Zwift Team Time Trial, Thursday

Same here scaredy, wouldn’t let me leave the pairing screen. Was trying from 30 seconds to go. Everyone left then it took me to Richmond.
Absolutely gutted. Think I need to ask the forum techies what I need to improve my wireless in the garage.

Thanks guys, that was really good. Great work as DS Phil. There is a recording here if your interested;

Thanks guys, sorry couldn't make the last 5k - seemed like I was in the red for a long time for at least the first half of the race, never really got any rythmn or rest somehow - seemed to be over 300w a lot of the time when not on. the front, will have to consult the stats to see if thats true or I'm just under par.

re not leaving the pairing screen - I doubt that is a wifi issue, exactly the same happened to Jack on the last ttt he did, more likely a coding error, dealing with some network event. Similar issues happen with leaving the garage, particularly on large rides.

Well that was a voyage of discovery. Thanks to all in TeamSTW for bearing with me. I could in fact hear you all the way round, and see you most of the way round (but never on the back straight after we went through the mountain and past the waterfall - so I just had to guess how much power to put out at that point. So that, coupled with my phone decided to go into a boot loop for 2 our of 3 laps and not being able to reach the laptop keyboard to type, meant I just had to get on with it!

Have never used Discord before, I think I need to have it in my ears, but then I would need a push to talk function or I would drive you all crazy with my heavy breathing! What is everyone else using?

The actual bike riding seemed like a sideshow compared to solving all the various technical issues I had!

Does that stream have Phil’s audio when he realised he was still on the mtb 😁😁
@rj2dj I use discord on my phone (attached to bars) and use the push to talk setting. That way I don’t need to mute myself. Cheap Bluetooth speaker headphones with a mic seem to do the trick.
Great effort guys, carried decent speed up those climbs.

i got stuck in the garage at 7.30 and had to re load was just grateful it had made the changes back to a road bike from a mtb! I use in ear headphones and push to talk for discord as my turbo and music make so much noise.

thanks @robbo1234biking enjoyed that, i think it would be easier to work on on a flatter course, slight rises and falls make a big difference to power output for me. Bit there were times I thought that looked promising and it was much less blobby for large parts of the ride, thanks for all your workings out. I too had family taking the mick about spreadsheets and power targets!!

@haloric you did a good job pacing the first two hills. Thanks.

What did people think? Didn’t quite go to plan with w00dster’s technical issues but I was surprised to see the results were quite encouraging.

I did that ttt course back in September with Phil. My 3 laps and average watts were:

14:20 279w
14:32 272w
14:28 269w

Tonight:

14:25 271w
14:40 250w
14:29 250W

So very similar pace but about 10-15% less power. Through the esses and flat section we went well. We stayed together on the climb well. We could prob have pushed a bit harder on the plateau on the first two climbs but overall it went well.

What did others think?

I think that worked great! (MoreSTW). Looking at my numbers (avg watts & HR), very similar to usual, maybe slightly lower avg HR, but it felt easier (albeit was definitely working hard to hang on for the last lap!!) and managed a strong sprint finish whereas normally I have little/nothing left at the end! (No idea how we fared as a group though vs. How we normally do?)

Definitely a bit scrappy - there were times I was doing 300W in the back trying to stay on when it wasn’t even my turn at the front 😂 and quite often found myself having to do 400W to move up to take my turn! Few times we let too big a gap form at the front I think which made it hard for the next man to take his turn. But overall - really good! Stayed together really well even on the climbs.

Hope you all got a good ride in - sorry again

Mine wasn't (entirely) zwift's fault - shambles on my part

I assume I've drowned my keyboard in sweat, so initially couldnt log in to windows but because the password was blanked I couldn't see that I was typing gobbledegook (more than normal!)

Swapped to a new keyboard and got logged in but I think windows must've been cross with me for trying so many times and had to re-restart. Then logged on to zwift with plenty of time and started discord.
That made my pc shut down again so restarted with very little time left. started discord again and my password wasn't working so tried it on my phone to scan the screen but that also wouldn't log in

Looked up at the screen with about 3 min to go and I was pedalling round somewhere that wasn't watopia (maybe Ricmond, like woodster). ended ride & back in again but didn't make it in time (or at least didn't get the "join" button).

Maybe it's just all the wet weather buggering up the pc, although the keyboard was doing odd things initially; hoping just that

Ah well, did a workout and got to eat dinner with MrsP (fair enough, it is our anniversary ! 🤣 )

(Oh, and I was still on the MTB too !)

@rj2dj you did really well to keep with us with all the issues.

For discord I gave up on using my phone as it used to cause the companion app to die. That was on an older phone though. Now I use a set of tredz titanium headphones for listening and an old web cam on the TV for the microphone. Both connected to discord on the PC running zwift. I have voice activation turned on as well as noise cancelling.

@paino sadly no sound on the video. The headset was interfering with the streaming softwares sound and I couldn't work out why before the start.

I assume I’ve drowned my keyboard in sweat, so initially couldnt log in to windows but because the password was blanked I couldn’t see that I was typing gobbledegook (more than normal!)

Swapped to a new keyboard and got logged in but I think windows must’ve been cross with me for trying so many times and had to re-restart. Then logged on to zwift with plenty of time and started discord.
That made my pc shut down again so restarted with very little time left. started discord again and my password wasn’t working so tried it on my phone to scan the screen but that also wouldn’t log in

Thank you, you’ve just helped me decide to stick with my iPad and not get a laptop for Zwift 😉

I'm on a big old telly in the garage and I've one of those "meeting" webcams on top of the screen and I've bodged a fairing out of a squash bottle the keep the wind off the mic

Works well as far as I know - people tend to say they can hear me OK

Weird - just looked at the results and I'm partially recorded on team STW while woodster isn't, plus phil doesn't show at all either 🤷‍♂️

Thank you, you’ve just helped me decide to stick with my iPad and not get a laptop for Zwift 😉

(replacement is going in a plastic bag 😎 )

Much more satisfied with my performance this week. Took quite a lot of focus through the undulating sections. Being at the heavier end I can happily draught at the back at 3 W/kg whilst everyone else is doing 4. A moments hesitation as the gradient goes up though and the gap starts growing quickly!

Not sure if the hills were just smaller and less steep than last week or I managed to avoid overdoing and blowing up this time but nice to get to the finish all together.

Thanks all

It took me a while to dial in the right power for pulls. The squad I have been in 5-6wpkg is the usual pull (400-420ish W for 30-60s). I kept defaulting to that instead of less for longer.

I think that was good and definitely something to build on. We communicated well (thanks @Robbo1234biking for calling it). My weighted power average was comparable to previous weeks but average power slightly less than last week so I reckon that means there was more resting in the line. I certainly felt I had a bit more left in the tank at the end- to the extent that I took off for the line far too early. Still that daft effort gave me PBs for 1 min and 2 min power. It'll be interesting to see where we faired in the rankings.

I also enjoyed the longer recovery times and felt stronger at the finish than usual. I think we did pretty well all things considered. I don’t think that’s an easy route as it’s very rarely flat. I find it quite hard to keep to a steady power output when on the front so hope it wasn’t too up and down.

I find it quite hard to keep to a steady power output when on the front

Thanks for posting the video @Nixie

I was with you the whole way round, but only appear on the video at about 24:50, about half way round lap 2. From memory i think this coincides with my phone finally exiting its boot loop and restarting the companion app. It's a bit odd as i didn't think the companion app was a necessity, and it still doesnt explain why you all disappeared off my laptop screen on the back straight each lap! Discord on the phone was what caused the issue - seemed to clash with the companion app, as someone above has mentioned.

I'll get something sorted for next time. Found the person issuing instructions really helpful - thank you for that. FElt like each lap we did we got better at staying together and passing other teams.

Looking at the results it looks like, not too far off top-100 for our class.

There is definatley merit in trying it again. Comparing results to the last time we rode that course (only Zilog and I finished both courses of the people who rode on both teams) but the results show similar time for lower power output.

24th September: 43:56
Zilog: 244w
Me: 272w

Last Night: 44:08
Zilog: 233w
Me: 257w

Next week is Greater London Flat so a much better course to try it on:

https://zwiftinsider.com/route/greater-london-flat/

I was interested to see that my average heart rate was a whole 10 bpm lower than the previous tt in spite of the average watts being only 2 less. 1m power and 30s power were both up reflecting me taking turns on the front for a change and explains why, although I feel less tired overall, I can feel it in my legs this morning.

Yeah my HR was lower too, I think due to reining myself in on the pulls by having a target rather than just going full chat 😂 Worked well in the sense that I still had a bit left at the end.
I think we got REALLY lucky on the overtakes as we didn’t have a plan, almost lost a couple of guys off the back with the first one. Maybe we should suspend the pulls as we approach the team to pass, to conserve energy, then push through from the back as we have done before and everyone go hard, so we all get past as quickly as possible? Then when through someone strong needs to take the lead immediately so we can make a gap, and those who need to can rest up.

Nice rides all round. @rj2dj your race report is a good explanation of why we tried to set your expectations beforehand...

More STW that was actually a pretty hard course to experiment on - lots of not really flat, not really a climb. The next two weeks it will a lot easier to put a plan into practice I think. Then after that it goes lumpy (NY ground level roads), still much easier to plan for than today but by then you'll have it dialled in.

Tech issues are so frustrating. WTRL posted on facebook that they are working with zwift to get some event-specific improvements, which would be a massive step forward. We had a phantom rider in our team yesterday (it was weird, we were riding with a gap at times and trusting he was in it) and I've seen the "stuck in the pairing screen" thing in several places recently. It's getting less reliable as a way to keep pedalling in the start delay but it's a bug that can really only get noticed in this particular event.

Yeh that overtake (which killed Haloric) caught me out I am afraid. It might be worth splitting the responsibility for the person calling and having someone else keeping an eye out on the teams in front and behind. We weren't catching them that quick but all of a sudden we just seemed to pick up pace and flew up behind them.

@nixie what software do you capture with? I'm finding that OBS kills the discord overlay (completely, not just fails to capture it, but not always immediately), so I have to choose between recording or seeing the overlay. I've run everything as admin and enabled the overlays setting in OBS. No luck.

They have added 2 more zones for next week so think we will be zone 11 for the 7.40pm race next week.

@robbo1234biking. That overtake nearly finished me off too. I'd just done a turn and got to near the back and then had to sprint as everyone accelerated. In hindsight I should have flagged the group we were catching but I was just concentrating on hitting 300w. So I think a separate person scouting for overtakes is a good idea.

@savoyad that's good news that Zwift are working on the start. 12 mins with no pedalling is ridiculous given the pairing screen option is so flaky.

The problem is whatever they are working on won't necessarily be the start @slowpuncheur. It's the obvious functionality to tackle. But the wider context of the comment was actually the recent issues pulling through results/splits.

@savoyad I'm using OBS studio. Currently only streaming. I don't think I enabled any overlay settings in OBS. Zwift is running windowed. I do have a fairly hefty zwift PC (running max resolution with everything on while streaming and discord).

The problem is whatever they are working on won’t necessarily be the start @slowpuncheur. It’s the obvious functionality to tackle. But the wider context of the comment was actually the recent issues pulling through results/splits.

Indeed much more likely to be forced team jerseys or switching on draft for TT bikes. You know something you genuinely can't live without.

Indeed much more likely to be forced team jerseys

Appropriate seeing as @slowpuncheur struggled with this last night... 😉

Wait now, what now? I was stripy kit on my screen. Check my strava pic. Just Zwift being zwift again I guess.

Edit. I can see I look all wrong on your screen grab on strava. What were people thinking! 😳

At least your socks looked ok on both screen shots! Weird how Zwift does that. I would have mentioned it in ride but was too busy trying to remember if it was a 30 sec pull or 1 min pull!

Indeed much more likely to be forced team jerseys

Did you change kit in the pen ?

I think if you do that you are more likely to look inappropriately clothed to others. I think it can also happen with a bike change too.

If you think about what is happening, when you arrive in the pen, zwift tells everyone your kit and bike, but if you change either, it has to tell everyone again, and I think that does not happen reliably.

I would all for a different kit - quite a few stripy riders last night.

We’ll need a baggy short option though 😉

@haloric. Yes I did. Given I had 10 minutes from the meetup prompt to the start of our effort I thought it was a sensible use of time. At least it wasn't trying to send me to Harrogate like it did on Tuesday

Not sure the STW kit will happen - at least not in the near future.

Although the race series appears to be successful on its own right getting your own kit requires a much higher profile. This could be done one of two ways (neither of which I am sure we have the appetite for).

1. Organise large group rides that would be open in the calendar - this kind of happens with Sunday Hills but would be a more formal arrangement that would require ride leaders and sweepers etc and would regularly be getting attendance in the 100s. Im not sure we have the critical mass on the forum to achieve this without it becoming a burden. A lot of the chat on the group rides is a bit strange as well (even compared to our normal banter).

2. Put the race series out to the wider zwift community. The last series had a total of 80 riders registered. Beyond 100 and the handicap system would become too much of a burden for me to implement so this would be feasible for a wider zwift series. Then it just becomes a normal race series and loses the community feel that we have around the series.

It may be that there is enough interest from the forum to make these things happen but I think there are about 50-100 regular zwifters and if you look across the zwift posts then it is normally around 40 users who a regularly commenting.

I could start a thread to what the interest in in expanding this possibly.

Interesting that a number of complaints on FB today that the draft effect was missing in some teams of for some team members, in some experienced teams who know what they are doing.

It's not the first time that's happened - I've personally had it twice, on one occasion I may as well have riden a TT bike, draft simply wasn't there, on the other it's been a rendering and reporting issue best I can tell in as much as I did draft but I had to be about 10m *in front* of the other riders on screen. The visual simply didn't match up with the physics.

We’ll need a baggy short option though

Team entries are in for this week - 2 laps of Greater London Flat, 28.9km, Thursday 7.40pm

Riders sign up to pen A here https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1695225

Enter as early as you can and I'll get the teams done ASAP.

its a short fast one this week. Cheers Savoyad - all signed up.

Yep signed up, ta!! Could be a good one to practice the pulls again - but I think we need to decide on a strategy for any overtakes (us or them!)

A lot easier on this course though. Blob up a couple of seconds behind, surge past and then likely start the pull order again. Would be harsh on the guys doing 120% 30 seconds pulls to surge past a team and then go straight into a pull so need to be mindful of that.

Being overtaken is a bit easier. Everyone just eases and then we continue the pull order we were in before the overtake happened. Just need a designated spotter on the overtake front (both ahead and behind) as when we were on the flat we were flying and caught them a lot quicker than I anticpated. Luckily less terrain issues to consider.