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Rode into work this morning on quiet tree lined cycle routes (NCN6) which make up approx 80% on my 17 mile commute. A section has been closed (Outwood trial near Prestwich meaning the last few weeks have been spent using the (lethal) road through Whitefield). They've tarmacced the outwood trail which although not very good for MTBs was fantastic on my kaffenback this morning, swooping through the trees without worrying what the big diesel engine behind you is doing!
So, a big well done to Sustrans!
It's open again? Good oh! It desperately needed something doing to it, it was ridiculously muddy. Must ride up that way again soon.
Nice. [i]Proper[/i] Sustrans NCN routes are fantastic aren't they.
Can I humbly suggest you show your appreciation by either [url= http://www.sustrans.org.uk/support-us/donate-now ]becoming a Sustrans supporter[/url] or even better [url= http://www.sustrans.org.uk/volunteer ]by volunteering as a Ranger[/url] for your local section of the NCN?
Then you can give some love back and help others benefit.
😀
Can I humbly suggest you show your appreciation by either becoming a Sustrans supporter or even better by volunteering as a Ranger for your local section of the NCN?
Too late, I've been a Ranger for over ten years - in different places. 😀
They've tarmacced the outwood trail which although not very good for MTBs
An understatement. 🙁
Something needed doing, but it could have been done with a bit more sympathy for the surroundings.
I look forward to some of the Strava times that will be set on it. 😉
Yep it was a mub fest even after a few weeks of dry weather! Don't hink it is officially open but the barriers have been moved so went through anyway. The official date to reopen was 24th May I think.
Graham, I did volunteer for a while but with family commitments I can only do the really local stuff.
Harry, it'll be an inch deep in leaves, horse crap and dog eggs soon! Plenty to avoid to keep you occupied 😆
Graham, I did volunteer for a while but with family commitments I can only do the really local stuff.
No worries - I'm pretty much in the same boat. Fortunately the path I'm a Ranger on is my commute to work so I can keep an eye on it fairly easily even if I can't make other events too often.
As a ranger,what do you actually do,I've had a(quick)look on their website,but can't seem to find out. I think I might like to do this,depending on times,locations etc.
It strikes me as a bit of a missed opportunity where they had to spend a lump of cash before the end of the financial year. A group of us rode bits of it on Monday and it is a real shame that no thought other than “flatten and cover it” was used. Does it see enough commuter traffic to warrant a 10ft wide tarmac runway, or could they have kept it to 5ft and just improved the drainage on the other side of the tarmac away from the horsey bit?
Whatever, it is done now and it is better than doing battle with the traffic in Whitefield.
I just hope that they done carry on the Autobahn style “improvements” through Waterdale.
On re-reading that I sound like a right moaning sod… but somebody has spent a great deal of money, time and effort getting the infrastructure in Waterdale, Drinkwater, Philips and Hurst Woods sorted over the last few years and the Outwood Trail bit that links it all together is clumsy.
As a ranger,what do you actually do
Depends how much time you have and how involved you want to get, but the basic Volunteer Ranger commitment is:
[b]Summary of tasks[/b]
As a ranger you will be expected to carry out agreed tasks from your local volunteer group plan. Some tasks can be organised by the whole group. Your tasks include:check for missing or broken signs and replace
follow the signing guidance
carry out general tidy ups and clear back
encroaching vegetation
report any major issues to your Volunteer Coordinator
attend group workdays and signing rides
look after any artwork or mileposts on your route.[b]Skills required [/b]
self motivated to carry out tasks independently once directed
work well within a team
live close to or travel regularly along your allocated section of route.
commitment to sustainable travel[b]Time commitment[/b]
At a minimum to check your section of route once a month and report this to your Group Coordinator. Communication is essential to your role, so you must take the time to attend group meetings and activities to keep up-to-date with local developments and your group plan.
That's about all I manage, but others also get involved in training, active travel plans, leading rides, etc
My two cents:
It's a bag of shite.
Sorry. Too many straight lines and tree loss for me.
Turns out not everyone likes to commute to work or go to the shops via winding muddy singletrack. 😀
I don't know the area, but from the photos it doesn't look like a prime mountain bike track has been lost.
Turns out not everyone likes to commute to work or go to the shops via winding muddy singletrack
True. But, to make up a number, 99% of the users don't commute on it as it links the prime mountain bike tracks in Philips/Waterdale with the bits in Hurst and the canal network at the other end. They have spent a ton of cash building something that the majority of users don't want or need. A commuter route was needed, but they could have left some of the trails that weaved through the trees in rather than driving a bull dozer though the lot of it.
Walkers won't like it either as the two options are to walk in all the horse shit or risk it on the superfast and dead straight bike trail.
How much better would it have been if they had left 4ft at the edge just gravelled and left a few bumps and jumps?
10/10 for the idea. 2/10 for the implementation.
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Well (and again I don't know the area of the trail in question) the bottom trail looks better to me.
Okay it [i]is[/i] a bit stark at the moment, because they've obviously had to chop back the plants and undergrowth a bit to lay the surface, but that'll soon fill in.
But, to make up a number, 99% of the users don't commute on it
But surely that may change now that it is surfaced? I wouldn't commute on a trail that looked like the top photo either. Especially if, like the OP, it was a substantial part of a 17 mile commute.
Walkers won't like it either as the two options are to walk in all the horse shit or risk it on the superfast and dead straight bike trail.How much better would it have been if they had left 4ft at the edge just gravelled and left a few bumps and jumps?
You think the walkers would have liked it better if the trail was half the width and had people leaping about on mountain bikes right next to it??
if it's a new trail centre: it looks a bit dull...
if it's a sustrans route: it looks chuffing ace!
I recall you being unhappy with the results harry, TBH I wasn't sure what the problem was, it wasn't a "fun" trail before just a wide muddy mess. From the pics I see what you mean about it could have been done better, smaller tarmac track and something a bit more interesting to the side. Will ride it on the way home tonight (have been sticking to the other side of the river lately), see what I think.
As a commuter route it is superb. But it is a commuter route that links 3 off road areas so a little bit of joined up thinking could have been used making it much better.
Whatever, it is done and you can now get from Radcliffe ASDA to a footbridge in the middle on nowhere without getting dirty. 😉
Not sure I'd want [i]much[/i] narrower than that for a Sustrans route.
Got to have room to safely pass someone pushing a baby buggy, riding with their kids or towing a child trailer.
Big fan of Sustrans here, happily paying the monthly stipend 🙂
As well as benefitting cycle commuters, it looks much better for disabled access too.
t is a commuter route that links 3 off road areas so a little bit of joined up thinking could have been used making it much better.
Perhaps there are more developments to come? Have you spoken to your local Sustrans reps or bike campaigner folk?
Am I missing something here?
Should this not read Well Done Bury Council? (or not depending on your point of view)
No mention of Sustrans in the press release.
If you do like it maybe you want a job in Local Government rather than as a Sustrans Ranger.
It would be great for disabled access and pushchairs apart from it being in the middle of nowhere and terminating at a singlefile footbridge complete with all of the barriers, on the top of this viaduct, before dropping down the side of it into a trail centre.
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There is nothing at one end of it for a couple of miles. No shops, no houses, no parking. Nothing.
Apart from the new MTB trail centre that somebody has just spent upwards of £250k on.
Right tent. Wrong desert.
I agree with GrahamS. That looks good. The one near me changes surface from loose gravel to concrete to 'plain' metal cattlegrids to wooden bridges back to loose gravel, normally during the bends (that have been put in to keep the route 'interesting'?).
Hitting a patch of deep gravel halfway round a corner while on 25mm slicks is definitely interesting, not sure it's a good thing though!
Edit: I obviously don't know the local context...
The problem i have with this type of 'upgrade' is the abrupt edge, i appreciate the need to keep some height to support drainage but that just leaves a significant drop so any cyclists on it will be wary of straying near the edge, pushing them towards other users (walkers?).
Have you spoken to your local Sustrans reps or bike campaigner folk?
No. But when they did the trail centres they consulted the local riders (including me). I suspect this has been done by the highways dept with a grant from somewhere and that the parks dept didn't have any input.
I'm ranting now so I'll leave it. What they have done has sorted the mud and the drainage but blown all the character. With a bit of thought and maybe a bit less tarmac it could have been better.
I'd love to be able to ride a route like that to work.
Very jealous
Sorry, but that's completely over the top.
If riding from Radcliffe, it was always the left hand side of the trail that was muddy - the right hand side was actually quite fun, mostly hardpacked dirt that stayed pretty dry had a couple of interesting bits through narrow older gates and a little bit of rooty, narrow trail. It was lovely.
They could have easily 'improved' the muddy bit and left the bit used by cyclists and runners alone.
The lower track past the garden centre already offered a cleaner, dryer alternative route, which could have been nicely integrated into the network without too much trouble.
Hell of a shame, tbh.
I just hope that they done carry on the Autobahn style “improvements” through Waterdale.
Hmmm, 'Well, we've built you a bike trail, so what are you complaining about?'
The trail that goes past the top of the berms next?
You can see why Local Authorities get confused and frustrated by us lot:
Cyclists complain about muddy, rough, unsuitable route.
Authority improves route to practically B-road standard.
Other cyclists complain that they liked it muddy and rough.
😀
Haha! 🙂
Well, it's not that simple, is it?
There is a perfectly good alternative route, running parallel to the one above that would have been much more suitable (it's already tarmac, just needed refreshing) and could have been linked into the network.
Not all the route was a muddy mess.
Yes, something needed doing, but not this.
I've said this before in my last post, but it obviously wasn't read, so I'll leave it there.
There is a perfectly good alternative route, running parallel to the one above that would have been much more suitable (it's already tarmac, just needed refreshing) and could have been linked into the network.
But who owns the land on that alternative route? And the land between that route and the existing NCN6?
And who will pay for the re-signing and re-mapping?
There is often more to consider than just "lets use that path there".
And if the other route was a perfectly good alternative and this one goes nowhere then are the council lying when they say [i]"Feedback from cyclists shows that the route (NCN6) is popular for commuting"[/i]?
You can see why Local Authorities get confused and frustrated by us lot:
That is the weird thing. When the new (and excellent) trails were planned in Philips some of us were invited in by the council to discuss it and review the tenders that had been submitted. We were later asked to go for a sneaky ride before it was open to pass on our thoughts on grading, and finally they asked us to organise the opening ceremony which I know a couple of hundred people off here attended. The people behind the trails are a great bunch who communicated with the users and have built something that is very good and very popular.
I bet this was done by another department whose brief was. 1) Make it dry. 2) Make it maintenance free.
3) Make it fun. Wasn’t considered.
Looks good to me, if I was commuting on that route I'd be much happier with the new improvements.
But who owns the land on that alternative route?
United Utilities own the other road. Which is probably why it wasn't used.
Rusty, there are guideline that have to be followed about track widths etc. so just doing half the track might not have been possible, also its quite conceivable that they thought leaving a dirt track alongside would serve no purpose.
United Utilities own the other road. Which is probably why it wasn't used.
Fair enough.
there are guideline that have to be followed about track widths
I wonder how the width compares with that of the machine that made it.
Cyclists complain about muddy, rough, unsuitable route.Authority improves route to practically B-road standard.
Other cyclists complain that they liked it muddy and rough.
Exactly!
If it encourages more people to commute by bike then it's done it's job. The average Joe wanting to do his/her bit for the planet by cycling to work and back will welcome the changes. The Mon-Fri cyclist doesn't want to get dirty or defy death on their daily commute, they want a safe, clean and easy journey.
Although it doesn't look appealing to us weekend warriors there are other places we can get muddy. Encouraging people to use the network has got to be the ultimate goal here. I'd rather see more 10ft wide tarmaced paths than 50ft wide dual carriage ways.
More bums on bikes can only be a good thing.
Speaking of my own experience, choosing to cycle rather than take the car or bus helped me to develope more of an awareness of the environment and take more interest in environmental issues. It also encouraged me to take better care of my health and eat better. Recycling, energy saving, brown rice eating etc etc.
Also
More cyclists means more bikes, more bike means more bike problems which leads to people googling about said bike problems and being directed here. Countless masses will tap into the knowledge of the stw hive mind and the budding Sheldon's among us can basque in their mighty bike knowledge.
another point entirely but certainly something that looks like an issue in this case! I first heard about the width issue as there was an article on road.cc about a canal path being refused a grant due to being too narrow to meet sustrans requirements.I wonder how the width compares with that of the machine that made it.
was having a little think about this since I posted and you are right there. It's a lovely bit of commuting matériel for getting somewhere quickly and as effortlessly as possible on any kind of bike including road bike, unfortunately it then dumps you into a park with only gravel tracks or mtb singletrack leading anywhere else so your roadie has to pull a u turn. Also wondering is that tarmac going to be a horrible mess in 1 or 2 years*? and what about snow/ice/frost in winter? PITA on tarmac, less so on gravel IME. Would a gravel track as per the rest of drinkwater not have been a better alternative? Less trouble with ice and less likely to break up maybe*?Whatever, it is done and you can now get from Radcliffe ASDA to a footbridge in the middle on nowhere without getting dirty.
* i know bugger all about this stuff
As a ranger,what do you actually do,I've had a(quick)look on their website,but can't seem to find out. I think I might like to do this,depending on times,locations etc.
What- and however much you can or want to do. I signed up to do litter picking and now organise work sessions to do that and improve / maintain the paths where councils fail. eg [url= http://www.innertubemap.com/2013/05/sustrans-volunteers-get-stuck-in-to-improve-paths/ ]our last session[/url].