[Closed] Your' Cramp Cures

I've never tried it but a mate swears by drinking a sachet of vinegar. I'd rather have cramp tbh, so no clue at all if it works, he's a bit special tbh.

I'm interested in this too, as recently find I am suffering more with cramp, whereas it's never bothered me in the past. I am going to try a pinch or 2 of rock salt in my bottle next few rides and see if that helps...

Hopping around whilst swearing like a navvy...
More cure than prevention though (well that's what I did at the end of the Dyfi).

2 Theories about cramp;

1. It's due to a lack of electrolytes. This is old, unscientific and the one that everyone thinks is correct.

2. That it is a neuro-muscular fatigue problem. This is new, scientific and the one that no-one has caught on to yet.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/search/label/muscle%20cramps

High 5 Zero tablets

Tonic water... Contains Quinine, Works well for me.

[i]High 5 Zero tablets [/i]

There's someone who thinks number 1 is correct...

I suffered from cramp really badly two years ago. My solution was to scream and allow a random stranger to straighten my leg out whilst I lay on my back on the trail. 😐

I only get it when I've set off too hard (crikey's #2)

You'd need to be quite dehydrated to get it via that route IMO (#1). All the times I've had it I was more than adequately hydrated.

cure: salts.

prevention: remember to take salty drinks/snacks.

works for me.

(but only needed before/after rides longer than 2hours)

[i]cure: salts.

preventions: remember to take salty drinks/snacks.[/i]

Again, no.

What happens when you sweat?

You sweat out lots of water and a very small amount of salt.

What does this do to your body?

It makes the concentration of salts in your body go UP.

Drinking salty drinks makes this situation worse, not better.

Cramp is much more to do with the nerves and muscles being used in a way that you haven't trained for, than it is to do with electrolyte concentration.

This information is strangely unpopular with the manufacturers of electrolyte drinks and additives.

Read the link...
> http://www.sportsscientists.com/search/label/muscle%20cramps

Salt in a bottle helps. I forgot to put any in my bottle for the Dyfi and my legs are still suffering the side effects a little. Some salt and vinegar crisps are also good

🙄

I've never suffered with cramp whilst riding, but often get it in my lower legs and feet when jsut laying about on the sofa watching TV. Dont know why, but it does hurt enough to make me laugh.

OK Crikey, I'll bite.

Why do electrolyte drinks help me prevent cramp then? Naff all to do with marketing, more like 20 years of trying stuff out...

suck the pads in your helmet, its where the salts you've lost end up 😀

As above, it's becoming pretty clear that cramp is not related to salts or hydration.
The "cure" since it's probably a neuromuscular issue is either to race/ride at training pace, or to train at race pace and or race cadence, to ensure your muscles can cope with race demands of both strength and endurance.

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/38/4/488.abstract
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/43/6/401.abstract

We see athletes and patients with low sodium levels frequently, they don't appear to be suffering with cramp, we know from some studies that adding sodium in the form of salt to sports drinks make little or no difference to plasma sodium levels, drink too much of anything and sodium levels drop. As noted above, "this information is strangely unpopular with the manufacturers of electrolyte drinks and additives." 🙂

I get cramp, when i drink regular stuff, i still get cramp. When i drink electrolyte drink, the cramp doesn't come, why?

I generally get cramp when I've been riding too hard for too long. It's in the muscles that get used a lot when I'm riding - hamstrings, calfs (calves?). On these occasions I've been using energy drink with electrolytes for several hours. I don't get cramp in muscles that aren't being used.

Solution - train more before, or ride less/easier.

Crikey - you have no chance mate, some people cant think rationaly.

(perhaps thats due to a lack of salt in the brain)

[i]more like 20 years of trying stuff out...[/i]

Got you beat by 10 years....

The only time I cramped was at the end of road races; when my muscles were understandably fatigued. I tried the electrolyte drinks and still cramped, I tried quinine, and still cramped.

I did more racing and more training and it went away.

Cramp = needing more salts is a myth, an old cycling wives tale and a very pervasive and persuasive advertising strategy. It's also wrong.

The last time I had cramp, it was 2am and I was dealing with a very ill 18 month old whom I could only settle by having her sleep on my chest. She woke up, vomited all over me and so I thought "Oh well, best just carry her to the bathroom and get cleaned up". Then the leg cramp set in. Cue me yelping and hopping around in the dark, covered in sick, trying not to drop my daughter.

On a more serious note, I've tended to suffer from cramp during sustained periods of exercise, moreso when I haven't stretched properly in between sessions. (De)Hydration is also possibly a factor as I find cramp is more likely in warmer conditions.

transapp - Member

OK Crikey, I'll bite.

Why do electrolyte drinks help me prevent cramp then? Naff all to do with marketing, more like 20 years of trying stuff out...

what he said.

it works.

crikey - Member

What happens when you sweat?

You sweat out lots of water and a very small amount of salt.

i'm really not sure about this, i'd say my sweat is VERY salty, have you tasted sweat? - it's like seawater...

and you only need to lose a few grams of salt to feel really quite unwell.

i'm more than happy to accept the neuro-muscular-wotsit angle too, but one of these factors i can control (salt intake), the other factor i cannot control (fitness)

And yet if I'm dehydrated (say I've had too much booze the night before, or I'm out sailing and salt water gets into my drink bottles meaning I can't take on fluids*) I'm prone to cramp up more. Oddly the day before I cold have been doing the same thing, but not cramped.
Not sure I'm getting it yet.

*yes I get the irony

I won't get into the whole prevention arguement but I'm keen to read people's opinion on why sports drinks do appear to work. Placebo?

I only ever get cramp when cycling after about 4 hours, and even then its not everytime. When I ride motorcycle enduros I find I get it either due to fatigue or when I start to push the pace and get myself abit worked up mentally if that makes sense, ie I think the increased stress to push harder brings on the cramp.

Anyhow, my only 'cure' and 'prevention' all in one is a freezing cold shower for as long as you can bare it, feels amazing afterwards, sort of shocks the muscles and makes them go all tinkly.

To prevent cramp - Get fitter. If it was due to an electrolyte imbalance, surely all muscles would be likely to cramp, not just the one(s) you've been using most?

I suffer off and on - the fitter I am (less unfit actually) the less likely I am to get it but even the pros get it - just after levels of exertion way beyond what you and I are used to.

Worst cramp I got was in a theatre the evening after a big event - I got that hamstring sort of cramp that means you yelp and have to either stick your leg straight out to stretch it, or hop about and wait for it to pass. Neither are particularly acceptable in a theatre setting, i can tell you. I know that because shortly after finding out that stretching your leg out into the footwell of the couple beside you gets a Paddington stare in return, I opted for the hopping about when inevitably I got the same in my other leg 5 minutes later.

All I can say is read the link above.

Cramp by electrolyte loss doesn't work in a scientific way, so it's reasonable to assume it's something else, and the best something else is neuro-muscular fatigue.

It's been such a well-known relationship for so long that I'm not surprised that so many people think it's true, but really, it's not.

crikey - Member

All I can say is read the link above.

Yes, we noticed 😆

Homeopathic medicine is the answer

But you didn't read the link! 😉

cramps- get fitter.

Crikey - fair play to you for sticking to your guns regarding the above link, but how do you explain all the anecdotal evidence that salt/electrolyte intake actually DOES help people (myself included). The only product that I've tried that both prevents and cures my foot/calf/upper leg cramps is nuun. To me at least, they're fantastic.
Others have found their own salvation in different salt/electrolyte products, yet you seem to disregard what they're saying? Maybe they work in a different way to that in which they're marketed, but if they DO work (which IME nuun does) then, quite frankly, I don't honestly care how. You appear to be berating people for having a closed mind on the subject, yet that's exactly the attitude that you yourself are displaying.

But the link above is not peer reviewed research. The whole artical is purely to support a hypothesis that's laid out at the start. What I see is specific research that support the hypothesis selected, and I bet there are others that don't which have been ignored. Ironic given the whole chess board analogy. I'd be more swayed by something like Cochrane Institute research.
I personally find that being better hydrated gives me less cramps. Maybe it's in the head, I don't know. What I will do is now have a chat to the bloke who's a dietitian for the British sailing team and the Modern Pentathalon and see what his thinking is.
What I think the drinks do, is allow the body to absorb the water faster to keep hydrated. I'm certain that no one is going to argue that keeping hydrated has some benefits!

Crikey, I believe you. Been seeing stuff like this for about a year now as it is becoming more common knowledge. But you have to fight peoples desire to believe that by drinking X while they ride it will make them better.

So my personal cramp prevention technique is a generally all round healthy diet with plenty of fluids leading up to a race but most importantly - pacing during the race. My cramp cure lies in the nose of my saddle/stretching and some rule 5.

HAving said that, my lighter wheels did make me faster 😉

jonba, surely cramp prevention by healthy eating and plenty of fluids is the exact opposite of the whole thing crikey is saying?

I'm sure that in most cases cramp is likely to be due to muscle overload but surely some evidence exists that sodium deficit brought on by excessive sweating contributes to cramp? This view can't have been invented by sports drinks manufacturers eager to sell us their wares, I'm sure some evidence exists but they've overplayed it to sell to every Tom, Dick and Harry.

I think the incidence of cramp is unpredictable and therefore the use of lotions and potions to prevent it is similarly hit and miss.

I think that the recieved wisdom that salt/electrolytes prevents cramp is so ingrained in cycling folklore that people attribute cramp avoidance to their choice of drink without thinking about it.

To be honest, I suspect that as people get to the point they are doing enough exercise to cramp, then they start to use products to prevent it, but [i]continue to train and exercise[/i] and I think that is what prevents the cramp rather than the stuff they are taking.

I don't like being the poster boy for this, but the article struck me as well thought out, well researched and it fitted with my experience over the years so well.

[i]surely some evidence exists that sodium deficit brought on by excessive sweating contributes to cramp[/i]

No, it doesn't.

A considerable amount of the 'research' into electrolytes and cramp was done by....
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Gatorade....

I only ever get cramp when I'm lying down doing nothing. It most frequently happens when I'm in bed 😀

the thing is crikey, I'm not even saying you're wrong. I'm not saying the article is wrong, I'm saying I won't believe something like that without further research, in the meantime I'll keep doing what I think works for me.
Quite possibly what does work for me, is keeping hydrated allows me to keep training / riding / sailing longer, and that in turn allows me to stave off cramps, however that doesn't explain why I then cramp when I'm not hydrated, but also leave the mystery that only the tired muscles cramp, not all over the body.
This is why I need to talk to people who know this stuff!

Real food, especially chorizo.

The major problem is that there are a large number of vested interests selling stuff we may not need to prevent a problem that is only really resolved by training more.

I'm sure more research will emerge, but it will take time to change a very profitable marketing theme...

Muscle Cramps during Exercise-Is It Fatigue or Electrolyte Deficit? - Bergeron, Michael F.

Heat cramps: fluid and electrolyte challenges during tennis in the heat - M.F. Bergeron

This Bergeron chap thinks it does, i wonder if he works for Gatorade

Serum electrolyte concentrations and hydration status are not associated with exercise associated muscle cramping (EAMC) in distance runners - M P Schwellnus1, J Nicol1, R Laubscher2, T D Noakes

These chaps say no*

*Abstracts found using Google Scholar. I have no real knowledge of this subject.

You sweat out lots of water and a very small amount of salt.

I hate subjective statements. Some numbers from skratch labs.

400 to 800 mg per litre of sweat. 1 litre of sweat per hour at 150 watts. 2 litres of sweat per hour at 250 watts.

My problem is, I'm not a doctor / dietitian / gatoraid marketer, so I don't fully understand the research.
I still don't know why it appears to work - when I'm dehydrated, I tend to get cramps. And that can be at the very start of exercise!

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/muscle-cramps-part-ii.html

It's in the link, dude.

Those muscle cramp articles are interesting and would suggest I get less cramp just because I'm fitter.

I can accept that 🙂

No, the answer to the question of 'why does it appear to work' is not in the link.

[i]No, the answer to the question of 'why does it appear to work' is not in the link.[/i]

I can't answer why it 'appears' to work, unless, as above it's related to training intensity and product usage. The science, which is done properly, in a scientific way, would suggest that it doesn't work in the way you assume, and so I would suggest that the onus is on you to determine an alternative scientific method by which it could work. 😉

I don't disagree with you, but it does appear to work!

Ok, i'll ask another question, why is it important to stay hydrated? What impact does dehydration have on the body?

...my interest is also partly professional; I monitor and adjust peoples electrolyte values on a daily basis, and so I am familiar with the effects of profound, severe electrolyte disturbance.

I therefore find the claims made for electrolyte drinks to be less than believeable.

Although my spelling appears to be problematic..

So until I can make a significant improvement in fitness, I'll continue to carry rehydration salts and a bottle of water: only now I'll feel confident that the placebo effect will fix my cramp.

I used to rarely get cramp during a race, but I'd often get it after I'd got home and was lying in bed in the evening. I found that Crampex tablets from the pharmacy helped that.

Never actually had cramp whilst riding, had it getting on or off the bike though, which usually results in a comedy fall.

I get really bad cramp, my legs can lock straight at inopertune moments. I have found 2 things work, 1 is fitness the other is bananas, and I need both or it will happen around 2.5 hours in. Temperature seems to effect it too, but it might be that my fitness is lower during the colder months. I have found bananas way more useful than the usual nuun tablet route...

I completely agree with Bananas, after years of playing footy I always felt a banana really helped my legs and helped any feel of cramp.

Haven't had cramp in a while but when doing the Whinlatter Challenge in that stupidly hot march we had I the worst calf cramp ever. I put it down to not drinking enough and trying too hard to keep up with the XC whippets so i now swear by High 5 Zero tablets even thought it hasn't been hot enough to test them.....Oh well

I came to believe it was down to fitness. Two years ago I did 10@Kirroughtree solo and did a fair amount of training, following a training plan as much as possible. I built up to doing a couple of 8 hour rides in the weeks before the event. The weather before the event was generally pretty warm and I never had any probs with cramp. On the day the weather was cool and wet, I had trained on my singlespeed running 32:16, on the day I went for 32:18 thinking this would allow me to pace myself better as I have a habit of going too hard at the start and it might be better for the muddy conditions. Anyway end result was I got cramp after about 3 hours. Still felt pretty good energy wise but the cramp had me walking the fireroad climbs. So I'm still none the wiser.

I always thought electrolytes and hydration where more to do with maintaining performance.

Would just like to butt in and add that I actually suffer more with cramp now that I am fitter, and possible more when it's cold. Maybe I just feel able to push myself harder?

You quite often see pro tennis players getting cramps don't you? I wonder how they deal with it?