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STW are at +13 minutes
MoreSTW are at +9 minutes
Thanks @savoyad.
I will have a look at the numbers and come up with some suggestions at least for the first section.
It's been quote a while since I've been out to play on a Thursday, (or zwift full stop for that matter) have there been any changes to the format for STW or is it still "do what Phil tells you "?
@savoyad is their space in more stw, ive had a tough run session today and wouldn't last in stw
@karnali sign up - there is certainly either space in MoreSTW or time for us to persuade you STW will not, on this occasion, be too much for you.
I've already dumped @w00dster in it, @yanboss has been off the bike for a while, @mbs would probably prefer MoreSTW as well. I'd like to get the Bs right across the two teams. It's hard today for some reason. A queue of people who'd really favour MoreSTW might indeed result in reinforcing MoreSTW - but it might also result in STW becoming a more manageable ride.
If you haven't been on for a day or two, there's a Zwift update to do. Give yourselves a few more minutes prep.
Good point @slowpuncheur.
It makes a change which matters as well: new pack dynamics are now standard in all events. The extent of the change is not actually obvious to me, but something is different now. It seems like pacelines are more important but also easier to manage, and blobs are less effective than previously. No promises though.
I am going to leave it fairly fluid for tonight as follows.
Pull order
Robbo - 60s @ 280w
Slowpuncheur - 60s @ 280w
Jack - 30s @ 270w
Haloric - 30s @ 270w
Zilog - 30s @ 270w
Drew - 30s @ 270w
If Karnali joins us then 60s pulls at 280w.
Aim is to revert to pulls on the flat, blob on the short hills. Through the esses hopefully we can give haloric and Jack rest before we hit the volcano.
On the Volcano slowpuncheur will lead us up at about 3.2/3.3 w/kg - the draft works so this should put Haloric and Jack at about 3.0 w/kg. We don't want to exceed that as we want to stay together.
After that it is fluid - see how it goes. Keep the comms up and let me know if you want a rest from the rotation. Similar approach up the reverse KOM but it is steeper on the first section so lets go at a good pace for everyone.
If you do join us Karnali then you can cover the back and then perhaps swap with Paul when we hit the flat bit of the volcano in the middle.
Oh and check your tags - there are quite a few wrong ones!
@karnali I can't put you in MoreSTW, it'll drag them up a coffee class into frappe. Let's leave them in latte.
So you ride STW - but trust me (I'm basing this on the team numbers & composition) and @phil56 (he's a good road captain) that it won't be inappropriately intense tonight. You can control some of it yourself as well by sitting in. Providing draft is a good service to others.
And @w00dster this is a chance for you to move across to MoreSTW. I think you should ride STW tonight - to help get the intensity right amongst other things. But I know you have a standing preference to ride with MoreSTW. If you insist, go ahead and choose to ride with them. Let @robbo1234biking and @phil56 know your choice - last minute in discord is probably fine; both know what they'll do with you if you are there! If I've got these calls wrong, tell me after the event...
Final lineups:
STW, + 13 minutes: @phil56, @munkeymadness, @karnali, @dangeourbrain, @w00dster, @yanboss, @mbs
MoreSTW, + 9 minutes: @slowpuncheur, @robbo1234biking, @drew, @haloric, @zilog6128, Jack
Check your tags. It's chaos at the moment. Direct link: https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=1899809
@savoyad I’ll ride with STW and hang on as long as I can. I’ll update my tag now.
I’ve upped my mileage over the last few weeks and my legs feel dead, be interesting to see how I get on.
Thanks for sorting, I'll see how long I can hang on, and hopefully no drop outs this week
@w00dster @karnali You'll be fine guys, tonight needs to be a steady ride to last the distance. The plan is to ride at a pace everyone can sustain and get everyone to the end together
The key to this is communication - I'll check, but make sure you let me know how you're feeling.
We'll work hard, but not to the point it stops being fun
Cheers folks, it's been a while but i enjoyed that. Been a while since I've been able to make it but pleased I could this evening.
That was great work to stay on briggs and as ever well done Phil keeping him with us.
Really enjoyed that! Probably my best TTT in terms of pacing and feeling good throughout the whole ride... it was a tough pace, but sustainable (apart from right at the end when we were tussling with that other team 🤣) Did struggle consistently hitting target watts for the pulls though... overshooting, then under, then massively over as I tried to compensate 😂 Does everyone else use 1s or 3s power on Zwift for these?
I'musimg 1s power and seemed to have loads of jumping around issues tonight. When I thought I was putting in the effort for 400w I found it reading 500w more than a few times.
thanks STW enjoyed that tonight after a tough run session and first swim back in the lake (brrrr 7 degrees is cold for me) I did find my watts a bit all over the place as well and also slower to respond so did lots of yoyoing through the group. Also i must learn to draft I'm sure it would make things much easier than constantly riding like a stabilser out to the side.
thanks Phil for the slightly easier pace tonight and excellent riding by the other Martin to hang in there on the 2 climbs.
I use 3 second power but would say I struggled tonight to get a consistent output as well. Something Zwift updated in the background perhaps?
Anyway onto the TTT. Well done MoreSTW - that was a great ride. I think we paced it really well. Dont think there was more than a 5m gap at any point which on that route for that amount of time is an amazing effort. We must of got the pace right as we were able to stay together. Great comms as well. We had to lend two of our team to STW tonight (mbs and w00dster) but we seem to be settling in well working together.
We expected to keep STW away until the Volcano so to keep you guys at bay until the KOM reverse was pretty good (from our perspective). We got a little tangled on the descent - thought w00dster was joining our team but forgot you are pretty lightweight so we caught you quick.
I think other than STW only one other team passed us. We made about 4/5 passes I think and pulling through from the back seemed to work really well. We didnt seem to get knackered or have to overdo it on the passes at all.
Some screen shots from the evening.
Nice paceline at the start
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Climbing the Volcano - good pace setting by slowpuncheur
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/xdjYZYcf/IMG-4710.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/xdjYZYcf/IMG-4710.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
The descent of the Volcano
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/nLdZb5Dv/IMG-4711.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/nLdZb5Dv/IMG-4711.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Just beating STW to the Reverse KOM banner!
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/ZRCmTc8X/IMG-4712.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/ZRCmTc8X/IMG-4712.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Robbo, I was doing over 500 watts and couldn’t break free from you guys, Phil was “asking me politely” to get a move on, but it was like I was riding in sand.
I think my brain switched off and couldn’t work out who was who.
In terms of my performance, it was tough. Only 237 watts for the duration which is low for me. But I really struggled to hold anything over 260 watts. I’ve upped my mileage, Tuesdays training ride included 300 watts for 2 minutes at 60rpm, that’s like a squat work out. I then did 30 miles Wednesday morning, legs were really heavy feeling today.
Excellent effort by Martin, much better determination than me. I’d have folded and pretended it was my connection!!
Apologies w00dster. We backed off after the banner to try and let STW go before the descent started but we got a bit tangled. We never seem to get an overtake in easy place when we tangle together - always seems to be on a downhill which means there is little anyone can do about it - gravity just takes over!
Greater London 8 next week so another hill in the mix! Similar gradient and time to complete the hills as well. A lot shorter though!
https://zwiftinsider.com/route/greater-london-8/
I managed to watch some of that last night. You lot rode really well. The tangle at the top of the reverse KOM was more fun to watch than ride I think.
It looks like the new entry system (no more zwiftpower tags...) is going live this week. If it does happen, it will change how we enter on here. I'll post details as soon as they are settled.
Just reading about the new updates on ZI, anyone notice if the new pack dynamics were active? Wasn’t aware of the update so wasn’t paying attention to that, I guess they were though judging by the neat pics of our pace line posted earlier? Must help the TTT as it would naturally make your group bigger as you can’t occupy the same space anymore, therefore the draft zone is bigger?
To me the dynamics seemed better, at least we seemed more lined out than normal.
Quite hard to say.
If the new entry system arrives, that will be a small step forward toward a real time trial mode where other teams don't interfere with each other. We didn't come across any rogue riders last night, although one team was a bit sticky.
The passes went well, i think by not accelerating too soon and being blobbed to the last minute really helps.
I bailed with cramp as we entered the volcano so a bit disappointed, but would have died at some point, having seen the state of Jack today.
I was going to mention the updated dynamics. I think it's a real improvement. The sticky draft is less noticeable and as you say @Zilog6128 we seemed to settle in a paceline more. There was a bit of erratic swerving at times but it felt like the AI was waiting for a gap to slot you back in the line sometimes. I liked it.
It was a really strong team effort last night. Jack really dug in up the KOM. Maybe the longer TTT's with slightly less intensity suit us more?
I bailed with cramp as we entered the volcano so a bit disappointed, but would have died at some point, having seen the state of Jack today
Pass on my thanks - he rode a really good ride and communicated to us well which meant the gap never grew.
@drew you seemed to enjoy the longer rider as well?
Yes, I really enjoyed that, favourite one so far. It really suited me as I was able to recover well on the two climbs and I seem to be able to manage slightly longer distances as long as I don’t have to go too deep along the way. I thought the pacing strategy worked really well too.
Oddly re the dynamics I found them worse and outside of the TTT I can see them playing havoc with races.
It seemed there was a sweet spot of about 5w where I'd hold the wheel in front, anything over and I pulled way over and out of draft. that made passes much easier but trying to stay in a group was more difficult because as soon as I eased off slightly to try regain the wheel I fell off the back as I had no draft and was a fair chunk under the rider in front.
It didn't seem related to my actual power so much either, almost as if it recognised any increase in effort as an attempt to move up. Given that at the best of times my power trace looks like a himalayan skyline that made it hard work.
Worked much better whilst I was in draft in terms of allowing me to deliberately pull forward and seemed better on the passes but deliberately dropping back when I was in draft was rubbish as ever and needed a bit of a kick to break off forward before falling back. If anything it seemed more sticky in terms of slipping back when i was in than before and made sitting in and resting much easier than previously.
(it occurs to me that a few of you mentioned having very spikey power yesterday so could actually be that rather than the change in dynamics)
yes comms were great from everybody, all the passes went really well also!Pass on my thanks – he rode a really good ride and communicated to us well which meant the gap never grew.
Glad that the feedback seems to be positive (cramp not withstanding).
The new capability to not quit zwift worked well as well. I went in the pen at 7.10. Then left and went back into watopia for my warm up all without restarting Zwift!
For the team I was in the pack dynamics seemed all over the shot. It was like our avatars were trying to perform some kind of complex dance! I thought it was also just a little easier to fall off the back.
Defo easier to fall off the back, happened to me a few times. But the Avatar would often move to the left of the pack and not be sheltered, I’d have to put in a little kick to get back in the group,then I’d accidentally drift to the front.
Looking at my intervals.icu file lots more spikes for me, only small bumps but quite often.
Also looked at my overtake and separation from MoreSTW, 60 seconds average of 336 watts, 20 seconds at 420 watts, for me being 95% into the race that effort was hard work.....luckily we were just getting into the last couple of Km’s where we upped the pace again!
Everyone join pen A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1934716
False alarm (!) - entries haven't changed. Same system as usual for now.
This week it's 1 lap of Greater London 8, so very flat until Box Hill. And the fun of staying together up that escalator.
I'll get teams posted ASAP. Early signups --> early teams!
I'm in 😟
As ever, I don't care which team I'm in but FWIW I'll take at least 8 mins up Box Hill
@savoyad , that link is to zone 11 - 19:15 start. Is that right ? (I entered 12 as usual)
Argh it's the wrong link and too late to edit it now. Don't use that link!
Sign up here, pen A: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1934728
Thanks @scaredypants
Signed up - rather short this week so a good opportunity if anyone is lurking or thinking about returning to the fold as should be over relatively quick!
Looks like the new sign up system is imminent. Sounds like a pain that every rider will need a wtrl account linked to their zwift id and has to join via the magic link!
Yeh I noticed that Nixie - I hope that it doesn't put people off. It only takes minutes to sign up but I am aware that some people are careful who they want to share data with etc. Once you have done it once it should be easier hopefully though!
Yay ! from WTRL.
TTT #101 starts a new era of NO MORE FIXED TAGS.
I like the substance of this change. But I don't like the fact of change - more specifically I don't want extra form filling to be the hassle that puts someone off. Anyway we'll all now need an account at WTRL.
So everyone who rides TTT, please go here and make one https://www.wtrl.racing/registration.php
We don't have to use them this week, we can give the zwiftpower tags a swansong, but compulsion is coming. Let's get ready.
Also: sign up for this week here, cat A: : https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1934728
10 signed up so far. Anymore takers/lurkers?
With regards to the change - Im not sure why WTRL have persevered with correcting peoples tags post event for so long - I kind of view it as tough luck/shit happens if something were to go wrong with the tags and that is the team's responsibility. I certainly wouldn't want to be spending hours doing it for other people.
I hate that WTRL website. It’s worse than Lings Cars. Is there a separate entry form thing there or is it enough to sign up the usual way then WTRL use our Zwift ID?
Signed up and signed on to WTRL. I agree about that website. It's a mess. I'm assuming it's a different protocol from next week onwards...
@paino unfortunately not. After the 2 weeks grace period (this week and next week) sign up has to be done via the WTRL website. You still have to join the event in companion app like normal but rather than setting your tag you will have to sign on to the team through the WTRL website (unless I have misunderstood @savoyad)?
This is where I am struggling to see the benefit for riders as having the tag doesn't cause me any issues - changing in ZP takes seconds, so the benefits are to WTRL (which is fair enough - having run a race series anything to make your life easier is welcome - if you can focus on the racing not the admin it is bound ot lead to improvements)