Nicolai Saturn 16: did someone say water bottle?

They cater to people 210cm tall, with a bike with a reach of 570mm (for the 29er - lets be honest, no-one a hair off 7ft tall will be running 27.5), and a wb of 1391mm.

0_o

Wonder how many of those they're aiming to sell?

Not that I will get one but are the frame sizes missing from the top of the table shown?

Not that I will get one but are the frame sizes missing from the top of the table shown?

They are indeed, full info on their tech sheet here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vTLbwN9LqbrNpG5BN9b5Iqwm45bmMFH0xbwFMi-ylaACQZ3tQ93VUP5_I0PgWiyBpRbEWGhQWL_QV0u/pubhtml#

small - medium - large - x-large - xx-large - xxx-large

Scary to think that at 187cm I'd not be on their biggest size (I'd go XL). Unlikely to be buying one, not because I don't REALLY want one but because I've got a Saturn 14 and it's more than enough bike for me.

That looks AMAZING!

Those reach numbers are ridiculous. Longer than the G series.

Struggling to see where this fits in their line-up, if the main difference between the G1 is head tube angle why not just supply some headset cups?

490 reach with a 440 ST and a 78.25 STA sounds pretty sensible to me. A long but not crazy long medium.

That’s stunning, thought they’d have gone for an eight pins dropper though!

That CNC machining is pure filth.

At 6ft 3in, I'd 'only' be on an XL, I'm normally on the biggest size on most bikes!

Knowing how few new models Nicolai release, this could be a replacement for my jeffsy in a year or 2.

I'm loving the look of that - looks very 'delicate' for a 160mm enduro frame, though I suspect the weight savings are offset by the extra material and bolts of the mutators. Frame weight would be interesting to see (and to compare to the G1)

It definitely sounds like there's some customer feedback informing comments about 'more universally applicable Geolution Trail concept" and "agility". It would be interesting to ride as the reach and chain stays are still still huge - I'm on the cusp of XL/XXL and compared to, say, a Nukeproof Mega theres an extra 40mm on both reach and ETT(seated reach) and 13mm on the seatstays and 60mm on the wheelbase. It's still going to feel like a big big bike.

If the main difference between the G1 is head tube angle why not just supply some headset cups?

Indeed - especially given all the other adjustability. Surprised that this doesn't have more conventional fit measurements too.

Frame weight would be interesting to see

3.6kg according to the tech sheet

That just ticks all the boxes for tall people. Long reach/ETT, proper sized head tubes so decent stack, nice short seat tubes, proper seat tube angles (not stupid effective v actual)

At 195cm (6'5"?) I think I would go for the XL rather than XXL - could have a 240mm dropper with no issues (might be able to squeeze it into the 520mm ST on the XXL, but need to go measure).

it's all fantasy though, still rocking my long black pole 🙂

proper seat tube angles (not stupid effective v actual)

I don't think it is actual is it? The number given is stated as effective and the tube runs from in front of the bb. Certainly better than many (no bends, not yards in front of the BB) but it's not entirely "actual" either.

(I'd very happily have another nicolai, I loved my cc, I'd also be tempted to go xl at 196cm, I'd like to try the xxl but can't see it suiting me to pedal at all. I wonder if "buying yet another bloody bike" can be cited as unreasonable behaviour?)

After initially dismissing this as not figuring out where it'd work for me, thinking more it'd actually be the perfect replacement to consolidate my current FSers into one (Saturn 14 and a Geometron G15). The Nicolai/Geometron approach works for me but always been worried that the next logical step - a G1 - would be too much as a single-bike option for what I ride. A Saturn 16, however, with two setups: shorter-stroke, lighter air shock for 150 rear equipped with lighter wheels for general use, and a longer-stroke coil shock for 160 rear and heavier wheels for uplifts and Alps. Maybe in a couple of years.

First ride review HERE.

looks very ‘delicate’ for a 160mm enduro frame

Apparently the same weight as a G1 frame - weights from Nicolai's frames page:
Saturn 14 130mm, 2.95kg
Saturn 16 150/160mm, 3.6kg
G1 162/175mm, 3.6kg

At 195cm (6’5″?) I think I would go for the XL rather than XXL – could have a 240mm dropper with no issues (might be able to squeeze it into the 520mm ST on the XXL, but need to go measure).

I reckon you'd j-u-s-t about manage 240mm dropper on the XXL/520mm ST. I'm 187cm (33" inside leg) running a 200mm Brand X dropper on a XL G15 with 500mm ST and about 5-10mm to spare. A shorter-stack dropper (like the OneUp) and your extra height might just about be enough.

My current bike (XXL size... ha!) has a 485mm ST, the XL Saturn 16 has a 475mm, the big difference being insertion depth, I'm currently limited by a kinked seat tube on a carbon frame meaning 275mm max insertion. The Saturn 16 looks like it could take 400mm or more...

Oh and last time I checked I had 290mm from collar to rail, so I'd still have 30mm spare on a oneup 240mm post.

I reckon you’d j-u-s-t about manage 240mm dropper on the XXL/520mm ST. I’m 187cm (33″ inside leg) running a 200mm Brand X dropper on a XL G15 with 500mm ST and about 5-10mm to spare.

I'm not sure one of those numbers can be right - even at a teeny 160mm crank length and no extra stack for collar saddle etc...

200mm seat post
500mm tube
160mm crank
= 860mm to the bottom of the pedal stroke from your saddle

33" is 838mm

Appreciate its angled back vs a near vertical for your pedal stroke but that sounds like a lot of extra length to lose to a steep angle. (860mm at 76° sa would give a vertical drop of 834, no saddle and no seat post stack)

(as it is i'd get a 240 in my process* but not with masses to spare the St is only 482mm by comparison and I'm 4" taller with another 2" on my inside leg)

*well I wouldn't because bendy seat tubes but...

Going by my measurements you'd need to find another 20mm with a 240mm post on a 520mm ST - fairly easy to find with 5cm more overall height, slightly thicker pedals, lower stack saddle etc.

I’m not sure one of those numbers can be right – even at a teeny 160mm crank length and no extra stack for collar saddle etc…

200mm seat post
500mm tube
160mm crank
= 860mm to the bottom of the pedal stroke from your saddle

33″ is 838mm

Not sure it works as simple as that - my current bike:

290mm rail to clamp
485mm ST
175mm cranks
= 950mm - 37.4"

In traditional inside leg measurement I'm a 33" but doing it the way with a book shoved up 'there' I measure at 37".

In traditional inside leg measurement I’m a 33″ but doing it the way with a book shoved up ‘there’ I measure at 37″.

4"? I hope for your sake the book in question is sized for a dolls house.

Apparently the same weight as a G1 frame – weights from Nicolai’s frames page:
Saturn 14 130mm, 2.95kg
Saturn 16 150/160mm, 3.6kg
G1 162/175mm, 3.6kg

"delicate" - meant in a good way. Nicolai have never built with low weight as the priority so I'd expect this to be more than tough enough.

I wonder if that's with or without shock?

Again, in comparison the Nukeproof Mega Carbon (I just bought one so have the figures to hand) is claimed at 3.82kg (which may or may not include the supplied X2 shock c660g and headset)

I don't think weight is especially important on this sort of frame, but interesting that there's no real difference between carbon and ally now (although still possible to make alloy frames much heavier - Transition Sentinal I was looking at 3.2kg with shock in carbon, 4.4kg !! in alloy)

4″? I hope for your sake the book in question is sized for a dolls house.

That's a relaxed trouser inside leg Vs a proper bike inside leg book method. My point is they're 2 different ways of measuring, so you can't just take a trouser inside leg measurement and apply it to a bike.

Better to measure based off your current bike anyway.

That’s a relaxed trouser inside leg Vs a proper bike inside leg book method

Sorry I maybe should have put a 😉 or 😬

But yes, I take your point

Again, in comparison the Nukeproof Mega Carbon (I just bought one so have the figures to hand) is claimed at 3.82kg (which may or may not include the supplied X2 shock c660g and headset)

There's a review on wiggle which gives the actual weight of a medium carbon Mega with shock of just over 4kg, so 3.3kg without shock/headset.

If Nicolai's weight is more accurate that puts it at 4.4kg with the same shock same headset, 3-400g more. Not too shabby.

Sorry I maybe should have put a 😉 or 😬

But yes, I take your point

I'm over 40 now, things start to erm... sag in certain areas 🤣😁

What's the buying process like in the UK direct from Nicolai? Prices are in euros with 19% vat so I'm presuming that would be removed and 20% paid on import.

Asking for a friend, of course... 🤨

UK Distribution is through Geometron isn't it?

Thought that was just the Geometron G1?

As in all Geometrons are Nicolais but not all Nicolais are Geometrons.

Not sure, nicolai list them as UK distributor but its entirely plausible they only deal with the g1

I am 190cm and can fit a 240mm post on a xxl g1. (500mm seattube)

It would be interesting to ride as the reach and chain stays are still still huge – I’m on the cusp of XL/XXL

Of course easy enough to ignore the size guide and just ride a Large for 515reach with a massive long seatpost.

How big is too big? On a size XL I'd be able to run a 265mm one up dropper, if they made one that big.

The wheelbase at 65mm longer would see me having issues hanging it in my garage too... 😆

Not sure, nicolai list them as UK distributor but its entirely plausible they only deal with the g1

Popped in to see the Geometron guys this afternoon, expect to see their own version fairly soon I'd say. I had a quick look and pedal up and down the drive on their prototype, so hardly an extensive test, but looks and feels good. More of a direct successor to the G15 (a bike until recently I owned and loved) but with all the improvements in adjustability and adaptability that have come from the G1. Vertical shock is going to be a huge bonus for those of us who like to manage with just a bottle for shorter rides, and though it's still in the LLS camp compared to most, it definitely feels quite a bit more manageable and "normal" for those of us not riding flat out on big terrain all of the time. Running a 230mm eye to eye EXT shock (with spherical eyelets still) they're saying just over 140mm rear travel with a 57.5mm stroke shock and combined with a 150mm fork the BB looks and feels suitably low enough.

Looking at the raw numbers, the geometry doesn't look drastically different to the G15 (a slightly steeper seat angle aside), which in my book is no bad thing (the G1 is going nowhere for those who require the extra length and stability and get out of jail free attitude it brings). I've demoed a G1, and impressive as it was, I found after a while I started to feel more of a passenger on the bike than I wanted, and going back to my old G15 I could only put this down to it being longer/lower/slacker than my usual trails warranted or my riding ability could deal with. I'm sure given more saddle time on one I'd adapt and start to love it, but my G15 was a bike I jumped on and felt instantly at home on on my usual trails and though it didn't have travel in reserve, it coped with anything I could throw at it and pushed my riding on somewhat too...

If and when my knee recovers fully so I'm not reliant on an eBike indefinitely, then I expect I will order one sooner than later as it seems to address my only criticisms with the G15 (lack of bottle space, relatively tight rear tyre clearance, slight firmness off the top of the stroke) perfectly.

Ooh nice, I did see a couple of posts from Geometron that they have a new bike coming and it could only be their version of the Saturn 16.

View this post on Instagram

For anyone interested, looks like there'll be some news over the weekend from Geometron:[url= https://i.postimg.cc/VN9n5g5C/Screenshot-20220415-144111.pn g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/VN9n5g5C/Screenshot-20220415-144111.pn g"/> [/img][/url]

Nice prices for Nicolai Saturn 14, 16 & G1 on Bike Components at the moment. Available off the shelf too. So tempting.

I didn't think bike-components.de shipped to the UK though?

https://www.bike-components.de/en/Nicolai/ - nice prices indeed and quite a contrast to the prices of SC, Transition, etc frames.

I've had my Saturn 14 for 18 months now and it's lovely to ride - nice stable partner alongside a burly Geometron:

Anyone taken the plunge and got a Saturn16. As a taller chap the numbers are appealing to me.