On the homepage, under the picture of fugly XX chainset (looks like the big ring is missing from a triple chainset with the tabs overlapping the big chainring or is it just me?!!!) it reads:
"SRAM's new ten-speed SRAM XX groupset. See the story for Dave's thoughts on the shiniest thing on the block (for now)"
I guess we are all waiting for the XTR response to XX, but is the "for now" comment a bit of a tease that somebody might know something? I am guessing that 10 speed is a given, but hopefully it is traditional XTR metal and a bit of carbon rather than XX plastic and soft metals. Can't wait, but what has anybody heard?
Actually XTR runs in 4 year cycles, 1995, 1999, 2003, 2007, so don't expect anything new next year! They'll wait to see how XX is received anyway I reckon. Assume the Shimano stuff will look more 'finished', it'll probably weigh a bit more, use less exotica and cost less. No doubt performance will be totally subjective!
I don't think XTR is a direct competitor to XX myself.
X0 is the nearest (in price and weight) and I don't think SRAM will stop making X0.
Unless Shimano make a new groupset above XTR and aimed squarely at XC racing I can't see them making anything to compete with XX.
xtr with those yumananannamanama bits would be pointlessly expensive. anyway, it shows how good xtr is that it weighs naff all, yet is tough enough for any bike from XC to all mountain to DH.
and I'd rather have a shimano chainset over anything that has truativ written on it.
mtbmatt I'm no having a go but I'm pretty sure someone said the same thing a while ago but it was
X7=XT
X9=XTR
XO=the dogs nadgers better than any shimano bobbins.
I guess that makes XX super duper dogs nadgers and double rad to the power of sik better than shimano....?
x7=slx
x9=xt
X0=xtr
I guess it comes down to personal preference, but IMO XTR is certainly better than X9.
Parts of X0 are better than XTR, but other parts are not as good so overall I feel X0 and XTR are on a par.
X9=XTR
LOLOLOLOLOLOL......
we have in the basement 7 bikes and lots of spares/old crap that no-one wants to throw out.
there are 3 shimano rear mechs in the box, the oldest being around 8 years. there are three sram x9 mechs and the oldest is about 3 years.
only one bike runs sram because he "wants to be different" which is a good argument but in this case flawed. all the shimano mechs bar one are still in good working order if a little scratched and in need of a clean. the sram mechs are good for the bin. jockey wheels are loose. infact the body of the mech is loose and has lots of play in it. the reason for the last replacement.
it is good that there is competition for shimano but what i have seen of it doesn't compare.
oh, and x9 isn't comparable to XTR. not sure if you can really compare it to XT.
XTR weighs less than X.0, and performance is totally subjective, comaparing it to X.9 is just silly.
I know XTR is meant to give a bit of an advantage in racing, but I read the OP title as XTR 2010 Tazer! I knew there would be an electronic one sooner or later. Better than the old Airlines dart guns back in the day.
Well there's electronic Dura Ace Di2, so we may see electronic XTR, doubt it though!
is posible, xtr di a rubbish, shimano old tecnology, only copy like Shadow = sram
is posible, xtr di a rubbish, shimano old tecnology, only copy like Shadow = sram
Huh?
I'd not normally make remarks about someone's spelling and grammer, but I have no idea what your point is.
Glad it's not just me, that makes no sense at all!
Shadow mechs are not really like Sram ones either, with the possible exception of cable routing.
"It is possible that shimano will polish the turd that is XTR in response to the challenge of XX. XTR, that is rubbish. Shimano only copy old technology. Take for example, the shadow mech, which is simply a rip-off of SRAM designs."
Roughly? 🙂
Assuming that is what's being said, it's an amusing stance considering one incarnation of Shimano is usually more innovative than every SRAM one combined! They're not really doing anything new here, except maybe the cassette!
[i]They're not really doing anything new here, except maybe the cassette! [/i]
I have to say that the SRAM 10-sp cassette is a work of art. Personally I'd only get SRAM on a road bike though: I'd *probably* choose Red over Dura Ace. MTB - XTR every time (although I like to be a bit different so something like a RaceFace Next chainset would be good.*
* this is assuming money no object obviously...
X7 = Acera
X9 = Alivio
XO = Deore
Even that would feel generous in my book 😆
I love all this direct comparison between different companies groupsets when all the comparison stops at X-0/XTR top groupset. It always happens with SRAM/Shimano/Campag on the road groupsets.
X0 rear mech and gripshift shifters,
XTR cassette, front mech and cranks,
KMC chain.
Best combo IMO 🙂
I'd *probably* choose Red over Dura Ace
Really? Have you used it? Very loud cassette, terrible brakes with really weak springs, rattly shifters. No thanks!
[i]Really? Have you used it? Very loud cassette, terrible brakes with really weak springs, rattly shifters. No thanks![/i]
Use SRAM (any SRAM) with a Shimano cassette, it works better. The shifters and brakes on the one I tried seemed fine but then I didn't use it for more than 20 mins so hardly time for it to break! 😉
X7 = Catalogue 'mtb'
X9 = Tourney
X0 = Acera
Cassette is totally redesigned now, so not nearly as noisy.
Love my X0, much crisper shift than Shimano. But let's be honest both groupsets are great pieces of kit.
alpin knows what he is talking about as he has a number of bikes and sees it for himself.. the majority of people working in bike shops would agree.
shimano and sram both offer diffrent functions here and there at the higher end of the groupsets but shimano is a diffrent ball game when it comes to quality.
matt, you said you cant see shimano making anything to compete with xx.. the way i see it ,sram would have to go up another level of groupset above xx to equal the lifespan,the consistent function along with the qualities of xtr as it is.
i love the feel of new sram stuff compared to the stuff from the early days but its still got a lot of catching up to do with the real big S in other area`s besides how they work*.
*like how they work when nice and fresh and new and erm...non sloppy ;O)
X7 = LX
X9 = XT
X0 = XTR
Although I prefer XTR mechs and triggers to anything triggerry by SRAM, X0 gripshift still gives me hots (soon an the Prophet).
Shifting wise (at least on MTBs), nothing is as good as XTR Dual Control. IMHO.
I have 2 geared bikes, a 1x9 and a 2x9. The former runs an old LX shifter on an XT Shadow mech and an XT cassette, the latter X9 shifters (old style) on and X9 mech (with XTR up-front) on an XT cassette. Both perform flawlessly.
dual release xtr shifters are a-mazing.
just swapped XO for XT shifters and shadow mech cos i got fed up of double downshifting - anyway a L cage shadow weighs 21g more than XO and shifters i think it was 10g each. If i was to put the med cage shadow on i suspect it would be lighter!
XT shifts just a nice as XO for a fraction of the price.
The XTR long cage Shadow I took off my Epic weighed less than the medium cage X.0 I put on.
As the saying goes Campag innovates, Shimano impersonates and Sram disintegrates.
Not really so true nowadays though Joxster - campag's been following for a few years now - external BBs is the main one I can think of - what else have either Shimano, Campag or SRAM done that's really innovative or new in the last 5 years? If anything, I reckon Shimano's been more innovative. SRAM's groupsets are very light but there are questions about the payoff to get that in durability and function (eg rattly parts, etc) and the double tap shifters might work perfectly well but they're designed that way to get around patents, not because that's how they wanted to do it. Going to 11 speed doesn't count as innovative in my book...
Speaking as a confirmed Campag user but I don't let that cloud my judgement...
You know when you write those long winded posts and then end up deleting the lot because it's a really pointless debate (Shimano vs SRAM, tube vs tubeless, flats vs SPDS, tyres) that will never be solved...
Yeah, just did that...
Clubbed, brake cable routing 😉
Speaking with the boss at Campag they felt they had to move to external BBs because that's what customers wanted. But they had to come up with a different and better design to Shimano.
Harder to fit and work on and heavier? Far better!
mmm how many of you guys have actually tried both systems? how can you say "X7 = Catalogue 'mtb'
X9 = Tourney
X0 = Acera "
Have you really tried all these groupsets? All I can say is I started off with Shimano and moved to sram and it's the best thing I've done to my bike. Working in a bike shop you can see what lasts and what doesn't, and yeah, shimano "lasts" i.e. it's solid but it's a pain in the arse having to keep tweeking it here and there every week. I haven't touched my XO twistgrips for 6months now-no cable adjustment-NOTHING. My road bike set up with Ultegra SL and Dura Ace has been b*stard to be frank with non stop servicing to get it bang on, probably down to the 2:1 ratio as opposed to 1:1. Worst mistake I've ever made especially with the rise in cost!
To anybody out there thinking of buying a new groupset, whatever you go for I recommend Nokon or Alligator cable outers-they're expensive and you need to spend a bit of time fettling but I like that and they look smart, well designed and really prolong service intervals. Some people don't get on with them but for anybody with a fully working brain they're fairly self explanatory and well worth the upgrade 🙂
three x9 mechs in two france weeks. and not crashed, just gone so wobbly they didnt work at all.
I have never gone from XT mechs and shifters. If it aint broke and all that!
I've tried X9 and XTR and you'd have to pry the XTR out of my cold dead fingers before I'd let go of it!
XTR is smoother, quieter, quicker (to shift) and harder wearing than any of the current SRAM offerings.
X9 just felt clunky and harsh in comparison.
I've got XTR shifters and mechs on 3 bikes and haven't conciously touched the shifting setup in almost a year. I dunno what you folks are doing that requires constant adjustment. If it's setup properly to begin with, the cabes aint going to stretch THAT much, the barrel adjusters are all you should ever need in the life of an inner cable. When you run out of barrel adjuster it's time for a new £3 inner cable.
weenie - Membermmm how many of you guys have actually tried both systems? how can you say "X7 = Catalogue 'mtb'
X9 = Tourney
X0 = Acera "
Have you really tried all these groupsets?
Yes, and I'd say that Acera and Alivio are about the best performing gear systems out there at the moment! Sure they're heavier and probably won't last as long but it always surprises me how well they work when I throw a bike in the stand. X7 is pretty basic stuff....'plasticy' shifters (some have a positive click out of the box and others don't....useless quality control) and the mechs are made of cheese.
I've gone with an Ultegra block, 105 mech and XT shifters and the shifting is pretty good, and I used to have good luck with road mechs in the past so fingers crossed....
x7=just about afford it
x9=if i don't eat
x0=my kidney is on Ebay now
