexit.