[Closed] 10% could not identify a sheep

How so, Del? Explain please.

Interesting thread, this. I live in a market town in North Wiltshire, population nowadays 39000. When I were a lad the town was, literaly half the size. While it's a rural area, the town is, or was, pretty industrial, the main employer when I was at school being Westingouse Brake and Signal. Rudeboy would know about them, as they supplied brakes and signals for most of London Underground. As a result I was brought up by a dad who was an engineer, but who was born and raised in a little village about eight miles away with a population of around two hundred. As a result, I used to get taken for walks out into the countryside and be shown animals and plants and birds, an interest I still have forty years on, but I also have an interest in the wider world that is just as involving. I am appalled at the level of ignorance around, but not at all surprised. When it comes to country people being rude and unwelcoming, is anyone on here really [i]that[/i] surprised? When you see the way that visitors behave it's difficult to refrain from punching people in the face. They arrive thinking that a village is just some sort of fancy theme park, leave cars in totally inappropriate places blocking gateways and field entrances, allow dogs to run riot through flocks and herds, complain because their shiney car has got muddy, or they got woken up by birds making a noise, the church bells ringing, or the nearby farm smelling funny, then have the affrontery to complain to the local council and demand that the noise is stopped and the smell made to go away! FFS, what do these moronic ****s expect, it's a place where people work, with everything that entails. Trouble is, these people get away with it because they have a lot of money, they've just bought a farmhouse from a family who have gone bust after farming there for five hundred years and they now want everything just the way THEY want it. Can you imagine the resentment that stirs up? It's like me moving to London then demanding the Tube line behind my house gets shut down because I don't like the noise it makes at night. Dumb, dumber, dumbest.

Rudeboy would know about them, as they supplied brakes and signals for most of London Underground.

I did, actually! In fact, I understand most bits of tube trains are made outside London.

When you see the way that visitors behave it's difficult to refrain from punching people in the face.

ALL visitors? I can understand the resentment towards irresponsible people, sure, but most visitors to the countryside are in fact very responsible and mindful of respecting locals.

As for respect of the places where people work; many areas are heavily dependent on tourism, for their livelihoods. And who eats the stuff farmers grow?

Mostly, people get along fine. But some (that's 'some',not 'all'), rural folk need to be mindful that it's us city dwellers who contribute toward their livelihoods, and perhaps remember about biting the hands that feed them. IE, if I come to visit, I may spend money in hotels, B+Bs, pubs, restaurants, shops etc. This money goes towards supporting the local economy. If the locals don't want that, then how do they expect to survive?

I think it's often more about 'this is moi laand, clear orf'. People don't wanna share something nice with others, for fear of it getting ****ed up. I can understand that. Not many people who pass through my 'village' give a toss, considering the amount of pollution, congestion, rubbish, etc. I just have to put up with it. I don't resent 'outsiders' that come here, though.

[i]People don't wanna share something nice with others, for fear of it getting ****ed up[/i]

Is that why the East End is so unwelcoming? 😉

Heh!

It's not that unwelcoming, BD! After all, I live here! 😀

I agree with everything you've written CountZero.

A wealthy towny friend of mine bought a converted barn in a rural area. Her hubby dug a huge pond and couldn't understand why they didn't have ducks in it. I gave up trying to explain that ducks aren't pets and they need a pond with mature plants in. Every time we visited they moaned about the noise the sheep made and the morning dawn chorus.

However I do think it's important for families to bring their children to the countryside, if only they would respect it and not just trundle 50 metres from the car, leave their litter and dog mess and run the car engines in the carpark'cos it a wee bit colder than they thought.

Oh and only 8% of the population have ever seen a badger.

I've seen Badgers, foxes, voles, deer, muntjac, rabbits, hares, many species of bird,including Kingfisher, Peregrine falcons, Sparrowhawks, Kestrels, and a ferret.

All within the M25!

And if I want farm animals, this place is only a couple of miles away:

[img] [/img]

Not all of us Townies are ignorant of nature.

Countzero is absolutely right and makes some very valid point...

Oh and only 8% of the population have ever seen a badger.

I've seen quite a few badgers - unfortunately every single one of them has looked something like this:

[img] [/img]
[size=1]Credit: [url= http://www.eskimomedia.co.uk/ ]EsikmoMedia[/url][/size]

Do they come in more lively varieties?

Like Rudeboy I've seen kingfishers, owls and woodpeckers in zone 3 -4 of the tube map and a heft of other indigenous wildlife is available within zone 1-6, you don't need to go to the countryside to see them. The country side is dull and there isn't a great deal to do in general other than wonder round over some miserable farmers land and visit villages full of resentful locals. And don't get me started on country pubs. Don't you just love walking into a pub and the metaphorical tumbleweed crosses the lounge bar whilst 10 ruddy faced locals with male pattern baldness and v neck sweaters stare at you in a most unwelcoming way.

Give me a big anonymous city any day

Give me wilderness to ride in but urban living space

amen to that

Some of Rudeboy's comments are making me think of Withnail and I in the tea shop in the lakes.....

We're going to buy this place and have it knocked down

Where I live, in a very small town in Wiltshire, the majority of businesses don't rely at all on tourism. I Moved here from Essex 7 years ago and haven't seen anything of the negative attitudes towards outsiders, quite the opposite in fact. I would agree with Rudeboy about the multicultural aspects though. It's one of the few things I dislike about the place, the lack of diversity. I don't really know how you'd encourage people from different backgrounds to move to the country though.

Don't you just love walking into a pub and the metaphorical tumbleweed crosses the lounge bar whilst 10 ruddy faced locals with male pattern baldness and v neck sweaters stare at you in a most unwelcoming way

I've walked, camped and biked all over the west of the country from Devon to lochinver, I've been in a fair few pubs. I've never yet met a bunch of locals looking uninviting, I just stroll in smile and nod and order a drink. There was a time when I was paranoid and thought everyone was out to get me, fortunately these days I've got past that and realised that people just glance over to see the new faces. I've noticed I glance over at new people coming into my local. If you walk in expecting unpleasantness you'll feed that back and you'll get unpleasantness. IME.

Djglover, have you ever thought that your problem with country pubs might be something to do with you? Been in quite a few round here, never had any issues. If people are looking at you, they might be interested in who you are, since despite Rudeboys theories most only really see local trade. I'd recommend talking to them, that normally works 😉

The countryside is not dull, it's beautiful. Cities are, on the whole, busy, smelly and ugly places, but fascinating all the same. There is room in my world for both.

Maybe you've never been to Gloucestershire 😉

Yup, I have 😀

The countryside is not dull, it's beautiful. Cities are, on the whole, busy, smelly and ugly places, but fascinating all the same. There is room in my world for both.

Of course.

And in both, you will find friendly, welcoming people, as well as nasty types.

As for the tourism thing; many areas, like places near trail centres, for example, as well as places in the Lake District and National Parks and that, rely on tourism for a large chunk of their income. So, you want the coin, then you have to put up with extra numbers coming in to your little village. Or, move to a town, and get a job there. As idyllic as it may seem, to want to live amongst wilderness and nature, you've got to pay the bills. You can't have it both ways.

most mountain bikers I know can't tell an oak from an ash or a sweet chestnut from a beech tree, a hereford from an angus, a buzzard from a red kite and so on. There are several degrees to appreciating the countryside.

Wunundred!

You can have it both ways Rudeboy, I've lived in a cottage wedged between farms, about half a mile from the nearest house, at least 10 miles to the nearest town. I worked 15 miles away, I have a car 😉

The national parks are not really typical of the countryside in general. I'd agree in those areas that a lot of trade is tourism based. You have to see it from their point of view as well though. In 2012, I'd imagine that loads of people are going to make it hard for you to go about your normal business. Is that not going to nark you a bit, even if you appreciate why they are there?

I was once in london with someone from Oswestry, travelling in a cab we rounded the corner into Parliment Square - "wow look at that big clock!!!!" she exclaimed, true.

We did piss ourselves laughing at her.

I've never yet met a bunch of locals looking uninviting,

I've been in a couple in Wales where they have been openly hostile, presumably because we are English.

I've been in a couple in Wales where they have been openly hostile,

yeah, ironic considering I AM Welsh 🙁

I have no problem with visitors to the countryside, but could all of those who bring their food in supermarket carrier bags, in the back of the car, please take the empty containers and wrappings home with them in a bin bag in the back of the car to dispose of in a proper bin; Rather than leave it to blow around the "beautiful scenery" they've just visited for said beauty.
It distresses me to think that those who leave rubbish, bagged or not, at their wild campsite/picnic spot really think that someone is employed to trail after their inconsiderate a**e in a bin lorry.

I once got some disapproving looks from several Public School mummy's boys when I re-deposited their discarded MaccyD wrappers into the sunroof of mummy's car which they were eating lunch in.

Made my day.

In 2012, I'd imagine that loads of people are going to make it hard for you to go about your normal business. Is that not going to nark you a bit, even if you appreciate why they are there?

No, actually! As there will be means to get about easily, apprently. And I hope to be at as many of the events as I can get to. Although I am opposed to the enormous cost, and environmental impact of the Games, they are a fact, and I'll be proud to enjoy them, along with millions of others, in my Home Town.

Im pretty sure there'll be a bit of mess to tidy up afterwards. Hey ho.

Well that puts my 2 year old ahead of at least 10% of the population!

Granted, just going for a walk needunt cost a fortune, but that seems a bit staid and boring, for many people brought up on the thrills and spills of the big city.

IME, one of the key areas of ignorance I have experienced, in some rural folk, is of the diversity of ethnicity and culture, within our vast and varied society. The language skills of some I've met, have been woeful.

How many city dwellers actually speak any language other than English?

Ooh, I'd say a million or so. In London alone. [url= http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/224407.html ]Where over 300 different languages are spoken.[/url]

I can't speak for cities such as Leeds, Bradford, Manchester, Birmingham, etc...

I thought it might have been obvious that I was talking about those city dwellers for whom English was their first language 🙄

Any thoughts on how many of those people speaking other languages also speak English (I'm struggling to see what's so great about 150,000 speaking Punjabi)?

Come to that, how's your Gujarati, Rudeboy?

I thought it might have been obvious that I was talking about those city dwellers for whom English was their first language

Erm, you simply mentioned 'city-dwellers'. Many of whom happen to have origins other than just British. Forgive my lack of telepathy, for not being able to see such an obvious point...

Any thoughts on how many of those people speaking other languages also speak English

Quite a large percentage, I'd say.

I'm struggling to see what's so great about 150,000 speaking Punjabi

Yes. I can imagine you'd struggle, with such a concept. Mind-blowing, is not it? 🙄

Come to that, how's your Gujarati, Rudeboy?

Non-existant, actually.

Erm, you simply mentioned 'city-dwellers'. Many of whom happen to have origins other than just British. Forgive my lack of telepathy, for not being able to see such an obvious point...

Or when you wrote "IME, one of the key areas of ignorance I have experienced, in some rural folk, is of the diversity of ethnicity and culture, within our vast and varied society. The language skills of some I've met, have been woeful." were you actually complaining about the lack of ethnic minorities in the countryside who spoke Punjabi natively? 🙄

Back in yer box, aracer. Don't try turning this into something it's not. I've not taken anything you said out of context; you've simply failed to put your thoughts across propply.

The level of education in SOME rural areas can be SOMETIMES quite poor. Plus, with limited interaction with others, SOME local people fail to develop good language skills. By this, I mean they struggle to understand different dialects, and can lack the ability to communicate in a clear and effective manner, with others outside of their local community.

This is also true of SOME people who live in cities.

I'm not attacking 'country folk' , I'm just trying to understand why SOME resent outsiders, and why relations between Townies and rural folk can SOMETIMES be difficult. And I've posted some of my own observations and opinions. OK?

If it's any help, I have some Gujarati:

ek, bey, tron, char, panch = 1,2,3,4,5
cobis mattu = cabbage head - which may be appropriately applied to RudeBoy and aracer

RudeBoy, most of your opinions seem to be that of someone who has never left the "safety" of the Greater London metropolitan area.

Likewise some of the other posters seem never to have visited a city.

I suspect those of us in Scotland and "the North" may have an easier time of this because "the city" and "the countryside" are not separated by a three-hour drive, hence it would be really very unusual for someone up here to have never seen a sheep.

as far as i can tell RB you have simply fallen back on the stereotypical view of country folk as straw chewing 'yokels'. obviously as a highly educated 'city dweller' you are the very pinnacle of sophistication, as your observation that 'city folk' could adapt to life in the country far better than 'yokels' could adapt to life in the city, ably demonstrates.
using quotation marks does not make prejudicial frames of reference any more palatable or justifiable, nor does use of the phrases IME or IMO, or reducing things to 'us' and 'them', despite all your 'can't we just get along' claptrap.
in MY experience, treat as you find, and would expect to be treated, and most people can get along with most others, in most normal life situations.
people are all the same, with differences. 🙂
anyway, i'm getting back to the bike forum, where i belong..

No no no...

I'm NOT stereotyping ALL rural folk; please read my posts propply.

GrahamS; when I was growing up, I would stay with relatives in a small village in Cornwall. Have been there many times. I've also been to several rural areas of Britain, including Wales, the Lakes, Yorkshire Moors, etc, etc.

Notice that I wrote 'SOME', in capital letters, to emphasise that I am not generalising about ALL country folk!

'city folk' could adapt to life in the country far better than 'yokels' could adapt to life in the city,

Yes, I believe many could, actually. City life is far less routine than a fair amount of rural daily life, such as farming. And there is a lot more intellectual stimulus to be found in large metropolitan areas. Likewise, rural life can enable an individual to develop a more finely tuned understanding of nature and ability to cope with the environment they are in. and the ability to be able to identify sheep.

I have friends who come from rural areas. Who tell me about the narrow-mindedness and ignorance of some people they've known in these areas. So, from the Horse's mouth, as it were.

And, coming from an inner-city area, I can vouch for the ignorance, bigotry and narrow-mindedness of many people here.

Notice that I wrote 'SOME', in capital letters, to emphasise that I am not generalising about ALL country folk!

Granted, but when you say it in the context of:

The level of education in SOME rural areas can be SOMETIMES quite poor.

then you are implying that this is a discriminator between rural and city education. Which fails to acknowledge that SOME inner city schools rank very poorly indeed and that [url= http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00513/school_table_513406a.pdf ]many rural schools outperform city schools[/url].

I've never yet met a bunch of locals looking uninviting,

I've been in a couple in Wales where they have been openly hostile, [b]presumably because we are English.[/b]

Are you sure? Without knowing where you were or how you were acting, it's difficult to comment, but I've never had a problem with taking English friends anywhere in Wales. Obviously, if you were wearing an England football shirt and went into the Ninian Arms in Cardiff on match day, for instance, you might be ready for some aggro, but that would be a separate issue.

From recent experience though, if a group of loud English people walk into a pub in Wales and act like hooray henrys then they are likely to incur some hostility.

From recent experience though, if a group of loud English people walk into a pub in Wales and act like hooray henrys then they are likely to incur some hostility.

That appears to be working is you change wales for Nice, Spain, Poland or any other low cost destination.

The thing is, Rudeboy, given your observations could equally apply to SOME city folk living in SOME urban areas, and that there are plenty of country people who don't conform to your stereotype, your observations are essentially worthless!

FWIW I've always been a country person in a way - where I grew up I could see sheep from my bedroom window, despite the fact I lived in a town. Have lived in three cities though - one of them being London - and the town I grew up in was just on the edge of London, so I visited there extensively. I feel reasonably well qualified to comment therefore (and rather better than people who've never lived outside a city, only visited)!

The King makes good point, you make your own welcome in a country pub. My local is quite remote, being a couple of miles from a classified road road in a village that is population 5 in two addresses.

We all look forward to some new company, and often chat with visitors to the area when they pop in.

But plenty walk in and won't make eye contact, won't return the time of day, won't chat to the Landlord and then sit down with their backs to everyone. Then there's the ****ing cavers (don't get me started...)

These are probably the people who get to work on Monday morning with tales of The Slaughtered Lamb etc.

your observations are essentially worthless!

I feel reasonably well qualified to comment therefore!

So, because you fail to see the point I was actually making, and instead only see what you want, you are 'well qualified to comment'?

GrahamS; my point about education in some rural areas, would also apply to that in some urban areas too. But the kids in the cities do have more access to many more forms of intellectual stimulus, and opportunity for interaction with other people, than their rural counterparts.

Oh, and FWIW; most of my experiences of rural areas have been fantastic, and I've encountered some really lovely people.

indeed. and some of my best friends are gay. 🙄

GrahamS; my point about education in some rural areas, would also apply to that in some urban areas too.

If it applies equally to both then why only make it about one?

But the kids in the cities do have more access to many more forms of intellectual stimulus, and opportunity for interaction with other people, than their rural counterparts.

What "intellectual stimulus"? Do you honestly think the city kids are busying their weekends visiting art galleries and going to the theatre?

And do you think that "rural" kids never leave "the countryside" or visit a city?

I'd guess that it is probably far more common for a rural dweller to visit their local city for the day than it is for a city dweller to visit the countryside. A guess that is apparently backed by this (dubious) report.

I reckon that all but the most insular of "rural dwellers" would still be able to identify the equivalent city flora and fauna.
I can't imagine a similar posting with:

- 10% of country folk can't identify a Starbucks.
- 22% of rural adults could not identify a mad tramp. 1 in 10 thought he was was a telephone box.
- Two-thirds didn't understand a pedestrian crossing.
- 32% referred to the underground train as "the metal worm".

So, because you fail to see the point I was actually making,

What "intellectual stimulus"? Do you honestly think the city kids are busying their weekends visiting art galleries and going to the theatre?

Loads, GrahamS; come on, you know what I'm on about. And yes, many city kids are involved in something stimulating on a weekend. There's loads of yute projects and activities on offer; come down, and I'll show you some. I've got friends in Yute Work, who'd be only to happy to show you what work they do with kids.

Stop being so black and white about this.

 

Yeah, but there are loads of youth projects available to rural kids too. Though admittedly they are more aimed towards actually educating and entertaining the kids, rather than just keeping them off the streets and away from knives and drugs 😛

Stop being so black and white about this.

Man it always comes back to race with you doesn't it? 😆

Anyway, I'm not. I'm simply disagreeing with your polarised views. I've lived in big cities, moderate towns and little villages. I see the spectrum.

Though admittedly they are more aimed towards actually educating and entertaining the kids, rather than just keeping them off the streets and away from knives and drugs

Of course, you're such an expert on Yute Work in an inner city, aren't you (I've worked in this field myself,and know what really goes on, not just what you watch on telly)?

Cheezuz...

Man it always comes back to race with you doesn't it?

Yeah, course it does. Must be this chip on my shoulder, eh?

Maybe it's 'cos I've never lived in the country. That must be why I'm so ignorant about everything, of course.And why you're sooo clever, eh?

Please, try to read things propply, before commenting.

RudeBoy - Member
Please, try to read things propply, before commenting.

Chill RudeBoy, you are far too easy to tease. Remember your blood pressure. (Must be all that city stress)

My point was, you were giving a one-sided example again and by doing so you were implying that [u]only[/u] city kids get access to [i]"many more forms of intellectual stimulus"[/i] from youth projects. Which simply isn't true.

Maybe it's 'cos I've never lived in the country. That must be why I'm so ignorant about everything, of course.And why you're sooo clever, eh?

Or maybe it's because your [i]"I'm a cockney: London is the greatest place in the world and everywhere else is shit"[/i] attitude sometimes clouds the opinions that you express here.

And I'm not claiming to be sooo clever. I'm just pointing out that claiming the country is full of uneducated yokels isn't a fair statement.

You cant beat a good stereotype !

My point was, you were giving a one-sided example again and by doing so you were implying that only city kids get access to "many more forms of intellectual stimulus" from youth projects. Which simply isn't true.

Nope. You've mis-quoted me. again.

"But the kids in the cities do have [b]more[/b] access to many [b]more[/b] forms of intellectual stimulus, and opportunity for interaction with other people, than their rural counterparts."

See?

i don't mind a discussion, but please refrain from deliberately mis-quoting me, and taking my comments out of context. You are intelligent enough to understand my comments propply (unlike someone else..), and you will know that I have stated certain facts, and made some good points.

The whole point was to discuss issues of misunderstanding between rural and urban folk. I think this has now run it's course.

Or maybe it's because your "I'm a cockney: London is the greatest place in the world and everywhere else is shit" attitude sometimes clouds the opinions that you express here.

You're just being a Silly Billy, now....

You are intelligent enough to understand my comments propply (unlike someone else..)

please refrain from deliberately mis-quoting me

but please refrain from deliberately mis-quoting me, and taking my comments out of context.

are these not standard rhetorical techniques ?

I have stated certain facts

say rather 'posited certain hypotheses'. Facts may exist but we only have our own subjective interpretations of events

Me? Misquote? I hardly think that's likely...

The whole point was… You are intelligent… and made some good points.

urban folk… do have more… intelligent… interaction with other people
and you will know… I have stated… kids in the cities have more… intellectual… issues… and… I think… Silly… urban folk… have… a… misunderstanding… of… their rural counterparts.

😛

[i]- 10% of country folk can't identify a Starbucks.
- 22% of rural adults could not identify a mad tramp. 1 in 10 thought he was a telephone box.
- Two-thirds didn't understand a pedestrian crossing.
- 32% referred to the underground train as "the metal worm". [/i]

Sorry to backtrack a bit. But I larfed at this, thank you.

😆

LOL!

Nice one Graham...

And do the yute in Laaahndaaaahn not need Yute Projects to give them something to do rather than raping old ladies and dealing smack? I was under the impression that yokel yute didn't need yute clubs because they went fishing, learnt to recognise various sorts of trees, got off their tits on strong organic cider etc.

😉

I've never yet met a bunch of locals looking uninviting,

[i]I've been in a couple in Wales where they have been openly hostile, presumably because we are English.[/i]

Are you sure?

No, I just made it up, I was imagining it when I was followed into the toilet and they 'joked' about the '****ing' English.

Without knowing where you were or how you were acting, it's difficult to comment,

But you will anyway and jump to fatuous conclusions to boot?

For what it's worth it was the Station Inn in Porthmadog.

Hard to tell how people mean what they say, but the welsh, as with the scots, have a distinctly dry sense of humour which can come across as hostile. It's down to how you take it IME, I've spent months in total all over Wales and yet to hear anyone comment unless we were rowdy, and then a quick joke back with them gets a laugh and it's all smiles.

What disappoints me is that so many know about the countryside. If there were less than there would less idiots coming out and then wanting the rural areas to provide entertainment and totally out of character stuff like public loos, and tourist centres. why come to the country side to have it like home. Its like going abroad then eating English and expecting the locals to understand you. Must admit cyclists are as bad as anyone in that respect. complaining about a lack of showers at Cwm Carn. the whole damn building shouldn't be there.

Smiffy: are you talking about The Hunters' Lodge?

I'm usually in the back or side room on Friday's between 7:30 and 9pm.

[i]"kids in the cities do have more access to many more forms of intellectual stimulus, and opportunity for interaction with other people, than their rural counterparts"[/i]

err, really, how so? Do explain?

BTW: I'm rural and a bit slow on the uptake. Is RudeBoy aka PaddedBra aka FredDibnah? It's a wild guess.

Watch out, buzz - Rudeboy will accuse you of misquoting, you've left a couple of words off that quote.

When I went to uni there was a cow field nearby. One of my friends saw cows for the first time and was amazed how big they were. She expected them to be about the size of labradors...

some amusing stuff in there

I think you learn about what surrounds you as it is unavoidable and what interests you because it interests you

I know the obvious stuff, but I'm no professor of the countryside, I live here and work in it.

I'm pretty ignorant of towns and cities as I don't live there and have little desire to be there. This lack of knowledge makes it a daunting place, highlighted by the rumours and media to give an impression of drugs, stabbing, shoot-outs, hoodies, gangs, clamping, theft, highly strung people - why do I want to go?

And we defend what we like and know.

Lived in the Countryside, and now living in a small city (Beijing) I soooo miss the Countryside, the rolling hills, the arguments with the walkers for not getting out of the way in time (yeah I do have that now)
I blame the parents (in the UK)( and Government, for cutting back on transport services), for not taking their offspring to see what marvels are in the countryside.
Last year took the wife, camping for the night, North of Beijing, it was her first time camping under the stars, camp fire, cooking food, freezing in the morning dew... loved it, can't get enough of it.
When we got back to Beijing, first thing she said was thank you, as if she hadn't met me, she would never have been introduced to the outdoor life.

buzz-lightyear - Member
Smiffy: are you talking about The Hunters' Lodge?

I'm usually in the back or side room on Friday's between 7:30 and 9pm.

What a dreadful pub the Hunter's was last time I was there! Poisonous beer and matching landlord. Always preferred the New Inn...