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The above advice must have been written by a government funded car driver with a hatred of cyclists,
That theory is debunked on the main thread I'm afraid
molgrips
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It does explicitly say it’s not what YOU consider reasonable, it’s what other normal people consider reasonable.
In which case what I consider reasonable is normal, because all of my cycling friends also agree. So I guess that cleared that up!
crikeyMember
I’m really happy to be spending my nights working in Intensive Care while people piss and moan about how far they can play out.
Then you Sir are a gentleman, and worthy of the clap .. every Thursday evening.
Although myself - I would rather not have the clap. And I am not happy to spend my working week visiting hospital and community settings while being dictated to by people, most likely sat on their overweight arses WFH, repeating opinion as fact about where I can take my 1-a-day exercise on the days I have off.
17. Cycling is a valid form of exercise and is also a suitable way of going to work. Cycling is generally a low-risk activity but with emergency services under pressure, it is important to take steps to manage risk wherever possible. An accident or a breakdown far from home would place additional strain on health services or require a further journey to be made by someone else to provide assistance.
The important bit I picking up here is - it is important to take steps to manage risk wherever possible.
So dont be a dick; and take the items needed to cover such events so nobody has to drive to pick you up if you do have a mechanical ... thats what the pockets on back of your jersey are for; its not difficult to understand!
Tubes - pump - multi-tool - spare link .. sorted!
Meanwhile hikers are outraged that they’re restricted to distances no further than they can commando crawl from home.
OK, now you're just being ridiculous. It clearly says bum shuffling.
So dont be a dick; and take the items needed to cover such events so nobody has to drive to pick you up if you do have a mechanical … thats what the pockets on back of your jersey are for; its not difficult to understand!
Tubes – pump – multi-tool – spare link .. sorted!
Remember though, that most people don't know how to fix a puncture or take a wheel off. And if my own experience is typical, a lot of those people have found a dusty BSO in the shed or panic bought one in halfords, and they're loose in the wild!
RichPenny - point taken😟
That's precisely why the definition of "reasonable" is so bad in these circumstances.
It's supposed to be an objective term (the "reasonable" person...) and remove the subjectivity around it but it doesn't. To most people on here, a 40 mile road ride is perfectly reasonable. A normal day-to-day ride, nothing out of the ordinary.
To the general public, who cannot even get their heads around riding 5 miles, that is not reasonable. To me, I don't even think about it beyond taking tubes, a couple of tools, a pump and a bottle of water so it's perfectly reasonable. To me.
It's why people get let off on dangerous driving charges all the time because the defintion is "far below the reasonable standard of driving" and the jury sort of look at it and go "meh, we all drive like that" ignoring the fact that they're all unreasonable but that has become the new "normal".
I get your point re the word reasonable. But I don't understand your reference to 'reasonable' with regard to what you would consider a 'reasonable' distance to cycle. You think nothing of cycling 40 miles. Great, me too. But it says ......'Cycling should be local, as a rule of thumb limited to travelling no further than a reasonable walking distance from home.' Unless you are mooman (swoon) a reasonable walking distance from home is what, 5-10 miles?
I don't live in Wales - no offence chaps/ chappesses - and I know that roads are not laid in anything approximating perfect circles but....using 2*pi*r, assuming circular roads - use your imagination - 5 miles away from your start point gives you a circumference of 31 miles.
Two circuits should be enough.
So...2.5 miles from home, based on perfect circle, gives you 15.5 miles; 10 miles from home gives you 62 miles.
In the event of a mechanical - or any other failure - how far are you prepared to walk?
a reasonable walking distance from home is what, 5-10 miles?
Not in road shoes and cleats, "reasonable" is about 200m!
MTB shoes I might stretch to a couple of miles.
The reason behind it is if you have a mechanical, to be able to get home without being an unneccesary burden on anyone else. But you could extend that to driving too - if you break down that's the services of a mechanic / towtruck, possibly a local garage to fix it, there's several people in the chain there to come into contact with.
I just think its very poorly worded and rather anti-cyclist.
a reasonable walking distance from home is
It's daily exercise, so if pushed I could probably walk 30-40miles in a day to get back before I was due to get my next daily allowance of riding?
Also, clearly a policy that discriminates against the disabled. How is a wheelchair user supposed to get any exercise within walking distance of their home?
I’m intrigued by the ‘walking distance’ bit. It seems to imply that walking home is less of a risk than someone driving in a car to get you. My experience of the crowds of people wandering about getting approved exercise is that there is far more chance of coming into contact with others on foot than in a car.
and rather anti-cyclist.
It isn’t though, is it. They just want to stop people heading out to places by bike that are a driving distance away from their homes, rather than walking distance away. Cyclists were involved in drafting the wording, so understand that for some people cycling 50 miles from home is completely normal (in normal times). Exercise local. That’s all they are asking people to do.
This is treating people like children. It’s funny how other countries, like Sweden, have taken a more adult approach.
JP
For every Sweden there's a Spain. Enjoy your freedom, and stop moaning about it.
More what iffery.
Be 'reasonble' - if you understand what that means.
Rule 1 always applies.
The numbers as I understand them don't support any change to the actual lockdown measures. The actual measures right now are doing the right things from what I can see.
This is more likely a sop to 'user groups' who have said <whiney voice> 'But...but...what about those ****ing cyclists, they can cover way more distance than me in an hour, it must be stopped' </whiney voice>.
The 'lockdown' as it stands is doing enough of a job. This feels more like NIMBY appeasement.
And I don't really have an interest here, yet. My perfectly adequate normal ride never goes more than 7.5 miles from my house.
Convert - maybe you need a bike ride to ease your anxiety regarding your interpretation of the new guidelines? .. exercise is not just for our physical health - it's good for our mental health too.
So stop your fretting .. the sun is out & the world is still turning. Have yourself a nice bike ride; take notice of how fresh the air is at moment (probably not apply if you in Cardiff) focus on how clear the birds sound, and relaxed everything appears to be at the moment; visualise your concern about reasonable cycling distance as something you can feel in your hand .. imagine how it would feel in the your hand - all cold and hard; then imagine placing it on a passing car .. and watch as the car disappears into the distance .. with your concern about reasonable cycling distances.
Has that bit of improvised Mindfulness helped? I hope so😉
Now If the police stop you, just say - Mooman said it's all good👌
Don't forget, the guidance is aimed at everyone. Cycling has just become very popular (especially with the weather) and 90% of the bikes I see are what you call beginners - they aren't carrying tools or puncture kits.
The guidance is ambiguous, but it's easy to ride 5 miles in a straight line aay from home (say on a disused rail track) - then suffer a mechanical, that is about a 2 hour walk without tools/tubes etc. Some folk would struggle with that.
My furthest (as the crow flies) are currently 12 miles from home as it's an out and back (old rail track linking to a canal). It's about 25 miles and under 2 hours. I can do loops within a circumference of about 5 miles from home which are hard work, hilly etc, but I'm lucky where I live with loads of bridleways and farm tracks.
Interpret 'reasonable' as you would - some folk, walking a bike back 5 miles is a hell of a long way. For more 'serious' cyclists, we'd fix it and ride back.
Also remember the guidance is about "exercise" for the general public and general health benefit. Not about what we usually do, or training, or skills building.
If they'd just set a one hour door to door time limit regardless of type of exercise, at least we wouldn't all be clogging up bandwidth trying to work round it.
take notice of how fresh the air is at moment (probably not apply if you in Cardiff)
It's the best I've ever known it! Not many buses belching out black smoke, very few lorries delivering to the centre, very few cars around, no taxi's sat at the ranks with their engines running. The air smells and tastes so much better, or rather it doesn't smell or taste of particulates just pollen and the odd spliff as you pass the occasional stoner.
I wonder if they were seeing lots of emergency calls from inexperienced people who'd ridden 10 miles then got a puncture and called emergency services, taxis or other people from outside their household? It's plausible that the guidelines were to try and address this.
This is treating people like children. It’s funny how other countries, like Sweden, have taken a more adult approach.
I wonder how that would pan out in the UK?
Just noticed this bit on the WG website:
Does my entire bike ride have to be in the local area?
No. We recognise there are certain forms of exercise, which, though you start locally, may temporarily take you further afield. For example, a strong cyclist may get their exercise through bike rides of 40 miles or more.Exercise as a form of “active” travel in this way (a long cycle ride, run or walk) is now allowed, but the exercise must start and finish from home.
This means we can go on long rides. Just did my nice 90km route via Usk, it was lovely.
Excellent, means I can get out into the Beacons via the Taff Trail. Will take me all day but worth it just to see some green hills!
I'm pretty sure the Taff Trail is supposed to be closed once it hits the Beacons. Very few footpaths/bridleways in the Beacons are open. BBNP seem to be very concerned about the hordes of people spreading out over a wide area, so instead are ensuring everyone stays within a much smaller area.
EDIT - just checked the BBNP website to see if there were any updates, they've added a useful map https://www.beacons-npa.gov.uk/coronavirus-covid-19/
Looking at it the Forestry around Pontsticill and Talybont reservoirs are open, just the open hill that's closed.
I live on the edge of the Black Mountains, just over the border in Herefordshire, I can see the hills from home, but can't ride there. Fortunately, as I'm in England I can jump in the van and drive to FoD to meet 5 mates and go for a ride. I'm sure it all makes sense to someone!? It's based on the science right?
Surely the last ridge in the Black Mountains is in England? Can’t you ride up that one?
Hatterrall ridge has closure signs at the bottom end near Pandy as that's all in Wales (and where the bridleway starts - there are ways up that avoid this but they are on footpaths), the path is listed on the list of closures though technically if I keep to the right had side of the path I'm still in England up on the ridge, maybe. Really I guess what I'm getting at is that the varying rules are a bit daft on the border, where I'm working, exercising or essential shopping both in Wales and England - as do a lot of people round here.
I’m sure it all makes sense to someone!? It’s based on the science right?
No it's based on politics. Johnson isn't in charge of lockdown in Wales.
I'm guessing that the Beacons is restricted based on the fact most of it is a 'beauty spot' likely to draw in lots of people.
It is daft. Amazing how landowners always want to shut the oiks out whenever they get a chance.
I don’t know what it’s based on. By the end of next week those of us who live in England will be able to drive to the Alps and enjoy chairlifted trails to our hearts content but not stray over the boarder into wales or Scotland. France announced this morning that free travel will return from 15th June to all eu,schengen and UK citizens in line with the rest of Europe. The only hurdle left is Boris’s pointless quarantine rule
I’m sure it all makes sense to someone!? It’s based on the science right?
It's only really a theory, but I'm pretty certain there's more than a grain of truth in it.
Fundamentally it's about public health, and rules that suit the areas they govern not rules that suit other places just because it would seem nice to be singing from the same hymn sheet.
BUT there's a whole lot of Political stuff going on too. The Welsh Gov. is run by Labour, the Scottish Gov. run by the SNP so there's a great political desire to do different things to the Tories in England, they'll try to read the room a bit more and, for want of a better word, pander to it - a lot of people still think we should be in lock-down, going as far as the Spanish rules about only leaving your house if you absolutely have to.
From what I'm seeing in Wales we're failing the law of unintended consequences. Cardiff Council has largely closed car parks for parks, woodland walks etc. 4 weeks ago, that probably made sense, now that public feeling is shifting we've got a situation when all these places are still be visited, there's just a lot of dicks who can't bare to park a mile away and walk in, so they're clogging up the roads, parking on verges etc. Yes, they're being dicks, but the closure of the car park is no longer a deterrent and given a genuine confusion in Wales between UK rules, which by default have become English rules and Welsh rules, most people assume you're allowed to drive up to 5 miles for exercise they'd be better off open.
Caerphilly on the other hand, has, pretty quietly as it goes, ordered all barriers at car parks to be opened, although oddly they seem to have taken the time to cover any Pay and Display machines so they can say they're closed. I'm told if you go to Cwmcarn at the weekend it's pretty busy, the riding trails are closed, the walking trails are open, or at least seem to be, but there's no shortage of riders about.
Worse, still, I probably shouldn't admit this, but I know someone who rode Cwmcarn at the weekend, it was pretty busy I hear, they rode Twrch, there's a 'barrier' of sorts in the car park that's been placed neatly to one side. When they were about 2/3rd the way around they met another sign saying the trail was closed, but in for a penny... they carried on, only to find that section was closed for maintenance, safe to pass, but they ended up riding over trails that might, or might not have been ready to be ridden. I know they well enough to know they'd never do that normally.
Speaking of the law of unintended consequences, the NRW / MTB Rangers have decided that trail centres should remain closed, there's some debate about whether the Covid rules say if they can or should be open, but anyway they've decided to keep them closed, partly because Mountain Rescue has asked them to, citing that it's a High Risk activity (statistically it's not) and that the NHS is under huge strain (it's not, the NHS in Wales has never been quieter, most hospitals have dozens if not hundreds of free beds, A&E admissions are down 50% or more). The problem of course is that, you only have to look at Strava, FB groups, here, Insta etc - Mountain Bikers are by and large, either riding around their local areas through swarms of other people, or heading off to the woods where they're riding shady un graded homebrew trails, miles from anywhere, without pre-determined evacuation plans, without fire road access etc etc and they're being joined by increasing numbers of 'Covid riders' on shiny new BSOs or MTBs found in the back of the shed that haven't seen the light of day in decades.
By the end of next week those of us who live in England will be able to drive to the Alps and enjoy chairlifted trails to our hearts content but not stray over the boarder into wales or Scotland
This is because the Tories *want* to be popular, let everyone have fun (and get back to work) and convince people they've defeated the crisis; even though the scientists are telling them that it's not safe yet. The WG on the other hand are listening to the scientists and telling people that it's not yet safe. And as P-Jay says they want to be seen to be doing something different to England and the Tories.
In Scotland the situation is better so they would seem to be justified in opening up a bit more. But England IS NOT ready to open up, despite what Johnson says.
SE Wales is one of the hardest hit areas (if not THE hardest hit) per head - that and the NE of Wales which is adjacent to NW England means that most of our population is in a hard hit area. Regional lockdowns have been mooted in England in the event of local second waves - well this is a regional lockdown.
The cycling comment I referred to reflects the reality of actual cycling as was discussed at length - it's a very low risk if you are on your own because you don't come into contact with anyone.
Re car parks, the one at the Whips/Llwyn Celyn has a 'welcome back' sign, not sure if it was from NRW or Cardiff Council.
there’s a whole lot of Political stuff going on too. The Welsh Gov. is run by Labour, the Scottish Gov. run by the SNP so there’s a great political desire to do different things to the Tories in England, they’ll try to read the room a bit more and, for want of a better word, pander to it
Honestly. The absolute state of this.
This is because the Tories *want* to be popular, let everyone have fun (and get back to work) and convince people they’ve defeated the crisis; even though the scientists are telling them that it’s not safe yet.
Is that why the rest of the schengen area is opening up? To make Boris look good? Are they really all ignoring the science? Boris is the only reason you can’t go ride in the alps this weekend whilst the rest of Europe can.
Is that why the rest of the schengen area is opening up? To make Boris look good?
Total generalisation, but depending on your point of view, the Virus either reached mainland Europe before the UK or they reacted to it quicker - either way, they went into Lock-down sooner, controlled it quicker and as a result have emerged quicker than the UK has.
there’s a whole lot of Political stuff going on too. The Welsh Gov. is run by Labour, the Scottish Gov. run by the SNP so there’s a great political desire to do different things to the Tories in England, they’ll try to read the room a bit more and, for want of a better word, pander to it
Honestly. The absolute state of this.
I was a bit Ranty this morning, so pander was probably a poor choice of words, but IMO there are a number of decisions being made in Wales for Political reasons as much as Health reasons, there's a bit of grandstanding going on.
I don’t know what it’s based on. By the end of next week those of us who live in England will be able to drive to the Alps and enjoy chairlifted trails to our hearts content but not stray over the boarder into wales or Scotland.
This is because the Tories *want* to be popular, let everyone have fun (and get back to work) and convince people they’ve defeated the crisis; even though the scientists are telling them that it’s not safe yet.
Despite my comment a few posts above I'm with the Welsh Assembly on this one. People may be going to the local areas and finding the car parks closed but if they were open there would be a lot more people there and the risk of infections jumping up again is high. The fabled R number is still too high for comfort in lots of Welsh areas and in English ones too but Boris want's to get the economy going again so bad he's willing to risk a second wave in doing so. I hope that we find that Wales has been too cautious when we get to the other side of all of this and can analyse it correctly but I'd much rather that than being allowed to ride where I want, see my parents and then have to go back into a more damaging lockdown due to a second wave hitting us and dragging us into the Flu season.
The UK was late to react initially and we are now having to pay the price of living with restrictions while the European mainland starts it's journey back to a new normal.
Boris want’s to get the economy going again so bad he’s willing to risk a second wave in doing so
I don't think it's as simple as the quicker we open the economy the better for the economy.
They've got the Bloke than runs Timpsons on the board assigned to handling reopening of the Economy, I don't know his Political leanings but I suppose it's not hard to guess given he's been invited.
It sounds like a terrible job.
This is from memory so forgive me if I've got the details a bit off, he basically said that it's not really critical where we are now. The damage done to the economy is already done and as it stands we *should* make a reasonably quick recovery, there's enough stimulus to save the tourism industry until next summer.
September is the absolute key to all of this. If in September we're where we're at now, the economic fall out will be bad, options to the Gov. and BOE become scarce and more dramatic, but survivable. They want to avoid this as much as possible, but not any any cost.
The worse case scenario is a large 2nd wave, back into the red zone, reopening the field hospitals, another long lock-down which will be less effective in Winter Months etc, this is what they will try to avoid at any cost and that's coming from a Guy who've been tasked with only looking at the economic aspects of it, not the Human cost.
Is that why the rest of the schengen area is opening up? To make Boris look good? Are they really all ignoring the science? Boris is the only reason you can’t go ride in the alps this weekend whilst the rest of Europe can.
Well yes but not for the reason you seem to be suggesting.
Most countries in the Schengen area have far fewer cases than we do. So they can be allowed do more stuff with lower risk. We've still got loads of cases, so we have to keep restrictions. If you were the EU would you let people from an infected country come over?
It's Boris's fault for not getting control of the situation. Not because he's just imposing arbitrary rules. He'd love nothing more than to open everything up tomorrow.
From here the rate in Wales is far higher than in the other nations. Makes sense for us to have tighter restrictions. Not odd at all.
From here the rate in Wales is far higher than in the other nations. Makes sense for us to have tighter restrictions. Not odd at all.
I've been looking at those myself...
I can't help but think that we were just been better at testing in the early stages.
If I've got my maths right our total deaths represent 0.04% of our Population, England's are 0.05%. Our daily Death rate is broadly the same % of Population as England's and our new infection rate is about half the UK Average as a % of population. Even if it's a statistical anomaly we'll be having our first day without a single recorded COVID death within days, probably this weekend.
Infection rates are the great unknown, because it's entirely down to how much you're willing or able to test, because 80%+ of people who have it, might never know.
I can’t help but think that we were just been better at testing in the early stages.
Testing didn't go as planned because the Welsh Government deal with Roche fell through,this was for 5,000 daily test.Boris hijacked the deal, and took the tests for his own needs.
From here the rate in Wales is far higher than in the other nations. Makes sense for us to have tighter restrictions. Not odd at all.
As I just posted on another thread, ABMU health board with a catchment of 400,000 around Swansea has had no deaths for the last couple of weeks, less than a handful of confirmed cases last week and only 6 Covid patients in one of the hospitals.
You think we should continue strict lockdown on the basis that we might bump into the 1 in a hundred thousand people who has the virus?
You think we should continue strict lockdown on the basis that we might bump into the 1 in a hundred thousand people who has the virus?
Positive tests are only an indicator of prevalence in the community - for every test, it's estimated that there are many more out there who have the virus and have minor or no symptoms. Boris himself said that at the moment, across England, approximately 1 in 1000 currently have the virus. In South Wales, it's likely to be higher than that, because your case rate has been significantly higher.
One in 1,000 doesn't sound horrific, but if the 20-30 people with a live case in a particular town are given free rein to mingle with others, then the chances of onward spread increase too.
One in 1,000 doesn’t sound horrific, but if the 20-30 people with a live case in a particular town are given free rein to mingle with others, then the chances of onward spread increase
Leading to more positive cases, but there aren't? All local health board areas in Wales are showing a decline in cases.