[Closed] XC Racer's - bike d'jour?

Watching with interest.

I'm particularly interested in whether keeping the 2013 Anthem 29er (120 rebas) is worth not having the outlay of the £3800 bikes - minus what i'd get for the other two - geometry has changed.

Reason I'm interested is along same lines, should i lighten my bike, should i swap it etc. I'm moving along the lines of "does it matter and will it affect my result"
In honesty, no is the answer for me personally.

It comes down to results/expectations etc, i have more to gain in myself currently than any bike can

Surprised you got battered on a scott mtb marathon. I did most of them last year on a giant carbon hardtail and it was more than fine.

Id personall go for a trek procaliber 9.8 if you have the funds.

Seems to me the issue you had was one of comfort. I'd not change anything but just accept that for long jaunts and marathons you use your Anthem.

I have a new Spark, coming from a hardtail Scale. Performance is incredible, mostly due to the geometry rather than any sophisticated suspension. That said, having a lockout for front and rear is great, I'm shifting the lock function almost as much as as the gears. Weighs 21lb which doesn't hurt.

'Does it matter and will it affect my result'? On a Scott marathon it might bump me up a few places. But I'd have a better and more enjoyable ride.

Anyone wanna flog me a frame?

I'm kinda with @dyls, having done 3 rounds of the marathon series on a 26"HT i'm pretty surprised you felt battered.

Not a direct answer to your question, but if i was buying a bike for XC/Marathon/12-24hr duty i'd be looking at a softtail (2017 BMC Teamelite, Trek Procaliber and possibly Canyon Exceed (built in flex from multiple sources)).

If i was buying 1 bike to do the above and take on some trail riding for fun i'd have a 2017 Spark (not the RC one) but i'd be making sure the lockout was as close to a full lockout as possible.

I guess in your shoes my next course of action would be riding the hardtail with higher volume tyres (assuming you have clearance).

Anyone wanna flog me a frame?

I've got a Trek Alu Superfly 100mm FS I'm selling for peanuts, it was kind of fun but I don't need a Downhill bike.

Thoughts?

If you felt battered I'm sure that's mostly down to personal condition and lack of fitness/flexibility/talent.

Re above I wore my thumbs down to the white part of the lower dermis riding a rigid the other day for a few hours even with ESI Chunky's! Thankfully by the summer my skin will have manned the **** up and I won't get blister sores anymore.

Drop the PSI and do more weight's/Core?running

To be fair unlike previous years the Builth course was very dry with defined dry lines over the tops and alot of the descents and the long bit of benched singletrack were bone dry and hard, it was also very hot which would no doubt contribute to the fatigue.

Personally I suffered epic leg cramp which took nigh on 30 minutes to stretch out and was totally screwed after that.

Back OT, the short travel FS makes a lot of sense, I used to ride a carbon 29er HT which was about 10.5kg, I now ride a 90mm travel carbon 29'er FS which is a kilo more but way more comfortable. It has full lock out front and rear too, so the road sections and smooth climbs are mega.

Personally I'd flog 'em both and get the short travel carbon fs and use it for everything.

I suffered badly from cramp also, which is unusual for me. I lost conteol on that final muddy decent after putting a foot out and having my quad cramp immediately.

Im sold on the FS for Marathons - my Vitus Rapide has been fine everywhere until now, . Ill try the Anthem in Mays round and see how the 5lb difference feels before i decide to tart up the Anthem again, or sell both and move on to a single FS bike.

If you do decide to get a new short travel FS bike you should try the Spesh Epic which has long been popular for marathon events . It's pretty useful for XC racing as well .

For the same reason people are switching to wider/lower volume tyres on the road to ease the suspension losses- I think full suspension makes perfect sense on all but playing field smooth grass.
And on off road climbs, the traction benefits outweigh the weight penalty.

Which is why I have a Scott Spark 😀

In all seriousness, I've watched people on hardtails at XCRampage Checkendon struggle to stay in the saddle, let alone pedal over the rooty sections whilst I just spin past them.

*meant to say higher volume of course- doh!

I've got a Trek Alu Superfly 100mm FS I'm selling for peanuts

Juanghia - you have a PM.

Used to ride mid travel full suss, gravitated towards ultra light carbon HT for XC and endurance races, but now gone full hog on a carbon scalpel.

HT now never used and exists as a back up bike for events etc. Ridiculous waste of money.

My scalpel is the 2015 model so a little steep in the head angle, the newer 2017 model is designed around a bit more rowdy behaviour

I've got a similar combination of bikes. A trail / marathon Orbea Occam & a Scale RC. (probably 2kg difference)
Normally I ride the Orbea and keep the Scale for races.
Took it out on Sunday for 5 hours to check it over before this weekends Volcat in Spain and my ass & more is still sore from the hammering.

is the Scale worth the pain? Depends on the riding terrain but if there is any significant climbing, weight & stiffness makes enough of a positive difference

Which is why I have a Scott Spark

I may come and 'fix' your Spark this week 🙂 my garage, over the weekend 😉

It's not a quick fix 🙁 I may have tried to unstick the stuck seatpost with farmer tools 😯

I'm scared to ask... very very scared.

I've a Cannondale HT that I use for racing, I find its fine for everything apart from the longest/roughest marathon races that I do.

At the end of last season I bought a carbon seatpost that's designed to flex a little, (Cannondale Save), and this seems to have helped a bit.

I can't really justify the expense but if I was to get a new race bike it would be one of the following full suspension bikes:
Cannondale Scalpel
Trek TopFuel
Scott Spark
Bianchi Methonal

I have a new Scalpel Si, I sold my carbon hardtail for it. I use it to race short XC and it's perfect. Super fast and the benefits of a bouncy rear end are significant both on the climbs and the descents. Also when locked out it's practically fully rigid so climbs superbly.

I've done a couple of longer days out on it and it just munches the miles. You can fit 2 bottle cages too. Looking forward to giving the Scott Marathons shot at some point.

Sell everything you have, your wife, kids, car, even the dog and get a Scalpel

Sell everything you have, your wife, kids, car, even the dog and get a Scalpel

Not helping, really not helping 😀

I've got a similar combination of bikes. A trail / marathon Orbea Occam & a Scale RC. (probably 2kg difference)
Normally I ride the Orbea and keep the Scale for races.

This is of course me with Vitus/Anthem respectivily

I've woken up this morning then to see that i have rwo bikes for Sale and a new one to buy 😀

So whats the list around the max £4k mark assuming 50% roughlyu comes from the sale of the other bikes:

Trek top fuel 9.8 - doesnt need anything changing from the shop
Scott Spark 910 - lesser "value" in trhe finishing kit at the TReks price point
'Dale Scalpel Si 3 - very specific build, can;'t swap stuff out
Bianchi - won't be touching them again
Anthem Advanced - only comes in 27.5
Spec Epic - seems expensive for the build
Canyon Lux - I wanted one previously, seems good value but steep Geo at 71HA
?
?
?

Of course, putting some decent wheels on the Anthem is only £600 its just a bit more old school...

I think the Specalized epic fsr is one of the best value for money full suss xc bike.

the new spark (120mm) looks great for a 1 bike for all - (if you want to ride trails for fun too)

I'm not sure how much comfort is possible in a 90min xc race? However I do think a FS bike will ultimately leave you less fatigued as you dont have to keep getting out of the saddle every few seconds.

...so expensive though when you look at the great value HT bikes available for 2k

You have a point Sefton. Im fine with my HT for the 16 90 min races i do a year, hemce upgrading the Anthem for 4 Marathons and 1x 12hr seems the best value path.

However, theres thoughts of a european 3 day stage race next year, and my mancave is looking less than spacious...

This is why i like forums 🙂

After having the same dilema as you, i woke up and my decision was

"Fit the Rocket Rons to the Whyte T130, you're racing that"

maybe think about how often you ride each bike...spend the most on the ones you ride the most.

...I did think about buying a nice trail bike but then worked out it might only get used once a month ($$$ per ride = huge)!

they are worth piss all second hand...3 years pass, you've raced on it 30 times, the suspension design is now 'out dated' and you practically have to beg people to buy it off you 🙂

If I could bring myself to spend big I would have a FS XC bike for everything. either a scott, specalized, trek.

https://www.cube.eu/2017/fullsuspension/ams/cube-ams-100-c68-slt-29-zeroblack-2017/

https://www.cube.eu/2017/fullsuspension/ams/cube-ams-100-c68-sl-29-teamline-2017/

Lol. There were quite a few of those in Builth Wells weeksy.

Just found some Wide Lightenings for £460. Tempted, the Anthems not a bad bike for Marathons with 120 up front...

So whats the list around the max £4k mark assuming 50% roughlyu comes from the sale of the other bikes:

How's about this [url= http://www.flidistribution.co.uk/ktm-bikes/mtb---full-suspension/2017-ktm-scarp-29-master-11-x1 ]KTM Scarp Master 11[/url] Full carbon frame, Fox boingy bits, SRAM X1, DT-Swiss tubeless wheels, TLE Schwalbes and Ritchey WCS finishing kit.

[img] [/img]

I've got the Prestige and it's awsumz, pretty much our whole MTB team is on them this year.

I'd be tempted by the Anthem tweak and give that a run out at an event. If I read the post correctly you are happy wth the HT for 16 races but leas so for 3 or 4. Try the Anthem upgrade. If you sell the HT you could have a bike you are less happy with for the 16 shorter races

Kryton, have you looked at the orbea oiz range yet?

The anthem would be perfect for what you describe. I had the 26 version and it was an awesome bike.

Maybe look at one of the slacker xc bikes like the yeti ascr? I have one and its a rocket.

I have now - and very nice - but what do you have to pay to get a single chain ring!

I have been through this exact situation, went from racing a carbon HT to the then new Anthem 29er in 2011, for the reasons you mentioned.

Loved the Anthem so much and even with the Al frame and rims got it below 10kg.

Only sold it last year to buy the latest generation of XC FS race bike as I think the geometry changes make a big difference. I had a long list of potential bikes I’d buy, like the list from Kryton57, in the end the decision came down to the best deal I could find. Ended up with an S-Works Epic WC, that I managed to buy with 40% discount, which was a cracking deal. If that deal hadn’t turned up then I would have been happy to go with the others mentioned.

So it really depends on if you 'want' a new bike rather than up specing your Anthem lol.

Jumping on this thread slightly, but will be massively related for Kryton i imagine...

What tyres guys ? Tubeless of course.

For me it's 27.5 but i expect for him it's 29.

Well, I have a 120 fork on the Anthem which slackens it a a bit, and I can pay £450 for a set of good wheels which will take it down to the weight of the others on that list - and we know the suspension platform is a good one for this type of race. I'ts also 1x11, light & carbon bars, kcnc stem & seatpost so some effort of investment has gone into it.

As mentioned, I'll try it in heavy 25.6lb guise at the next marathon before buying wheels and decide. I'm not massively inclined for a new bike, but my HT (modern 29er) geometry is preferable over then Anthem and it would free up space in the shed...

For tires I run tubeless 2.1x29 Thunder Burt Evos on 1st wheelset, and 2.1 Rocket Ron Evos on the 2nd. These are good for the types of races courses here in Sweden which don't normally have any large rock or slate type content etc. which can kill these.

Jumping on this thread slightly, but will be massively related for Kryton i imagine...

What tyres guys ? Tubeless of course.

For me it's 27.5 but i expect for him it's 29.

For marathon style events where you can get all sorts of terrain on one ride an intermediate XC tyre with extra sidewall protection.
Ron Snakeskin or X-King Protection are the obvious two that come to mind, both lightning fast and both offering acceptable grip in a wide range of conditions.
Bontrager XR2's, Vittoria Barzo and Maxxis Ardent race are also generally well thought of.

I have now - and very nice - but what do you have to pay to get a single chain ring!

as a bike d'jour then 2x11 would be my preferred option....

one of our team turned up with a top fuel 9.8

was five minutes quicker than my superfly hardtail in back to back laps.

For marathon style events where you can get all sorts of terrain on one ride an intermediate XC tyre with extra sidewall protection.

I rode a Ron/Ralph snakeskin combo last week.

Anyone wanna flog me a frame?

I have a Top Fuel alu frame 17.5" sat around that i could do with moving on

I'm wondering if I should buy a set of lighter wheels for the Anthem

will the one's off the HT fit, for a try.

Just to be annoying...
How long was this marathon race? round 4 hours I am guessing?
How much 4h race training had you done?

In my experience you can get away with Time Crunched sort of training on anything up to 2 hour races, but once you go above that there is no substitute for actually training longer durations.

Time crunched training doesn't do anything for your core, arms, shoulders and Mental state which all come in to play hugely. If you're core is done and you still have half the race to go, you are going to feel beat up regardless.

2.25 Racing Ralph on the rear
2.25 Nobby Nic on the front

Tubeless, evo versions

Just to be annoying...
How long was this marathon race? round 4 hours I am guessing?
How much 4h race training had you done?

In my experience you can get away with Time Crunched sort of training on anything up to 2 hour races, but once you go above that there is no substitute for actually training longer durations.

Time crunched training doesn't do anything for your core, arms, shoulders and Mental state which all come in to play hugely. If you're core is done and you still have half the race to go, you are going to feel beat up regardless.

Not annoying at all. In fact I'd had a short conversation with my teammates this morning about the same thing. At the end of last year I wasn't expecting to be doing these events, so was focused on XCO. I've trained exclusively for that and combinations of family/weather/time mean I've not done many longer rides, and have missed some crucial Sweet sport/tempo workouts.

Hence you are spot on. My pace for XCO has improved so far which is good, but clearly here I was underprepared for the duration. Some analysis of my Speed/HR shows I dropped of considerabley after 2 hours, and lets not forget this particular marathon was hard baked ground, 20 degrees and 1500m+ of climbing. - I'm also not a strong climber, and like many I cramped also. Although it didn't seem to reappear I also carried a tweak in my left quad into the race.

So although N+1 is strong I don't want to panic. The next 6 weeks plan pre Rd2 is all Tempo & SS (discussed in the trainerroad thread) indispersed with 4 or so XCO races so that should help.

will the one's off the HT fit, for a try.

Front yes, rear is 142 to QR conversion so a bit of a faff but doable!

Thanks to Krytons thread i just bought some new Tubeless wheels for the Whyte.
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/WBI25EGRS/wtb-st-i25-tcs-rim-on-el-guapo-rattlesnake-hubs

It's mostly so i can run a 2nd set of lighter faster rubber for the XC events.

I was tempted by the N+1 but trying new wheels before jumping into that.

Going to head out tomorrow hopefully doing some back to back testing between the Parkwood and the Whyte T130

I don't think a single XC bike is wise. Do you really want to wreck a carbon FS on a wet muddy Merida Brass Monkey for no gain? Don't forget the mud clearance issues almost all FS will have and that plagued you.

You can make your carbon HT comfier - Syntace P6 hiflex seat post or a lighter weight and nearly as bendy KCNC prolite. Both make a big difference. Bigger tyres at lower pressure and in extreme cases 2 pairs of shorts. If I can do 14hrs on the Manx 100 (and that is ROUGH) in comfort on a HT I'd say it's setup not the fact it's a HT per se).

The next round is really HT territory IMHO. Biggest issue will be avoiding grass covered ruts at speed (which is why I didn't enter last year as I had a big off training on the course)

You've a better or less selective memory than me adsh, thanks for the apt reminders. Yes my anthem clogged badly which was why I decide to get the HT. I have a Kcnc Scandium seatpost on the HT from XCracer but I'm not sure if the "pro lite" is a different post?

My pressures were 25psi for the Marathon ron/ralph 2.1 snakeskins. It has been noted by others I run them high...

The next round is really HT territory IMHO

I'm thinking of a bit of a rationalization/update of my bikes, too. I rode the builth marathon too on a 80mm travel spearfish, and although it is comfy and fast on lots of trails, it's a pretty nervous descender. I've also got a solaris and stumpjumper 29er, both of which are very nice, but the stumpy isn't getting ridden a lot at the moment.

The new sparks look great, with the 120mm versions having better geo than my stumpjumper (although a little less travel) and potentially a lot lighter. But I'd still like a hardtail - Does anyone know the current best chinese offering with

reach around 430mm
HA around 69
Head tube around 100mm
Chainstays somewhere around 425-430

in a medium

(i.e. I'm looking for a scale, but from china!)

Wantage/Chiterns - is it? I was going to test the Anthem...?

Hmmmm. What series is this then?

Scott Marathon - Rd 2

Syntace P6 hiflex seat post

That is now on my shopping list! cheap OEM post is doing my nut(s) in at the moment 😆

The new sparks look great, with the 120mm versions having better geo than my stumpjumper (although a little less travel)

Yesterday I demo'd the new Spark 29er, a Scale 910 an a Niner Jet RDO.

The new 120mm Spark is a really good all round trail bike. Accelerated well, good on descents and the geo is spot on. However I wouldn't really call it an XC race bike (although you could do it), might be good for marathons, but for all out racing the Scale was on another level.

The Niner was the best of both, despite having more travel it pedaled better than the Spark and descended 10x better. It is however twice the price.

Perfect, thanks lots 🙂

I'll have some of that i think. We're flying out to Andalucia a couple of days after, so that will be a nice final fling. It will also be useful potentially as quite a few of my evening Friday rides go to Wantage as we stop there for coffee.
I'll be there 🙂

Entered 😉

The new 120mm Spark is a really good all round trail bike. Accelerated well, good on descents and the geo is spot on. However I wouldn't really call it an XC race bike (although you could do it), might be good for marathons, but for all out racing the Scale was on another level.

Tsk. This is alright if you are Nino who has both of course and 100mm on his Spark.

Two pages to discover if 2 bikes is the right way for Nino, it must be good enough for me 😀

Weeksy nice one - see you there! Full or half?

weeksy - Member
Jumping on this thread slightly, but will be massively related for Kryton i imagine...

What tyres guys ? Tubeless of course.

For me it's 27.5 but i expect for him it's 29

I run Vittoria Barzo TNT up front and Mezcal TNT out back, sorted

Weeksy nice one - see you there! Full or half?

Full.

ARRRGGHHHHH No i'm not.. "Oh, that's the weekend i'm going to see Take-That in Manchester"

I've had to email them and cancel 🙁

Sorry for the de-rail.

So you've chosen Take That over a day out on the bike?

*shakes head*

You do realise you just admitted to cancelling a bike ride in favour of watching a boy band? 🙄

LOL i'm not bloody going, she's going with her mate, which means i'm looking after our 8 year old.

Interesting article, and list of prospective bikes & mods at the end:

http://marathonmtb.com/2016/08/16/bike-for-marathon-and-stage-racing/

Fancy having a bash at the hope round of the mtb marathon series, anyone else?

wors - Member
Fancy having a bash at the hope round of the mtb marathon series, anyone else?

I'm not 100% how well this one will work, what with all the walkers and other people in the area, unless they go really remote somewhere.

I have a 2016 Trek Superfly and think the Geometry is the best of any off road bike I've owned. I'm sure other new bikes from other brands are just as good so you could get more from a new bike than lighter parts on an older bike.

FWIW I did the Builth night ride on a 21 lb XC HT and hit the moor in 4th but then gradually lost ground on all the sheeptrack to end up 14th. This was partly me but partly the bike. HT is rubbish on lumpy flat stuff.

I then did the day marathon on a 29 lb trail FS. It was heavenly on the sheep track but hard work up the climbs as would be expected.

So it depends on what you ride most and how you ride it.

For a climber like me, it has to be a HT (or rigid and/or SS). It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay quicker on climbs.

I was amazed when a very well known Elite rider turned up with one of these.
https://www.canecreek.com/products/seatposts
Have tried one myself and really liked it, Transformed my HT.

You've a better or less selective memory than me adsh, thanks for the apt reminders. Yes my anthem clogged badly which was why I decide to get the HT. I have a Kcnc Scandium seatpost on the HT from XCracer but I'm not sure if the "pro lite" is a different post?

My pressures were 25psi for the Marathon ron/ralph 2.1 snakeskins. It has been noted by others I run them high...

The next round is really HT territory IMHO
Wantage/Chiterns - is it? I was going to test the Anthem...?

I think you're good with the one from XC racer - if you try to bend the saddle back you should see quite a deflection if you've got a decent amount of post showing. I have the expensive and comfortable Syntace on my HT and fitted the KCNC to my Epic. To my surprise it seems to bend as much as the Syntace.

2.1s and 25psi is where your problem lies I'd say. 2.25s and approx. 20 front 22 rear for me at the most.

I think the next round is basically the Ridgeway plus trails off it. As such it may have some dried horse hoof and vehicle ruts. If you're fast it can get a little jarring on a HT.

I rode the builth marathon too on a 80mm travel spearfish, and although it is comfy and fast on lots of trails, it's a pretty nervous descender.

I'm surprised at the 'fish feeling nervous, I find mine noticeably more relaxed than my Epic and other XC bikes. In fact I'd do so far as to say it's probably the perfect bike for these sorts of events.

I'm surprised at the 'fish feeling nervous, I find mine noticeably more relaxed than my Epic and other XC bikes. In fact I'd do so far as to say it's probably the perfect bike for these sorts of events.

The Mk1 had a 71 degree head angle and low offset forks, combined with the short top tube and long chainstays it put a lot more weight on the front wheel than more modern bikes do. I fitted a 1.5 dgree slackset from Works components to mine and it made it into such a good bike, regret selling it now. I want a new one but they are not easy to get hold of with Raleigh being the importers. I reckon if they did a better job of advertising them Spearfish would be a popular bike again.

Aha mine is a Split Pivot 69.3HA. Absolutely love it.

There's a split pivot version for sale on here

Aha mine is a Split Pivot 69.3HA. Absolutely love it.

Probably with 51mm offset forks too, i fitted some of those too to my Mk1. Great bike.

There's a split pivot version for sale on here

FWIW I run a Cannondale F29 hardtail which has quite a bit of 'flex' built into the frame and seatpost and I've managed 5 hours at a good pace which included up and around Langsett and Wharncliffe. With 2.25 Ron's running at 20psi ish its surprisingly compliant. As previous has said the biggest downside I find is the lumpy flat bits where you need to pedal. The full susser is miles faster. I don't think you can beat the newer geo short travel full sussers. I've got an Occam 29er and it is by far and away faster in every MTB situation. Its only 24lb and has Dt Swiss carbon wheels which, being so light make loads of difference getting up to speed.

There's a split pivot version for sale on here

If it was a large I'd buy it for a spare. Cheap.

I think the next round is basically the Ridgeway plus trails off it. As such it may have some dried horse hoof and vehicle ruts. If you're fast it can get a little jarring on a HT.

I did 4hrs on the ridgeway yesterday near the forthcoming Scott event.

I'd say your anthem would be faster - I was spinning out on 32/12 and grateful for the rear suspension on the Spearfish allowing me to sit for the most part.