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Collectively fist bumping seems perfectly reasonable when the Leave vote is split between two parties and only one party is offering revoke.
Fist-bumping whatever ... I just hope most of the politicians in the main parties get the sack.
Weak govt and weak opposition.
How much fist bumping would Boris be doing if the BP quit and left him as the only place for leavers?
Who is BP? Brexit Party?
No chance Brexit Party will quit in the North coz there will be a few surprises coming that way.
I know many working Labour voters here and they told they would vote for Labour on domestic issues but the current political climate they just want out. Non of them want to vote Labour at all let alone Lib Dem.
No chance Brexit Party will quit in the North coz there will be a few surprises coming that way.
Which would be good news for remainers...
I see only one hope for an outcome that might at least give a chance of another referendum and it involves to some extent people who won't be able to vote. I really think that the remain / second referendum camp needs to to be talking to the 16 - 25 year olds in the country to talk to their parents and even more importantly their grandparents and ask that in this election they put the long term interests of their future first. Just because 16 and 17 year olds don't have a vote doesn't mean they can't have an influence. We need a Gretta Thunberg to tell us older people that this really isn't just about what we want for the next few years.
Which would be good news for remainers…
I know the working class (in the North East) don't like Tories/Labour/Lib dem so will vote for Brexit Party.
I suspect many of the Labour supporters will go to Brexit Party as magic grandpa is not performing the magic for them. As for Lib dem don't even mention the name Jo Swinson as you either get a good laugh or get told off for mentioning her. (I did ask them about their views on Swinson and I got so much grief by just asking ...)
I see only one hope for an outcome that might at least give a chance of another referendum and it involves to some extent people who won’t be able to vote
If you go for a 2nd referendum before the 1st one is being implemented you might start a proper "civil war" ... I dare the politicians start a 2nd referendum before the 1st one is being implemented.
We need a Gretta Thunberg to tell us older people that this really isn’t just about what we want for the next few years.
I have spoken to a lot of older people and they think they are acting on behalf on younger people and they will be better out of the EU so not sure how that would work out.
We need a Gretta Thunberg to tell us older people that this really isn’t just about what we want for the next few years.
The kind of people who are prepared to listen to 16 year olds are the type of people who'd never vote for Brexit or the Tories anyway.
And the kind of people who voted for Brexit and the Tories won't be listening to 16 year olds s they think they should be doing national service in the army, reaserting the British empire, or some other misty-eyed neo-colonial bollocks
This country is a ****ing shambles, the biggest change to the country for ever should not be decided by a ****ing post code lottery voting system. Thats not democracy!
My vote will basically be wasted once again....
This country is a * shambles, the biggest change to the country for ever should not be decided by a * post code lottery voting system. Thats not democracy!
My vote will basically be wasted once again….
Just vote for what you like then sit back to let the nature takes its course.
What seems very worrying at the moment is the amount of MP's who are standing down. If you look at the names, they seem the half-decent ones
It seems like more and more moderates are being driven out of both main parties, or just giving up
If we think the MP's we're got at the moment are bad, no matter who 'wins' the next election, the standard of our elected repesentatives looks like being considerably worse after December.
Both front benches are already stuffed with incompetent, idealogical nodding-dogs who are there purely for their capacity to unquestioningly worship at the cult of both 'leaderships'.
My constituency has a Con majority of 22,000 🤮 - it’s hardly worth voting
Brexit was 50/50
Is that a date set in the bill or dependent on something else.
I think, but aint 100% certain, its part either of normal election law or just standard practice. Day of election - x days to allow for all the associated admin to be completed especially postal ballots.
If you go for a 2nd referendum before the 1st one is being implemented you might start a proper “civil war” … I dare the politicians start a 2nd referendum before the 1st one is being implemented.
Actually of course I should have said 3rd referendum, as the last one was overturning the referendum of 1975. I'm not sure how you can oppose further referendums in principal if you think the second one in 2016 was legitimate.
<span style="font-size: 12.8px;">And the kind of people who voted for Brexit and the Tories won’t be listening to 16 year olds</span>
My hope is that it might be different if those 16 year olds are their grandchildren. I'm not talking about massed 16 year olds on the streets in a general plea to the population of voters but individually sitting down with the people they know asking them to think carefully about how they vote.
Not a hope in hell. If the current situation hasn’t persuaded them to reconsider, a teenager certainly won’t be able to.
you might start a proper “civil war”
1) Don’t worry, we’ll fight to keep you out of the internment camps the English Nationalist side in that imaginary war will be setting up for you.
2) This is just the same stuff that “the other thread” is full of. Take it over there.
Where can I look at a full list of MPs standing down?
I’m not sure how you can oppose further referendums in principal if you think the second one in 2016 was legitimate.
Indeed. It's an argument that Leavers will employ with equal validity the day after a second ref. (If they lose which is only a 50/50 shout.)
Ergo referendums are not the solution.
Oh give it a rest. The libdems are not going to win the election. They are about as far from credible as it’s possible to be.
I remember a lot of people saying that about Trump in the US and BoJo here.
I remember a lot of people saying that about Trump in the US and BoJo here.
This.
...and there's a clear reason why the LibDems could win this time:
Leave vote is split.
Revoke vote is not split.
In 2017, we were 49.2% blue, 43.5% red. Ukip, Lib dems and greens all lost their deposit.
Guess that makes it pretty simple.
I just wish someone had offered up an ammendment suggesting that if the GE fails to show a single party majority, it would trigger a referendum. Otherwise, nothing is actually going to change.
...and there’s a clear reason why the LibDems could win this time:
You're too funny.
Believe it or not quite a few people are interested in policies other than Brexit.
Lib Dems have as much chance of winning the GE as the Brexit Party. Two single issue parties at either end of the spectrum.
Other than 'revoke' what policies do the Neo-Lib Dems have that weren't copy and pasted from old Tory manifestos?
Where can I look at a full list of MPs standing down?
Is that those who are retiring or those who don't know they are retiring?
Why do commentators keep alluding to the tories being in trouble in the southwest?
Hopefully JRM is included.
We have a parachute tory as our mp. Guards, City, then a safe seat and knighthood.
Was a Cameroon. Sacked by May and refused to campaign for her last time round. Anti Boris but now pro.
Remainer now a leaver and will be back in parliament by Christmas.
Depressing init.
…and there’s a clear reason why the LibDems could win this time:
Leave vote is split.
Revoke vote is not split.
The problem is, the voting system we have is a load of shit and people keep voting tactically rather than voting how they actually want. Until this changes we are stuck with 2 party politics with the libdems every now and then doing 'ok'....
people keep voting tactically rather than voting how they actually want.
Got any evidence for that? I would think most people do not vote tactically at all.
…and there’s a clear reason why the LibDems could win this time:
Leave vote is split.
Revoke vote is not split.
Revoke is not split, however, remain is split, as Labour are offering a referendum which could lead to remain.
I voted remain, I believe we should remain, however revocation is not the path to that in my opinion, as it will hand over the narrative to the hard leavers that the system is corrupt.
In reverse, how happy would people be if the vote had been for Remain, but then Brexit party campaigned to ignore that and just invoke Article 50?
Got any evidence for that? I would think most people do not vote tactically at all.
No obviously I haven't got any evidence of that. But read the thread and you'll see it happens....
Turns out that Johnson isnt the one in charge at number 10
https://twitter.com/AmberRuddHR/status/1189532275710582785
Vacant: one Conservative nomination.
Only Hard Brexit drones need apply.
I presume Rudd voted with the whip while May was PM?
She stood in for her at TV debates in 2017 when others in her party were already out to get her.
How many MPs showed “ill discipline” by stopping May taking us out of the EU, yet are now in government?
I just hope Jeremy Corbyn actually has the grace stands down after his forthcoming defeat in December so we can get an effective opposition for once. I fear it's going to be a hard right Con/Brexit party coalition for the next 5 years.
Nah, many of us are going to vote for Labour to stop Johnson, and then our votes will be taken as a vindication of Corbyn’s leadership, and a Labour Brexit, and he’ll cling on for a good while yet. I’m resigned to that narrative, but have to vote to try and get rid of our Tory MP anyway.
Corbyns going nowhere.
I think the labour narrative will be the same as last time:
'yes, he's shit and we lost, but he's not as shit as you said he was going to be, and he didn't lose as badly as you said he would'
I believe the technical term is 'managing expectations'. It only works with the terminally gullible and those with unimaginably low expectations, but that seems to be what constitutes the membership of the Labour party nowadays.
Defeat is victory. Another 5 years of Boris will be sold as 'an opportunity to transform the party under Jeremy'
No obviously I haven’t got any evidence of that. But read the thread and you’ll see it happens….
You said it as though it was fact and until it stops there will always just be a 2 party system. Yes it happens from a very few politically savvy people but as that will be less than 1% of the population (see I can make up stuff too) then what you said is just rubbish.
Corbyns going nowhere.
I thought Corbyn and McDonnell were both going to stand down if they lost? We will have to see if they are as bigger liars as Johnson.
Not a hope in hell. If the current situation hasn’t persuaded them to reconsider, a teenager certainly won’t be able to.
The current situation is conflict and accusations flying everywhere, that persuades no one it just entrenches positions.
I'm not talking about being harangued by anyone but about the people with the most to lose speaking to those with the in reality nothing to gain.
Out of interest, anyone have a rough guess on how many Scottish remainers are unionist?
I thought Corbyn and McDonnell were both going to stand down if they lost
McDonnell has said he will. Jezza's said nowt. Seamas probably hasn't given him permission
Of course folk are already voting tactically. Time and again we see, hear and read of folk saying "I'd vote LibDem/Green/AN Other if only they had a chance of winning". It's been going on as long as I've been aware of politics (at least 50 years) and probably precedes that. That's the inevitable consequence of FPTP and an electorate that can't see past the immediate GE.
@Kelvin - Interesting piece of daydreaming the Neo-Liberal Democract manifesto.
I guess even they don't believe they will ever get the chance to implement it (unless they jump into bed with their mates the Tories again and sell their souls for tit bits), hence their overwhelming reliance on a single issue to keep them in the news rather then pushing the rest of it.
As I said, they're a single issue party, and they're as much extremists as the Brexit Party on that one issue.
Brexit Party, Conservatives, Lib Dems - Three different shades of Tory.
they’re a single issue party
They are not. They just have a position on the most immediate question facing the UK, as do (nearly) all the other parties, and so obviously the focus is on that right now.
Three different shades of Tory.
Labour needs to grow its support, fast, and claiming that everyone outside the party, and indeed many inside the party, are all Tory is a sure fire way approach to permanent opposition. Labour need to look like a party of government looking to improve the UK for all its inhabitants, not a small group of navel gazing smelly men at the back of the pub shouting abuse at everyone not at their table.
Brexit Party, Conservatives, Lib Dems – Three different shades of Tory.
At least the tories and the brexit party are consistent. The libdems are the worst kind of weather-vane politicians, chasing power simply for the sake of it, and then doing nothing with it if they get it.
people keep voting tactically rather than voting how they actually want.
Got any evidence for that? I would think most people do not vote tactically at all.
Wiki seems to think a lot can, I was very suprised by this number 🤔
In the 2017 general election it is estimated that 6.5 million people (more than 20% of voters) voted tactically either as a way of preventing a "hard Brexit" or preventing another Conservative government led by the Tactical2017 campaign.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki
Tactical voting - Wikipedia
Not surprising really is it @Taxi25… FPTP means you are voting for one MP, and most people understand that when they vote. Choosing your second or third preference candidate because they have the support locally to possibly win, when your first choice candidate clearly does not, is very common.