[Closed] Why don't roadies pull over to let you past?

Oooh hobnob anybody?

Why should they?

Roadies own the road "Fact"

Not sure what's happened there. Usually roadies will spot me approaching some distance off and pick a sensible point to let me past without too much fuss.

I'll get kettle on.

Why should they?

Because don't be a dick?

you prob missed the elbow-flick

OP - oh no!! Don't ever question Road cyclists methods or logic or reason on here. I did once (shudders down the spine) about using cycle paths when available. I am still having therapy to combat the abuse received.

Probably fir the same reason other cars don't when you're behind them either.

I came down a country road on Friday, while I didn't pull in for cars I did got the gert artic lorry behind me... but I was on my own so couldn't have been too much of a pain!?

I'll get in early on the bingo card with:

Strava.

They have as much right to the road as a car driver.

I have certain points on my commute I'll pull in, other places I'll hold the traffic back as it's either unsafe or at a point where I'll be quicker than them/they'll hold me up.

When I'm driving if i catch a group I'll just sit a wait to go past, i don't expect to be let by.

Not sure what's happened there

I believe it's just people. They can behave in a manner that does not correlate with ones own sensibilities be they pedestrians, motorists, cyclists, escalator users or people queuing etc.
Sometimes people like to discuss this matter on Internet forums in the hope of gaining insight into a phenomenon that is best filed in the "people are *****" box and put back in the cupboard.

Because they are all inconsiderate fat lycra clad lance armstrong wannabe pricks. FACT.

[img] [/img]

They have as much right to the road as a car driver.

Wrong. They have an inalienable right to cycle on the queens highway. Motorists are merely licensed, this can be revoked by the state at any time.
So they have the right, the motorist has permission.

I'm with you OP. Yesterday I pulled over 5 times to let cars past, they all gave me a beep or wave. If anyone is held up by me i always give them a thank you wave

"I just drive along patiently, at least 2 car lengths behind the last rider."

Semi correct response. It does sound as if you might be one of those drivers who thinks closer is better. Like my wife! grrrr 2 car lengths is not acceptable in my book unless we are talking walking speed. . If a cyclist went down hard and fast I doubt you would stop without some very hard braking which shouldn't be needed.
I won't say that I won't wave cars through but so often people won't pass when you do that it becomes futile. The best thing is to wait patiently. It won't be for long, a mile or two maybe . It might add a few minutes but that's irrelevant really isn't it? I also refuse to react to others encouragement. If some one waves me by I'll wait until I make the decision and then I don't need any help. Spend a bit more time on the road and you'll see the other side. Above all, pat yourself on the back for knowing that you were not a dickhead.

Roadies will double up - ride side by side - when's it's safer for them & for you.

A long single file line is harder to overtake than a doubled up line.

If you couldn't get past then there just wasn't enough room .

There's no legal compulsion, AFAIK, for cyclists to pull over & let cars pass..

they're that doped up on performance enhancing drugs that they're barely aware of the road never mind a car behind them.

Seems like miscommunication, you tried to do the right thing and feel like they didn't reciprocate.

Cycling two abreast reduces the overtaking time, if you can't get past without giving 1.5 metres room then don't do it, regardless of them being single file or not. Traffic coming the other way is inevitable and doesn't create a correlation that overtaking is ok on that road.

7 peoples on bikes 1 person in a car...

Probably fir the same reason other cars don't when you're behind them either.

thats just being stupid, of course it is different (assuming the roadies are not going close to the 60mph speed limit)

I wouldn't pull over immediately but at the same time I would be aware there was someone patiently waiting behind me so would give them a chance to pass once I got to a safe place to do so.

Two car lengths behind group? That's the issue right there IMO, you should have been ~two seconds behind them, you need time to react to anything that happens to any of the cyclists.

Two car lengths could be two seconds, depending on what speed they were going.

I don't always pull over immediately if I'm riding on the road but I also hate when there are cars behind me so I do tent to make a bit of an effort to let them pass. Thing is, on a busier road this would mean stopping every couple of minutes and that's just pants.

Two car lengths behind group? That's the issue right there IMO, you should have been ~two seconds behind them, you need time to react to anything that happens to any of the cyclists.

So they didn't let me pass because you think I was too close to them?

There was plenty of time for me to stop if one of them suddenly flung themselves to the ground for some reason.

Felt helpless and confused

Guys, you've been trolled.

No, really, this is a true story, happened at lunchtime today.

I'm not saying that they have to pull over, not even saying that they should have let me past, but kind of baffled as to why they didn't, if only because I would have.

And the single-file / riding abreast thing just puzzled me even more, they went to single file so a car could come the other way, but not to let me past. I don't get it.

So they didn't let me pass because you think I was too close to them?

Can you explain why they had to let you pass? There's no legal requirement for cyclists to do so..

Personally, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

(deputising for DTF)

If a group of 7 can't maintain 30mph+ they shouldn't be on the road

use your horn next time

They maybe didn't know you were there?
I usually get really close & give a 5 second blast on the horn.
The ****s know I'm there after that.

Personally, I think [s]you're making a mountain out of a molehill.[/s] you should make a mountain bike out of some roadkill.

Four pages I reckon, it's a good attempt but it's not going to measure up to The Thread About A Small Patch Of Grass.

Road riding safely and well in a group is a skill. It requires good shared understanding between riders so that they know and can anticipate what the others are going to do given the conditions, good communication (riders at the front warning the others of road hazards, those at the back letting those in front know about cars behind/overtaking), good group discipline, and a substantial degree of cooperation/common purpose.

It's a skill which cyclists used to learn on club rides, where a new rider would quickly learn to copy what the other more experienced riders did.

The problem now is that there are a lot of cyclists riding as groups of friends on the road, who have never been on group rides with more experienced riders, and who lack those skills as a result. This includes a lot of mountainbikers who take up road riding.

From what you describe, the riders sound like just such a group of mates with poor group riding skills. In the situation you describe, I think they should have singled up to make it easier for you to overtake, but I would not have expected them to pull in and stop to allow you to pass (I've been in groups where we have done this if a vehicle has been behind us for a long time with no prospect of the road straightening/widening to allow an easier overtake, but that is usually the exception - it's a lot less disruptive/easier/safer for an individual to decide to pull over than a group).

As for the missed turn and hesitating in the middle of the road, there was no excuse for that. Usually in any club group ride, one person is leader/navigator, and halting the group in the middle of the road like that would have earned him/her some withering remarks.

[quote=thestabiliser ](deputising for DTF)
If a group of 7 can't maintain 30mph+ they shouldn't be on the road
Sorry mate, slowster seems to have done a much better job of being DTF than you have.

😆

I thought everyone hated each other except when they are pretending/vested interests and tolerating.

I call customers adult babies, because that's what they are.

Yup plebs is a fair enough term for the majority of UK citizens.

Why solve anything when you can fight over it.

Agreed, a lot of poor group riding about. Recently found myself in a near collision with a group on a narrow lane. The riders I was heading towards didn't want to move to single file or use the correct side of the road.

They might not have been riding ideally for overtaking cars behind them.

They probably also get people overtake when done so dangerously.

Im trying to say, no harm done and that we really do just need to be a bit more tolerant/ patient of each other these days.

Makes the world so much more pleasant when you don't let lifes niggles get at you so much. Whether the niggles are justified or not.

Drive safe. Ride safe. Its all good.

If it was really anywhere close to two miles then it was clearly a dick move by the cyclists. Had my own amusing experience coming up behind a pair today, the one in front waved me past and slowed at a wide spot, unfortunately not noticing he'd left his partner a good 20 yards behind and I was stuck behind her. Then she waved me past at the same point, but by then she was close enough to him (but he was past the wide spot) that I couldn't overtake her alone or both together. This continued for a few mins, them vaguely waving but not pulling in or slowing enough for me to get past them. Not malice though, just incompetence.

I think often what happens is that no one takes responsibility for the group. For example the guys at the back could pull in for you to come past, and everyone else will just carry on as normal... So everyone just carries on with what everyone else is doing until they're instructed otherwise. And in doing so, they place the responsibility on the rest of the group...

Don't get me wrong, there are definitely two sides. Sometimes it is genuinely best to carry on riding for the sake of safety and there is no need to pull over immediately. But I have also ridden in groups where many people seem completely oblivious to any traffic around them and it's embarrassing. I've seen drivers get irate on country lanes that I ride all the time where I could never imagine anyone getting irate...

In my case I wasn't in a car but on my road bike, very nearly a head on with one of the group.

Next time you encounter this, pass when you can then slow down to 10 mph in front of them.
It's safer for everyone.

Basically I am in agreement with the " bikes on the road by right, the vehicle in front has right of way"

One time I was driving in argyle tho a large 20+ chaingang held up around 40 cars for miles and miles. I wa driving at cycling speed for around 10 miles waiting for the 40 cars to get past so I could have anopportunity. - and this was on a wide road but twisty so few overtaking opportunities and the group of cyclists were strung out in single file - the line of them was long enough and with no gaps in it that overtaking was tricky. that one annoyed me as it was so long

It's a skill which cyclists used to learn on club rides, where a new rider would quickly learn to copy what the other more experienced riders did.

The problem now is that there are a lot of cyclists riding as groups of friends on the road, who have never been on group rides with more experienced riders, and who lack those skills as a result. This includes a lot of mountainbikers who take up road riding.

Very true; when I started on the road nearly 30 years ago for the first few rides 'old Ken' shadowed me barking orders and teaching me how to ride in a group.

Now I'm a bit of an old Ken myself, i try to impart some of this knowledge but I have at times been quite robustly rebuffed; people nowadays don't like to be told they are doing things 'wrong'. It maybe a Southeast thing; lots of rich alpha male types down here have taken to bike riding. There are also quite a few who are actually pretty fit and fast but don't realise that doesn't make them a good rider. Example, I commented to a clubmate about passing parked cars closely; having been doored once it won't happen to me again, and was suggesting he leave a good distance. But got quite an aggressive 'it's OK, I know what I'm doing, I can react in time'

Another thing when I lead rides (road or mountain) that involve country lanes, particularly hills on country lanes, I ask the group to climb at a comfortable pace but don't get strung out into 2 riders followed by a short gap followed by a soloist followed by a gap followed by a soloist followed by a gap...... instead allow a proper gap to open so cars can leap frog - I hate seeing a group of 8 cyclists taking up 50 yards of length in a way that doesn't allow people to get past, much rather 3 or 4 and then a 20 yard gap and then another group.

^^^if everyone did that the roads would be just that bit more harmonious.

And the single-file / riding abreast thing just puzzled me even more, they went to single file so a car could come the other way, but not to let me past. I don't get it.

You really can't see the difference between an overtake and oncoming traffic?

On a narrow country road when a car comes the other way the are basically two options.

1. Don't move over/single out, stop and have a face off with car coming the other way until someone reverses.
2. Go single file and pass closely, (relatively quickly due to opposite direction of travel) - this is not necessarily safe but it beats option 1, with the added bonus that everyone can see what's going on.

If you're behind, and there isn't room to pass safely then singling out will do nothing, as there still won't be room to pass safely, and it will make any potential overtake less safe as it will take longer, the riders also won't be able to see you like they can with an oncoming car.

This goes on for two miles.

2 miles sounds a [i]little[/i] long, but how fast were they travelling? 10mph, 15mph maybe? 20mph?
I'll assume 15mph as a sensible and realistic speed, so 2 miles is 4-8 mins, 4 mins is barely anything, I've sat at traffic lights that take almost that long to change before. If they were going slower then I can't imagine anyone being that oblivious to you for >10mins, so either some exaggeration going on or actually something else, like they really didn't feel there was a safe or opportune moment to stop.

It's unusual for anyone 'roadie' or otherwise to actually do something like that on purpose to annoy you, most of the time riders will pull in if there is an appropriate spot if there is a car behind, even if they're not doing it out of courtesy they'll do it because they don't want an angry impatient driver behind them itching to overtake at the slightest opportunity, just like you said you don't in your OP, but by the sounds of it you also don't ride in a group much, so you probably also don't have any idea how difficult it can actually be to communicate well enough to get everyone to do the right thing at the right time! Trying to keep new riders and intro rides in order with our club can be a flippin nightmare, and there's no L plates for bike riders 😉

In reality you were't inconvenienced, as I'm sure once you were past them you were able to continue your journey until the next thing that slowed you down, like the next car, or traffic lights etc.

But then again maybe they were dicks, dicks ride bikes as well as drive cars and walk places you know, so please don't tar other 'cyclists' with that brush, just like I don't blame you for other drivers poor or dangerous driving 😉

Im trying to say, no harm done and that we really do just need to be a bit more tolerant/ patient of each other these days.

Makes the world so much more pleasant when you don't let lifes niggles get at you so much. Whether the niggles are justified or not.

Drive safe. Ride safe. Its all good.

basically this ^

* Also, on the why should they comments, even taking out the courtesy side of it, have you ever realised the effect this can have on a journey? put yourself in their shoes for a moment if they stopped to let every car past that came up behind them they could be doing that every few minutes on some roads, imagine how annoying that would be! A lot more annoying than someone having to (continue) travelling forwards behind them but at a slightly slower speed for a while. You only interacted with them for a brief snapshot of their journey for a few minutes, they might have already stopped to let 20 cars past that morning and just got fed up of it...

There's no legal requirement for cyclists to do so..

There is no way I can safely pass, some are two abreast, so I just drive along patiently, at least 2 car lengths behind the last rider.

[URL= http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/robertedj/the-highway-code-stopping-distances_zpsi2ezl3t3.jp g" target="_blank">http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/robertedj/the-highway-code-stopping-distances_zpsi2ezl3t3.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

maybe they overshot the junction worrying about how close you were?

I'll assume 15mph as a sensible and realistic speed, so 2 miles is 4-8 mins

It's 8, not 4.

I've sat at traffic lights that take almost that long to change before

What crap.

Sometimes it's defensive cycling. Unsafe to pass so double up to discourage dangerous driving.

Similar to where I'll take the middle of the lane coming up to an island to prevent someone trying to squeeze past way too close.

However, as for the rules, highway code rule 66...

[i]never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends[/i]

[quote=deadkenny ]highway code rule 66...

is quite frankly a load of bollocks and needs to be changed or deleted. It tells you to single out at precisely the points where it's not likely to be safe to do so.

2miles at 40m/hr (twisty narrow country lane) 3minutes

2miles at 15m/hr 8minutes

so potential 5 minutes delay?

I think the road cyclists were inconsiderate.

While they mightily need to allow the car behind to pass, it's surely it's safer if they do, saves a frustrated driver doing a dangerous overtake.

Anyway, I thought there was a highway code thing about slower vehicles pulling over to allow faster traffic to pass?

Anyway, I thought there was a highway code thing about slower vehicles pulling over to allow faster traffic to pass?

Sounds like you need some bed time reading or is that the partial quote of the rule that suits? - after all you only missed out the most important part of the rule.

For me it's slowriders point - have you tried pulling over an inexperienced group into a passing place?

Disruptive, dangerous and likely to leave riders stopping in front of you anyway. They probably felt bad about keeping you behind them but tbh not a lot they could sensibly have done if it was as narrow as you say.

As a single cyclist it is very very different! No cats to herd 🙂

Did the OP ask if they all voted remain ?

That'll be your answer.

We live in a rural area, popular with roadies.

Generally no problem, but my heart sinks when I happen upon a group on a single track road. They will rarely make an overt effort to let you pass. 1 or 2 riders normally will. I think it's just terrible group mentality, none of them wanted to be seen as giving in to the motorist.

Another one that gets me. Out for a nice road ride at my own pace a couple of months ago, a chain gang overtakes me absolutely busting a gut to do so - then slows down right in front of me, to the point where I'm not just coasting but actively having to brake to avoid going into the fat guys at the back. Forced me to overtake the lot of 'em to ride at my pace again (leaving them behind, as it happens).

Mob mentality. I don't drive, but I'm with the OP on this.

If your holding up traffic for any length of time, I've always thought it good manners to pull over and let traffic pass. Highway Code agrees.

69
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.

I'm with the op, why couldn't they pull over?

I consider it inpolite if they don't.

More than happy to wait until it's safe. I hate holding up traffic if I'm cycling on the road, do my best to keep stuff moving behind me.

You're generally in a car because you need to get somewhere, not for fun, getting someone's rubbish time done quicker in a car is a higher priority to me than people's leisure.

There are infinite leisure activities, driving is often a means to an end you'd much rather not be doing.

See it as selfish people putting their good times ahead of lessening people's bad times.

Ps don't bring legal rights or obligations into it, if you can't personally correctly decide the right thing to do, shouldn't be putting yourself in potentially life altering/ending situations.

I'd expect a group ride to be easily doing 25mph+ on flatish terrain, having someone in a car driving just two seconds behind them would probably be considered rather aggressive and intimidatary?, just like the twonk who played the high revs game on my tail the other day for ~40 metres as we passed parked vehicles on a badly potholed road.

Passing the parked vehicles, i want to give them ~1.5 metres space in case anyone opens a door, or tries to pull out. I also expect anyone overtaking me to give me at least 1.5 metres space, as per the recent crackdowns going on around the UK by police.

So it is perfectly reasonable for me to ride in the middle of the remaining space, effectively riding in primary, to visually tell that twonk behind to have some bloody patience for ~10 seconds.

But OP, the real answer in your situation is that you should have cycled to drop off your nipper, it would avoided this whole meeting with the group and you would feel better for the short ride. 😉

It's 8, not 4.

It's 8 [i]if[/i] it was a full two miles, and if they were going a bit faster than 15mph it's less than 4min per mile so I stand by my 4-8 mins comment.

What crap.

I happen to know you live a very long way away from me, so your knowledge of my local traffic lights is likely to be lacking. 3-4 mins cycle on some round here is not unusual.

The problem now is that there are a lot of cyclists riding as groups of friends on the road, who have never been on group rides with more experienced riders, and who lack those skills as a result. This includes a lot of mountainbikers who take up road riding.

+1

Once again a bike forum lumps all drivers into a group of aggressive morons while cyclists are always in the right. About the same proportion of drivers and cyclists shouldn't be on the road (ok the driver of a car can do more damage than the cyclist)

Yes a fast club ride can average 25mph but most don't particularly in rolling country like the Peak. Riding in a group can be defensive but it also requires skill and awareness of whats going on around you which a lot of people don't appear to have.

A lot of the groups I see out have just about grasped the need to single out on narrow winding roads but miss the need for large groups to separate out so that cars can safely pass. I saw a group of 20-25 riders out this weekend strung out over 400-500m with gaps of about 1-1.5 cars length between them and 20 to thirty cars behind. I even saw one rider who had presumably been dropped trying to undertake the cars stuck behind (this was on a road not wide enough for central lines). Presumably if a car had been coming the other way and one of the cue of cars had hit the cyclist it would have been the drivers fault.

Safely riding and driving on roads is about curtesy its a two way thing

I'd just like to thank the Leicestershire chapter of the Lamborghini Owners Club for waiting patiently behind the group I was riding with on Saturday, and who gave an appreciative blip on the loud pedal after they found space to get past and continue to make LOUD progress.

Still, if you drive machines that wide on country lanes, you probably get used to it!

If your holding up traffic for any length of time, I've always thought it good manners to pull over and let traffic pass. Highway Code agrees.

69
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.

Exactly, gets glossed over.

But OP, the real answer in your situation is that you should have cycled to drop off your nipper,

....and stayed to run line 😀

It was 2.4 miles I was behind them, I just checked on the map...

I had to go pick up daughter, I then dropped her at home, and then rode the 8 miles back to the match (missed the kick-off, to be fair it would have been a tall order to get back for the start even if I hadn't been delayed), letting a couple of cars past me 🙂

They won 8-0 btw

At no time did they need to ride defensively as at no point was I aggressive towards them.

Were they all wearing helmets and hiviz? Pesky Lycra lout mamils clogging up the roads and not paying road tax...

Whoohoo. Other people who see it like me. Its modern life. People find a nice new fad on the web and try it out. No tradition or training. Same as climbing. People tell me they are climbers yet don't go outside or climb real rock! The rise of Sportives hasn't helped. People see the shite riding there and just take it into real life. A new bunch of riders forms having watch the TdF and has no idea bout riding as a bunch. I was nearly taken out the other day by a newcomer to our bunch who, before we had time to instruct him, ( you can lay down the laws before a pedal is turned really)decided to single out. Good choice but he was on the inside and stopped pedalling. The outer rider who was doing the same, correctly, had no where to go. Its like many other activities. People buy in at a level they are not really at and make mistakes. The days of apprentices prevented this.
Not the total solution but part of it. think.

"Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass."

just for the interests of balance i thought i'd put up the full horses mouth quote from the highway code* instead of the vague memories of peoples darkest realms of their mind partial quotes we are getting.

*as displayed on the .gov website.

Have you tried shouting 'Fore' or 'playing through' at them? Roadies should understand that terminology and take appropriate action.
😆

I suspect they were referring to the code as they rode along, "nah, it's ok lads, it's only a Fiat Panda, not a long queue of traffic, as you are"

I saw a group of 20-25 riders out this weekend strung out over 400-500m with gaps of about 1-1.5 cars length between them and 20 to thirty cars behind.

I know exactly what you mean and it's what i put in my post above, I ask my groups to consider that and split into smaller groups with gaps in between to allow leapfrogging.

However, in sport I just calculated - 400m / 25 riders, if they were all single riders, is a gap of 18m between each.

What kind of cars are normal in your neck of the woods 😉

[img] [/img]

Had this recently near us,
big bunch chatting in the middle of a National Speed Limit road.
A wide footpath and verge, so no excuse.
Idiots be idiots.

If I'm riding from Burnley down to Tod, I'll pull in a few times on the slower top bit, because the traffic is busy and fast at peak times.
Polite, innit?

On the bottom half, no chance.
I'm usually doing over 20mph anyway, it's only a 30 limit and double white lines, with plenty of safe places to pass only minutes away in Tod.

Context innit?

I'm glad I've only got three jobs on today this should be interesting.

My bets are the OP reads the daily Mail pays road tax and has used the term should be riding in 'single file'

Roadies will double up - ride side by side - when's it's safer for them & for you.

I won't anymore. Only did it on wide roads but the abuse I got made it totally pointless in the long run.

It led to, essentially, a near-continuous stream of punishment passes with the occasional scream from the passenger window of "SINGLE FILE, YOU TOSSERS" or similar.

I think it's the doubling up that finally hits the batshit button.
😀

Although still poor, the reaction to cyclists taking the high line seems to be improving.

STEREOTYPE The worst drivers I find for cutting me up are young girls, no matter what car they're in STEREOTYPE