[Closed] what comfortable 'all day' touring bike?

Discs?
Drops or flats?

I'm going for a Disc Trucker after a very long think and a few test rides.

I looked at:
Kona Sutra.
Dawes Galaxy/Grand Tour.
Ridgeback Panorama.
Oxford Bike Works.
Trek 520/720/920.
The new Cannondales.
Spa Audax/Tourer/Roughstuff.

I want a triple, discs, drops and no tyre overlap on a small frame.

So that's the Disc Trucker then.
Currently waiting for stock, looks like December before I get mine.

I think the main thing is fit

Followed by tyre pressure

Followed by seat post diameter

I'm not convinced that our arses can really differentiate between steel and aluminium

If your road bike has the correct position then replicate that

I think Ridgeback do some nice touring bikes

I wasnt really too impressed with the cantis on the Tricross but that may have been setup or pad issues. The bike was lent to me.

I like drops so would prob go with them again.

Despite big tyres on the Tricross it felt harsh compared to my carbon road bike....tho again i wasnt using the same saddle or seatpost.....

Go and talk to Spa Cycles about their own brand steel or bargain Ti bikes.

My Indy Fab Club Racer. All you asked for.......except the discs bit!

Surly straggler.

Salsa Vaya.
Love mine.

Genesis Tour de Fer 20.
Tubus racks, Dynamo lighting, 3x10 Deore trekking group set. Proper 36h wheels
I doubt there's anything to touch it for £1299.

That said, if you like drops, my Croix de Fer 10 loads up rather nicely. I was impressed to be honest.

The only Spa bike with discs at the mo is the Adventurer - about £1500.
They are prototyping a disc tourer and a gravel type bike at the mo, but they won't be out 'till next year.

The Genesis PP mentioned is wonderful value, but it's flat bar only.
Which is bloody annoying tbh.

I'm waiting for the marketing numbskulls at Genesis to update their website with the new models, just to get the geo on the TDF 20 and see if a drop bar conversion is a possibility.
The Vagabond looks good too, but needs a triple.

Tripster. Mine was brilliant touring this year. Tubus rack and a triple up front.

Rusty Spanner the geometry is on here

http://www.tweekscycles.com/Product.do?method=view&n=3286&g=907637&p=913578&d=124&c=4&l=2&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Road%20Bikes&gclid=CJPo_L2OjsgCFdVAGwodvkIDgw

Perhaps a bit long for drop bars

Thanks!

Sadly, you're right.
Even the extra small is a little longer than the 50 cm Trucker, which fits well with the standard short stem.

The useful extras on the Genesis over the Surly add up to over £400 UK retail.
But I just don't fancy another flat bar tourer.

Uhhh, are Thorn/SJS doing anything you fancy?

If your wallet will stretch there are some beautiful custom builders out there, traditional lugs, custom geo, build it up your way.

Wow, lots of choice here and some lovely looking bikes. I have had my eye taken by a Sabbath Silk Route, but the thought of a custom steel seems really tempting. Having only done off the peg bikes before then the custom idea is scary as i may be asking for 'chips and custard' when i really need egg and bacon. Im hoping a frame builder would guide me.....

Disc Trucker is arguably the obvious choice for a modern steel drop-bar tourer. I love mine. Sure, it's not light (though not too bad, a sniff over 30lb without the rear rack, and you could go plenty lighter) but it can do anything and everything and the geometry is good.

[img] [/img]

Wow that looks great!

in the spirit of recommend what you have...

Specialized AWOL

ticks all the boxes, massive clearance for big tyres with full guards, bosses for front and rear racks, sturdy but comfy steel frame, dependable kit.

The bottom end model (about £1k) has a triple and is only a granny ring change away from almost perfect with gearing.

but equally plenty of as good or better for you suggestions above, mine was a toss up between the AWOL and a Salsa Vaya, which a friend has, they're very similar and it was the colour that decided for me!

Had a Surly lht one of the most uninspiring bikes I ever had sold it bought a Thorn frame had that feel like no other bike i have ridden before or since (maybe the magic steel thing) and Thorn do an amazing amount of size variations and are not that expensive when you take into the equation the service, advice, and guarantee you get?

I don't know if its still the case but the used to offer to take the bike bake if after a month you were unhappy ,now that is confidence for you.

Thorn still do that exchange deal. Im finding it a bit of a minefield as i have seen Genesis Croix de Fer 20 for 799 new! But im off to have a look at the AWOL too 🙂

What size do you need? I have a small Kona Sutra for sale which I'm not using.
Email in profile.

The bottom end model (about £1k) has a triple and is only a granny ring change away from almost perfect with gearing.

Would that was true. I hope I'm wrong but

As i understand it those road tripples are 30 tooth smallest ring

You can't use a MTB triple as the front mech won't reach far enough

So you need a smaller road triple. Maybe from Spa cycles. Or a square taper MTB chainset with a longer bottom bracket

So a 12 36 cassette might be easier

But yes the AWOL looks lovely

Another of the get what ive got its ace. I give you the stoater 😉 fantastic bike

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I'd offer up Cannondales Synapse Adventure from Evans (only they stock them)

I'd have thought the 30x32 low end of the Awol is low enough for most if not all stuff other than loaded off-roading. I managed to drag two weeks' worth of kit through the Jura/Alps/Auvergne/etc on tarmac with a 26x28, which isn't far off, and although I certainly made use of that gear I don't think I'd have benefited from lower (especially considering that I'd mainly loaded the rear of the bike). YMMV in spades, obvs.

I'd have thought the 30x32 low end of the Awol is low enough for most if not all stuff other than loaded off-roading

Agree, but a 28t for when you're tired isn't a bad thing 😉

As i understand it those road tripples are 30 tooth smallest ring

It takes a normal 74BCD granny (on the 2015 model with FSA chainset anyway), 30t is default but go down to 26, or even 24 (Middleburn list one, as do TA and others), that coupled with the 32t cassette should be plenty low enough.

If you absolutely must have smaller then yes a change of chainset and front mech may be required, but there is some leeway with clearance so you might not even need to change the mech, and don't forget you could always use a 34 or 36t cassette ( with MTB mech if the OEM Sora one won't stretch, it would probabyl do 34... )

Either way, and LBS worth their name should do mods like that at POS for minimal cost for you.

Very glad to be wrong. I'll look into that. It goes back on my cycle to work scheme possible bike list

It's worth remember too that minor spec niggles like that with ANY bike, can often sway your decision when comparing internet specs, but it's often only a "could you swap this for that?" discussion with your LBS to sort out it's worth asking the question as you can often get exactly what you want without having to be swayed to make comprises elsewhere.

Some decent ones will do it at no cost if the parts are comparable, but most will at least do it on a price difference basis or do you a deal on the parts and fit for free and give you the OEM bits to flog.

Any LBS not willing to make [i]minor [/i]changes at POS isn't worth bothering with in my opinion.

Obviously asking for the entire groupset to be swapped or something might be taking the pee a bit, but a granny ring here, a stem there, tyres etc. is where the 'service' element of your LBS should come through.

OK not a deal breaker but the smallest middle ring is 36. Ithink 26, 38, 48 woul works well.

But if I don't go touring it may well be fine as it is

Thank again

Oh no! Now i love the Shand Stoater!

This could get expensive! Im having lots of fun looking at these suggestions

gf has a Ridgeback, and i'm quite jealous of it. It's coped very well with some pretty heavily loaded touring, and its great unloaded too. Got a proper touring gear-range too (26t granny ring, 34t cassette) and it's done pretty much everything from road rides to off-road canal path style pootles with the standard spec.

Some on offer here:
http://www.ukbikesdepot.com/m115b187s860p0/RIDGEBACK/TOURING_BIKES/TOURING_BIKES

All i'd change on the lower spec ones is the canti's for some cheap mini-V's (easier to set up and more powerful IME).

They look nice in the flesh in a sort of understated classic steel kind of way too.

I really liked the Ridgeback I tried.
Fast and huge fun for a tourer.
The frame is a cracker, but I preferred the steadier ride & 26 wheels of the Surly.

The disc Ridgeback is lovely but comes in the colour of something squeezed out of a cat.

I use a 22/32/44 chainset with an 11.28 cassette .Gets me up anything and is fast enough on the flat

I've run a Ridgeback tourer for the last couple of years, its a good bike out of the box.

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[url= https://flic.kr/p/hw4oAa ]Barra Beach[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/107347896@N06/ ]Richard Picton[/url], on Flickr

Had a great day hacking around the lanes, and bridle ways around here today on my Vaya.
Love it.

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I am liking the previously recommended Ridgeback tourers. The major difference seems to be the tubeset used in manufacturing the frame. On a laden touring frame how much difference will i experience or 'feel' in an 853 vs a lower grade frameset?

Can anyone shed any light on this as i have no real experience with laden bikes.

On a laden touring frame how much difference will i experience or 'feel' in an 853 vs a lower grade frameset?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say 'bugger all'

The stiffness and actual design of the frame will have a much bigger impact than the specific tubeset used, and your load and where you carry it will have as much part to play in how the bike feels as anything else, but I doubt even a seasoned tourer could detect the difference between say 853 and 520 or any plain 4130 cromo on a loaded bike.

The 1-2lb or so you *might* save on the frame weight will be lost in the weight of the load, so unless you're looking at soem properly low end hi tensile frames I wouldn't worry too much, but hey, the 853 sticker has some value 😉

It's worth doing a bit of reading about the bikes you're looking at and thinking about how you're going to carry your load too, some bikes are very biased towards carrying at the rear, others the front, and some a very neutral and will be happy with either/both. That can dictate and influence how the bikes are built, for example if you get a light weight skinny tubed, low-trail steel bike designed for carrying at the front, and the strap all your gear onto a rear rack it's going to waggle and sway around all over the place. Likewise, go an put all your load at the front on a high-trail bike with a burly back end and comfy fork and it's going to be equally as awful.

Fortunately most off the shelf options are relatively neutral and very adaptable but will probably expect a rearward bias, so will be sufficiently sturdy at the back to cope with it, test riding them unloaded you'd never feel any difference as they all feel stiff and clumpy, but add some weight on and you'll get a feel for how much they flex and waggle, a lot of bikes get more comfy the more weight you add (to a point).

This is as i thought. The cachet of 853 is v attractive as if feels like im doing the 'right thing' but the cost differential is significant. However i know that an 853 bike will see me wandering into the garage to look at it with a cup of tea before bed!

Its all so difficult...and fun too 🙂

Amedias has it. I think by the time you make a tourer stiff enough to carry an average load 853's strength has less advantage on a road-going bike - you should already be passing the fatigue standards by the fact you're not using skinny or too-thin tubes. With 853 you'll save 200g tops and have possibly more easily dinged tubes. For me a tourer should be pretty, comfy, effective and also replacable, since travel takes it's toll on bikes. That means good old cromoly or heat-treated cromoly (eg Prestige, 725) is ideal, really nice stuff when used well.
853 is what I'd spend extra on if I was making a gram-counting, TDR type of rough-road tourer that would see 10s of 1000s of miles of hard use in places 100+ miles from anything. Just for the insurance value of it.

If your doing real touring, ferries abroad and bikes on bus roof, the 853 will make the inevitable dings and scratches even more painful. I remember getting a ferry to Spain and the bikes were just piled into the car hold, some guy with a carbon road bike was apoplectic.

I have a specialized AWOL and really like it. It has a comfortable riding position , handles well laden with panniers , front and rear racks, full mudguards and discs, can run up to a 2" tyre - it's very 'sturdy' and definitely no lightweight but I'd guess some posh wheels would be a later upgrade to help that (or just ride a bit more) for the money I think it's spot on

I toured in Cuba a few months ago, and i'd agree with the above in that getting something cheaper is probably the way to go! Our bikes came back with numerous war wounds form being slung in the cargo space of coaches, sticking out the back of taxis or scratches from plane travel etc. It's pretty much unavoidable and part of the fun, so definitely get a bike you won't be too precious about!

Previously I've used a 2nd Saracen Tufftrax picked up off ebay for about 25 quid and spent another 30 or so fixing up (cables, bottom bracket). I'd happily do something like that again.

Im also loving the Surly Ogre. It seems a good frame and i have wheels etc to build up. Is there any love for this bike?

You're a bit more limited with tyres if you go the old skool Dawes/Ridgeback route.
Not being able to fit bigger rubber might be a bit limiting in terms of comfort for the inevitable off road jaunts?

Trolls and Ogres are ace, but you're ruling out drops.
Great for butterfly/Jones/flats though.
🙂

To similar to my old bike for me, nice though they are.

The new Cycling Plus has a test of the Panorama and Genesis Vagabond, BTW, been meaning to mention it.
Interesting reading, they really like the Genesis.

Keep Pedalling in Manchester do Surly, Genesis and Ridgeback.
Might wait to have a sit on the Vagabond before committing to the Surly.

My genesis equilibrium has been pretty bombproof fully loaded on the rear across italy france and spain, comfy but still quite fast

Ooh, im off to have a look at those on www now! Thanks for the input, this is a little more tricky than i imagined!

Im also loving the Surly Ogre. It seems a good frame and i have wheels etc to build up. Is there any love for this bike?

Oh yes indeedy! As above it probably rules out drops, but I have seen them with the flared drop bars fitted. Mine is probably more comfy than the Panorama (with 2.2 tyres on...)

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[url= https://flic.kr/p/oniaLv ]P1030090[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/107347896@N06/ ]Richard Picton[/url], on Flickr

Innit?

It's easy to get distracted.
🙂

I'm pretty much set on the Disc Trucker.
It fits, I like the ride and it does what I want - some camping, hilly back road touring, cycleroutes,shopping, commuting.

Should be fine with big tyres on towpaths and smoother off road stuff.
No overlap with smaller wheels too.

The Thorn Sherpa is nice too, if you don't need discs.
Sorry.
🙂

Oh and the Surly ECR is lush if you fancy something different.
Bit ott for me but so nice to ride.

Brenin, if you're serious about the Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe (the disc model) I'd get your skates on - looks like it's frame only for the 2016 model year.

Another genius marketing move by the group who dropped the dropped bar Genesis Tour de Fer after wonderful reviews and selling out within months.

CTC are going anti-disc at the moment...My experience concurs with theirs.

How come?

Have spent a while agonising over brakes.

The only problem I can think of is bent rotors.
If I have to use planes & boats, the plan was to remove 'em first.

I'm more likely to end up in Cork than Ouagadougou, so I should be OK for spares.

Have I missed something vital?
I was rather looking forward to being able to stop properly. 😐

Two reasons really.

Overheating when drag braking on long descents with resultant fade when you need the braking at the bottom of the hill (Robin Thorn has a good rant about this too on his website, especially for tandems).

Also, lack of comfort at the front because forks have to be made stronger.

It's in the latest magazine.

My experience is that the discs which work so well off-road in Morzine can fade on the long fast road descent from Avoriaz. I am 'big-boned', though.

Love my Surly Disk trucker. A few observations:

I built it up from bits i had lying around, then adjusted and tinkered (as you do). Final build, other than the hope hubs, is pretty much identical to the whole bike build. Surly know what they are doing.

Straggler seems to be all but identical, other than it could take hub gears without a tensioner. I might have been tempted by the straggler had i realized that, as im a sucker for an alfine (though the gear range isnt wide enough when its properly loaded)

Genesis Tour De Fer is totally comparable to the Surly, at a good chunk of less money. I would strongly consider the TdF, though the 2016 ones are flat bar specific, and i like drops.

With discs you do need to learn not to drag the brakes. Build up a bit of speed, brake firmly to scrub it off, then repeat. On long straights you can go pretty fast on a stable, loaded bike. If you're going to the Alps/big mountain roads then couple of spare pairs of sintered pads will help as they don't fade as much as organic.

The CTC beef was with short steep ones e.g. into Lynmouth. No choice but to drag on 25% !

Good points.

I've boiled hydro's once, didn't realise it was a big problem with cable discs.
I'll have a read.
I usually stop and let rims or discs cool down on big descents, give each brake a rest etc, but I know it's not always possible.

As to comfort.
I have read the comments on disc forks in the Thorn brochure.
I'm sure he's right.

However, my current bike has a pair of straight Kona P2's.
I've got used to it, but I'm convinced the legs are solid.
2 inch tyres cover a multitude of sins.
🙂

Lots to think about, thanks.

A Thorn test ride might be on the cards.

Sorry for the thread hijack Brenin, hope you're finding this helpful.

Read the CTC report on discs. Frankly it smacked of a prejudged agenda rather than open minded journalism. Interesting that worn, buckled rims or limited tyre widths weren't mentioned but discoloured discs and boiling fluid were. Having ridden laden bikes with SP caliper, DP caliper, centre pull, canti, V brakes, mechanical and hydraulic discs, hydro discs are significantly more effective than anything else at stopping you and your kit. No system is perfect but their report was astonishingly one sided.

downshep - on re-reading I kinda agree with that.

Today, whilst changing pads I noticed my Thorn's rear rim was blown - a pad through a rim is unmanageable whereas fade you can look for a good bail point and cycle front to rear braking whilst looking !

Fair point on short steep descents, had a few of those in Normandy this summer. I think the advantages still outweigh any downsides though. You could also put bigger rotors on and finned pads (depending on the brake model) if you expect this kind of terrain on a trip.

It appears that disc or rim brake is a bit of a connundrum here. It seems like when the industry pushes ahead with a new standard it makes choice more difficult. The continuing change in standards makes it difficult as a bike horder.

The bike im looking for is quite niche to me. I dont mind adding another bike to the stable, but it would have to fulfill its role very well. I have bikes that i can 'make do' for cycle touring, but the chance of owning aomething specific for that role is v tempting.

I have fallen in love with the Shand Stoater...its expensive, but i could see it living in my lounge...and that sort of bike lust is hard to put a price on!

The CTC beef was with short steep ones e.g. into Lynmouth. No choice but to drag on 25% !

Errr yes there is - brake for a bit then coast for a bit - and that hill is only 25% for a short bit at the bottom anyway. After riding down it with rim brakes I would have sold my ass to have discs instead (I nearly lost it anyway after cooking the rim brake pads so I could actually SMELL them burning!!!).

Peterpoddy to the thread please - he basically pedals an articulated truck when touring!!

I'm a ctc member and i've just read that CTC article in the latest mag, usually i consider the CTC to be quite fair and unbiased in it's tech articles but that was a complete hatchet job.

Not impressed with the quality of reporting.

Condor Fratello, obvs.

This was a short haulage trip rather than a touring load, and I only had a few gentle hills between me and the destination but would definitely not have wanted to be without my discs.

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Throw in some weather and the discs win hands down EVERY time for me, the very few downsides are just not worth the trade off of going back to rim brakes if you're going to be carrying anything bigger than a saddle bag IMO.

I was also a bit dissapointed in the bias and level of discussion in that CTC article, they're normally are much better than that, although the forums are still frequented by plenty (althoguh a minority but a vocal minority at times!) of people who begrudge anything modern or more complicated than a 3speed with rod brakes.

In deffence of rim brakes, I practicaly moved house on my tourer (with about 90l of panniers, stuff on the rack and a 40l backpack). No problems with canti brakes.

Errr yes there is - brake for a bit then coast for a bit - and that hill is only 25% for a short bit at the bottom anyway. After riding down it with rim brakes I would have sold my ass to have discs instead (I nearly lost it anyway after cooking the rim brake pads so I could actually SMELL them burning!!!).

While true, it still only works upto a point. Eventually you kill the brakes, and 9/10 the disks go before the rim brakes. Look how infrequent tyre blow outs are in the TDF (or more amateurish, the Etap) Vs reporters cooking brakes testing disk's on the same hills. I'm sure the reporters aren't that incompetent.

I can see the benefits of disks, but steep descents don't strike me as one of them.